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Loggin your own caches as "Found" in your stats?


SARAH !
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Okay, I have wondered this for a while and seen people doing this to their local caches. If you own or co-own a cache can you and should you log a found it log. Does it even count as a smiley? I've seen a bunch of people do it, and I kind of think that's it's like just so their numbers go up. Do some of the more experienced geocachers do this?

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Yes, it can be done.

 

I think it is cheesy but sometimes there are exceptions. One example is if you find a cache and at a later date you adopt it from the original hider. Co-hides are more in the gray, but I have several co-hides with friends in another state and I have never logged them myself as I was there when they were placed.

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Yes, it can be done.

 

I think it is cheesy but sometimes there are exceptions. One example is if you find a cache and at a later date you adopt it from the original hider. Co-hides are more in the gray, but I have several co-hides with friends in another state and I have never logged them myself as I was there when they were placed.

 

Exactly what the sandman said. But don't worry, the "if it feels good, do it" crowd, who's biggest disappointment in life is they missed being hippies in the 1960's will be here any minute. :lol:

 

Just kidding, but the official company line on logging a find on your own cache is that there are enough reasons for the ability to do it for it to still exist. Logging a cache you "co-hid" of course, there's no way to program that out.

Edited by TheWhiteUrkel
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If you own or co-own a cache can you and should you log a found it log. Does it even count as a smiley? ...

 

The real problem is that you can't truly co-own a cache in a meaningful way. There is only one owner (insofar as this site) and that's the account that created the cache. That account gets the credit for a cache placed. The co-owner gets jack. Not even an email when there is a log.

 

As co owner it will show up on your unfound list, and you won't get emails of the logs or the 'contact cache onwer'. If there is a problem and you are the one able to fix it. Odds are you will be overlooked.

 

Ignoring the cache removes it from your unfound list. However your cache total (found + placed) is off.

Watching the cache lets you get emails when someone logs. (You will still be overlooked as an owner).

Finding the cache removes it from your unfound list, and your cache total is right, but the subtotals of found or placed is now wrong.

Not caring about it doesn't solve any problems but then by not caring you don't actually have a problem to solve.

 

All solutions are compromises to work around the real issue of no true and actual joint ownership.

 

That's the long way to say, yeah, it's cheezy but it solves problems and cheezy or not it's the only solution that keeps the cache total accurate.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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Yes, it can be done.

 

I think it is cheesy but sometimes there are exceptions. One example is if you find a cache and at a later date you adopt it from the original hider. Co-hides are more in the gray, but I have several co-hides with friends in another state and I have never logged them myself as I was there when they were placed.

 

Agree, though on the scale from Kraft Singles to Limberger it's not the stinkiest cheese in the fridge. I've discussed this with other backcountry cachers, and their case is that you don't want to discourage the buddy system on long cache-placement hikes. And you don't want to create an incentive for co-owners who were along on the placement trip to log as first-finders instead.

 

My philosophy: I won't do it, but I don't care if others do. In the absence of other information on a cacher's geo-ethics, this would probably register in the subconscious as a tiny demerit. That impression would be entirely erased if the co-owner later returned to do maintenance on the cache.

 

RK's analysis above is absolutely correct; if there were a co-ownership mechanism built into the listing process, there'd be no issue. This is one case where there's a technical solution to an ethical problem.

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Personally, I probably would not do this. But there are tons of cases where a group of people are present when a cache is placed, and all but the owner immediately claim finds. But usually none of the other people are listed as "co-owners".

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A friend listed me and another cacher as co-owners on one of his caches where the three of us went out together to do the climb and place the cache. As has been said, it really doesn't mean anything other than having my name next to his in the cache listing. I logged a note at the time so I could post some pictures. I will log a find when I go back again and find the cache.

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Some do it, for a variety of reasons. You can decide whether you think those reasons are legitimate.

 

At the end of the day, however, their logging it doesn't affect how you log it, so who cares?

