Dealing With a Cache Thief

[+Road Rabbit]

Within the past few days, 15-20 caches in our area have been stolen. The thief had even taken the time on several to rearrange the camo to disguise the fact that the cache had been taken. Although several hiders have been victimized, the majority of the stolen caches belonged to one local team.

 

My question is this: From time to time, I've seen discussions here about cache thieves, but has anyone come up with an effective measure for dealing with this type of crime? Most of what I've read comes under the category of "ignore them and they'll grow tired of their 'game' and go away sooner or later".

 

Any other ideas?

[+Hrethgir]

Unless you can set up around-the-clock survielence on lots of chaches, and then catch the thief in the act, there isn't much else you can do.

[CoyoteRed]

Any other ideas?

No.

 

This hobby only happens through the good graces of others. I'm actually quite surprised at the ugliness that goes on within the hobby considering it would take very little effort to destroy an area's cache population. Anyone with a modicum of a thought process of how to steal caches could easily remove caches without any serious exposure to themselves.

 

Anything short of welding caches in place, providing access to a limited few, and then being on site during the find, is pretty much a futile effort.

[+eigengott]

Most of what I've read comes under the category of "ignore them and they'll grow tired of their 'game' and go away sooner or later".

 

Any other ideas?

 

I would add: Don't give them any feedback, like through forum posts or blog entries. A cache thief likely bathes his ego in the attention he gets for his deeds.

[+cantuland]

When I suspect cache thievery, I might let the area sit there without the cache container for a while. After some time (a month or so?), I'll replace the container. Sometimes that works. Sometimes it just disappears again later on.

 

On one occassion, I had to replace a large-sized container that went missing. It was located a half-mile walk into a flood-prone area so I tethered it to a tree using steel cables coated with plastic. The bolts used to tie the ends into loops were tightened as tight as I could get them with a crescent wrench; then I slightly bent the bolt ends together so the nuts could not come off even if they somehow got loose. Despite all that, the container and the cables disappeared shortly after being posted so it isn't like the cables rusted apart. I don't want to be the supplier of large containers to a thief, so I changed the listing to a premium-members-only cache, replaced the cache with a new huge box (another 20-dollars), and moved the posted coordinates farther away from a trail. I don't like making a cache only available to premium members, but I thought the circumstances deemed it worthy of the limitations. I haven't had a problem with it since then.

 

cantuland

[+edscott]

Most of what I've read comes under the category of "ignore them and they'll grow tired of their 'game' and go away sooner or later".

 

Any other ideas?

 

I would add: Don't give them any feedback, like through forum posts or blog entries. A cache thief likely bathes his ego in the attention he gets for his deeds.

 

Exactly... Unless the theft is limited to a single cache ( Hunter that feels his "spot" is being compromised... nearby landowner that notices too much activity near his property... accidental find by neighborhood kids, etc) The serial cache thief is just some jerk looking for attention... if he doesn't get it he'll move on and find another way.

[+ras_oscar]

anybody considered setting up a deer camera nearby?

http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/...oductId=3182726

[+solo63137]

anybody considered setting up a deer camera nearby?

http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/...oductId=3182726

 

I think that would be a neat idea anyway... Not to catch a theif, but to see if it can snap a pic of the fellow Geocacher...

[+CMHN]

Yea it would be neat but if somebody is taking caches they can easily take your camera.

[+Jeep4two]

anybody considered setting up a deer camera nearby?

http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/product/...oductId=3182726

 

I think that would be a neat idea anyway... Not to catch a theif, but to see if it can snap a pic of the fellow Geocacher...

 

Exactly what I was thinking - most of us cachers are at best a little smarter than deer. My wife begs to differ in my case

[+classiccanadianblizz]

Don't want to sound like a party pooper . . but I don't think I really like the idea of there being a game camera around the hiding spot. I'm sure my picture is on PLENTY of them, however, those pictures I'm sure are deleted out asap cause I'm NOT the good lookn' Buck I use to be As for complete strangers WANTING and KEEPING photos of me and my family just seems too weird for me. So I know that for me and my family this game will be OVER if we find out that this is starting to happen (even occasionally).

