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Reavealing Cache coords before they are published?


undertree
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First off I have not offered Coords to anyone yet. I was wondering what others think of giving someone the coords to a cache before it is officially published.

 

I am going to place a regular sized cache near me and I would like to offer the coords to a family that loves all of my hides. Ok Flattery has earned them a soft spot in my heart. For some reason many caches near me are micros even though it is a rural area. I myself have contributed to the micro Heck that it is.

 

If I do offer up the coords before the cache is published then I think I will state that in the cache.

 

Before you all rip into me I would only think of doing such a thing for a non PM member with kids who might get a kick out of getting a first to find.

 

My other option might be to email them the coords as soon as it is published??

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there's no point getting a kick out of a FTF that someone hands you.

 

it's a tainted trophy, a fixed fight, a thrown game.

 

if someone gave me one outright, i'd be insulted.

 

I agree... I would want to earn my first FTF on my own.

 

Although I understand why you want to do it... that is nice of you, but maybe you could make sure they are aware that you are going to be posting a new cache within X number of days and to keep an eye out for it to be published and that you are telling them this because you know they have enjoyed your caches in the past. Don't tell them where it is at all, just that it is coming up soon. Then they will watch for it and try to be the FTF on their own.

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I feel that is fine, it is your cache and if that is what you want to do, then you are welcome to do so.

I have hidden caches for events that were later published but the event attendees got first crack at them. I have had caches hidden for camping events that were not published until after they were found by the folks on the camping trips. I just gave coordinates to a group that had hunted some of my caches and they were planning a return trip to the area so I gave them the coordinates to a cache that had been hidden for a few months, I published it after it was found. I also have another cache hidden that I will publish at some time and I have already given the coordinates out to two people but it has not been found yet.

 

I am dealing with a cache thief in the area so the only way I know the caches will be there is not publishing them until after they are found. It is nice for the cachers that hunt to know that at least they will find a cache if all the published caches are stolen. But If I wanted to give the coordinates to a cache to someone before the cache is listed I will because that is how I want the cache found. Many times friends of mine are given coordinates to hunt the cache before it is listed, they typically don't log a FTF because they were just doing a test run. I have done the same for other people's caches as well.

 

Joe

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It's your cache so you can do what you like but you might want to think for a moment, if a person would want a FTF handed to them in this manner. I will tell you now that if someone wanted to do that for me, i would tell them that, allthough i appreciate the nice gesture, it's not something i'm interested in. I like FTFs, i like them alot,,, but i wouldn't even consider claiming one if someone tried to give me coordinates to a cache before it was published thereby making me the only one who knew the cache was out.

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It is acceptable and actually fairly common, especially in the case of milestone or tribute caches.

 

FTF is the same as STF, TTF 100thTF, no different so no problem giving coords to many prior to getting published. Sometimes we forget that GC is simply a listing service.

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I'm so glad someone brought this up because I've been wondering and I'll tell you why. I got a nice email from a cacher across the country who I had contacted about a TB. In her email she was telling me about the monthly event they have and she said this:

 

"We have a monthly RAFFLE which everyone donates stuff towards (only voluntarily), and we

get some great items. I loooove the Raffles. There are always some "First To

Finds" printed up & rolled up like a diploma....usually about 3 of those are in

each Raffle. The one who wins the FTF has until 9pm to find it b/c at 9pm the

Cache Reviewer publishes it for other Cachers to have access to."

 

I was really intrigued and threw the idea out there in our local geochat in anticipation of my first two cache placements. I'm thinking there are more than a few cachers who aren't able to take off whenever the alarm goes off, but would love a chance to log just one FTF. I expected at least one person to think it might be an interesting idea, but I was wrong! All the feedback I got was that it was a terrible idea. Maybe the people this would be targeted for aren't able to be chatting online early on a school night; I don't know. At any rate, I didn't do it, but I admit I'm still thinking about it for the next one. :)

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Cheapens the prize. If you do ANYTHING to give someone the advantage, it lowers the bar, makes the FTF meaningless. Why don't you just have them sign the log before you place it, and let them log the find without even going to the site.

 

You shouldn't even have to ask. You already know the answer.

 

Don't cheat your friend out of a real FTF. You aren't doing them a favor, you are hurting them by taking away the chance at a real milestone.

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FTF - is the first person to get to the cache located at those coordinates.

 

I really don't see how they got the coordinates as being at all relevant to FTF.

 

I'd be honored if you chose me to go first.

 

Of couse I really don't view FTF as a race as much as a verification the coords are correct and a chance to sign the new log.

