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Logging DNFs as Found


Seganku
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Why would someone log a cache as found but say on the log page they couldn't find it and confirm that the owner had given them the ok to log their dnf as a find??

 

It seems a bit strange to me - kind of makes logging finds pointless if you're going to log ones that you don't find. I know everyone plays the game to their own rules but I just can't get my head round this :blink:

 

I'm more puzzled by it than bothered by it. If smiley faces mean so much to people let them get on with it. To me the main object of the game is about actually finding the cache (the great places that caching can take you to is a bonus).

 

Would you give someone permission to log dnfs as a found?

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Why would someone log a cache as found but say on the log page they couldn't find it and confirm that the owner had given them the ok to log their dnf as a find??

 

It seems a bit strange to me - kind of makes logging finds pointless if you're going to log ones that you don't find. I know everyone plays the game to their own rules but I just can't get my head round this :blink:

 

I'm more puzzled by it than bothered by it. If smiley faces mean so much to people let them get on with it. To me the main object of the game is about actually finding the cache (the great places that caching can take you to is a bonus).

 

Would you give someone permission to log dnfs as a found?

 

Here's a scenario. Someone went to a certain amount of trouble, got to the correct GZ, looked in the correct place, couldn't find the cache, emailed me, I checked it out, cache is muggled.

 

Or, cache had been taken away (by me or a cacher) for a while to log it or do maintenance.

 

Then I would feel, they did all the right things, it wasn't their fault the cache wasn't there to be found, yes, go ahead and log it as a find.

 

On the other side of this - with the above scenarios, sometimes I'd ask the cache owner if it would be OK to log it, especially if A) I've been to a quite some trouble over this one and B) it's unlikely I'll be in that area again for a long while; more often I don't.

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Lots of people just hit the "found it" no matter what they should be logging.

 

I've seen CO's posting "found it" when they should have logged "owner maintenance".

 

It's like a lot of people don't see that there are other log options in the drop-down menu.

 

And lots of people manage to post "found it" on a cache more than once.

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I would never post a 'found it' log, if I hadn't actually found the cache and signed the book, to me, the satisfaction of the game is 'finding' the cache, yes the walks and intresting locations are a bonus but at the end of the day, you're out geocaching to find caches. Under very certain circumstances would I email an owner to ask if I could log it as found if I hadn't actually signed a log, for example ' going to Gz, finding a box/lid, some paper and a green army man scattered in a woods' which blatently implies someone/thing had ruined it.

 

I woud take a picture of what I had found, take a picture of the location and send the CO a polite email asking If I could still log it as a 'found' not just make the effort to go to GZ, look for 30 seconds, see it's not obvious, then email CO saying "well i did look but i couldn't see it"

 

Yes everyone plays their own game while geocaching, but as a CO myself, a cacher better have a very good excuse as to logging my cache as found if they hadn't actually physcially found it.

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Why would someone log a cache as found but say on the log page they couldn't find it and confirm that the owner had given them the ok to log their dnf as a find??

 

It seems a bit strange to me - kind of makes logging finds pointless if you're going to log ones that you don't find. I know everyone plays the game to their own rules but I just can't get my head round this :blink:

 

I'm more puzzled by it than bothered by it. If smiley faces mean so much to people let them get on with it. To me the main object of the game is about actually finding the cache (the great places that caching can take you to is a bonus).

 

Would you give someone permission to log dnfs as a found?

 

As others have said, if I was there and checked in the right location but the cache wasn't there then it's an acknowledgement that I would have found the cache had it not been muggled.

 

Sometimes if I'm likely to head back to the area I might leave it as a DNF and return to sign the log, otherwise I'm quite happy to claim a find if the owner is OK with it.

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I recently found this one:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LUID=8d5d6863-df5e-4e4a-96a7-699506c0a36b

 

I suppose I didn't exactly find the cache in its original location but I found some bits of the cache (which caused me considerably more trouble than finding than a normal cache). I logged it as a find, although I wouldn't have had I not found proof that I had discovered what was left of the cache.

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This sort of thing annoys me!

 

Logging as a find but we only found the magnet attached, hope that is ok. There is no sign of the container or log book sadly. TFTC

 

Found a small nano magnetic on the top/back of bench at ground zero. Logging as a find, I hope this is acceptable.

Thank for the cache.