[+dubkid420]

If you guys are referring to the caches that I think you are (M.I.), then I am really peeved about this as well...lol. I think I may have even seen the bastard out and about one day looking totally suspicious near one of the now missing caches. Then a few days later I was out hiking (not even caching) when I saw some real young kid jog past me with what appeared to be one of the more elaborate caches from the area. (Monkey Challenge) At the time I just assumed he was the owner performing some maintenance or something. But now I think he may just have been the thief. Weird but true. If I see him again I will surely question him...lol. Do we have any legal recourse here?...lol. Might be a dumb question, just curious.

Edited May 11, 2009 by dubkid420

[Andronicus]

As for complete strangers WANTING and KEEPING photos of me and my family just seems too weird for me. So I know that for me and my family this game will be OVER if we find out that this is starting to happen (even occasionally).

 

Well furtunatly for you, it is illigal in Canada to take the picture of someone without their permission (as per the Access to Information and Privacy Act). So the only way to legaly do this in Canada would be to have a notice in the area, and/or on the cache listing page.

 

As for insureing caches don't go missing, I saw an Ammo Box that was chained and locked to a tree. I guess this isn't fool proof, but if you used a cable style chain and a blast proof combo lock, no-one would get it off. A spitfull or vengfull cacher would have to cut the tree, or destroy the cache.

 

The other way is of course making it a preimium member only cache, or upping the difficulty. Make it a Mystery Multi cache. Only seriouse cacher attempt those ones.

[Andronicus]

Do we have any legal recourse here?...lol. Might be a dumb question, just curious.

 

Technicaly it is theaft, but as the $ value is very low (rarly greater than $20) the police are likely to do nothing.

 

The thing is, even if you cought the guy, what exactly are you going to do? If you rough him up, you are likely to end up with an assault charge. Take him to the cop shop? you will be lucky if they slap his wrists +you need good evidance for even that. Probably the only thing that could work (and may well not work) is if it was a kid to talk to his parents. And of couse, after you do whatever you do, he will probably start sealing more because now he is realy mad.

 

Sadly, the ignor option is likly the best. This may include not puting new caches up for him to steal. If he has no caches to seal for a few months, he will likely loose interest, and/or tink he has won.

[Clan Riffster]

If you guys are referring to the caches that I think you are (M.I.), then I am really peeved about this as well...lol.

Curious. I'm wondering why you would intentionally post this with your sock puppet account as opposed to your regular caching account?

Edited May 11, 2009 by Clan Riffster

[+Frank Broughton]

The thing is, even if you cought the guy, what exactly are you going to do?

 

Catch him and turn Him into a cache. That would work.

[+dubkid420]

Sock puppet account? I am not sure what that means...lol. Am I missing some new interwebs vocab here? Anyway, I just contacted a buddy of mine over at the local PD and he said that unfortunately this would not even constitute as theft. He made the point that because caches are left "out and about" in wilderness areas it would be very difficult to categorize this type of activity as theft. He said it would be much like you leaving property of any kind out in the woods somewhere. If someone were to happen upon it and take it, well they did not really steal anything. I understood his stance on the issue. I thin it is crappy that nothing can be done, but technically he is right. There are simply zero laws being broken by this person. It darn well should be against the law!

[+dubkid420]

Sock puppet account? I am not sure what that means...lol. Am I missing some new interwebs vocab here? Anyway, I just contacted a buddy of mine over at the local PD and he said that unfortunately this would not even constitute as theft. He made the point that because caches are left "out and about" in wilderness areas it would be very difficult to categorize this type of activity as theft. He said it would be much like you leaving property of any kind out in the woods somewhere. If someone were to happen upon it and take it, well they did not really steal anything. I understood his stance on the issue. I thin it is crappy that nothing can be done, but technically he is right. There are simply zero laws being broken by this person. It darn well should be against the law!

[+dubkid420]

Just looked up "sock puppet account" on wikipedia...lol. Not sure why you would think that this is a fake identity??? It is the same account I have always had on geocaching.com. Are you telling me that your birth cert. says Clan Riffster on it? Did not think so. Sorry for any confusion that may have caused you my friend...lol

[TM92]

Set up a nice juicy cache that the thief just can't resist and wait in the bushes with your shotgun. When he finds the cache and is about to steal it, cock your shotgun and tell him to put the cache down and never steal anymore. That will definitely get the theif scared for his life.

