Jump to content

unacceptable cache description


Followers 7

Recommended Posts

Ok... im fustrated... placed a cache for the AGT series in our area. Had quiet a time getting my discription cleared by the reveiwer because i stated "support our troops". over several emails and lots of changes, i got it cleared for service... unreluctantly removing my wording.

 

a few months go by tons of cachers comments in appreciation to my caches and now i am being re- reviewed again asking me to take out any/all wording relating to the american legion and its history.. (site which cache is located).. this will leave almost no description. This issue came up after i had ONE cacher tell me my cache was lame and a poor excuse for "thanking a vet". (pghlooking)

 

so i looked up keyword... legion on geocache and found three pages of american legion caches and several worded EXACTLY like mine... Why is mine so targeted? one trouble making cacher? so if i dont take it out within 24 hrs.. i will have my cache pulled. I have been a long time member but am ready to PULL my membership over this..

 

I think this is crap! im not supporting any agenda, or even suggesting anyone joins the legion.. Just tring to honor my two children serving. my cache is gc16hm9 sibling soldiers II.

 

Can anyone help me?

Link to comment

...I think this is crap!...

 

If this is AGT-Crawford-#12 Sibling Soldiers II then I have to agree. We all have personalities. We all have our own view of the world and it's entirly ok if that bleeds into our caches. Actually it should lest they all resemble each other. Then finding caches would be as exciting as a can of Pringles. I can't see anything wrong with the cache as it stands. However other than saying "looks good" I can't do anything but give you my support.

 

Nothing changes if it's Sibling Soldiers.

Link to comment
Sibling Soldiers II This is a easy dash and cache located at Meadville's American Legion 111. Both of my children are currently serving in the U.S. Army and this is a tribute to them, their bravery and sevice to our country. I would like to thank all those who served before, currently serving and those who will serve in the future. God's speed to you! Thank-you for our FREEDOM! The American Legion was chartered by Congress in 1919 as a patriotic, mutual-help, war-time veterans organization. A community-service organization which now numbers nearly 3 million members -- men and women -- in nearly 15,000 American Legion Posts worldwide. These Posts are organized into 55 Departments -- one each for the 50 states, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, France, Mexico, and the Philippines.

 

Is this the passage that they want edited???

 

I see no agenda - political or otherwise. Just you expressing your thoughts and feelings toward your children and what they are doing.

 

I see nothing wrong here either - can you pin down what exactly has been asked of you??

Link to comment

this is the section the reviewer wants deleted:

 

The text portion that needs to be removed is, "I would like to thank all those who served before, currently serving and those who will serve in the future. God's speed to you! Thank-you for our FREEDOM! The American Legion was chartered by Congress in 1919 as a patriotic, mutual-help, war-time veterans organization. A community-service organization which now numbers nearly 3 million members -- men and women -- in nearly 15,000 American Legion Posts worldwide. These Posts are organized into 55 Departments -- one each for the 50 states, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, France, Mexico, and the Philippines."

Link to comment

I see nothing wrong at all with supporting our fighting men and women in this country. Regardless of the wars they fight and the political junk that causes them they are our protectors. It's no different than any cache dedicated to the police, fire departments, or other similar types. Personal opinion as to whether or not a cache is acceptable to a finder as a suitable or worthy cache should be their opinion only and have no bearing on it's placement or description. Otherwise, they had better put a "No military" clause to the rules and restrictions for placing a cache. If not it allows too much subjectivity for the reviewer in my opinion.

Link to comment

this is the section the reviewer wants deleted:

 

The text portion that needs to be removed is, "I would like to thank all those who served before, currently serving and those who will serve in the future. God's speed to you! Thank-you for our FREEDOM! The American Legion was chartered by Congress in 1919 as a patriotic, mutual-help, war-time veterans organization. A community-service organization which now numbers nearly 3 million members -- men and women -- in nearly 15,000 American Legion Posts worldwide. These Posts are organized into 55 Departments -- one each for the 50 states, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, France, Mexico, and the Philippines."