 

Yet neither 'finder' thought to put a Needs Maintenance on the cache!

 

:mad: :mad:

 

Mark

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As you have seen, views vary on this topic. At one end of the spectrum is the view that the log must always be signed to claim a find. At the other end is the view that as long as the finder and owner are both happy with the log, do what you like.

 

I tend towards the "liberal" end of the spectrum. It is a game for fun, so use which log you feel best describes your experience. For me personally, I tend to log a find (with owner permission) where I find the cache but can't sign the log. Examples are:

- Did not have a pen. (But did have a camera, and took a photo of the logbook).

- Was attacked by wasps when trying to remove the cache, and ran away to lick my wounds.

This doesn't happen often (4 or 5 out of my 1900 finds).

 

I'm less personally comfortable with claiming a find in cases where the cache was missing, but I found the location. In these cases, I didn't actually find it. So I log these as DNFs. But I do understand the logic behind "I found the location and would have found the cache if it was there". So if one of my caches goes missing, and someone who looked in the right place wants to change their DNF to a find once I have confirmed the cache is indeed missing, I'm OK with that. And as Dr. Solly said.. perhaps if there was a case where I went to a lot of effort to find a cache in a place I'm unlikely never to return to.... and the owner confirms the cache was missing and I was looking in exactly the right place... I might want to claim it as a find.

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after taking the time to book a charter and gather 10 people to fill it, and making the 30km trip one way to the cache location but realizing that the container was gone you bet we all logged a find, not only we had the CO's blessing but he was actually grateful that we replaced the cache, which seems to be what the cachers after us found

 

Get To The Point!

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after taking the time to book a charter and gather 10 people to fill it, and making the 30km trip one way to the cache location but realizing that the container was gone you bet we all logged a find, not only we had the CO's blessing but he was actually grateful that we replaced the cache, which seems to be what the cachers after us found

 

Get To The Point!

 

Good example - I would do the same.

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after taking the time to book a charter and gather 10 people to fill it, and making the 30km trip one way to the cache location but realizing that the container was gone you bet we all logged a find, not only we had the CO's blessing but he was actually grateful that we replaced the cache, which seems to be what the cachers after us found

 

Get To The Point!

I have registered a DNF after a 3 day voyage by boat when the seas at the destination were too rough and gale force winds were forecast. Personally I would not consider distance, duration or expense to be sufficient justification for logging as a find something that actually I hadn't found. There may be other reasons, but not those.

 

But I've seen very much more bizarre things than logging that one as a find. Like a bunch of folks standing on a bridge watching one brave soul climb down to a 5 star terrain cache, and for all of them to log it as a find!

 

It's not a competition. Everyone sets their own standards.

 

Rgds, Andy

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I agree with the OP that it's very puzzling. If I don't find a cache after making a serious attempt then it's a DNF. I've also had a few kind e-mails from generous cache owners offering the "find" because a cache has disappeared before I looked for it but I really don't see the point. I still didn't find it so why would I want to record it as "found"?

 

It would be a bit like birdwatching, getting to a bird hide to hear that a very rare bird had been seen an hour earlier but has flown off since, and recording it as "spotted". Why?

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We were in Helsinki on a 'cruise-call' this summer. We walked about two miles to find the cache at the Sibelius Monument. Unfortunately the cache was gone, but it was obvious where it should have been (fixing still in place). We logged it as a find - but noted in the log what had actually happened. Others had done the same, some attaching photos of the fixing as proof. We then received an e:mail from CO, quoting guidelines that 'no sign log = no find' and requesting we amend the log to a 'note' or delete it. We felt a little miffed, but complied with the request. Over the course of the next couple of days all similar logs close to ours were either amended or deleted so at least CO was consistent and not just picking on us. Shame though...

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I've allowed a cacher to change their DNF to a Found It when they have, for example, found the camouflage but the actual box has been muggled. It's a rare occurrence though.

 

Think that's the way.

 

Can't find it, fairly sure you're in the right spot?? Log DNF, contact the CO and explain.

The CO may allow you to log it as a find.

 

Log a find 'Just because you were there' and think you're right... Not a find in my book!

 

Would I change DNF log to a Found log, if the owners said it was OK?

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Don't know. Ask me if I'm ever in that situation!