 

Yeah but I want ours to "count", but personally I think it would be padding, but it is tempting.

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The only caches of my own that I've found are the handful of caches that I adopted from others (I had found them previously when owned by the other individual and liked them so much that when they were no longer able to care for them, I offered to adopt them).

 

So, I think the answer generally is "no, it's bad form".

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So what's the general consensus on logging your own caches as finds in your stats? Is that considered padding or is it acceptable?

I'll answer it this way...How can you "find" your own cache when you already know where it is?

 

So I assume that's a no, it's not an acceptable practice.

I honestly don't know anyone that has hidden a cache and then gone out to find it and log it. It would be interesting to read the log for one of those....

 

"That one really had me stumped. I almost gave up and had to log a DNF but then I finally remembered where I hid this thing yesterday. I took a bunch of stuff and didn't leave anything because it was all my stuff anyhow. Thanks for hiding one of the best caches I have ever done."

Edited by TrailGators
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So what's the general consensus on logging your own caches as finds in your stats? Is that considered padding or is it acceptable?

I'll answer it this way...How can you "find" your own cache when you already know where it is?

 

So I assume that's a no, it's not an acceptable practice.

I honestly don't know anyone that has hidden a cache and then gone out to find it and log it. It would be interesting to read the log for one of those....

 

"That one really had me stumped. I almost gave up and had to log a DNF but then I finally remembered where I hid this thing yesterday. I took a bunch of stuff and didn't leave anything because it was all my stuff anyhow. Thanks for hiding one of the best caches I have ever done."

 

LOL

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Padding is something you do to a bra. And I guess even then you'd have differing opinions if it is right or not. Your "find count" on geocaching is simply a count of the number of found logs + attended logs + webcam photo taken logs that you have entered on geocaching.com. You can't pad this number. But you can decide whether it is appropriate to use one of these logs or not. Most people don't log their own hides. But many people do log an attended on the event they hosted or take a picture at a webcam they listed. (New webcams have to be listed on Waymarking.com and there people are encouraged to log a visit to their own waymarks.) Do what ever you feel is right.

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I know of someone who has his own caches and actually has to use a GPS to find them. Not that they are hid all that well, he just cant remember where they are. There may be one cache I own that I may have to log as a find. I have not been to the cache since I placed it and dont even know if I could find it with out a GPS. Definitely will try first, but if I have to use the GPS, then I am logging it...lol

Other than that, I had thought about this question and decided it would not be right to log it.

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I honestly don't know anyone that has hidden a cache and then gone out to find it and log it. It would be interesting to read the log for one of those....

 

"That one really had me stumped. I almost gave up and had to log a DNF but then I finally remembered where I hid this thing yesterday. I took a bunch of stuff and didn't leave anything because it was all my stuff anyhow. Thanks for hiding one of the best caches I have ever done."

 

LOL! Now THAT right there.......that's funny!! :D;):D

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I have 4 caches that have been adopted by another cacher.

So I won't and shouldn't log them as finds as I once owned them.

Same goes for any cache I placed.

Don't you do it either. ;)

No, I would say "attending" an event 10 to 20 times is the height of lameness. Followed closely by "finding" the same cache several times.

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So what's the general consensus on logging your own caches as finds in your stats? Is that considered padding or is it acceptable?

I'll answer it this way...How can you "find" your own cache when you already know where it is?

 

So I assume that's a no, it's not an acceptable practice.

I honestly don't know anyone that has hidden a cache and then gone out to find it and log it. It would be interesting to read the log for one of those....

 

"That one really had me stumped. I almost gave up and had to log a DNF but then I finally remembered where I hid this thing yesterday. I took a bunch of stuff and didn't leave anything because it was all my stuff anyhow. Thanks for hiding one of the best caches I have ever done."

 

"Tried to call the owner to get a hint but kept on getting a busy signal."