Is there an explaination from the reviewer as to why???

.

.

.

You have every right to ask why he/she wants it removed...and the reviewer should not have a problem with letting you know why.

Link to comment

Thanks guys, i need the support.. i really dont see what is wrong with this cache discription either... i really beleive it has more to do w/ a cacher starting trouble... here i thought us "cachers" were wholesome folks.. but now i know any jerk can do this... i probably shouldnt of responded to pghlooking's log, but i have a passion for my cache and my children.... just to fill you in... here are a copy of the coorispondance.... you be the judge..

 

Log left by pghlooking:

 

Third of six caches needed in Crawford County. I am sorry but this is not what I expected when I read about the GeoTrails. Hiding a cache like this is not promoting anything about the Allegheny National Forest Region. This is nothing more than a cache and dash for numbers. A rule of thumb should be if you can see the container driving by at 40 MPH, you should rethink your hide. Signed the log, but left wanting alot more.

 

My response to him:

 

pglooking,

I usually dont respond to many of the cachers who found my AGT cache "sibling soldiers II" But yours, i cant resist. I am sorry the Allegheny GeoTrail (AGT's) are not what you expected as far as showing off the Alleghenies. Im sure the other Crawford Agt's you found in Crawford were as disappointing IF NOT more. Please reread the object of the agt cache discription. .........Allegheny GeoTrail (AGT), a publicly funded project designed to promote a pleasant and positive experience and image of the Allegheny National Forest region and its gateway communities. The AGT utilizes the growing interest in geocaching to assist both residents and visitors to the area in learning more about the unique attractions in the ten participating counties....... Im sorry that when i decided to dedicate my cache to my son and daughter both serving in the army for your country.. you will never convince me it wasnt a good thing to do... Im sorry that Crawford counties largest city... Meadville and our American Legion is not your ideal of a pilliar of my patriotic community that matters to you.. It does me, the patrions at the legion and to my kids who when they get a chance to come home from iraq enjoy checking on their cache.. maybe you should read the logs on my cache for those who appreciated an easy find.. just maybe that handicap vet appreciated a handicap accessable cache.;. if you saw it at 40 mph.. then slow heck down! I hope the rest of your Agt adventures are more enjoyable.

THANKS FOR YOU COMMENT!

 

ARMY MOM AKA

SEEDPICKER

 

Pghlookings response to my email:

 

Wow. I guess you are not use to honest feedback. Placing a cache as a tribute does not mean it has to be lame. This was easily the worst of all the caches we found. Sorry but that is just my unsweetened opinion. I like how you tried to put the whole tribute to vets spin on it. Let me inform you as an Iraq war veteran myself, yeah bet you didn't know that, I am not in the least bit honored by something placed in this manner. Lame is lame no matter how you cut it. I am familiar with the entire AGT and what it is about. I am disappointed that it does not promote anything about the trails or the area. An ammo can thrown under the corner of a building is not caching and doesn't promote anything but people chasing numbers and encourage others to hide lame caches. If you truly want to honor someone, then put forth a little effort and hide a cache in a respectful manner. Just dumping an ammo can under that walkway is nothing but lazy. I don't want to hear about the handicachers because last I checked they weren't asking for handouts either. No matter how you cut it, it was a lame lazy placement and you sound like someone trying to justify it. Reading other people's logs does nothing because people generally are too nice to be honest. Do all of us the honorable thing and upgrade your hide. Do something unique or do something better. Don't hide lame under the guise of tribute. Is this really what you want outsiders to see your cache for?

 

Jim

"pghlooking"

 

didnt want to get into this anymore so i shrugged it off and did my thing and ignored his ignorance... then very next week I now have this email from Groundspeak:

 

Hi,

 

I been asked to re-review the text of your cache AGT-Crawford-#12 Sibling Soldiers II. I have also asked geocaching.com for assistance and input. Your cache page needs to be revised to remove text that appears to promote an agenda.

