ReMinting a coin...

[+Cornerstone4]

These days, I only purchase one of each new geocoin coming out if I like it, trading has really died down this year.

 

Maybe this is a result of too many coins being made, and reminting the ones that are in demand. If there were no remintings, then the couple of extra coins the lucky one's got would have trade value. Also, those unfortunate ones that didn't get the coin will need to trade for one.

 

 

Edited to add: I kind of miss the days when if you didn't log on mulitple times in a day, you could very well miss out on a new release. It kept some excitement in the air.

Edited August 21, 2007 by Cornerstone4

[+Marky]

If I make a coin and dont want to be held to a number, I wont publish one. If I say, 150 coins, I try to stick to that number.

I agree here. If a number was published on how many were being minted of a particular metal/color combination, I would expect that no more would be minted of that combination. If no minting number was announced, then I assume that more may be minted if there is a demand for them.

 

--Marky

[+DresselDragons]

Most coins offered for sale from mid 2005 when I began collecting, listed the quantity minted for each metal, I took those numbers to the bank, meaning I knew no other coins were going to be minted and they weren't.

I totally agree with this...and I think that is why those of us "old school" collectors are not a big supporter of reminting. Back in the day, the numbers posted were all that were minted. I have also seriously cut back on the extra coins that I used to purchase...not as many folks want to trade for a coin that is readily available for sale.

 

In regards to bvnlj's comment about trading only amount the "in crowd"...that is how I felt when I first started trading. Many of my first offers were turned down. There were quite a few times when I contacted someone for a trade, and they had already made arrangements with someone else for the trade. I found that maintaining a trade list (and checking others' lists) helped me match up what I had to offer with someone seeking the coin. Sometimes, it is easier to make the trade later, instead of so soon after the coin sale. Right after the sale, there are usually quite a few folks offering the coin for trade...later, there are less available and it might make for an easier to work out a trade.

[+zazth]

Personally, I can not afford to purchase all the coins I want. There are simply too many out there. I have noticed that some folks offset the cost of their collection by buying extras and selling them on ebay. Once you have bought the coin it is yours to do with as you wish. I personally do not plan to go this route. Mike is working on his own design to make and sell. It will be minted ONE time with a set number of RE and LE. From the sell of that coin we will make our personal coin, which will be a trade only coin. Hopefully that will give us a coin to trade for other coins we like or want.

[+TMOCM]

These days, I only purchase one of each new geocoin coming out if I like it, trading has really died down this year.

Maybe this is a result of too many coins being made, and reminting the ones that are in demand. If there were no remintings, then the couple of extra coins the lucky one's got would have trade value. Also, those unfortunate ones that didn't get the coin will need to trade for one.

My thoughts exactly, I currently have quite a few coins for trade that have been sitting for more than 6 months with no offers, so time to release them or give them away.

[+T"n"T]

Personally, I would like to see more effort put into matching first runs to demand with presales and protecting first mintings with sequentially numbered coins. Let me elaborate.

 

Presales would help the seller gain early commitments for a fixed quantity of coins. Additionally, this market intellignece would help establish the level of interest in a coin design and establish the likely market demand. Then the seller can plan additional coin quantities above demand based on their risk adversity for the extra coins.

This would keep their base of loyal and committed buyers more satisfied since they would be more likely to get receive the coins they desire instead of perching like vultures on sale day or missing the sale.

 

Next topic, consumers who have a distaste for reminting recognize the weaknesses of the geocoin market and would like protection for their investment. Therefore, more of an effort should be made by the sellers to differentiate a first run geocoin from a reminted geocoin. Similar to the publishing industry. Personally, I like a serialized number in addition to the tracking number. (TNT Dragon coins) But, I also find the use of different colors or metals acceptable (Dressels Dragons) if they are used sparingly.