[+dubkid420]

Set up a nice juicy cache that the thief just can't resist and wait in the bushes with your shotgun. When he finds the cache and is about to steal it, cock your shotgun and tell him to put the cache down and never steal anymore. That will definitely get the theif scared for his life.

 

That's funny. But a really bad idea. You would be arrested and quite possibly get shot yourself. Just sayin'...lol.

[Clan Riffster]

Not sure why you would think that this is a fake identity??? It is the same account I have always had on geocaching.com.

Ah... Wikipedia... The font of wisdom for the Internet elite.

Around here, sock puppet means a bit more than a "fake" identity. As you've probably noticed, there are very few accounts which utilize the creator's actual identity, such as full name, date of birth, social security number, etc. Hence, it could be argued, (using Wikilogic), that everyone here is a sock puppet. For that reason, the definition has been stretched a bit. For the most part, to qualify as a sock puppet here the account needs to be created to obscure the known and recognized identity of the creator. As an example, my account name is "Clan Riffster". Most of the local caching community knows me by that name. Many of them know where I live, what I do for a living, what my phone number is, etc. I am not hiding behind anything. However, if I were to create a second account, say, "BillyBobNosePicker", and utilized this account for other purposes, without revealing anything about the relationship between the accounts, "BillyBobNosePicker" could be considered a sock puppet. If I created the second account, and let everybody know it was mine, I don't think the term would apply, at least not in the common definition.

 

In an earlier post, you mentioned that you're a cacher. You've been caching long enough to recognize a specific cache, simply by seeing someone carrying the container. Presumably your caching involves finding and/or hiding caches? Yet, a look at your profile reveals you have no finds or hides. I would be willing to bet that you have another account with your finds listed. In a tight knit group such as the Space Coast Geocaching Association, you are probably well known by that account. Yet, under the name dubkid420, you are not known. Hence, the sock puppet reference.

 

In regards to your conversation with your local PD buddy, I have to question his reasoning. Florida statute 812.014 defines theft as the intentionally taking of something, to deprive another of its use, value or benefit. The State Attorney's Office goes a little farther, (but within the same context), insisting that LEOs be able to prove the taker intended to deprive. If Bubba (someone utterly unaware of caching), was out hiking, and found a cache, carrying it home with him, the State would be unable to prove he intended to deprive anyone, treating the cache as abandoned property. However, if a cacher removed a cache that did not belong to them, the State could prove that the individual knew the box was not abandoned, and could demonstrate that it was, in fact, a game piece left in play, belonging to someone else.

 

To summarize: A cacher could be convicted of theft. A non-cacher probably could not be.

[+dubkid420]

I got ya! I really did not get the "puppet" thing. Now I dig...lol. Anyway, I assure you that I have no other account. I have been interested in this game for a very long time as I have been an avid hiker/outdoors lover my entire life. I only recently joined up on the site and to be quite honest I do not see the point in logging my finds. Seems completely silly to brag about you ability to follow a gps receiver to an exact coordinate. I love that there is a large online community dedicated to this activity, don't get me wrong there. However, I think the bragging through stats is kind of taking the fun out of things lately. I do not really care if someone has found 50,000 caches for god's sake...lol. You are simply walking/biking/boating to a set of EXACT coordinates. This has never been something I would call a "challenge". Want a challenge? I leave March 21st of 2010 from Springer Mountain in GA for a little walk in the woods. Anyone seeking a real "challenge" can feel free to meet me there. No offense to anyone here, but driving around to parking lots and municipal parks does not make you a real G.C. Seriously, it just does not. I think you will find more than a few people who agree with me on this.

 

To get back on subject: Perhaps the game camera was the best idea...lol.

[knowschad]

to be quite honest I do not see the point in logging my finds.

 

At the risk of making a brief off-topic post, the point is to give back to the person that hid the cache for you.

[Clan Riffster]

I leave March 21st of 2010 from Springer Mountain in GA for a little walk in the woods.

Heck, no need to wait 10 months. I've got an event coming up in Ocala that will test anyone's mettle. If you are into challenges, this one should be right up your alley.

I hope you'll join us. I think it's gonna be a hoot.

