Should you be able to turn your cache "on" and "off"?

[+Machuco]

Recently there has been a cache owner in my area who has turned his cache "off" (disabled) for the winter. I'm assuming that he will turn it back "on" when the weather gets better.

 

I was just wondering if this is a accepted practice or should he just make his cache container "all weather"?

 

I have purposely left my opinion out to try to get other cachers opinions.

[+StarBrand]

I've seen it done here locally for a few caches. All had good reasons - mostly seasonal access issues to the area. Another is disabled each year during hunting season.

 

I have one at 10,800 feet that is buried by 10-15 feet of snow Oct - Early July. I have never disabled it but for all practical purposes - it is not findable for 8 to 10 months a year. Two caches near that one get annually disabled.

[+Machuco]

There are no snow or hunting issues here. Just rain.

[+TrailGators]

I've seen it a couple of times. It really doesn't matter to me because I only download active caches.

Edited October 17, 2007 by TrailGators

[+StarBrand]

Just to be clear ..... -----> I see nothing wrong with seasonal caches if there is a good reason for it.

 

Sounds like you have a case of disable because the winter weather might destroy the container? Doesn't seem like it is a good reason to me. But I could be wrong.

 

Users need to be able to turn caches on and off for many many other legit reasons though.

[+briansnat]

I don't see the problem. I have a cache in an old mine that is closed in the fall in winter due to hibernating bats and I turn it off every Sept and on every April.

[+Machuco]

Can you keep a cache disabled for that long without the reviewers asking questions?

[+StarBrand]

Can you keep a cache disabled for that long without the reviewers asking questions?

Sure - all you need to do is clearly list the reason for it to be disabled for an extended period of time and when it will be back.

[+Ambrosia]

I don't disable my caches that are "inaccessible" in the winter, because I never want to have to guess when it's not cacheable and when it is.....some people are more hardy and want to go after a cache in conditions that others may not. They can tell when it's winter and there's snow on the ground and make the choice.

 

The only cache I disable in the winter is one in a nature preserve, the park is closed from December to March for Bald Eagle nesting. I want to be clear to people that they shouldn't break the rules of the State park.

Edited October 17, 2007 by Ambrosia

[CoyoteRed]

I wholeheartedly agree with disabling a cache during times of the year that it shouldn't be hunted. Briansnat gave a good example. We have two that we disable a couple of weeks a year because a festival comes to the park. The extreme muggle count would jeopardize the hides so they get pulled.

 

Yes, folks should be able to temporarily disable a cache for various reasons including season changes.

[+The Leprechauns]

My most difficult cache hide is located along a nature trail in a long, narrow strip of woods between a townhouse development and an open field. The woods are a haven for deer -- so much so that it's become a problem and they have an annual "deer management program." In 2006, two cachers were scared out of their wits when a bowhunter called down to them from his tree stand close to the first stage of my cache. So, beginning this year I am disabling my cache for the duration of the "deer management program." Here is my disable log for your reading pleasure.

 

While normally the volunteer cache reviewers in this region will place a reminder note on a disabled cache after 2 or 3 months if there's no good reason stated, they'll skip over a cache with a clear explanation. Park closures, construction, hunting seasons and winter/spring floods are among the most common reasons for long-term disablements.

[WhatUpDog]

I don't think I would place a cache in an area that was not available all year long.

[+wimseyguy]

I don't see any problems with this.

There are several caches here that are seasonally disabled. Some are in parks that close for the winter. A few others are along a trail that closes for bald eagle nesting season. The owner's post notes on the page indicating the reason the cache is disabled, and when to expect it to be available again.

 

I filter out disabled caches in my PQ's, so it doesn't affect my cache seeking plans at all.

[+Mule Ears]

Should you be able to turn your cache "on" and "off"?

 

Yes. As stated above, there are some good reasons to seasonally disable a cache, most having to do with wildlife, others with access. Since there's ample evidence that many cachers don't read cache descriptions thoroughly, disabling a cache during eagle nesting season or when the county fair is set up near the cache site is an emphatic way of saying, "Don't hunt this cache when doing so might be a problem."

 

That said, it's possible that some cache owners may overdo it. -Shrug - Their cache, their rules. They have to justify an extended shutdown to the GC volunteers or risk seeing the cache archived.

[+IDLookout]

I don't think I would place a cache in an area that was not available all year long.

 

There could be erosion issues, where during the winter/rainy season the surrounding ground could be damaged. There could also be a wildlife nesting/breeding issue. We have Forest Service gates that are routinely closed for just those purposes here.