 

We have tried to make sure that we are clear on how many we might be making. RE versions have no set number of coins made. If demand is there we can make more. But Anything I list as XLE has to be for trade, LE's are sold but only up to stated numbers. Example; on one coin we had orginally stated no more than 100 sets to be made. We lowered it to 50. At this point we have only made 20 of those and may not make the others. We feel that this is fair to those who wanted a limited coin in that if anything, the value will go up, by reducing production. The same is true of our Dragon series. It states no more than 200 they are numbered as well as trackable. But not all 200 were made of each. Just my(our) two cents.

 

The bottom line with some coin makers reminting may be to make more money, but then I think that are trying to make customers happy and help all that want their coins to be able to have them.

[avroair]

Well, this certainly isn't 2005 anymore. There are far more people in coins purely to profit. New collectors seem to purchase rather than trade and new vendors make up their own guidelines and wonder why 'old-timers' get annoyed at them. The personal has left personal geocoins.

 

I don't feel there is an 'in crowd' for trading. I soon found out I needed to organize and maintain a want and traders list. I send out trade offers that are ignored, declined or counter offered. If a trade is made, great, if not, I move on to the next trade.

[+ThirstyMick]

Personally, I prefer to buy rather than trade. Maybe I'll trade when/if I have a personal coin made, but I'm not sure how I feel about trading coins that other people minted, maybe it's b/c I discovered coin stores about 6 months before I entered the coin forum (or any Groundspeak forum for that matter), I bought tons of coins before I ever had any idea there was a trading community, and before I had any idea that there was ANY value to these things other than aesthetic. Long before I realized it could matter to anyone how many were minted. Maybe it's also b/c I don't like the idea of adding an additional $1.30 to the shipping charge. For a $10 coin, plus $2+ shipping to get to me, plus $1.30 shipping to get to the trader, it's starting to not be worth it. I also think more than just a little bit that I don't trade b/c I know that I'm not very responsible. I'm not particularly irresponsible but it seems that getting myself to a post office is about the most difficult thing I do. The post office here opens after I need to be at work and closes before I get out and I have so many other things to do at lunch... like go find caches, there are 2 new ones lunch distance from work, but I haven't found the time yet!! I think I'm rambling, but my point is that it just seems like a hassle to trade purchased coins. I see where everyones coming from and I can respect that you want to preseve the "value" of your coin, but on the other hand I'd like to be able to get my grubby hands on said coin without a hassle. I've been assuming all along that if a coin wasn't called "Limited Edition" that it wasn't a limited edition; but that's just me. I guess now though, everybody should know in the future that they should specify if the RE could be reminted.

[+Lotho]

I dont like the thought of a coin being remineted when i ahve bought knowing i was one of only 250 people who had the same coin. However, if it said that it would be reminted i would still buy and enjoy the coin.

[+tsunrisebey]

Well, this certainly isn't 2005 anymore. There are far more people in coins purely to profit. New collectors seem to purchase rather than trade and new vendors make up their own guidelines and wonder why 'old-timers' get annoyed at them. The personal has left personal geocoins.

 

(Mark, this post is not directed at you personally or at least most of it, lol).

 

I don't completely agree with your statement...

 

I won't argue with your point that people are in coins for profit because it's foolish to think that most people are going to mint coins without expecting to at least break even or come out ahead. Some people/vendors obviously charge more for their coins, to break even/profit quicker. Even those who receive coins as 'payment' from the vendors are profiting whether it be via 'free' trades or selling on ebay. We always come back to the profit=(free coins/$$$) statements and so many people treat it like a dirty word or at least that's how I keep reading it. You've obviously been around longer than I have, so you've seen more changes than I.