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I think it's nice the OP wants to do this, but I think the FTF would be more meaningful for them if instead you called them up immediately when the cache is published and let them know it is now ready to be found. Once it's published you could tell them the coordinates and they could immediately start hunting for it rather than maybe not noticing it was published for 12 to 24 hours. That will have the same effect, and will get them on an equal playing field with the PMs who get instant notifications. :)

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I agree and disagree with pre-publishing FTF's

A. if its a tribute cache..then the one being honored should have a heads up and be FTF...however, the honoree should NOT sign the log before the cache is placed. The honoree should get a heads up that it has been submitted fer listing, and go find it first. (kind of a standard in my caching neighborhood.. been there done that.. a few times)

B. if it is a regular cache placed by a fellow cacher, not a tribute cache of any kind, then I think there should be no heads up warnings, giving everyone a fair shot at FTF.

I actually got a lecture from my mom 2 days ago on a new cache I listed. "You never told me you were placing a new cache" I told her.. "No one got a heads up, it's just another Lincoln Highway cache" (she has yet to find it)

So, thats just my opinion... tribute cache okay..just another find cache not okay

~BB

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As a cache owner it's my business how I advertise my cache. I can give the coordinates to a friend, post them on another geocaching website, put them on Facebook, stick them in an ad in the paper or hire a sky writer to paste them across the sky. It's my cache and nobody's beeswax how I choose to advertise it.

 

Once it's posted on this website and someone finds it, another name may be in the logbook before his. Guess what, he's second to find.

 

The FTF game is a game within a game that a small segment of geocachers are into and not my concern.

Edited by briansnat
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I appreciate all the posts regarding the ethics of such a move.

 

I contacted the cachers through the website and let them make the decision. I also have linked to this discussion so that they can make an informed decision. For some crazy reason there are not too many regular caches near the house. But I hope to change that up a bit in the near future.

 

I like well thought out caches and I try to hide the same, even if they are micros.

 

Feel free to post more about this topic as it seems a few others may have the same question.

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I think it's a good idea that you have given them the choice. That was what I was going to suggest you do, since everyone has such differing opinions on this matter.

 

Humans seem to always want to make a contest out of everything, I assume they just get bored with the same-o-same-o and have to raise the stakes. Someone has to WIN! I regard the "winning" and the "prize" the chance to get outside, be with myself/friends/family, and to find something.

 

I don't see FTF as a race, although some do. I don't get mad that they race each other to FTF, and I don't think that they should get mad if someone gets FTF in a way that isn't level with FTF'rs made up "level playing field". I actually prefer to see all those signatures/notes of people who have found the cache before me. :ph34r:

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I agree with the consensus that if you're in the FTF game that it should be earned. If I share coordinates with someone on a new cache, I ALWAYS make sure to reserve the top spot for the real FTFer. The person I give the cheat to HAS to take the second spot on the log or lower with FTF honors being just that, honorable.

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It is acceptable and actually fairly common, especially in the case of milestone or tribute caches.

 

FTF is the same as STF, TTF 100thTF, no different so no problem giving coords to many prior to getting published. Sometimes we forget that GC is simply a listing service.

Yes, I agree. Many cachers in many regions regularly announce their hides and coordinates on local geo forums or list groups days or even weeks before they are listed at geocaching.com, and this is not a problem. As Baloo&bd has said, geocaching.com is just a geocache listing service, and, while by far the largest, it is only one out of several, and a cache is a cache, regardless of whether it is listed on no public listing services (i.e., where the location is privately circulated), or on one or two or three listing services.

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It seems to me it's not First to find unless more than one person has a chance to find it. While there's nothing wrong with awarding the honor of being the only hunter to anybody you pick, it just isn't the same as winning an actual race. As for me I enjoy the game within the game. I would rather have somebody find it before me than be handed the FTF.

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I guess this counts as a 'Yes' -- I once handed my GPSr to a guy & let him find a cache I'd just placed & was as yet unpublished. I was on my way to meet a newspaper reporter doing an article on Geocaching & wanted to interview me. We only had a limited amount of time, so I didn't figure there'd be much harm in making it as convenient as possible.

 

Besides, the only FTF hounds around here have hundreds already, & their goals aren't mine.

(knowing flask is just gonna LUV that) *LOL*

~*

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I guess I'm with Brian and the minority. It's no one's business who or how you give the coordinates, but your own. It's your cache. Being first to find in just that, nothing more. If someone doesn't like that you gave someone the coordinates so they can hunt it before it's published, thus "depriving" them the chance to be FTF, tough nuts.

 

Being the first person to find a cache just is. There is no prize or reward, but of your own making. If a cache owner only wants a small subset of cachers--even if just one person--then so what?

 

I see some folks are getting upset that a select few get the chance to be FTF, but what if it were one of those times where the cache is MOC for a short time. Oh, yeah, it's okay then, right?

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IMO- Handing someone the cache ahead of others is not a guarantee they will be FTF. First to try, sure, but a clever hide can still stump someone. Give them a time limit. give them a one-day advantage or something. They might find it first try, or it might go to someone else when it gets published on the site....

