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unacceptable cache description


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Because someone gives resistance does not automatically place them in the wrong. If that were the case there would be an awful lot of innocent people in jails these days. Good thing to know you were not around during the founding of this county with those viewpoints. We'd all be speaking British.

 

You're comparing clams and oysters. We're not talking criminal prosecutions and oppressive governments, it's a flippin' geocache. If someone is willing to expend so much effort over something so inconsequential, it tells me that there is probably an agenda in there.

Since she was asked to change the page prior to publication, and she complied, she may just be fed up. If there is any agenda at this point I would suspect it has more to do with trying to get a fair shake than with whatever the heck the cache page was supposed to be promoting.

 

She got a fair shake. She was told her cache did not conform to the guidelines. Change the page and move on. It's a geocache, not the Magna Carta.

Actually, she was told her cache did not conform. She made the necessary change. It was published. SIX MONTHS later, someone decided it all of the sudden didn't conform? What changed?

 

My guess...THE GUIDELINES!!! About 2-3 months ago or less....you know, about the same time the commercial guidelines changed??

 

I could be wrong though...

Hundreds, or even tens of thousands of caches violate the current guidelines. They are usually grandfathered and allowed to remain active. Why is thisone different?

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Then can you do the same for this thread...lock it and archive it??

 

Hey..where did the mod's post go???

 

Strange things happen in here , Even the OP's the 8th post was edited by Moose Mob :) Strange

Edited by USA 45
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Then can you do the same for this thread...lock it and archive it??

 

Hey..where did the mod's post go???

 

Strange things happen in here , Even the OP's first post was edited by Moose Mob :) Strange

 

Lets not make stuff up now.

OOOPPPS Im sorry it was the 8th post,

Edited by USA 45
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It still comes down to a simple concept. Groundspeak is choosing what agendas to allow, and what ones to not allow. This is not a good way to run a business. Obviously, if there is this much discussion about it, there is a relatively serious issue.

 

I have been accused of continuing to drag this on. I am not choosing to do this out of trying to cause problems. I see a serious issue, and several moderators and moderator/reviewers have been evasive in answering the simple question of what constitutes a legitimate agenda. Obviously, taking someone somewhere to find a box is a legit agenda. Taking someone somewhere to see something while they're looking for the box... depends apparently on what the reviewers feel like allowing that day. Mountains? Plains? Wal-Mart Parking lot? Stream bed? Cracker Barrel restaurant front porch? My front yard? The back of a guardrail? The front of an American Legion? A boy scout camp?

 

In the past, this site's response on several issues has been "throw them all out because we don't like having to come up with clear guidelines." First case - Virtuals (see "Wow factor" in old threads). Second case - perceived agendas. If you can't clearly define something, you simply throw out the baby with the bathwater. Why not simply be clear about what we can and cannot do, instead of having some people get away with things that are clearly against the "guidelines" (or rules, or whatever other synonym we have this week/post/thread), and shutting down others where, if there is a violation, it is so minor, so innocuous, that most people can't even find it!

 

Seriously - we need better guidelines than "it depends". It's that simple. All we want is a clear statement of what is allowed and what isn't. How hard can that be? It is a simple question - please come up with some kind of a simple response which is more clear than "it depends" (in other words, "We'll pick and choose what we want, when we want, and how we want, with no apparent consistency, but definitely some apparent agenda behind the scenes for what we allow and what we don't.")

 

And apparently several people have dropped out of this discussion not because they chose to - it was brought to my attention that some people have been kicked out for now, either suspended from posting or told not to post on this thread. No, I don't know the whole story - but I know they do this, as I have been told before not to post in a specific discussion, and I have had my posting rights suspended. The excuse always given was "Violation of respect guidelines", but in most cases, my disrespect was directed at rules which were unfair.

 

I would not be surprised if you don't hear from me again after this post, since pointing out that some people are not allowed to post here or have been suspended is probably breaking some rule somewhere. Or maybe it will just be perceived as breaking a rule/guideline, etc... which is worse.