[+Zop]

I think what this thread shows is that in some areas, this is perfectly acceptable - providing the climate or environment is one that would prevent access for one reason or another. In Santa Rosa, CA however, our worst weather lasts maybe a week and snow is a once in a decade event that lasts at best a few hours. In this specific case, the cacher Dadfish is questioning has three "Closed for Winter" caches that are in areas fully accessible 24/7/365 rain or shine. I suspect he just doesn't want to deal with maintenaning a poorly crafted hide and being a finder of these hides, I will say he never bothered to read the cache placement guidelines - especially the part about permanence. In MYHO, he's just parking on the spot until he wants to play again.

[+Skytracker]

This is perfectly acceptable and even necessary here. We have a lot of regional parks that are also working farms. Access is open for most of the year, but they get closed for about 2 months during lambing. One such cache is GC80E3, which re-lists this weekend.

 

These parks are great outdoors resources and I think that it would be a great shame not to be able to place caches in them because of a seasonal closure.

[+OienLabs]

Yes!

[+Renegade Knight]

I had one that was "off" during the winter due to the potential for hibernating critters.

 

Yes it should be an owner option.

Edited October 17, 2007 by Renegade Knight

[Luckless]

I have one I've been meaning to place that involves camoflage. I should have hidden it earlier(famous last words). The camoflage will probably rip and tear off if someone tries to pry it from the frozen ground in the winter. The other one (normal, not camoflaged) I have in the area winters through okay. I'd like to hide this one now and just disable it when it gets too frozen until winter, but not sure if I could/should.

Edited October 18, 2007 by Luckless

[+hydnsek]

I don't think I would place a cache in an area that was not available all year long.

Really? Well, in Washington that would eliminate the hundreds of wonderful caches that are placed in our Cascade and Olympic mountain ranges. Prime hiking and climbing areas, but only accessible a few months each year due to winter snowfall. I'd bet the same is true in the Rockies and other mountainous areas.

 

Most of these caches are not disabled in winter (even though they aren't accessible), but some are. Of course, we also have some caches that are primarily accessible by ski or snowshoe (too much brush in summer when the snow is gone).

 

I know of another cache that is, in fact, disabled most of the year, the Huckleberry Patch Geo Cache, and is only activated when the huckleberries are ripe in the Snoqualmie Pass area (Cascades). It's a bit of a local tradition to hit this cache in August when it goes active. Mmmmmm.....

[+Zop]

But is this appropriate in mild climate areas where closure and weather are not an issue?

[+briansnat]

But is this appropriate in mild climate areas where closure and weather are not an issue?

 

Sure, there may be other reasons. Nesting birds for instance.

[+Harry Dolphin]

I had one that I disabled for two months for park reconstruction. Surprisingly, it was still there, when they finished! I did have to move it twenty feet, because it ended up behind a flower garden...

I have one that I will disable for December due to hunting.

But I won't disable any during the winter for snow. There are actually strange people out there who geocache during blizzards! Why deprive them of their fun?

[+wimseyguy]

Would this be a good enough reason for you? The cachers who own them near this sign think so and disable their caches during the appropriate season. This way no one is violating Federal and State law and we get to keep caches on NC Gamelands which offer primo hiking turf that is great for caching.

[+BlueDeuce]

Recently there has been a cache owner in my area who has turned his cache "off" (disabled) for the winter. I'm assuming that he will turn it back "on" when the weather gets better.

 

Yes, there are valid reasons. If the owner didn't make it clear as to why they would do this, did you ask them about it?

 

There are plenty of (sometimes new) cachers who think you can't cache in winter. Maybe they are just trying to do people a favor by keeping them out of a snowy area when really they should just keep it going.

[+IDLookout]

...There are actually strange people out there who geocache during blizzards! Why deprive them of their fun?

 

Exactly. I set Round Top Lookout on Snowshoes.....

Edited October 17, 2007 by IDLookout

[+The Jester]

But is this appropriate in mild climate areas where closure and weather are not an issue?

It's possible he won't be in the area during the winter months, and disabled the caches because he won't be around to maintain them. There have been a couple of 'snowbird' caches around here.

[Neos2]

But is this appropriate in mild climate areas where closure and weather are not an issue?

How can we even begin to guess if it is "appropriate" when we don't even know which caches you are talking about, how they are hidden, or what is in the area? There are any of a multitude of reasons for not wanting traffic to a cache at certain times of the year, as we've already seen in this forum.

 

Did you ask the cache owner why they were doing it? I'd ask them first before I made a big deal out of it. I'm really curious about why you seem so intent there is something "wrong" about the on-hold status. Did you want to put a cache near or were you planning to try to find it "soon" when it was archived; did you want to do one like it?