Edited by Bear and Ragged
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...Unfortunately the cache was gone, but it was obvious where it should have been ... We logged it as a find...

I know it sounds a bit mean at first sight for the cache owner to insist on applying the rules rigorously. But think about it. It's just a game, where you find a geocache. Just like any other game you might be frustrated if you fail to "win", and more so if it wasn't your fault. But why not simply accept that you were unlucky on this occasion and enjoy the fact that you were motivated to visit the monument? You won't get paid for finding the cache, and no-one will castigate you for not finding it. So just record the fact that it was a DNF. Why would logging the find be so important that it's worth bending the rules so severely?

 

I've no idea why you would pretend that you found the cache; after all, you were pretty sure that it wasn't even in place, so how could you possibly have found it? I'm not having a go at you for making this decision; after all, quite a few seem inclined to do the same: and like the OP it doesn't bother me particularly. It just seems illogical and puzzling.

 

I find it therapeutic that in such a complicated and difficult world you can enjoy locating these things, and simply making your mark on the log book entitles you to the satisfaction of success in a trivial but sometimes challenging task. To add artificial complexities such as non-found "finds" is rather counter-productive.

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after taking the time to book a charter and gather 10 people to fill it, and making the 30km trip one way to the cache location but realizing that the container was gone you bet we all logged a find, not only we had the CO's blessing but he was actually grateful that we replaced the cache, which seems to be what the cachers after us found

 

Get To The Point!

 

So what you are saying is that you did not find the cache right?

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Some time ago, I found the location where a difficult puzzle cache was supposed to be, but couldn't find the ammo box. It was a really obvious hole underneath a rock - but the cache was missing. I e-mailed the owner, with a photo of the rock and hole (and described it), simply to ask if I was looking in the right place and was quite surprised when they e-mailed back saying I could claim the find. I didn't actually take them up on the offer, as it did feel quite wrong to do that, but I was able to return to GZ & sign the new log shortly after it was replaced, because it was quite local. I'm not sure I would have had quite so much integrity if I had been 150 miles away when actually faced with that offer! lol!

 

I suppose what does feel wrong is when people go ahead and claim a find, without signing the log or asking the CO if its OK to do that, like all these which were marked as found:

Our first cache in England. Thank you! I guess we found the hiding hole but seemed - as already reported in the previous logs - muggled.
Marked as found - pretty sure we found the hidey hole, but there was nothing in it, as reported by others.
Nice hide, been muggled though. Maybe next time.

This seems to be quite common on a missing and muggled cache with an absent CO. I suppose they think no-one is going to check.

 

I'd like to think if anyone posted something on one of my caches to the effect that they didn't sign the log, but claimed the find, then I'd have the balls to at least challenge it. I think I'd send them a message to ask them to explain the scenario which led to that situation, and would try (as nicely as possible) to explain that not signing the log doesn't actually count as a find, and see how it progressed from there. I'd also high-tail it to GZ to ensure it hadn't been muggled.

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I recently 'found' The Lost River Fleet <21> The Mouth of the Fleet I could see the cache but it's not possible to retrieve it, so I logged a DNF, since then some have logged it as DNF, some as Found. I don't object to people logging it as a find, but I wouldn't want to, although perhaps if I was on a trip from foreign climes I might have done.

 

We all play the game our own way ...

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No - if I didn't find the cache, I'd DNF it.

 

If I found a pile of bits I'd put a NM on it too.

 

If I could see it, but not get to it for whatever reason, I may or may not DNF it - it would depend on the circumstances. If I could see it, I didn't "not" find it - but wouldn't log it as a find.

 

And I'd rather DNF than PAF - but I'm just weird that way ;)

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I've had someone log a find when they found the cache mown to shreds and scattered on the ground. Fine by me although I doubt they managed to sign the log book :laughing:

 

I had someone who saw my cache in a tree but logged it as found saying they weren't prepared to climb the tree to sign the log. I deleted that log and explained why - probably the only time I have deleted a log for that reason, ordinarily I'm not bothered. I didn't want subsequent cachers thinking it OK to do the same though.

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What's peoples views on carrying spare containers of various sizes, getting to a cache, spending ages looking for it, think you're in the right place, deciding it is not there, so replacing it, with a fresh log, signing it, then assuming it was muggled and moving onto the next cache?

 

Without actually knowing for sure that the orginal cache has gone, or getting into contact with the CO?