 

As I said above, all I'm asking for is a clear definition. That is all. Please end this debate once and for all, not by kicking people out, but by answering the question which has been asked many times in this thread, and in several others. What is allowed, and what is not, based on this "perceived agenda". I guess you could say I have an agenda here - a clear answer to a simple question.

Edited by FireRef
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Then can you do the same for this thread...lock it and archive it??

 

Hey..where did the mod's post go???

Still here. You blinked. I actually closed it at the same time Quiggle closed the other one. I opened it again.

 

Man In Stripes, I've already addressed your question. Go back and read my Toronto/NHL league post. Considering your avatar, I think you would probably appreciate it.

If you'd point me to said post, I'd be happy to read it. I only read the first couple pages of this thread, then skipped to around page 13 or 14. Wasn't gonna read it all.

 

But I would be interested in reading your post you refer me to if you'd give me a link, or even the post number.

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Actually, she was told her cache did not conform. She made the necessary change. It was published. SIX MONTHS later, someone decided it all of the sudden didn't conform? What changed?

 

Nothing changed.

 

The reviewer made a judgment call when the cache was published based on his/her interpretation of the guidelines. When someone else came across this cache six months later they felt that it crossed the line and reported it. At that time Groundspeak took a look at it for the first time and determined that the section about the American Legion needed to be removed.

 

The key here is that until the cache was reported, Groundspeak had most likely never even seen this cache page. Had they seen it prior to publication those changes would have been requested at that time.

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Actually, she was told her cache did not conform. She made the necessary change. It was published. SIX MONTHS later, someone decided it all of the sudden didn't conform? What changed?

 

Nothing changed.

 

The reviewer made a judgment call when the cache was published based on his/her interpretation of the guidelines. When someone else came across this cache six months later they felt that it crossed the line and reported it. At that time Groundspeak took a look at it for the first time and determined that the section about the American Legion needed to be removed.

 

The key here is that until the cache was reported, Groundspeak had most likely never even seen this cache page. Had they seen it prior to publication those changes would have been requested at that time.

You not only asked for the American Legion portion to be removed, you also asked her to remove the portion thanking the troops. Which part offended Groundspeak, the history of the AL (which is no different than thousands of other caches relating the history of the placement) or her gratitude to the troops?
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:) I now have some time to comment on this issue ....

 

Let me start by cleariying this cache location (AL) really has nothing to do with the cache purppose. It took over a month to post it .. First the location was questioned being right outside an army base,

 

( Which, i have GC152GY Sibling Soldiers 1 behind this army facility) which currently the discription says this...

 

Just a short walk off the road, down a fourwheeler trail on the outside of the US Army Reserve ECS, Cache is outside of the fence. Trail has several mud puddles and a few mosquitos... :-) This is on a slow traffic road so feel free to park off to the side.

 

Sibling Soldiers... This is a tribute to all who Serve. I would like to Thank-You! God's Speed! I have two children, Audrey and Alex, who are now both seving in the US Army. So, i have to say my whole world is changed without them home. It has made me think of all the families out there who have a child, husband, wife or loved ones who are serving. Its not an easy cross to bear sometimes, so my hearts go out to you. Well, my kids helped me obtain military items for this cache. This is a easy find cache located just out side the Keystone Army Reserve ECS base. The cache is in an green ammo box packed w/ Army goodies including an Army T-shirt, military pins, Army keychains, stickers, etc. I would like to ask that you exchange something Army or military and log/share any relationships w/ the military. All Cachers welcome

Thank-you for looking for my cache,

One Proud Army Mom

 

 

This cache was hidden 8/07 two months before sibling soldiers II.. I placed the first out for with my son and when the AGT series came out i quickley prepped a cache for my daughter, too. Thus my Sibling Soldiers... But im sure GC will ax the other cache soon..

 

(yes micheal i know you are reading this..) go ahead and make my day!!!

 

Back to the current casuality...