[+Zop]

Ok... The three caches in question are:

 

GC1510Z

GC12H9Q

GC12E3V

 

All three are 'side of road' hides. Guard rail, mile marker, on ground near sign. With the exception of 1510z, all are high and dry 24X7. Not near sensitive wild life areas, not in areas likely to be closed for longer than a single over-night span, nor are they hides which will stand out in anyone's mind.

 

As you will see, this is not an issue of the owner not being around, seasonal closure or birds nesting. In fact, the same owner has several other hides in the area which he is choosing to maintain even though some are several miles out of the area beyond the three above.

 

His only comment about the reason for disabling these caches is "Closed for winter" Reading the logs for 1510Z, it would appear that the cache is simply not something that can last. Being a finder ot the other two, I can tell you that one is a fairly standard micro while the other is just a peice of paper in a pen.

 

Again, I believe that the practice is perfectly acceptable where necessary due to weather or habitat but not because an owner simply isn't interested in maintaining their caches. If these three, why not the other 12?

 

As for me asking the cache owner, I did speak with the cache owner a while back just before he archived a previous cache (which was in good shape, easy to maintain and even complemented) and he was quite rude and was even insulting and went off about my caches. I would prefer to not even deal with someone like him. Perhaps that is why I am standing up for the other cachers in our area who are questioning his practice.

 

In the case Dadfish brings up, I would say archival would be the appropriate path and would not hesitate to post an SBA.

 

It is good to see all of the positive support for the practice here for the obvious situations where temporarily disabling a cache is waranted.

[+Mule Ears]

Ok... The three caches in question are:

<-snip->

 

I see what you mean. Looking at the owner's profile and other cache placements, there are a few things that stick out. I don't know whether they explain the "closed-for-winter" issue, but they give me the impression that he's unlikely to change his mind about the extended temporary shutdown. SBA if you want a tussle (and probably an enemy); otherwise leave it be.

[+StarBrand]

If his reasoning is to "hold" the spot by disabling the cache I am sure the local reviewer will pick up on what is going on.

[+Team Cotati]

Would this be a good enough reason for you? The cachers who own them near this sign think so and disable their caches during the appropriate season. This way no one is violating Federal and State law and we get to keep caches on NC Gamelands which offer primo hiking turf that is great for caching.

 

No, it wouldn't be good enough unless there was a date range involved. That sign implies 24/7/365 for "some" of the gamelands. When are geocachers allowed in those select gamelands?

Edited October 19, 2007 by Team Cotati

[+IDLookout]

Would this be a good enough reason for you? The cachers who own them near this sign think so and disable their caches during the appropriate season. This way no one is violating Federal and State law and we get to keep caches on NC Gamelands which offer primo hiking turf that is great for caching.

 

No, it wouldn't be good enough unless there was a date range involved. That sign implies 24/7/365 for "some" of the gamelands. When are geocachers allowed in those select gamelands?

 

They are allowed when the areas are open as pointed out on the sign.

 

Or am I missing something?

 

Common sense has to come into play sometimes.

[+Team Cotati]

I had one that I disabled for two months for park reconstruction. Surprisingly, it was still there, when they finished! I did have to move it twenty feet, because it ended up behind a flower garden...

I have one that I will disable for December due to hunting.

But I won't disable any during the winter for snow. There are actually strange people out there who geocache during blizzards! Why deprive them of their fun?

 

I have a cache that I disable every rainy season. There may be people out there who geocache during floods. They'll just have to somehow manage to struggle through rainy season without being able to hunt that particular cache. How 'strange' they might be does not enter into the equation. Life can sometimes be a real witch......can't it?

[+Team Cotati]

Would this be a good enough reason for you? The cachers who own them near this sign think so and disable their caches during the appropriate season. This way no one is violating Federal and State law and we get to keep caches on NC Gamelands which offer primo hiking turf that is great for caching.

 

No, it wouldn't be good enough unless there was a date range involved. That sign implies 24/7/365 for "some" of the gamelands. When are geocachers allowed in those select gamelands?

 

They are allowed when the areas are open as pointed out on the sign.

 

Or am I missing something?

 

Common sense has to come into play sometimes.

 

Oh I see. The cache owners update their cache listings when the select areas are once again "open". Never mind!!

[+IDLookout]

Would this be a good enough reason for you? The cachers who own them near this sign think so and disable their caches during the appropriate season. This way no one is violating Federal and State law and we get to keep caches on NC Gamelands which offer primo hiking turf that is great for caching.