 

The text portion that needs to be removed is, "I would like to thank all those who served before, currently serving and those who will serve in the future. God's speed to you! Thank-you for our FREEDOM! The American Legion was chartered by Congress in 1919 as a patriotic, mutual-help, war-time veterans organization. A community-service organization which now numbers nearly 3 million members -- men and women -- in nearly 15,000 American Legion Posts worldwide. These Posts are organized into 55 Departments -- one each for the 50 states, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, France, Mexico, and the Philippines."

 

Please revise the page as soon as possible. I will check back to review the changes.

 

Thanks for your understanding,

Mr. Ollivander

Volunteer Geocaching.com Cache Reviewer

 

an---

 

Hi,

 

I've deleted your reviewer note response. This discussion should be carried through e-mails since the cache has already been published.

 

My e-mail to you was generated by a request to re-review the cache description page. That request came from another cacher and another reviewer. It has nothing to do with the e-mails and discussions you posted between you and another cacher. When I received the request, I asked Groundspeak to review the page as well. My comments to you regarding text to remove came directly from Groundspeak. I am a reviewer and I work with guidelines. Occasionally Groundspeak offers a different view of the Guidelines than I may have taken. When that happens, I must act to resolve the difference.

 

At this time I have a timetable I must follow related to your cache. I am to wait 48 hours from my first e-mail for your page to be changed. If it is not changed at the point, I am to disable the cache. If you still don't take action at that point, I am required to archive your page. I want to see your cache continue to be posted, but to do so, the page text needs to be changed.

 

Please do not post reviewer notes to the page. I can be contacted through the e-mail with my reviewer account or I can be contacted through <<removed by moderator>>.

 

Regards,

Mr. Ollivander

 

 

so if this really is an agenda why is it that caches like CG18VP6 and GC12F5J ok??????? or is this a personal issue?

 

The things i get into without tring... ugh

Edited by Moose Mob
Link to comment

I'm not sure why anyone would be offended by that section of text in any way. Is there any explanation for why "they" want it removed? The reference to God? The reference to the military? The history of the Legion? None of it seems to be in the least bit offensive, commercial, or even politically biased to me. Can you possibly reprint the entire email so we can try to understand the motive of the reviewer/Groundspeak better?

 

Ok...you publlished the entire exchange while I was typing! So I've edited it to add:

 

I still don't see anything wrong with the cache description as stands. We have found numerous caches at military memorials, military equipment, and VFW/Legion halls. You are entitled to your opinion...you're not asking for money, for people to write to their congressman, or for people to do anything to promote or protest the war. Maybe I'm missing something here, but I can't imagine why anyone would find your cache description inappropriate!

Edited by whistler & co.
Link to comment

I also didn't see anything wrong except for political correctness run amonk. You have means to fight this. Here is guidence from Geocaching.com listing Guidelines:

If, after exchanging emails with the reviewer, you still feel your cache has been misjudged, your next option is to ask the volunteer to post the cache for all of the reviewers to see in their private discussion forum. Sometimes a second opinion from someone else who has seen a similar situation can help in suggesting a way for the cache to be published. Next, you should feel free to post a message in the “Geocaching Topics” section of the Groundspeak Forums to see what the geocaching community thinks. If the majority believes that it should be published, then Groundspeak administrators and volunteers may review the submission and your cache may be unarchived. Finally, if you believe that the reviewer has acted inappropriately, you may send an e-mail with complete details, waypoint name (GC****) and a link to the cache, to Groundspeak’s special address for this purpose: appeals@geocaching.com.

You may need to appeal.

Link to comment

After looking at the actual page in question I'm still pressed to find anything offensive or pressing any agenda. Funny, I thought liberals, conservatives, Republicans, Democrats, Independents, could equally support the troops considering a soldier represents no political leaning, only the status of protector. Can't seem to find one mention of a speed limit clause in any of the rules or restrictions of placing a cache either.

 

This certainly puts two individuals in a different light that I previously viewed them. I certainly will take this event into consideration in future dealings.