 

The reveiver and i had several emails regarding the location then the he questioned the clue..( not the title.."support" your Troops... Support being the optinal word for under the foundation/ corner of the building where the cache was hidden... that wasnt permitted, so i tried... The foundation of hope is here.. that was approved and the cache was posted ready for cachers.. A great deal and time was taken to find the right location for this cache and find a place military related. The Legion was what promises to support me while my son and daughter as serving... So YES my caches were explicitly for my children and what they are doing, and what it means to me! The legion which seemed a common community place to put one, and quiet easily found in geosearchs. Heck, please check out my other two caches... I own 4.. I have one called " Hey Abbott"... my maiden name is abbott and my family of long ago reside there... and my fourth cache... Big Brother is watching"" a quick micro at my big brother's home near nashville.. all my caches place represent me, and who i am..

 

Both soon to be axed soon im sure for having an agenda about me.

 

So, Friday afternoon, i get this call from " micheal" the God up there at Geocache head quarters ( appeals department) regarding my Big agenda.. a very grueling long conversation. I was told a lot of things... none which i will beleive are constitutional... LOL Micheal said they(GC) are not goverened by the constitution.. they are a private company... hmmm?

 

I asked for an definishion of " agenda"... promotion or advertising a organization.. was what i got... i wont agree i have an agenda by describing the historical facts regarding any AL, the AL wasnt my title subject, but tring not to BE lame.. i wanted to provide more information since this cache would be certian to have visitors from 10 counties ( which collect AGT coins).

 

After getting No where...

 

i asked how i could word it differently and not lose the essance...

 

Micheal said... I would like to thank all those who served before, currently serving and those who will serve in the future. God's speed to you! Thank-you for our FREEDOM! must all go.. i asked what the agenda was... he said relating to military... he said.. less than 1% of militiary would ever look for or care it said thanks in my cache... i asked if he happen to read the post left by the cachers who found my cache... he said no... it didnt matter what they logged... the majority of logs ARE military or military family..Idot!. i Asked with that... being his opionion, was stating i had an agenda....

 

Micheal told me that GC guideline are flexable... just not in this incident, i guess... oh, but he said, since i mentioned the word "tribute" which was definantley an "agenda" word and he could ax that phrase... he'd would let it go... a fine example of flexable.. when its conveinent, i guess.. hmm? so at this point no fixing this section at this point. I wasnt convinced. I just thought that was one of the first manners a mother teaches her child... please and thankyou... OH...yah Thanks Micheal / GC..

 

Secondly the AL quote required to be moved:

 

A community-service organization which now numbers nearly 3 million members -- men and women -- in nearly 15,000 American Legion Posts worldwide. These Posts are organized into 55 Departments -- one each for the 50 states, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, France, Mexico, and the Philippines. I suggested i would change it and asked if i could change it to..Legion can be found world wide... he said no... no changes/additions... it was an agenda...

 

Course we argued other caches of the same "agenda" he said they havent been properly reviewed.. or complained about.. SO Beware...

 

I asked about the complaintant... of course that is confidential and so is the ""spicific quotable complaint""?? LOL Micheal says I dont have a right to face my accuser or ... and reminded me of the " we dont follow the constitutional laws as a business ... if truely beleive if they have the power to be flexable they would, i feel this is BS simply to appeaze a lame geocacher and reviewer to save face

 

Micheal suggested he change my text on my page for me, or archive it .. i wasnt gonna let someone else change my page under my identity!!! And for gc/ Micheal to label my cache as archived by owner request.. is BS!! I told him to what he had to do! Period!

 

Im not a drama queen , im standing up for something that i beleive is right. Yah i could of deleted what gc requested, but wont complie over such shady conditions!

 

I feel GC is cowardly not to comment on this thread and the issues brought forward in it.. since micheal commented he would be courious to see what i put up here after our conversation... its obvious they are watching, ... behind the veil...??? hmmm??

 

Just too exausted to comment anymore... I just wont feel sorry for standing my ground regarding my passion for my children or our sevicemen and what they have given... so take my "child" or my cache.. you will never take my integrety!

 

Still not sure what to do at this point to revive this cache.. but i havent given up yet...

 

Thanks for all those who commented on this thread...for or against... oh shoot another agenda??!! Please!