 

I've adopted 8 caches, all of which I had previously found before (I suspect that few would adopt a cache that they had not yet found) including the first cache I ever found.

 

At the end of the day, how you play the game is up to the individual geocacher. Logging a find on your own caches just to get a few additional finds in your stats, to me, should require an asterisk next to the find count.

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I recently adopted twenty caches from some friends who simply cannot keep up anymore. Out of them I have not yet found eight. Was wondering if it was ethical to count as a find? Then again the ones I adopted and found are now mine anyways. What's the difference? ;)

 

- HHH :D

 

Just trying to figure out how you can "own" something you've never had in your hand :smile:

 

Would you have to "find" it in order to maintain it? If you "find" it can you log the "find" or just post the maintenance log? :D

 

I'm so confused! :D

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So what's the general consensus on logging your own caches as finds in your stats? Is that considered padding or is it acceptable?

I'll answer it this way...How can you "find" your own cache when you already know where it is?

 

So I assume that's a no, it's not an acceptable practice.

 

Sociologically speaking? Correct. You know, Folkways and Mores and that sort of thing. But you're going to get a lot more "play the game anyway you want" or "if it feels good, do it man" type of advice here in the forums then you will see in the real world.

 

For example, there are 2,402 caches within 50 miles of my home coords, and I've seen this done approximately 10 times by 2 people; 3-4 times by an older retired gentleman who logged "just getting credit for my own cache", and 6-7 times by a guy who was having a temper tantrum, and mass archiving some of his caches. :D

 

And yes, as others have said, I almost always use a GPS to re-find my own caches. Just did it Sunday, as a matter of fact. ;)

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So what's the general consensus on logging your own caches as finds in your stats? Is that considered padding or is it acceptable?

I'll answer it this way...How can you "find" your own cache when you already know where it is?

 

So I assume that's a no, it's not an acceptable practice.

I honestly don't know anyone that has hidden a cache and then gone out to find it and log it. It would be interesting to read the log for one of those....

 

"That one really had me stumped. I almost gave up and had to log a DNF but then I finally remembered where I hid this thing yesterday. I took a bunch of stuff and didn't leave anything because it was all my stuff anyhow. Thanks for hiding one of the best caches I have ever done."

Hey, I never thought of that. I could have logged this one of mine.

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Some do it, for a variety of reasons. You can decide whether you think those reasons are legitimate.

 

At the end of the day, however, their logging it doesn't affect how you log it, so who cares?

 

Yeah but I want ours to "count", but personally I think it would be padding, but it is tempting.

I hate to be the one to have to break this to you, but you finds don't count; not to anyone but you, anyways.

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Hi Headhardhat

 

re logging finds on caches that you have adopted, but not yet found, personally I'd say yes, that's okay.

As the new owner, you do need to go out and find them, and they will be finds! you'll be hunting them for the first time, just as if you hadn't adopted them. And thank you for taking them on.

 

it's not like logging a find of a cache you placed.

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I recently adopted twenty caches from some friends who simply cannot keep up anymore. Out of them I have not yet found eight. Was wondering if it was ethical to count as a find? Then again the ones I adopted and found are now mine anyways. What's the difference? :anitongue:

 

- HHH :ph34r:

 

To me the litmus test is whether or not you actually found it. Adopted caches are a different story because you don't know where those are hidden until you search for them and find them. So I seriously doubt that you will find many people that would frown on logging those. :laughing:
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So what's the general consensus on logging your own caches as finds in your stats? Is that considered padding or is it acceptable?

I'll answer it this way...How can you "find" your own cache when you already know where it is?

 

So I assume that's a no, it's not an acceptable practice.

I honestly don't know anyone that has hidden a cache and then gone out to find it and log it. It would be interesting to read the log for one of those....

 

"That one really had me stumped. I almost gave up and had to log a DNF but then I finally remembered where I hid this thing yesterday. I took a bunch of stuff and didn't leave anything because it was all my stuff anyhow. Thanks for hiding one of the best caches I have ever done."