 

I have known this to happen?

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I remember being at an event I organised (think it was the 10 year one) when a couple of cachers came up to a CO and said "oh we replaced your cache for you. We placed it at the top of the post which seemed right”.

 

CO replied “that’s very kind of you, I just gave instructions to someone else as to where the cache was supposed to be; at the bottom of that post tucked in the ivy.”

Reply by proud replacers “oh. Nevermind. You don’t mind if we mark it as a find do you?”

 

CO commented “your rules”.

 

5min later we get a phone call, “Thanks CO, found it on this attempt, not sure how I missed it the first time round. Strange thing, there’s another here too which wasn’t there earlier.”

 

Well it made me laugh.

 

Don’t get me wrong, I have replaced caches for CO in the past but only with their permission etc. I don’t mind doing maintenance for CO.

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after taking the time to book a charter and gather 10 people to fill it, and making the 30km trip one way to the cache location but realizing that the container was gone you bet we all logged a find, not only we had the CO's blessing but he was actually grateful that we replaced the cache, which seems to be what the cachers after us found

 

Get To The Point!

 

So what you are saying is that you did not find the cache right?

 

isn't that clear from my post, as well as the fact that the cache owner was aware of the possibility that it could be gone, given the location, and told us to replace it if its not there?

 

what point are you exactly trying to make?

Edited by t4e
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What's peoples views on carrying spare containers of various sizes, getting to a cache, spending ages looking for it, think you're in the right place, deciding it is not there, so replacing it, with a fresh log, signing it, then assuming it was muggled and moving onto the next cache?

 

Without actually knowing for sure that the orginal cache has gone, or getting into contact with the CO?

 

I have known this to happen?

 

Question crops up on a regular basis... One of the more recent threads link

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What's peoples views on carrying spare containers of various sizes, getting to a cache, spending ages looking for it, think you're in the right place, deciding it is not there, so replacing it, with a fresh log, signing it, then assuming it was muggled and moving onto the next cache?

 

Without actually knowing for sure that the orginal cache has gone, or getting into contact with the CO?

 

I have known this to happen?

Definitely a no-no in my view. Twice people have "replaced" my caches and logged a find, when the original cache was there all the time, in the right place - they just didn't find it! Both times it meant an extra maintenance trip by myself to remove the "replacement".

 

Rgds, Andy

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What's peoples views on carrying spare containers of various sizes, getting to a cache, spending ages looking for it, think you're in the right place, deciding it is not there, so replacing it, with a fresh log, signing it, then assuming it was muggled and moving onto the next cache?

 

Without actually knowing for sure that the orginal cache has gone, or getting into contact with the CO?

 

I have known this to happen?

Definitely a no-no in my view. Twice people have "replaced" my caches and logged a find, when the original cache was there all the time, in the right place - they just didn't find it! Both times it meant an extra maintenance trip by myself to remove the "replacement".

 

Rgds, Andy

 

Hear! Hear!

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What's peoples views on carrying spare containers of various sizes, getting to a cache, spending ages looking for it, think you're in the right place, deciding it is not there, so replacing it, with a fresh log, signing it, then assuming it was muggled and moving onto the next cache?

 

Without actually knowing for sure that the orginal cache has gone, or getting into contact with the CO?

 

I have known this to happen?

Definitely a no-no in my view. Twice people have "replaced" my caches and logged a find, when the original cache was there all the time, in the right place - they just didn't find it! Both times it meant an extra maintenance trip by myself to remove the "replacement".

 

Rgds, Andy

Did you delete their logs or show compassion :)?

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I have to admit to having spent an hour trying to get a cache, that was inside a tree, I was unable to climb up high enough (in that the tree would not take my weight) to reach down far enough inside the tree to get the cache out... the terrain rating did not take into account the tree climbing so I wasn't expecting it :-( I did on this occasion claim the find, I signed a piece of paper, put it in a baggie and dropped it on top of the container in the tree, stating in my online log, what I had done and if the cache owner wasn't happy I would delete it. No contact from the CO and the next cachers along popped my temp log into the cache - I have spoken to several cachers about this cache and they all agree that it's not set up correctly, apparently the tree was less hollow when it was set, and you could reach the cache without climbing the tree.