Edited by Sileny Jizda
Link to comment

LOL!!! Thanks from the bottom of my heart guys... I really needed this support, This cache and what it represents to me..really means alot!! gives me some hope ... I have called Groundspeak via phone and its in their hands now???? Just not sure how it will end...

Link to comment

Its not that the passage is offensive. It's not political correctness run amok. It's just that the reviewer felt that the cache was promoting an agenda. That isn't allowed, no matter how worthy the agenda is. Of course there is nothing wrong at all with supporting our fighting men and women in this country, but a cache listing is not the place to do it.

 

The thing is that if you allow one worthy agenda, the next person comes along with his worthy agenda. Then you get into a debate as to what is worthy. I know most Americans support our men and women in uniform, but there are some who don't. What if they want equal time and try to publish a cache that is critical of the troops?

 

I agree with the listing guidelines. Let's keep this a light and fun game and keep all agendas out of it. If you want to declare your support for the troops, put a bumper sticker on your car, a sign on your lawn, donate money to a charity that cares for the families of our fallen heroes. Whatever. There are many ways to demonstrate your support outside of a geocache listing.

 

Not a getting started issue so moving to the general forum

 

Link to comment

Its not that the passage is offensive. It's not political correctness run amok. It's just that the reviewer felt that the cache was promoting an agenda. That isn't allowed, no matter how worthy the agenda is. Of course there is nothing wrong at all with supporting our fighting men and women in this country, but a cache listing is not the place to do it.

Not a getting started issue so moving to the general forum

 

 

I did a keyword search for "troops" and counted about 27 "Support our Troops" caches. I did another for "God bless" and found about ten "God Bless America'" caches. I found four "Breast Cancer Awareness" caches listed. In light of that, I have to wonder if this cache is being singled out because of a personal "agenda."

 

Note: I only choose those topics because they came to mind quickly...I have no political motives for singling them out! In my opinion, all of the abovementioned ideas are fine as cache themes.

Link to comment

This should be handled via communication with TPTB. Email the appeals@ address and ask if some middle ground can be found.

 

<Edited to make it clear that the correct email address is the appeals one, not the contact one.>

Edited by sbell111
Link to comment

Its not that the passage is offensive. It's not political correctness run amok. It's just that the reviewer felt that the cache was promoting an agenda. That isn't allowed, no matter how worthy the agenda is. Of course there is nothing wrong at all with supporting our fighting men and women in this country, but a cache listing is not the place to do it.

 

The thing is that if you allow one worthy agenda, the next person comes along with his worthy agenda. Then you get into a debate as to what is worthy. I know most Americans support our men and women in uniform, but there are some who don't. What if they want equal time and try to publish a cache that is critical of the troops?

 

I agree with the listing guidelines. Let's keep this a light and fun game and keep all agendas out of it. If you want to declare your support for the troops, put a bumper sticker on your car, a sign on your lawn, donate money to a charity that cares for the families of our fallen heroes. Whatever. There are many ways to demonstrate your support outside of a geocache listing.

 

Not a getting started issue so moving to the general forum

 

ok....so what exactly do you see as the "agenda"??

 

I can't see it.

Link to comment

Its not that the passage is offensive. It's not political correctness run amok. It's just that the reviewer felt that the cache was promoting an agenda. That isn't allowed, no matter how worthy the agenda is. Of course there is nothing wrong at all with supporting our fighting men and women in this country, but a cache listing is not the place to do it.

 

The thing is that if you allow one worthy agenda, the next person comes along with his worthy agenda. Then you get into a debate as to what is worthy. I know most Americans support our men and women in uniform, but there are some who don't. What if they want equal time and try to publish a cache that is critical of the troops?

 

I agree with the listing guidelines. Let's keep this a light and fun game and keep all agendas out of it. If you want to declare your support for the troops, put a bumper sticker on your car, a sign on your lawn, donate money to a charity that cares for the families of our fallen heroes. Whatever. There are many ways to demonstrate your support outside of a geocache listing.