 

You say the personal has left the personal geocoin, care to expound on that? What are the guidelines that all the new people keep breaking? Should the new people continue to follow some sort of mythical standard? Ok, I admit, sometimes I see statements and I do take them a bit personally. How can I not? (just in case, I'm not writing this while upset, lol, I just want some one to do a better job of explaining). Sometimes there are blanket statements said, I personally don't like being lumped in with them and I'm sure there are a few others that don't appreciate it either. Why is it that all the old-timers get to be perception of being 'perfect' while the rest of us seem to be flawed in our geocoin ways? Personally speaking, no one is sitting with me here at home when I'm sitting down to draw a design. Every design I ever came up with that resulted in a geocoin/sig item was well thought out. I know there are people here who have seen a web page of mine that have seen my wordy paragraphs of what each coin represents, right down to the color. You can't get much more personal than that. While I'm on the subject (lol), my first personal coin, Raiders of the Lost Cache; I've seen many people talking about how they would like to see non-trackable personals. I did one of those and I pumped out some serious $$$ for them. I'm still sitting on half of them, I've put a bunch in caches. I hardly had any 'old-timers' ask me for a trade. I've even been turned down for that coin. I make some trackable designs and those do well. There is just no way to make everyone happy here.

 

So when it comes to trading, I can't trade my nontrackables even when I put them up on the trading thread, I can't afford to buy a ton of new coins because the ones I have that are trackable and for trade, I can't get rid of either unless I take them to ebay (which I prefer not to do), I won't buy a coin knowing it's going to be reminted because I can get it down the road later if I really want it and it holds no value for trading until many months down the road.

 

Reminting... wasn't it back in the old days people could easily sell off 500 or more coins? Today the numbers sold on an initial run are smaller because the market is different than it was years ago, more choices today. So when a remint happens, some people get upset. It's not as easy to guage today's market. Whether you like reminting or not, it's going to happen, the only thing you can hope for is that the person/vendor will be upfront about it in the beginning (buyer beware). I've only been involved in 1 reminting issue, if that makes me a 'immoral', 'bad', whatever, then I guess that's the way it goes, here you can take away my birthday

Anything that I put out individually (trackable) will never be reminted, I personally am not interested in reminted coins, the turtles were never about me and what I wanted.

 

I'm just really tired of reading the comments month after month about how the new people on here will never compare to the old-time coiners, and some (I said some) of your comments really seem like slight 'digs' to me (not saying you directed them at me). It's really frustrating. Let me tell you old-timers something else, the new/newer people do look up to you. It's like having a big brother or big sister. There's alot to be heeded in what you say (at least I pay attention or try to understand where you are coming from) but please keep in mind how you word things. It's like being admonished on here at times. I think it would go a long way to really look at what you write and how it is coming off to the readers....

 

Ok, well I just completely unloaded/vented some of my geocoin frustrations. I know I got a little off the reminting topic, lol. I couldn't help myself, I've always tried to be respectful or just keep my mouth shut but I finally had to touch on a few things. (Thanks avroair for spurring me on to do so, lol). Ok, well there just happens to be a Bald Eagle soaring outside of my picture window, so guess it's time to go outside and enjoy the day. Highly doubtful there will be another outburst for the next 6 months

 

~tsun

[+Kealia]

Well, this certainly isn't 2005 anymore. There are far more people in coins purely to profit. New collectors seem to purchase rather than trade and new vendors make up their own guidelines and wonder why 'old-timers' get annoyed at them. The personal has left personal geocoins.

 

I don't feel there is an 'in crowd' for trading. I soon found out I needed to organize and maintain a want and traders list. I send out trade offers that are ignored, declined or counter offered. If a trade is made, great, if not, I move on to the next trade.

I agree with this statement. I've been able to make trades with a LOT of people, not just a small group. Heck, even people that I've argued with in the forums are willing to make trades. Those that are unwilling to trade outside of their clique....well that's another topic and not worth the trouble IMO. There are FAR too many people who WILL trade with anybody if the coin is right.

 

You say the personal has left the personal geocoin, care to expound on that? What are the guidelines that all the new people keep breaking? Should the new people continue to follow some sort of mythical standard?

<snip>

I'll take a stab at this. A personal coin is just that - personal. It's a reflection of the maker, has thier name on it so it somebody finds it you can easily tell who's it is. It's not a coin designed by somebody (i.e. I love rainbows and made a rainbow coin so it's considered personal). It's a coin made by a person, reflecting that person, and typically (not always) not sold. It's a true signature item. I think you can use Moun10Bike as the litmus test for personal coins.