 

Also, I really like the idea of a raffle prize being a headstart on a new cache. Again, not a guarantee they'll find it first, but the opportunity is great.

 

All that being said, i'm not after FTFs myself though I would be excited to get one. If it happens it happens, if not there are plenty of fun caches that have had many of other people there before me. FTF's main draw is sometimes they have unique or valuable items in, but that can happen for anyone if the previous finder was generous with their swag...

 

:ph34r:

 

Do what you like, if you think they'd think it was cool.

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We all cache differently and have our own sets of guidelines we set up for ourselves. I do agree that finding a cache first can happen whether a cache is published or not. It simply means that it was found first and there's nothing anyone can do to change that.

 

But my guideline, for me, is,,, a cache is not "legal" to log online unless it is published first. One thing that comes to my mind is that someone might find the cache but then that cache may not meet gc.com listing requirements and not get published on the site. Just seems logical to me that the "published" point of a caches life is the right time to say that it's fair game for everyone to go out and find.

 

I guess i'm still baffled as to why anyone would want to claim a ftf in this manner in the first place. I don't care if it's a tribute cache or what, what would be good/fun/special about getting a ftf handed to you like that?

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OK, I'll be a salmon here and swim upstream.

 

I don't see anything wrong with this. It's your cache, you handle it in any manner that is fun for you and your friends. Sometimes being FTF has nothing to do with winning a race. Sometimes it's just nice to be the first to sign the logbook and have first dibs on whatever swag may be for trade in the cache, or whatever coins or TBs there are to move. Let your friends have that experience. Especially if they are working folks and don't usually get the opportunity to drop whatever they are doing to run for a cache.

 

I think it's amusing that this would bother anyone. It might get under the skin of some of those hard core FTF hounds that just live to fly out the door at any odd hour for a FTF. After all, you might be preventing them from jumping out of bed at 3AM to run out for a cache. :laughing:

 

Any FTF hound that gets bent out of shape because you offered ONE measly little cache as FTF to your friends should call 1-800-FTF-ANON for instructions on a 12 step program for their affliction. :D

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I guess i'm still baffled as to why anyone would want to claim a ftf in this manner in the first place. I don't care if it's a tribute cache or what, what would be good/fun/special about getting a ftf handed to you like that?

 

"Bill, I just placed a cache over in Hillside. Here are the coords."

 

"Bill, I just got a new cache published. Check the new caches in the area on the site"

 

If the first is "handing" someone a find, so is the second. No difference. The cacher needs to find it either way and since we use the coords either way, both are being "handed" to them. Why should I have to wait until it is published on GS to let people seek it out. If it is never published, they still have the find. It is still good/fun/special, published or not.

 

In our area, and I assume many others, Magellan ran a contest a few years back where they placed several caches that were only posted on their website for weeks, if not months, before being published on GC. I am betting each of the people that found it prior to it's published date went through the same steps and found the same thing as those who found it after it was listed here. The cache(s) didn't change.

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As a cache owner it's my business how I advertise my cache. I can give the coordinates to a friend, post them on another geocaching website, put them on Facebook, stick them in an ad in the paper or hire a sky writer to paste them across the sky. It's my cache and nobody's beeswax how I choose to advertise it.

 

Once it's posted on this website and someone finds it, another name may be in the logbook before his. Guess what, he's second to find.

 

The FTF game is a game within a game that a small segment of geocachers are into and not my concern.

 

I guess I'm with Brian and the minority. It's no one's business who or how you give the coordinates, but your own. It's your cache. Being first to find in just that, nothing more. If someone doesn't like that you gave someone the coordinates so they can hunt it before it's published, thus "depriving" them the chance to be FTF, tough nuts.

 

Being the first person to find a cache just is. There is no prize or reward, but of your own making. If a cache owner only wants a small subset of cachers--even if just one person--then so what?

 

I see some folks are getting upset that a select few get the chance to be FTF, but what if it were one of those times where the cache is MOC for a short time. Oh, yeah, it's okay then, right?

Agreed...

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I guess i'm still baffled as to why anyone would want to claim a ftf in this manner in the first place. I don't care if it's a tribute cache or what, what would be good/fun/special about getting a ftf handed to you like that?

 

"Bill, I just placed a cache over in Hillside. Here are the coords."

 

"Bill, I just got a new cache published. Check the new caches in the area on the site"

 

If the first is "handing" someone a find, so is the second. No difference. The cacher needs to find it either way and since we use the coords either way, both are being "handed" to them. Why should I have to wait until it is published on GS to let people seek it out. If it is never published, they still have the find. It is still good/fun/special, published or not.

 

In our area, and I assume many others, Magellan ran a contest a few years back where they placed several caches that were only posted on their website for weeks, if not months, before being published on GC. I am betting each of the people that found it prior to it's published date went through the same steps and found the same thing as those who found it after it was listed here. The cache(s) didn't change.