 

Let me come from another point of view. I neither support our activities in Iraq nor the reasons we are there. (I will not debate or explain that here in this thread beyond the above comment).

 

I also have read this thread, the page itself, as well as SEVERAL other pages with similar wording. The only agenda I see there is "Hey, I am proud of what my kids are doing." There is/was a similar cache posted by a friend of mine in Chicago called "Yay David" (muggled recently after three years) placed to recognized his son attaining the rank of Eagle. I have several other recent examples as well of pride in kids and even one or two regarding pets. I don't see any difference nor any issue.

 

I realize that other caches can and do not set precedence, but lets have some common sense. To the OP, to keep the cache up consider re-wording everything after "God's speed" to just facts without the thank you tone. I know, it's wrong, but let's keep the cache in play. Also, my suggestion, "God's speed" may be sending up a flag or two. To be PC, consider removing it from your money as well.

 

The only agenda that there appears to be in play is that of the complaining cacher.

 

Groundspeak: I know you guys are trying to keep a rather delicate balance among your users, but IMHO, this does require a manual review and, I would suggest, solicitation from other reviewers and moderators on their opinions. This is within the guidelines and I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone that would admit to being offended by someone saying "thank you".

Link to comment

Guess I'm not clear on what the problem is...

I don't see any "agenda" relating to this cache.

Appears to be a cache showing the love and pride of the CO towards family members overseas, who happened to have a group of vets help her "hide" her cache in a public area of property.

 

As a veteran, I'm happy to see someone realize what the services are doing/have done for our great country.

 

We have a many-page post on "How did you serve", which members of Groundspeak have added THEIR personal imput.

 

Odd that over 150 (+ One hundred and fifty) visitors to the cache said, "Thanks!" , "God bless" and "Hope your family is okay", with only 1 (ONE) dissenter.

 

Cache safe.

Link to comment

...The things i get into without tring... ugh

 

I'm scratching my head at that log. Everone has their moment. That must have been one of theirs.

 

As for the reviewer, this site and it's reviewers need to be mindful that when they start asserting control over caches as an owner would they are also assuming ownership responsiblity. This site has made it very clear that they don't want to do that. However over time their actions keep creeping into a broader pattern of control over more and more aspects of a cache. At some point they will breach the line and open themselves up to the very thing they are rightfully wishing to avoid.

Link to comment

As a forum moderator and site owner myself I'm actually surprised this information is allowed to be left public.

 

Email is intended to be confidential information and blatantly posting that information on a public forum without consent is just inconsiderate.

 

That said, I don't see anything 'wrong' with the cache description either but that is for the reviewer to decide, not us.

 

Do what you must, but please keep the private details between those directly involved unless you have their permission to make it public.

 

Just my thoughts on this.

Link to comment

...It's just that the reviewer felt that the cache was promoting an agenda. That isn't allowed, no matter how worthy the agenda is....

 

I really don't want reviewers 'feeling' on the issue to decide. Either it's an agenda wtih a simple bright line test or it's not. This reviewer did take it to the next level of authority because of their reasonable doubt. If they had a reasonable doubt they also could have left the cache alone.

Link to comment

...My e-mail to you was generated by a request to re-review the cache description page. That request came from another cacher and another reviewer. It has nothing to do with the e-mails and discussions you posted between you and another cacher. When I received the request, I asked Groundspeak to review the page as well. My comments to you regarding text to remove came directly from Groundspeak. I am a reviewer and I work with guidelines. Occasionally Groundspeak offers a different view of the Guidelines than I may have taken. When that happens, I must act to resolve the difference....

 

Two things worth commenting on here.

 

First, the reviewer looks like they are caught between a rock and a hard place. Keep that in mind as this plays out. Second the other cacher should not be in the business of second guessing the cache and should not have asked for it to be re-reviewed. That's bunk. If the cache is a clear and present problem then yes absolutely solve the problem ASAP. That's not the case here. It's a cacher's own interpretation of the rules not agreeing with the original reviewer and cache owners interpretation and so they called in the big guns. If we caching public were good at interpeting the rules we would not argue about them in the forums. The forums would be happy happy joy joy.