 

On the other side I recently had someone who 'found' one of my caches, but stated in thier online log, that they couldn't sign the log as it was too muggley, it's on a quite footpath, and to find the cache you have to actually have it in your hand as it's tucked out of sight. Mine was the only cache within about a 40 min drive of thier last cachefind that they logged. I contacted them and asked them to describe how the cache was hidden to claim the find, no response from the 'finder' so thier online log was deleted.

 

just to take this off at a slight tangent, as a fairly newbie, I do wonder how a CO would feel if I arrived at GZ and found the cache in a bad state of repair, damaged container or soaking log book - is it ok to replace to container at the site and then let the CO know what I have done?

Edited by pixeltash
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Did you delete their logs or show compassion :)?
No, I didn't delete the logs, on the basis that each person chooses for themselves what they count as a find, no matter how bizarre it may seem to me.

 

But in this case I'm not sure that was the right course - probably I should have deleted them. Much too late now [:)].

 

Rgds, Andy

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I have to admit to having spent an hour trying to get a cache, that was inside a tree, I was unable to climb up high enough to reach down inside the tree to get the cache out... the terrain rating did not take into account the tree climbing so I wasn't expecting it :-( I did on this occasion claim the find, I signed a piece of paper, put it in a baggie and dropped it on top of the container in the tree, stating in my online log, what I had done and if the cache owner wasn't happy I would delete it. No contact from the CO and the next cachers along popped my temp log into the cache - I have spoken to several cachers about this cache and they all agree that it's not set up correctly, apparently the tree was less hollow when it was set, and you could reach the cache without climbing the tree.

 

On the other side I recently had someone who 'found' one of my caches, but stated in thier online log, that they couldn't sign the log as it was too muggley, it's on a quite footpath, and to find the cache you have to actually have it in your hand as it's tucked out of sight. Mine was the only cache within about a 40 min drive of thier last cachefind that they logged. I contacted them and asked them to describe how the cache was hidden to claim the find, no response from the 'finder' so thier online log was deleted.

 

just to take this off at a slight tangent, as a fairly newbie, I do wonder how a CO would feel if I arrived at GZ and found the cache in a bad state of repair, damaged container or soaking log book - is it ok to replace to container at the site and then let the CO know what I have done?

This is a tricky one because in my view it depends on the circumstances. If you want a general answer I would say do it only with the prior agreement of the cache owner. If you know the cache owner it might be a different matter. If the cache owner is no longer interested in caching then my view is you should not replace anything but mark the cache as needing to be archived.

 

Regarding the logging as a find a cache I could not reach, that would fall way outside my own personal set of rules. Nor would I think of logging as a find a cache found by someone in the group I was caching with unless I was totally certain I could reach it - e.g. if it was at the base of a post beside the path I would not feel the need to pick it up myself, but if it was up a tree I would have to ensure I could reach it myself even if someone else had already done so.

 

But everyone has their own set of rules. If you are happy to log ones you can see but not reach that is your own business - lots of people do it. It's not a competition to see who can log the most finds, it's just a matter of what you are comfortable with.

 

Rgds, Andy

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On just a single occasion I claimed a find without actually signing the log. The mini-cache was in a hole in a stone wall (not a dry stone wall)...I could see the cache & even touch it with the very tip of a finger. There was not enough room to use any 'aid' to extract it. But I just couldn't get at it! It had fallen too far in. So I took a photo of it - the cache could clearly be seen in the photo. I logged the cache as a find, in addition I emailed the cache owner and informed him the cache needed attention, and attached the photo to the email.

A day or two later I had an email reply, to the effect that it should not have been claimed as a find because the log wasn't signed...and "thanks for the notification that the cache needed attention"!!

To the credit of the CO, he didn't delete my claim of a smiley.

Finally, the next time I passed the now maintained cache, I popped the cache out and signed the log. On returning home I visited the cache page and added a note to the effect that the cache was now signed, and that my debt to society was now paid.

In my opinion a whole load of fuss for no good reason.

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I've had someone log a find when they found the cache mown to shreds and scattered on the ground. Fine by me although I doubt they managed to sign the log book :laughing:

 

I had someone who saw my cache in a tree but logged it as found saying they weren't prepared to climb the tree to sign the log. I deleted that log and explained why - probably the only time I have deleted a log for that reason, ordinarily I'm not bothered. I didn't want subsequent cachers thinking it OK to do the same though.