 

And I don't think it's a "mythical standard", it's a simple definition. Sure, some old-timers want to preserve what a "personal coin" is - is that so bad? I think that anybody new to something (insert favorite hobby, sport, group here) has an obligation to understand the history of what they are joining and not jump in and immediately try to set their own standards. Not saying that you personally are doing this, again talking in generalizations here.

Sure, change is inevitable and people "pushing the envelope" are usually good for whatever they are involved in. They have the right to want to make things evolve just as much as the old-timers have the right to want things not to.

 

I'm just really tired of reading the comments month after month about how the new people on here will never compare to the old-time coiners, and some (I said some) of your comments really seem like slight 'digs' to me (not saying you directed them at me). It's really frustrating. Let me tell you old-timers something else, the new/newer people do look up to you. It's like having a big brother or big sister. There's alot to be heeded in what you say (at least I pay attention or try to understand where you are coming from) but please keep in mind how you word things. It's like being admonished on here at times. I think it would go a long way to really look at what you write and how it is coming off to the readers....

I don't know that anybody has ever said they don't compare, but it depends on how how define that. I would say there is a clear difference in the old timers who like to trade, prefer set runs of coins, and don't like to see all the commercial (i.e. putting out a coin because they had a crazy idea one night and ran with it but it has nothing to do with caching) coins and the newer group of folks who produce more coins than they do trade, cache or anything else. in that sense, no they don't "compare".

 

Is one better than the other? That' nobody business to say I suppose. Both hold tight to their way of doing things and both want to press their own agenda (either change, or not changing). Like it or not, there are two divided camps in here, but there's no reason that they can't co-exist with some respect.

 

I'm known to be very vocal in my opinions (news flash, I know) - but you would be hard pressed to find and unwarranted disrespectful comments coming from me as general statements. I actually enjoy a good debate and like to try and get in the other person's head to understand where they are coming from and why they think the way they do.

 

I realize after typing this that's it's really off-topic from the question of re-minting, sorry.

 

My opinions on a re-mint?

If numbers are stated, that should be it unless clearly stated that more MAY be made.

 

In the past, I would have said that reminiting in a different metal/color would be OK (even if not stated upfront) but I'm now on the fence on whether or not that still diminishes the "value" of the original run. I'm going to need to think on this one and read some more opinions on this particular portion of it.

[+BVnLJ]

"I don't feel there is an 'in crowd' for trading. I soon found out I needed to organize and maintain a want and traders list. I send out trade offers that are ignored, declined or counter offered. If a trade is made, great, if not, I move on to the next trade. "

 

Ok. I get this as far as the trader/seeker lists goes to making trades go smoother. (sorry Pghlooking) lol

 

My question to you guys is: Aren't you a little wary of placing what you own and what is in your home on the internet where anyone who truly wanted to can find out where you live?

[+AtlantaGal]

My question to you guys is: Aren't you a little wary of placing what you own and what is in your home on the internet where anyone who truly wanted to can find out where you live?

 

Nah, there are only a handful of geocachers I wouldn't invite into my home. Plus I have an attack Shih Tzu on the premisis who will simply maul any visitor to death

[+LadyBee4T]

 

My question to you guys is: Aren't you a little wary of placing what you own and what is in your home on the internet where anyone who truly wanted to can find out where you live?

 

I don't think anyone but me can find anything in my house anyway and I also have a very vocal dog! LOL

 

OT I definitely enjoy the trading--thrill of the hunt so to speak--so if I haven't answered an email it may be that I never got it. In that regard, I think that the numbers minted make a difference in the number of coins I buy as several others have stated. A coin that is a stock item doesn't make a good trader so why buy more than one. If a remint is even possible then it should be stated upfront and would be part of what helps me decide how many I buy. I am getting a bit wary of the ones who remint most if not all of the coins they sell. A remint is fine by me as long as its stated upfront.