 

"Tried to call the owner to get a hint but kept on getting a busy signal."

:anitongue: Good one!
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I honestly don't know anyone that has hidden a cache and then gone out to find it and log it. It would be interesting to read the log for one of those....

I was reading through the logs of a challenging cache and saw that the owner logged it as a find, saying "Found it while checking on it..."

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Hi Headhardhat

 

re logging finds on caches that you have adopted, but not yet found, personally I'd say yes, that's okay.

As the new owner, you do need to go out and find them, and they will be finds! you'll be hunting them for the first time, just as if you hadn't adopted them. And thank you for taking them on.

 

it's not like logging a find of a cache you placed.

 

I don't want to speak for the OP, but he is a low-find cacher that's been around for about 2 years. I believe he is clearly talking about logging caches he just placed himself this month.

 

As far as the adoption thing, I don't think I've ever seen even the most hardcore Puritan find anything wrong with that. :anitongue:

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I honestly don't know anyone that has hidden a cache and then gone out to find it and log it. It would be interesting to read the log for one of those....

I was reading through the logs of a challenging cache and saw that the owner logged it as a find, saying "Found it while checking on it..."

A challenge cache is in that gray zone. The point is to "find" a cache in every county, state or whatever. The final is only created so it can be listed but it really isn't part of the actual challenge. IMHO challenge caches don't even need a final but those are the rules. So I don't have an issue with owners logging those but some people do. It all boils down to what you really think is right. Are you following a rule that makes sense or are you following a rule for the sake of following a rule? Edited by TrailGators
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I have 4 caches that have been adopted by another cacher.

So I won't and shouldn't log them as finds as I once owned them.

 

That happened not far from here. Someone hid 20 or so caches. They had to move away so they adopted them out and then logged them all as finds, "Since I no longer own these, I guess I can log them as a find..."

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I honestly don't know anyone that has hidden a cache and then gone out to find it and log it. It would be interesting to read the log for one of those....

I was reading through the logs of a challenging cache and saw that the owner logged it as a find, saying "Found it while checking on it..."

A challenge cache is in that gray zone. The point is to "find" a cache in every county, state or whatever. The final is only created so it can be listed but it really isn't part of the actual challenge. IMHO challenge caches don't even need a final but those are the rules. So I don't have an issue with owners logging those but some people do. It all boils down to what you really think is right. Are you following a rule that makes sense or are you following a rule for the sake of following a rule?

 

There is no gray zone. If you list it, it's bogus for you to log it. Since you have to list that final cache all the rest is just a more extensive puzzle/multi/mystery.

 

That people are saying "gee, if the puzzle is complex enough and takes enough work, and enough time and the onwer hasn't even done the puzzle then maybe the owner should be allowed to do it too" is really picking out anoter issue and not the owner logs own cache one.

 

This could be fixed if we had stats. Then this site could dole out awards based on achievements. Found a cache in every county, you get a badge. Find one in every state, another badge. Found a cache in every delorme quad, a badge. Found a cache in the low/high point in each county, a badge. There is a compromise available but that has it's own cheezy elements.

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So what's the general consensus on logging your own caches as finds in your stats? Is that considered padding or is it acceptable?
Hmmm, with +250 hides I could jack my numbers up really QUICK!!!! :laughing: While you're at it why not claim the FTF on all your caches, too? I mean you were the first one to locate it after it was hidden....

 

Naw... that's about as low as low can go and unless numbers are the only reason someone caches, they shouldn't even have that thought cross their mind. I have some hides where I grew up in NC and I have placed caches here to pay back people for helping me maintain them. They have ownership of them but I maintain them for them. They are not "mine", do not show up as "mine" but show up as not found caches in my home territory which irks me. But no way I'd even think of claiming a find on them, I hid them! :anitongue: Duh!