 

Personally I think a lot of it is down to a bit of common sense. A 1/1 rated cache that's clearly visible but which has fallen to a place where you can't physically get at it is one thing - the rating makes it clear that it's an easy hide. If it's rated 3/3 and it's 50 feet up a tree I'd have said it's pretty obvious that you have to climb the tree to get the cache. So for a cache like that if I climbed the tree and realised I didn't have a pen I'd make sure there was some way I could prove I'd not only sighted the cache but also climbed up to retrieve it.

 

That said it does raise an interesting question of people caching in groups. If a caching buddy finds the cache is it fair for me to sign the log as well, and if so does it change anything if my buddy climbs a tree and throws the cache down for me to sign?

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That said it does raise an interesting question of people caching in groups. If a caching buddy finds the cache is it fair for me to sign the log as well, and if so does it change anything if my buddy climbs a tree and throws the cache down for me to sign?

 

That is an interesting question.

 

For the first part of your question: In my view, yes. When caching in a group, everyone in the group is contributing. I might look on one side of the hedge, you look on the other. If you find it, I have still contributed. I think this is generally how it works in groups; though you could have each person find it (and not say anything) until everyone has found it.

 

The second part of the question is harder. One part of me says it is just the same as the first part. Maybe you didn't climb the tree, but you solved the tricky puzzle which was needed to get the coordinates. Or you spotted the cache in the tree. So in general, yes I think this is OK.

 

However - I would feel uncomfortable claiming a find for a cache which I could not do myself. So for me personally: If I could climb that tree, but my buddy wanted to do it, I'd claim it as a find. But if the intent of the cache was a difficult climb which I could not do, I wouldn't claim it.

 

I think it is down to the finder to do what they feel comfortable with.

The cache owner may prefer that every finder climb that tree, but they can't control that. Or the owner might not care.

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That said it does raise an interesting question of people caching in groups. If a caching buddy finds the cache is it fair for me to sign the log as well, and if so does it change anything if my buddy climbs a tree and throws the cache down for me to sign?
This was a point I mentioned a few posts back. For me, I have to have reached the cache personally, which as a minimum means I need to have recovered or replaced it myself, unless it is completely obvious that I could do so - I don't feel the need to actually do the retrieve on T1 caches at base of tree, base of post, etc.,

 

Similarly, if it's a puzzle, I have to have played a significant part in the solution, where "significant" means I have to have solved more than 50% of it, else I don't log it.

 

The area where it's possible I would log one that I might not have found is where I'm caching with someone else, and they find it before me. Once it's been found, the "genie is out of the bottle", and I can't "unknow" where it is. But in the great majority of these cases I would shortly have found it myself anyway, so for practical reasons I reverse the test- I log these as finds unless I'm fairly sure I would NOT have found it by myself.

 

I know of one cacher who would consider my logging of a find in this way to be reprehensible. But I also know personally, and by reputation, many cachers who consider observing someone else finding a 5T cache justifies a found it log, and those who regularly use other people's puzzle solutions.

 

You just have to make your own call, and remember that your stats are only as good as the lowest standard you have set to log any cache.

 

Rgds, Andy

 

Edited for spelling and punctuation

Edited by Amberel
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I can't agree more with the last two posts.

 

I love caching as a group, especially now that I no longer have my mutt. Just this last weekend, three of us were on a series (Toby Lane in Bucks) where the hides were imaginative and you couldn't undo knowing where the cache was once someone else had spotted it. Team effort for all.

 

In the past I’ve traded skills/equipment with friends to find caches. Most memorable was a waterfall cache for a rock face cache. For me the bar is set the same as Amberel that I will only log if I think I could have done it. On this example however I was pleased to do both rather than just one as it was exhilarating. If I’m in a team and someone doesn’t have the ability to do one section but they feel comfortable logging their experience then so be their decision. They’ve certainly contributed to me finding the cache.

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At the end of the day it is the cache owner who has the choice to accept the find. If he/she finds the person logging has not done enough then he can delete that log if required. I went to Italy and doubt I will return but still only logged a dnf after realising a cache had been muggled. Why... Because I never found the cache only it's resting place.

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I think I agree with Amberel's take on this - personally I have to know that I have contributed significantly to the finding of the cache and could have/would have got it myself if I had been on my own.