[+The Moop Along]

My question to you guys is: Aren't you a little wary of placing what you own and what is in your home on the internet where anyone who truly wanted to can find out where you live?

 

Nah, there are only a handful of geocachers I wouldn't invite into my home. Plus I have an attack Shih Tzu on the premisis who will simply maul any visitor to death

 

Not to mention you'd have to pay me to go in there heheheh

 

Ok, so on topic. Where do I stand on reminting? Well, I'll do my best to not offend the 'new' collectors (Sorry Steph ) I consider myself a middle collector, with "old collector" theories. I never got to see the initial coins in caches, and given as special gifts. Not much of it anyway.

 

My problem is this. Geocoins were and will always be collectors items. The problem lies in the fact that people can collect those however they choose. Buy them, gift them, receive them as gifts, trade for them, etc. But, you (general term) do so as a valued interest. No one would buy a geocoin because its worthless. Its value to you might be aesthetic, monetary, sentimental, etc. You get the point. When every person has one of them, well, they simply devalue to some point. Maybe not to you, but they do, every time, none the less.

 

Geocoins carry with them a stigma of a limited nature. Your boss at work probably doesn't own a Compass Rose geocoin, nor does your dry cleaner, or pizza guy. You show them off to these people because they are special. Not to them, to you silly . .

 

Ok, so I rambled away from reminting. Reminting in the exact same color scheme, metal, everything, stinks. Plain and simple. Designs that are quality designs and sell out quick, hooray. You've really done something special. In today's game of 50 or 60 coins per month, you're a hero. Stick with that, and move on. Reminting in another metal or finish or color scheme? Kinda like the old wrinkly one said , I'm on the fence on that one. It decreases value, but to what point?

 

I guess I just wish that super fast remintings (don't have a set time frame here, maybe less than a week later??) might be re-considered. Do the ~25 people that missed out on a design really deserve, yes I said it, deserve, have the right, etc. to complain enough to devalue everyone else's investment? I think that's why the thread up top got started, something about Geocoin Trading?? Go ahead, whip me. I'll not answer that question in here.

 

edit to add below**

 

I really wanted to respond to Tsun's post, nicely I promise, but that would be more off topic. She'll get an email later

Edited August 22, 2007 by The Moop Along

[ParentsofSAM]

I guess I just wish that super fast remintings (don't have a set time frame here, maybe less than a week later??) might be re-considered. Do the ~25 people that missed out on a design really deserve, yes I said it, deserve, have the right, etc. to complain enough to devalue everyone else's investment? I think that's why the thread up top got started, something about Geocoin Trading?? Go ahead, whip me. I'll not answer that question in here.

 

Yep.

 

The fact is that if 300 coins were made and sold out in minutes well then there are still 300 coins in the market. People who missed out can trade, purchase on the secondary market...whatever. It does not necessarily warrant a post sale re-mint that is announced the same day or the same week of the coin sell out.

 

I am not an old-timer but like TMA I am a middle-timer. But when we first started collecting there was times when a coin was announced the sold out before I ever even it was available, so for those coins I traded. I have not noticed a trade clique and have been turned down for trade very rarely.

 

One reason the trade scene is not very active among the newer collectors is for the same reasons that ThirstyMick pointed out. Coin prices have been on the rise over the past year and mailing them just adds to the top of the coin. So there is another reason that the higher prices of coins is bad for the community.

 

The market has changed, before you could take a mint number to the bank and that would be how many were made end of story, now even if a mint number is posted but it is still not expressly written no re-mints will occur then everyone should figure that a re-mint may occur in event of a sellout and high demand. It is a vendor mind set change from the vendors of the past. I suppose all of the old-timers and middle-timers are still getting used to the new crop of vendors and buyers and the different mind sets they have.