Link to comment

A Newbie question here:

 

I have moved Diabetes travel bugs listed at Groundspeak. Now I think trying to cure diabetes is a worthwhile goal, but isn't that an agenda as well?

 

We're talking caches. There are no restrictions on travel bugs with agendas.

Link to comment

A Newbie question here:

 

I have moved Diabetes travel bugs listed at Groundspeak. Now I think trying to cure diabetes is a worthwhile goal, but isn't that an agenda as well?

That's because Travel Bugs can have agendas and be commercial (i.e. Jeeps). Geocache pages are a different story.

Link to comment

A Newbie question here:

 

I have moved Diabetes travel bugs listed at Groundspeak. Now I think trying to cure diabetes is a worthwhile goal, but isn't that an agenda as well?

 

Good point...just as with the numerous examples of Support our Troops, God Bless America, and Breast Cancer Awareness caches I referred to above, it (the Diabetes Awareness TB) is indeed a worthy "agenda"! Sort of like the Jeep TB's . Oops...I guess they have more of a commercial agenda (promoting the fun you can have in a Jeep while exploring the great outdoors, that is.).

 

My bad...I guess commercialism is OK with TB's. :D

Edited by whistler & co.
Link to comment

A Newbie question here:

 

I have moved Diabetes travel bugs listed at Groundspeak. Now I think trying to cure diabetes is a worthwhile goal, but isn't that an agenda as well?

 

Yes. Enforcing agendy issues with Travel bugs would require far more volunteers than they have now. Plus that would get directly in the way of making money to fund this site. That may or may not have anything to do with why they don't have regs on TB agendas. Still it's flat out not as practical to enforce travel bug agenda rules as cache agenda rules.

 

Also keep in mind that the act of placing a cache is an agenda. You want to bring someone to that spot. The real issue when it comesto agenda is where the line is. This site has made it clear that there is one. We need to understand it.

Edited by Renegade Knight
Link to comment

Back to the cache---

 

I can't see how the description promotes some sort of "agenda" other than saying thanks to the millions of people that have served in the Armed Forces of the United States.

 

As one of those Veterans, I am insulted that any Reviewer would think that an agenda is being promoted.

 

Let the cache stand.

 

Shop99er

Mark

USN 1974-1982

Link to comment

A Newbie question here:

 

I have moved Diabetes travel bugs listed at Groundspeak. Now I think trying to cure diabetes is a worthwhile goal, but isn't that an agenda as well?

Don't cloud the issue with irrelevelant comments. First of all the no agendas requirements applies to listing caches. It is much easier to spend your money on a travel bug tag or coin and then used the tracking page to promote an agenda. There is no review of travel bug tracking pages so you can write anything you want on it. If someone complains then TPTB might ask you to change the page or risk it being archived. Second, Groundspeak can make exceptions to any guidelines. Groundspeak decided to support the Unite For Diabetes awareness campaign. This is Groundspeak deciding to promote an agenda not Groundspeak allowing anyone to promote any agenda they like on the Geocaching.com website.

 

Regarding the cache in question. I am really sorry that there seems to be two issues and that there might be some connection between them.

 

Apparently one cacher decided to use the cache page to complain about what they felt is a lame cache. I suspect that many other cachers enjoyed this cache. It may be that one cacher felt that because it was an AGT cache it should involve a hike or something. I can't find any requirement that an AGT cache has to meet beyond the Geocaching.com guidelines. It is fine for the cacher to post that he was disappointed in the cache. You don't have to like every cache you found. Were it my cache, I would have just left his log stand with no comment.