 

I sure see a difference. The first scenario has Bill alone getting the coordinates with no one else having a chance. In the second scenario, the cache is published and even though Bill gets a heads up that it is listed, everyone else that might be interested has the chance to see it too!

 

On the good/fun/special i was referring to,, i was talking about that feeling of accomplishment, knowing that others had the chance to get the ftf and then beating them to it. I just don't see how a person can have those same good feelings if they are the only ones that know about a new cache and/or if they know that other people are holding back to let them have it.

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I wouldnt hand someone a FTF, that needs to be earned.

When I hid my first cache earlier this month I knew the family who introduced me to geocaching wouldnt be getting to the site for at least 5 days and with the FTF-racers in the area it would be logged, but I gave them the cache ID in an email exchange.

 

And with all the FTF-racers I'm tempted to hike 6 miles up the trail that's had 2 people fall to their deaths off the cliffs within the last month and leave a cache out there. evil4.gif

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Technically, before the "cache" is reviewed and published, it is not a "cache".

 

We don't have a review process for nothing. I think any cache should go through the proper review process first.

 

That's new, might want to let the people at TC and other cache sites know.

 

A cache is a cache after it is placed. GS is just one of the listing services, albeit the biggest.

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First off I have not offered Coords to anyone yet. I was wondering what others think of giving someone the coords to a cache before it is officially published.

 

I am going to place a regular sized cache near me and I would like to offer the coords to a family that loves all of my hides. Ok Flattery has earned them a soft spot in my heart. For some reason many caches near me are micros even though it is a rural area. I myself have contributed to the micro Heck that it is.

 

If I do offer up the coords before the cache is published then I think I will state that in the cache.

 

Before you all rip into me I would only think of doing such a thing for a non PM member with kids who might get a kick out of getting a first to find.

 

My other option might be to email them the coords as soon as it is published??

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with giving out the coordinates before it is Published, as long as the person you have given the coordinates to understands that they can't claim a FTF on the cache.

 

Scubasonic

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Here is my take on FTF.

 

I could care less. If I am in the mood when the cache is published then I may give it a go. Otherwise I don't care much. I would rather get a FTF on a remote cache than be in "The Race". I did offer up the coords to the other cacher but they didn't hunt it. The cache was published at 2:00 am and the FTF was at 2:00 am. I hid two regular caches in the area and they were both found right off the bat.

 

I guess that when I feel the need to offer early coords I will just offer them up. All of the people that find this "not fair" life is not fair. I suppose it is my cache and my rules for now. :)

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Imagine watching the Amazing Race and instead of a fair competition and an exciting show they show friends of the show's producer running up to get the prize. That is how your cache will be viewed by the FTFers in your area. If watching a TV show like that would be OK with you then have at it...

 

Around here we let people "beta-test" a cache before it is listed. They sign the back of the logbook and they also log online after the FTF race is over. That idea might work for you because it gives you a win-win outcome.

Edited by TrailGators
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I have seen some bunch of caches hides that the first to finds were for kids only.... They want the game to go on and what better way then to encourage kids..... Fair game only after a child logged it ...all other would be deleted until such time.

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I have seen some bunch of caches hides that the first to finds were for kids only.... They want the game to go on and what better way then to encourage kids..... Fair game only after a child logged it ...all other would be deleted until such time.
Why not? The owner posts his cache rules right on his cache page. That is a fun spin on the game! :)

 

If you apply that to this situation, what would the other kids in the community learn if the cache owner's kids got the cache coords before the cache was listed and got FTF before the even got a shot at it?

Edited by TrailGators
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My take is that it's okay to give out the coordinates as listed in the OP, but perhaps to make assuage the the FTF seekers, perhaps the information that the coordinates were given out and that "SoandSo Cachers" are the FTF could be listed on the cache page.

 

 

 

 

.

 

... since you are supposed to read the cache page before you run out. :)

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Do I care?

 

Certainly not more than giving my opinion about it. Make it a habit and then we'll talk.

I don't really care because it's a game and there are plenty of caches that allow for fair play for the FTFers.

 

Not sure why you quoted me.

Because I was agreeing with you... Edited by TrailGators
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I was wondering what others think of giving someone the coords to a cache before it is officially published.

 

There are many cachers who, for various reasons, don’t care about FTFs, which is totally understandable. For a lot of those cachers an FTF is merely about who was first to find the cache and sign the log. Technically those cachers are not wrong.

 

However for the sub-set of cachers who do care about FTFs, it is about more than finding the cache first; it is a race; a friendly competition. The race begins when the cache is published.

 

If your goal is to have your friend merely find and log the cache first, then go ahead and give them the coordinates prior to publication. But if the goal is for your friend to win the FTF race, then by giving them the coordinates prior to publication they are merely a spectator walking the course.

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