 

No, it wouldn't be good enough unless there was a date range involved. That sign implies 24/7/365 for "some" of the gamelands. When are geocachers allowed in those select gamelands?

 

They are allowed when the areas are open as pointed out on the sign.

 

Or am I missing something?

 

Common sense has to come into play sometimes.

 

Oh I see. The cache owners update their cache listings when the select areas are once again "open". Never mind!!

 

You've got it!

[+Team Cotati]

Would this be a good enough reason for you? The cachers who own them near this sign think so and disable their caches during the appropriate season. This way no one is violating Federal and State law and we get to keep caches on NC Gamelands which offer primo hiking turf that is great for caching.

 

No, it wouldn't be good enough unless there was a date range involved. That sign implies 24/7/365 for "some" of the gamelands. When are geocachers allowed in those select gamelands?

 

They are allowed when the areas are open as pointed out on the sign.

 

Or am I missing something?

 

Common sense has to come into play sometimes.

 

What you might be "missing" is that wrt the activity of geocaching on this property, that sign is an irrelevant piece of tin. Providing not a single piece of information that is helpful to geocachers since they must rely upon the updating of the available "open" areas as posted by the cache owners. Such information will not be known to non-cachers and as non-geocachers it will matter not to them.

 

Geocachers will know in advance which areas are "open" prior to arriving at the location. Whereas the 'general public' will have to be on the aalert for those "closed" signs. Pretty neat when you think about it.

Edited October 19, 2007 by Team Cotati

[+IDLookout]

Would this be a good enough reason for you? The cachers who own them near this sign think so and disable their caches during the appropriate season. This way no one is violating Federal and State law and we get to keep caches on NC Gamelands which offer primo hiking turf that is great for caching.

 

No, it wouldn't be good enough unless there was a date range involved. That sign implies 24/7/365 for "some" of the gamelands. When are geocachers allowed in those select gamelands?

 

They are allowed when the areas are open as pointed out on the sign.

 

Or am I missing something?

 

Common sense has to come into play sometimes.

 

What you might be "missing" is that wrt the activity of geocaching on this property, that sign is an irrelevant piece of tin. Providing not a single piece of information that is helpful to geocachers since they must rely upon the updating of the available "open" areas as posted by the cache owners. Such information will not be known to non-cachers and as non-geocachers it will matter not to them.

 

I don't see it as irrelevant at all. I see Geocaching as a privilege, not a right.

 

Caveat emptor.

[+Machuco]

If his reasoning is to "hold" the spot by disabling the cache I am sure the local reviewer will pick up on what is going on.

 

I certainly hope so!

[+Team Cotati]

Would this be a good enough reason for you? The cachers who own them near this sign think so and disable their caches during the appropriate season. This way no one is violating Federal and State law and we get to keep caches on NC Gamelands which offer primo hiking turf that is great for caching.

 

No, it wouldn't be good enough unless there was a date range involved. That sign implies 24/7/365 for "some" of the gamelands. When are geocachers allowed in those select gamelands?

 

They are allowed when the areas are open as pointed out on the sign.

 

Or am I missing something?

 

Common sense has to come into play sometimes.

 

What you might be "missing" is that wrt the activity of geocaching on this property, that sign is an irrelevant piece of tin. Providing not a single piece of information that is helpful to geocachers since they must rely upon the updating of the available "open" areas as posted by the cache owners. Such information will not be known to non-cachers and as non-geocachers it will matter not to them.

 

I don't see it as irrelevant at all. I see Geocaching as a privilege, not a right.

 

Caveat emptor.

 

And?

[+halffast]

There is a cache not far from me but into Canada that has been dissabled since May of 2006.It was dissabled due to flooding in the area(very good reason)....It must be a really bad flood.See GCVDWC...I have caches that will be buried under many feet of snow but I dont dissable them.Some cachers love to try and find winter caches.I have found a few in the dead of winter.The only time I do dissable them is if they might need maintanance.

[AZcachemeister]

Can you keep a cache disabled for that long without the reviewers asking questions?

Sure - all you need to do is clearly list the reason for it to be disabled for an extended period of time and when it will be back.

 

Not necessarily.

There was a local cache that was disabled due to nearby construction, and the owner clearly stated his reason.

The cache was eventually archived anyway.

Of course, it might get re-instated, but with the recent attitude change on archived caches, a new cache may be required.

[+Alan2]

Disabling or even archiving does not stop you from hunting a cache and finding it and posting it. I've found a couple that were archived (I didn't know about them because somehow my data base for them was not updated). The hiders never actually removed them so when I found them I signed the log books and posted finds on the web. And re-hid the caches for the next guy who didn't update his data base. Now what do you do about that?!?!?