 

It's a little trickier for me because Hawkins2 is a joint account so I suppose if one day there was one that Mr H could do but I couldn't it would technically be ok but I think I would even feel uncomfortable logging under those circumstances as it was me who originally signed up and I do all the logging online. I certainly would never log one if he found one when I wasn't there - if he started caching without me then I would have to get him to open his own account to log his own finds as then my stats wouldn't be right for me. (Not saying it is wrong to cache separately under one account, just that personally I want to be able to look at my stats and know that I contributed to finding all of them.)

 

However, I digress. In terms of the cache not being there I would not log it as found even if I was sure where it should have been. To me I have to actually find a cache. If I can't sign it for whatever reason then I will try to prove my finding it some other way although this has not yet happened to me.

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I have had permission to log a tiny remnant of the cache as a find... But I did find something of it. Personally I think the difficulty should have been raised as it was a lot harder to find what I did than the cache itself!

 

I'd allow a log in similar circumstances... Find a bit of an AWOL cache and it's a find.

 

Right... Nearly 100k caches in the UK that I haven't found yet... Off to log them as finds!

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Team caching accounts makes a lot of this rather moot, when considering logging standards. So a family has one account "Super Cacher", for example. One day only Mrs. Cacher goes out and finds a cache. Mr. Cacher is the one who posts the on-line logs but he had to be told which cache it was, that's how much he knew about it. And the kids never even knew that it had been found or logged. Another day the whole family goes out and the teenagers run ahead, find a cache, sign the log and run back. It's logged as "found" even though half the team never saw it at all. On another occasion they split up to log a big series of 100 caches. Everyone has 25 caches to log, and with judicious use of bikes and cars they easily finish the series in time for lunch.

Someone else is baffled by these superhuman feats as he struggled to walk round the series on his own in two days, but sees someone else remarking that they had the whole series sewn up before lunch! So having a few "finds" on a team account that should have been DNF is a minor discrepancy in comparison.

 

It's all allowed, so I suppose that it's up to yourself what your logging standard is. In my opinion, it does no harm to log a DNF if that's what you feel most people would agree happened.

 

A cache I DNF'd the other day I COULD have logged, according to some peoples' criteria. I found some camo tape on the floor and nearby some green wire attached to a tree (the hint mentioned a tree branch). Despite extensive searching I didn't find the container. I could have argued for logging the "find" as I had found the remains of the cache, but I never considered doing this but logged a DNF (and Needs Maintenance). I notice that someone also found the cache itself yesterday, even though they also found the remnants. I'd now have felt guilty about logging a "find" when I'd simply not found a cache that was more or less in place.

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Again, I wouldn't log a find if it had been muggled, however there has been I think 4 caches I have logged as found, but didn't sign, 3 were on a series, I lost my pen between caches, so I did have it in my hands but couldn't sign, and the other was a cache I could see, however with workmen working less than 50 yards away, I didn't retrieve, it has now been signed.

 

I'm sure some will say I shouldn't have logged as found, but I did find it, but due to things outside of my control I couldnt sign it, however I will go back and sign the 3 I havnt signed yet.

Edited by matt1988
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I suppose at the end of the day, everyone plays by their own rules. I've been in numerous situations where I have been caching with people, but haven't actually found the cache myself, i've seen it, but it wasn't me who found it. My game is, I find a cache, I log it, if I don't have a pen, i email the Cache owner with a picture of the cache location, ect and hope it's alright. As a cache owner, i haven't actually checked any of my log books to see if they fit with whats written in the 'found it' logs on the internet.. makes me quite intrigued now :P

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I suppose at the end of the day, everyone plays by their own rules. I've been in numerous situations where I have been caching with people, but haven't actually found the cache myself, i've seen it, but it wasn't me who found it. My game is, I find a cache, I log it, if I don't have a pen, i email the Cache owner with a picture of the cache location, ect and hope it's alright. As a cache owner, i haven't actually checked any of my log books to see if they fit with whats written in the 'found it' logs on the internet.. makes me quite intrigued now :P

 

I did say on the posts I didn't sign, so if the CO has a problem they could email me or delete the post. So I would only log a found if I physically have the cache in my hands. However from now on I will email the owner to make sure it's ok, I don't want to get anyone's backs up lol.

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