 

Back to the topic of logging finds; do you sign the logbook in the caches you've found? The reason I ask is I've done quite a bit of caching in the Space Coast, and I thoroughly enjoy sitting down reading past logs. I don't recall ever seeing dubkid420 in any of them. What name do you put on the log sheets?

Edited May 11, 2009 by Clan Riffster

[+Sol seaker]

has anyone come up with an effective measure for dealing with this type of crime?

 

Any other ideas?

 

Just saw a great one yesterday!!

It was an ammo can under a tree in an industrial park. He might have had the same problem.

 

the ammo can was CHAINED to the tree with a HUGE steel chain!!!!

 

HAH!! that one won't be stolen, although you can steal the stuff inside, for what that's worth (not much)

[+Pork King]

...Back to the topic of logging finds; do you sign the logbook in the caches you've found? The reason I ask is I've done quite a bit of caching in the Space Coast, and I thoroughly enjoy sitting down reading past logs. I don't recall ever seeing dubkid420 in any of them. What name do you put on the log sheets?

 

Busted...lol.

[+Taoiseach]

We have a cache thief with a rather bizarre MO

 

What he does, is steal Ammo Cans, carefully move all of the contents into a poor quality plastic container (sometimes even cammoed!) and re-hides it as found.

 

Anyway, my solution to a cache thief would be to put out a bunch of really long, complicated and ambiguous Letterbox Hybrids, Multis & Puzzles... Oh, wait, I already do that!

[knowschad]

We have a cache thief with a rather bizarre MO

 

What he does, is steal Ammo Cans, carefully move all of the contents into a poor quality plastic container (sometimes even cammoed!) and re-hides it as found.

 

 

Etch an identifying mark somewhere onto the ammo boxes. It would be interesting to see if they turn up as a new cache!

[+Taoiseach]

We have a cache thief with a rather bizarre MO

 

What he does, is steal Ammo Cans, carefully move all of the contents into a poor quality plastic container (sometimes even cammoed!) and re-hides it as found.

 

 

Etch an identifying mark somewhere onto the ammo boxes. It would be interesting to see if they turn up as a new cache!

 

 

I know - I'm waiting to see a new profile, with 9 finds, and 30 hides - All Regulars out in Mer Bleue or Stony Swamp...

[+atmospherium]

Seems completely silly to brag about you ability to follow a gps receiver to an exact coordinate.

 

But it's fun.

 

You are simply walking/biking/boating to a set of EXACT coordinates. This has never been something I would call a "challenge".

 

But it's fun.

 

...driving around to parking lots and municipal parks does not make you a real G.C.

 

But it's fun.

 

Someday I hope to do something that really is a "challenge", so I can call myself a real G.C. and look down my nose at everyone following their GPS receivers around municipal parks and having a good time doing it.

 

Sorry for going off topic, but I hate arrogance. I do enjoy sarcasm, though.

[+Chrysalides]

No offense to anyone here, but driving around to parking lots and municipal parks does not make you a real G.C. Seriously, it just does not.

Pray tell, what makes one a Real Geocacher? Inquisitive minds want to know.

[meathelmet]

Looks like we need to get some of those dye packs they use when banks get robbed. It might not stop them but it would make me feel better.

[meathelmet]

We have a cache thief with a rather bizarre MO

 

What he does, is steal Ammo Cans, carefully move all of the contents into a poor quality plastic container (sometimes even cammoed!) and re-hides it as found.

 

Anyway, my solution to a cache thief would be to put out a bunch of really long, complicated and ambiguous Letterbox Hybrids, Multis & Puzzles... Oh, wait, I already do that!

 

What do the logs say? tftc took ammo box left lock n lock.

[Andronicus]

Looks like we need to get some of those dye packs they use when banks get robbed. It might not stop them but it would make me feel better.

Good idea. I googled that, but no one seems to sell them. you may have to rob a bank to get one.