 

I do have a local PAG that's camo'ed good and got some DNF's on it about 6 months ago and when I checked on it, I almost gave up after 15 minutes but finally found it myself. Then a month or so ago, I started to get DNF's on it again (it's tricky) and when i checked on it again, once again I almosy wrote it off as missing but found it. After all that work I felt like I should get to claim a find.... but no, I won't.

Edited by infiniteMPG
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I honestly don't know anyone that has hidden a cache and then gone out to find it and log it. It would be interesting to read the log for one of those....

I was reading through the logs of a challenging cache and saw that the owner logged it as a find, saying "Found it while checking on it..."

A challenge cache is in that gray zone. The point is to "find" a cache in every county, state or whatever.

 

It wasn't a challenge cache (like a DeLorme), but a challenging one, as in difficult to find.

Edited by Skippermark
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I have some hides where I grew up in NC and I have placed caches here to pay back people for helping me maintain them. They have ownership of them but I maintain them for them. They are not "mine", do not show up as "mine" but show up as not found caches in my home territory which irks me. But no way I'd even think of claiming a find on them, I hid them!

I was in a similar situation and back when I hated having them as my nearest "unfound" cache (before the ignore option was available) I just marked them as found, noted that I was doing this, and then found other caches and marked them as "Notes."

 

This way they were gone from my "nearest" list and my numbers weren't padded.

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As far as the adoption thing, I don't think I've ever seen even the most hardcore Puritan find anything wrong with that.

 

I adopted a few caches that I hadn't found yet. I thought about whether or not I would log finds on them after my first maint visit, as it would have been my first time there. I eventually decided against it because I just didn't feel right about logging a find on a cache that was in my name.

 

Now if I had previously found the caches before I adopted them, I'd have no qualms about leaving my found it logs. They were legit finds at the time. No need to change history.

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Yeah but I want ours to "count", but personally I think it would be padding, but it is tempting.

It already counts. It's on your profile for all the world to see. But I assume you want it to "count" in the number next to your name beside your cache logs?

 

There are lots of ways to quickly raise that number:

- Go find lots of caches. Unfortunately this takes work, and some people just don't want to go to this much trouble.

- Search for old Virtual caches with no verification requirements. Claim finds from thousands of miles away.

- Search for caches owned by members who are no longer active (either just dropped out or officially banned). As the cache owner will never delete any bogus logs, go ahead and log all you want. If the cache is archived then even better because legitimate finders can't complain because you never signed the physical log.

- Form a caching "team" and log finds everytime anyone on your team finds a cache anywhere in the world.

- Log each stage of a multicache as a separate find.

- Place lots of "temporary caches" at events and log multiple finds (one for each temporary cache) for the event.

- Create a cache, have it listed, then immediately archive it. Use it to claim finds on all the caches where you normally don't get "credit", such as any of the above items where the owners keep deleting your extra logs. Also can be used to claim "credit" for finds on caches that are listed on other sites (letterboxes, terracaches, navicaches, etc.).

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I honestly don't know anyone that has hidden a cache and then gone out to find it and log it. It would be interesting to read the log for one of those....

I was reading through the logs of a challenging cache and saw that the owner logged it as a find, saying "Found it while checking on it..."

A challenge cache is in that gray zone. The point is to "find" a cache in every county, state or whatever.

 

It wasn't a challenge cache (like a DeLorme), but a challenging one, as in difficult to find.

It wouldn't be challenging if you knew where the cache was. A puzzle wouldn't be challenging if you knew how to solve it. A multi wouldn't be challenging if you knew where all the waypoints were. The game is about finding. This is why challenge caches are different IMHO. To complete a 50 state challenge cache, you have to "find" a cache in each of the 50 states. You wouldn't know where any of them were. If there wasn't a final for a 50 state cache then everyone in the country could do the same challenge cache. This would actually be cool. :anitongue: Edited by TrailGators
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