Edited October 21, 2007 by Alan2

[+traildad]

As for not giving a reason, was this note added after the fact?

Going to Temp. archive for Winter, soon!

He put this on all three. Seems kind of odd considering he has many others very close to these that are not "Temp. archived for winter" Is there some reason these should or could not be done when cold? Two of the caches have logs that suggest the wet weather will be a problem. Maybe he agreed.

Edited October 21, 2007 by traildad

[+Zop]

Add GC13937

 

Ok... The three caches in question are:

 

GC1510Z

GC12H9Q

GC12E3V

 

All three are 'side of road' hides. Guard rail, mile marker, on ground near sign. With the exception of 1510z, all are high and dry 24X7. Not near sensitive wild life areas, not in areas likely to be closed for longer than a single over-night span, nor are they hides which will stand out in anyone's mind.

 

As you will see, this is not an issue of the owner not being around, seasonal closure or birds nesting. In fact, the same owner has several other hides in the area which he is choosing to maintain even though some are several miles out of the area beyond the three above.

 

His only comment about the reason for disabling these caches is "Closed for winter" Reading the logs for 1510Z, it would appear that the cache is simply not something that can last. Being a finder ot the other two, I can tell you that one is a fairly standard micro while the other is just a peice of paper in a pen.

 

Again, I believe that the practice is perfectly acceptable where necessary due to weather or habitat but not because an owner simply isn't interested in maintaining their caches. If these three, why not the other 12?

 

As for me asking the cache owner, I did speak with the cache owner a while back just before he archived a previous cache (which was in good shape, easy to maintain and even complemented) and he was quite rude and was even insulting and went off about my caches. I would prefer to not even deal with someone like him. Perhaps that is why I am standing up for the other cachers in our area who are questioning his practice.

 

In the case Dadfish brings up, I would say archival would be the appropriate path and would not hesitate to post an SBA.

 

It is good to see all of the positive support for the practice here for the obvious situations where temporarily disabling a cache is waranted.

[+Moose Mob]

Can you keep a cache disabled for that long without the reviewers asking questions?

Sure - all you need to do is clearly list the reason for it to be disabled for an extended period of time and when it will be back.

 

Not necessarily.

There was a local cache that was disabled due to nearby construction, and the owner clearly stated his reason.

The cache was eventually archived anyway.

Of course, it might get re-instated, but with the recent attitude change on archived caches, a new cache may be required.

This is headed on a tangent, but it's a valid comment that deserves a valid response.

 

If a cacher says "temporary disabled until construction is completed" then they still need to check on the area and provide status to the public. If the construction is major (like the new Hoover Dam Bypass bridge), it can be 2-3 years. If that is the case, then it needs to be in the logs with an estimated completion date. Cachers should say more than "until further notice".

 

Otherwise, archived caches that are requested to be unarchived by the cache owner (and are within the guidelines) are usually unarchived.

[+Zop]

Recently there has been a cache owner in my area who has turned his cache "off" (disabled) for the winter. I'm assuming that he will turn it back "on" when the weather gets better.

 

I was just wondering if this is a accepted practice or should he just make his cache container "all weather"?

 

I have purposely left my opinion out to try to get other cachers opinions.

 

Update:

 

After my posting an SBA, his deletion of my log with no explaination, my reposting an SBA, his deletion of the second SBA and all of my previous logs AND the reviewer's log, he finally archived one of the "Closed for winter" caches and reactivated two others with a warning to all about flood danger. Interesting though, the two he's warning about "flooding" at best get's maybe a few inches on the road in the worst time of year.

 

I think it was pretty clear that the cache owner either didn't read the cache placement guidelines or simply chose to ignore them.

 

Nomex, the reviewer for this cache has shown very impressive un-biased mediation skills and should be commended. Thank you for all you do.

[+Scare Force One]

There is one near me that is disabled every year becuse it is in a ditch that floods. It is disabled in Spring and reactivated in the Summer. No one has ever objected.

 

~.~Scare Force One

[+Zop]

There is one near me that is disabled every year becuse it is in a ditch that floods. It is disabled in Spring and reactivated in the Summer. No one has ever objected.

 

~.~Scare Force One

 

And that would make sense. The cache(s) the OP was referring to though are not in ditches. One was along the side of a road in a stick, the other two are guardrail and mile marker hides. I think the real issue here is that of turning caches on and off on a whim. There's no question that there are many ligitimate reasons to disable a cache.