 

The second problem is the issue of whether or not the cache promotes an agenda. I suppose that in thanking "all those who served before, currently serving and those who will serve in the future. God's speed to you! Thank-you for our FREEDOM! " this cache is promoting an agenda. However, there are many caches that wish to thank or support our troops. This particular "agenda" is usually not considered something that would result in a cache being denied. I am concerned that some cacher asked that this cache be re-reviewed for violating the guidelines. If it turns out to be the same cacher who complained that this is a lame cache, I say "shame on you". Using the guidelines this way as thinly veiled attempt to get a cache you did not like archived is despicable and stupid as well. Would this cache be any less lame if the cache owner simply changed the text to remove the references to the American Legion or the Thank You to the soldiers? What are you really hoping to accomplish?

Edited by tozainamboku
Link to comment

I am a Veteran, and I am proud of my service, as well as the service of others. Any time a local cache comes out in tribute to our Veterans, I am there hunting for it. The vast majority of these have been film canisters and hide-a-keys. You used an ammo can, for which you should get bonus kudos. I hope you are willing to fight the good fight and keep this cache alive. Just please, follow Groundspeak's rules for appealing what you see as a bad decision. Going off half cocked can cause those in the upper echelon to frown upon your struggles.

 

In my opinion, this whole thing is one giant contradiction. Someone with way too much PC in their bloodstream is pushing an agenda, and they've targeted your cache, claiming that you saying "Thank You" is an agenda. Sadly, whoever they approached agreed. I'm wondering if they are buddies, or if they just share their PC agenda?

Link to comment

Cache is placed stating, my kid plays soccer and I admire him for his hard work. Thanks to all the soccer players and all the soccer coaches who work so hard with the players.

 

Finder comes along and doesn't like cache, maybe they were molested by a soccer coach, maybe they were denied a spot on the team and still hold a grudge etc, etc.

 

Before long we can only place caches in the middle of a field with the description of "heres a cache, go find".

 

About the only thing I would add is, "I understand that there are some who don't agree with any wars but that is not what this is about, this is about respecting those who are willing to risk everything for others."

Link to comment

 

As one of those Veterans, I am insulted that any Reviewer would think that an agenda is being promoted.

 

 

Ditto

 

You make him change this cache then you would have to do the same with any cache that mentions anything related to the real world. There is no agenda in his cache listing. The reviewer needs to get a life. Oh ya, get rid of all CITO events they have a agenda, cleaning up the trash in our lands, this could go on and on. If this gets cache is forrced to change you are opening a door to tons of caches all ready up and running having to be deleted.

Edited by Clarkbowman
Link to comment

* Shakes head in disbelief*

 

You know, I've actually read this whole thread - and even when and looked at the cache page.

I say TPTB should let it be. The cache page is fine.

 

My personal (and my nation's) opinion on matters of war are a little different that your's (the cache owner's) and your country's.

 

However, what I see here a person having a little pride in her children, her nation, and the intentions of the particular trail that her cache is on. If I were to come to the USA caching, I would EXPECT to see caches like this that reflect the character of your nation and your people. I'm sure that that big wall (sorry I don't know the correct name of it ) that has alot of veterans names on it and the flame burning, is a cache or waymark of some kind, for example?????

 

So I say - let it be.

 

Annie

Link to comment

My wife has placed a cache that is dedicated to her mom....someone who is battling cancer.

 

It was originally stocked with all the pink items she could find (for cancer awareness).

 

Does that mean it should be pulled? What if a cancer-survivor didn't like the cache. THEN would it be pulled.

 

 

Why IS this guy being singled out? Based on this action, a good number of caches would need to be pulled to be consistent. This just doesn't sound right....

Link to comment

And this illustrates very well the problems with Groundspeak(a for profit business, of which WE are all customers) relying so heavily on volunteer reviewers and moderators. It is starting to appear that some of them mey be promoting THEIR OWN agendas by what they allow or do not allow. If this Cache is "promoting an Agenda" then so is every Cache related to Scouting, Jeep TBs, Diabetes TBs(never mind those two since they make money off of them) and any Cache at any War Memorial, oh and not to mention Earthcaches, and the whole C.I.T.O thing?

 

Look, I mean no disrespect to anyone, but there needs to be more consistancy in the enforcement of guidelines.