[+dubkid420]

Dude, the dye packs would be hysterical...lol. Probably would not stop them, but boy that would tick anyone off a little at least...lol. Anyway, I do sign logs. I sign them with my hiking "trail-name" which is IRISH. Occasionally my fiancee' joins me and you may see IRISH & NICOLE then. Is this cat really just taking the containers? That's ridiculous! By the way, what's the happening over at Ocala? I am not trying to be a jerk here but I truly doubt there is much in a flat-as-hell pine forest that is gonna challenge me. But, perhaps I could learn something here. Explain further please? Oh, and to the poster wondering what makes a real G.C. Well, in my (and many people's opinion) someone who goes out looking for the caches that are actually in the wilderness somewhere. Like I said, it may be fun to do but.... Driving a Smart-car is fun to, but you still look dumber than heck doin' it...lol. Just sayin'...lol. (Not to mention you'll be sorry when a kid on a Vespa totals your car...lol)

[+Road Rabbit]

Looks like we need to get some of those dye packs they use when banks get robbed. It might not stop them but it would make me feel better.

Good idea. I googled that, but no one seems to sell them. you may have to rob a bank to get one.

 

Thanks for the idea. It may be easier, though, to find a trained skunk to be a cache guardian.

[+dubkid420]

Yes! Trained skunk, that's the best idea yet...lol. Awesome! Better yet, maybe we can locate a trained badger or wolverine...lol.

[Clan Riffster]

By the way, what's the happening over at Ocala? I am not trying to be a jerk here but I truly doubt there is much in a flat-as-hell pine forest that is gonna challenge me. But, perhaps I could learn something here. Explain further please?

There's a region of ONF that is a sub-tropical forest. A very rare sight anywhere north of the Equator. We'll be bushwhacking that forest. As a difficulty indicator, one of the caches I hid out there resulted in a 0.75 mile, one way track log. The round trip took 4 hours. Every single step you take is either over, under or around something. Temps are expected to be in the mid 90's and humidity will be at 100%. Our total trek will likely be less than 3 miles. I expect it to take a minimum of 8 hours to complete. Critters you will likely encounter will include black bears, venomous snakes, alligators and wild hogs. This place would challenge Steve Irwin!

We'll be hitting the bushes Sunday, May 17th. as early as possible.

Hope you can make it.

 

Driving a Smart-car is fun to, but you still look dumber than heck doin' it. (Not to mention you'll be sorry when a kid on a Vespa totals your car...lol)

[+Taoiseach]

We have a cache thief with a rather bizarre MO

 

What he does, is steal Ammo Cans, carefully move all of the contents into a poor quality plastic container (sometimes even cammoed!) and re-hides it as found.

 

Anyway, my solution to a cache thief would be to put out a bunch of really long, complicated and ambiguous Letterbox Hybrids, Multis & Puzzles... Oh, wait, I already do that!

 

What do the logs say? tftc took ammo box left lock n lock.

 

Oh, we haven't a clue who's doing this - We don't even have the name of a sock puppet account! Every time it's happened, it has either been the next finder or the owner noticing that their ammo can is gone. It's all very bizarre

 

Oh, and dubkid420, you might enjoy a cache that I found recently called 'Not for Whiners' - I hope you take good notes on which caches you've found - With no record, you might visit the same caches over again!

[+GrnXnham]

Within the past few days, 15-20 caches in our area have been stolen. The thief had even taken the time on several to rearrange the camo to disguise the fact that the cache had been taken. Although several hiders have been victimized, the majority of the stolen caches belonged to one local team.

 

My question is this: From time to time, I've seen discussions here about cache thieves, but has anyone come up with an effective measure for dealing with this type of crime? Most of what I've read comes under the category of "ignore them and they'll grow tired of their 'game' and go away sooner or later".

 

Any other ideas?

 

If the problem persists, consider putting out more "subscriber only" caches. I'm not certain but I would guess that most thieves aren't premium members. Most serious cachers are.

[+Chrysalides]

Oh, and to the poster wondering what makes a real G.C. Well, in my (and many people's opinion) someone who goes out looking for the caches that are actually in the wilderness somewhere.

Strange, I thought that would be a definition of a geocacher who likes hiking. But that's just me, what do I know?

 

I tried to look up "geocacher" in Merriam-Webster and it says the word doesn't exist, and suggests "dogcatcher".

[Clan Riffster]

We'll be hitting the bushes Sunday, May 17th. as early as possible.

Hope you can make it.

Is that the sound of crickets chirping?

[+zoltig]

We'll be hitting the bushes Sunday, May 17th. as early as possible.

Hope you can make it.

Is that the sound of crickets chirping?

YUP! It looks like dubkid420 chumped out on ya.

It seems he can talk the talk...

 

L

[+Renegade Knight]

...Any other ideas?