[+WWC-World's Worst Cacher]

As a coin maker here are my choices:

 

1. I can make a bunch of coins to start, say 1,000 + of everything, and announce up front what that number is. Then I will never have people complaining about reminting.

 

2. I can make a very small number say 250, which makes it harder for the numbers to work, and hope that people like and buy my design. I will also frustrate buyers, who didn’t happen to be sitting at their computer when the coin went up for sale, on a popular design.

 

3. I can make a smaller number and then plan on reminting if the demand warrants it.

 

There are sort of three groups of buyers, with a lot of crossover between the groups.

 

A. Collectors (pretty much everyone falls into this category). They don't care so much about the total number of coins made, but would rather make sure they can get a coin they like when it comes out.

 

B. Traders (many fall into this category) and they value scarce coins for their trade value.

 

C. E-Bay Sellers and they also value scarcity.

 

As a commercial coin maker the question becomes how do I best accommodate all three groups? It was a lot easier when I could make 500- 1,000 coins and be reasonably sure that all or most would sell out. If a few didn't sell out, oh well, in time they will. Now even doing 250 coins is no guarantee of a sell out.

 

All that being said . . . (tongue in cheek) I am going to solve the problem for Hogwild Stuff. I am hereby limited all of my coin runs to 10,000 coins unless otherwise stated.

 

Seriously, I have considered going back to a pre order model because it better judges immediate demand, and is probably the best model to ensure the right number of coins are minted and that the value as either traders or on ebay increases over time.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Your Raider coin is AWESOME Tsun...one of my favorites! Trackable or not, still nice!

[+tsunrisebey]

Kealia...read what you wrote, am thinking on it. I'm outta town for a couple days w/ no internet soon, so will respond when I get home.

 

TMA...thanks for the email Nicely said.

 

RR... lol, thanks

[+Cap'n YB]

The quotes below are attributable southbayday with my comments added in RED

 

As a coin maker here are my choices:

1. I can make a bunch of coins to start, say 1,000 + of everything, and announce up front what that number is. Then I will never have people complaining about reminting. Bad for seller

2. I can make a very small number say 250, which makes it harder for the numbers to work, and hope that people like and buy my design. I will also frustrate buyers, who didn't happen to be sitting at their computer when the coin went up for sale, on a popular design. Bad for customer and seller

3. I can make a smaller number and then plan on reminting if the demand warrants it. Bad for original coin buyers

 

4) What about performing market research to better estimate demand and mint the right quantity on the first minting? Read this topic http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=171572 and see how a seller is trying to better serve their customers.

 

There are sort of three groups of buyers, with a lot of crossover between the groups.

A. Collectors (pretty much everyone falls into this category). They don't care so much about the total number of coins made, False assumption but would rather make sure they can get a coin they like when it comes out. Most certainly True

 

B. Traders (many fall into this category) and they value scarce extra coins for their trade value.

 

C. E-Bay Sellers and they also value scarcity. As a commercial coin maker do you really care about serving the secondary market? I think it only exist to serve current unfulfilled demand from any of your primary sales or at some future time, fulfill market demand for "classic" long out of print geocoins.

 

As a commercial coin maker the question becomes how do I best accommodate all three groups? Seriously, I have considered going back to a pre order model because it better judges immediate demand, and is probably the best model to ensure the right number of coins are minted and that the value as either traders or on ebay increases over time. I think that preorders or reservations help coin makers better marry coin supply to coin demand. The problem is that either are not easy. However, investing in service efforts in this area will leave your customers happier and maximize your profits.

 

I'm glad to see there are several coin related threads that are discussing this topic. This dialog will eventually help move the hobby forward as we talk through the issues and make an effort to improve.

[+Hula Bum]

I'm still not getting why it's so bad that not everyone gets every coin? Maybe a thread needs to be started to see how many people still trade, as this is the group that re-minting affects the most. Is trading really becoming a thing of the past?

[+WWC-World's Worst Cacher]

I'm still not getting why it's so bad that not everyone gets every coin? Maybe a thread needs to be started to see how many people still trade, as this is the group that re-minting affects the most. Is trading really becoming a thing of the past?