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... Micheal said... I would like to thank all those who served before, currently serving and those who will serve in the future. God's speed to you! Thank-you for our FREEDOM! must all go.. i asked what the agenda was... he said relating to military... he said.. less than 1% of militiary would ever look for or care it said thanks in my cache... i asked if he happen to read the post left by the cachers who found my cache... he said no... it didnt matter what they logged... the majority of logs ARE military or military family..Idot!. i Asked with that... being his opionion, was stating i had an agenda....

Don't know how to resolve this... but I have a feeling calling Michael an "idot" after he tried to reach out to you probably won't help! :)

Edited by TheAlabamaRambler
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Actually, she was told her cache did not conform. She made the necessary change. It was published. SIX MONTHS later, someone decided it all of the sudden didn't conform? What changed?

 

Nothing changed.

 

The reviewer made a judgment call when the cache was published based on his/her interpretation of the guidelines. When someone else came across this cache six months later they felt that it crossed the line and reported it. At that time Groundspeak took a look at it for the first time and determined that the section about the American Legion needed to be removed.

 

The key here is that until the cache was reported, Groundspeak had most likely never even seen this cache page. Had they seen it prior to publication those changes would have been requested at that time.

You not only asked for the American Legion portion to be removed, you also asked her to remove the portion thanking the troops. Which part offended Groundspeak, the history of the AL (which is no different than thousands of other caches relating the history of the placement) or her gratitude to the troops?

Assuming the Op's subsequent post is accurate, you had a problem with stating the history of the American Legion AND with her thanking our troops.

 

WHAT THE HE-DOUBLE HOCKEY STICKS is WRONG with thanking our troops, past present, and future????? Our troops may wind up being in the middle of a political agenda, but neither you nor I can accurately determine what is PC. The reality is that no matter how you (or I) may feel about ANY war/firefight/skirmish/police action, these men and women don't care ONE BIT about political agendas. They are there to do a job and they do it proudly. They do it without question. They protect us and they protect our freedoms. Seedpicker didn't ask anyone to support the troops OR the American Legion, but if thanking our brave men and women for dying for us has become an "agenda" then something is seriously wrong.

Edited by Trinity's Crew
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If you'd point me to said post, I'd be happy to read it. I only read the first couple pages of this thread, then skipped to around page 13 or 14. Wasn't gonna read it all.

Ahh. So you just want to be uninformed and just throw out random comments. Do everyone a favor. Either read the topic or stay out of it. We've been round and round enough without you adding to it.

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... Micheal said... I would like to thank all those who served before, currently serving and those who will serve in the future. God's speed to you! Thank-you for our FREEDOM! must all go.. i asked what the agenda was... he said relating to military... he said.. less than 1% of militiary would ever look for or care it said thanks in my cache... i asked if he happen to read the post left by the cachers who found my cache... he said no... it didnt matter what they logged... the majority of logs ARE military or military family..Idot!. i Asked with that... being his opionion, was stating i had an agenda....

Don't know how to resolve this... but I have a feeling calling Michael an "idot" after he tried to reach out to you probably won't help! :)

Why? She didn't call him an idiot. :)

 

To TPTB:

 

This is a test of the emergency joke system. Had this been an actual joke emergency you would have been instructed where to tune in your area to see Larry the cable guy do a commercial with Dan Marino about losing weight through Nutri-System. We now return to your normal angst-filled thread.

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Micheal said... I would like to thank all those who served before, currently serving and those who will serve in the future. God's speed to you! Thank-you for our FREEDOM! must all go.. i asked what the agenda was... he said relating to military... he said.. less than 1% of militiary would ever look for or care it said thanks in my cache... i asked if he happen to read the post left by the cachers who found my cache... he said no... it didnt matter what they logged... the majority of logs ARE military or military family..Idot!. i Asked with that... being his opionion, was stating i had an agenda....

I think we are done here.

 

Now the original poster is calling people who work for Groundspeak names. There is no call for that. This post of yours is also quite a ramble and is exceptionally difficult to read. In addition, we have new people coming into the topic who won't take the time to read it (not just you ManInStripes) so the same arguments are coming up again -- in addition to some of those who keep asking the same questions over and over. The answers have been given by Groundspeak Volunteers. Please read the topic again if you have questions.

 

Putting us all out of our misery... topic closed.

 

Go find some caches. It's more fun.

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