 

A few come to mind. Don't feed their ego. Mostly that's by ignoring them. However key things can be done that make it no worth while. You have to get inside the mind of your maggot though.

 

Or turn it around and take great delight in torturing them. After all they are easy to goad and egg on. You can wind them up and watch them go.

 

Lastly intimidation and violence are pretty effective. But before going vigulante make sure you have the right person. I'd had to see a person who you merely thought was the theif and wasn't pay the price.

[+Renegade Knight]

No offense to anyone here, but driving around to parking lots and municipal parks does not make you a real G.C. Seriously, it just does not.

Pray tell, what makes one a Real Geocacher? Inquisitive minds want to know.

DNFing the caches at the parking lots and parks. That is what makes you a real G.C.

[+Sol seaker]

Oh, and to the poster wondering what makes a real G.C. Well, in my (and many people's opinion) someone who goes out looking for the caches that are actually in the wilderness somewhere.

Strange, I thought that would be a definition of a geocacher who likes hiking. But that's just me, what do I know?

 

I tried to look up "geocacher" in Merriam-Webster and it says the word doesn't exist, and suggests "dogcatcher".

 

"Real geocacher"? what a funny concept. What can possibly be real about searching for tupperware?

 

Although I would think "real geocachers", if there is such a term, would log their finds on the website as that is part of what the geocaching game is.

 

Looking at your profile you have found none. So how are you claiming to be more real than anyone else?

 

Wow, now even heirarchy in geocaching. Just gets in everywhere doesn't it? Like a bad fungus.

[+moparots]

We have a cache thief with a rather bizarre MO

 

What he does, is steal Ammo Cans, carefully move all of the contents into a poor quality plastic container (sometimes even cammoed!) and re-hides it as found.

 

Anyway, my solution to a cache thief would be to put out a bunch of really long, complicated and ambiguous Letterbox Hybrids, Multis & Puzzles... Oh, wait, I already do that!

 

What do the logs say? tftc took ammo box left lock n lock.

 

Now THATS funny!

[+GeoLobo]

Within the past few days, 15-20 caches in our area have been stolen. The thief had even taken the time on several to rearrange the camo to disguise the fact that the cache had been taken. Although several hiders have been victimized, the majority of the stolen caches belonged to one local team.

 

My question is this: From time to time, I've seen discussions here about cache thieves, but has anyone come up with an effective measure for dealing with this type of crime? Most of what I've read comes under the category of "ignore them and they'll grow tired of their 'game' and go away sooner or later".

 

Any other ideas?

 

We had a cache thief problem here in Upstate New York. It was a problem for almost three years...because we let it be a problem. The more we complained and bitched in the local forums and in our cache logs, the more they stole. When we decided to just not pay attention, not say a word, and immediately replace the caches that were stolen (never archive or disable them)....it started to slow down. When it still didn't stop, we started to multiply the caches making it impossible for them to get them all in one area. We saturated the area with micros and smalls making the thief use lots of gas for nothing but 35 mm film canisters and paint ball canisters. It has now stopped since last fall. Hopefully it will remain that way for sometime. Just in case though, I have purchased two trail cameras (digital non-flash) which i have placed near two random caches. The idea is too get a picture of this person only. So, we can post it on all of the local forums. This person will think twice about walking the local trails if they know others know who they are.

 

In addition, in the past, we have unsuccessfully staked the thief out on weekends.....with a group rotating shifts

[+Stargazer22]

We'll be hitting the bushes Sunday, May 17th. as early as possible.

Hope you can make it.

 

 

Well, I'll be there for sure! Even my wife, SwampyGirl is going.

Will this finally make us 'real G.C.s', or did we get that status after finding 500 caches? Or possibly sometime after our 5th CITO? Or after our 10th event? Or maybe after that one LPS we did?

 

I know SwampyGirl is a real G.C.er, she earned her geoname. I guess I'll just have to take a header into some quicksand in Mormon Creek Sunday to cut the muster..... Riffster, you better get ready to mark those coordinates for my next of kin.

 

So sorry to hear about your cache thief. We are watching the situation with interest as well. Best thing we can do is not to feed their egos I think, and just quietly deal with the situation the best we can. Good luck!

Edited May 15, 2009 by Stargazer22