Edited by WRITE SHOP ROBERT
Link to comment

* Shakes head in disbelief*

 

You know, I've actually read this whole thread - and even when and looked at the cache page.

I say TPTB should let it be. The cache page is fine.

 

My personal (and my nation's) opinion on matters of war are a little different that your's (the cache owner's) and your country's.

 

However, what I see here a person having a little pride in her children, her nation, and the intentions of the particular trail that her cache is on. If I were to come to the USA caching, I would EXPECT to see caches like this that reflect the character of your nation and your people. I'm sure that that big wall (sorry I don't know the correct name of it ) that has alot of veterans names on it and the flame burning, is a cache or waymark of some kind, for example?????

 

So I say - let it be.

 

Annie

That's the Vietnam War Memorial I think.

Link to comment

 

so if this really is an agenda why is it that caches like CG18VP6 and GC12F5J ok??????? or is this a personal issue?

 

The things i get into without tring... ugh

 

Speaking of personal issue, I believe it's totally inappropriate (and against forum guidelines, I'm rather sure) to be posting someone's email to you in the forums, as well as yours to them, not that you didn't give yourself permission to post your own here. :D

 

Personally, I'd go with the appeals process, and not hack this whole thing out in the forums. I'm of the opinion there was an agenda here, as close to the heart as it is to many Americans. And, while slipping on my asbestos suit, I should mention I'm a 22 year (now retired) Army Vet. :D

Link to comment

This should be handled via communication with TPTB. Email the contact@ address and ask if some middle ground can be found.

I can't agree with that completely. These discussions do not need to be kept in the closet. Other Cachers need to know what will and will not be accepted, and if the discussion is handled only through the Hider and the Reviewer/Groundspeak then no one else will ever know what the limits are, thus allowing Groundspeak/Reviewers/Moderators to quietly promote their OWN AGENDAS by keeping the discussions out of the public eye.

Link to comment
Speaking of personal issue, I believe it's totally inappropriate (and against forum guidelines, I'm rather sure) to be posting someone's email to you in the forums, as well as yours to them, not that you didn't give yourself permission to post your own here. :D
I don't think so. IF a reviewer sends an email regarding a specific cache, he/she is aware that the issue may end up being taken to the forums. At such time, the communication regarding the issue will be relevent to the thread and should be included in the thread.

 

I think that it's important to remember that an email from a reviewer about a cache is not personal correspondence, it's business correspondence (even though their pay stinks).

Edited by sbell111
Link to comment

This should be handled via communication with TPTB. Email the contact@ address and ask if some middle ground can be found.

I can't agree with that completely. These discussions do not need to be kept in the closet. Other Cachers need to know what will and will not be accepted, and if the discussion is handled only through the Hider and the Reviewer/Groundspeak then no one else will ever know what the limits are, thus allowing Groundspeak/Reviewers/Moderators to quietly promote their OWN AGENDAS by keeping the discussions out of the public eye.

I'm not sure, but I believe that the official process is:

  1. Reviewer
  2. TPTB at appeals@geocaching.com
  3. Forums

Edited by sbell111
Link to comment

This should be handled via communication with TPTB. Email the contact@ address and ask if some middle ground can be found.

I can't agree with that completely. These discussions do not need to be kept in the closet. Other Cachers need to know what will and will not be accepted, and if the discussion is handled only through the Hider and the Reviewer/Groundspeak then no one else will ever know what the limits are, thus allowing Groundspeak/Reviewers/Moderators to quietly promote their OWN AGENDAS by keeping the discussions out of the public eye.

I'm not sure, but I believe that the official process is:

  1. Reviewer
  2. TPTB
  3. Forums

 

I'm not sure on the official process either, but all three are now involved, so I guess it's all good.

 

I feel that since the cache was already published and then seems to have become a problem, the request to change it after the fact should have come directly from Groundspeak and bypassed the Reviewer at that stage.

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Followers 7
×
×
  • Create New...