 

But the alt. question is why is it so bad if every one does get every coin? And secondly, coins that have less scarsity tend to travel more, which seems to be to be a good thing.

[+ThirstyMick]

I'm still not getting why it's so bad that not everyone gets every coin? Maybe a thread needs to be started to see how many people still trade, as this is the group that re-minting affects the most. Is trading really becoming a thing of the past?

I don't want every coin, just the ones I like!!

(but I do like to be able to buy the ones I like, when I've been waiting weeks and weeks for them to go on sale)

[+ArtieD]

I'm still not getting why it's so bad that not everyone gets every coin? Maybe a thread needs to be started to see how many people still trade, as this is the group that re-minting affects the most. Is trading really becoming a thing of the past?

 

Part of the reason why some people don't trade is because some people just don't want to trade. Why force them to?

 

For regular-issue coins, anyone who wants one should be able to get one. As for LE's and such, then yes...not everyone should be able to.

[+PSU Fan]

I'm still not getting why it's so bad that not everyone gets every coin? Maybe a thread needs to be started to see how many people still trade, as this is the group that re-minting affects the most. Is trading really becoming a thing of the past?

 

Part of the reason why some people don't trade is because some people just don't want to trade. Why force them to?

 

For regular-issue coins, anyone who wants one should be able to get one. As for LE's and such, then yes...not everyone should be able to.

I am a new comer to the geocoin forums and the geocoin collecting scene. I started reading the threads, but chose not to participate for some time. I remember someone saying that there is the "in crowd" and it is hard to break into the scene. I do not agree with the statement, but I have to admit that the coin collecting group can be intimidating to those just joining or thinking about collecting. There is a level of comfort amongst those that know one another and it is easily seen to an "outsider" looking in. When I first came into the forums, I fell into that catagory and to some degree I still do. Now I have put some trade requests out their and some of the "intimiding people" have responded to me either by email or through the forums. After some time I have seen a different side to those who consistantly post and realized that there is no reason to feel intimided....but it did take time for me to see this "softer" side of people

 

To the issue of re-minting a coin, I do not mind the reminting as long as it is to fulfill the initial demand for the coins. I would like to trade more coins and I do sell coins both locally and through ebay. I do not mind holding on to coins now with the hope that all those collecting now have a chance to get the cons that they want. The value of the coins is not today, but possably tomorrow. I look at many collectors trading lists, and they are either looking for coins minted 2+ years ago or they have a current XLE coin to trade for a 2005 or earlier coin. Who cares who has the coins today, it is the collectors of tomorrow that will keep the value of any coin, even those that are re-minted to keep up with the current demand.

 

Just my $.01

 

[+Hula Bum]

If everyone can get one, then there really is no need for trading is there? That was the point I was trying to make, that is why I c it as a downer.

 

Edit to add-Of course the people in here minting the coins are going to want re-minting, it equates to more money.

Edited August 24, 2007 by Hula Bum

[+Shop99er]

When we made our Tiki coin early this year, they flew out the door way faster than I ever thought they would. We talked about making another batch, but I finally decided that it would be better to go with a new design. I had announced that there would be 100, and that was that.

 

The notion that everyone that wants one of a "regular-issue" coin should be able to get one doesn't fly with me. That's part of the fun in trading. Looking for the one you really want. And sometimes, getting it. Besides, where does it say anyone owes everyone a coin?

 

Personal coins should reflect something of the cacher. Yes, I know, putting your name on it now seems to be the only real criteria to make a coin personal. But again. (ready?) I don't agree with that theory.

 

My coins reflect who I am. I'm the guy at work that refuses to dress like all the other Supervisors. I wear an Aloha shirt every day. It's part of how I rebel against the "way" people in my position are supposed to look. You will also notice on my more recent coins, an image of me, with a quote. The images are taken from photos that TTUMS has, and the quotes, while not mine, reflect how I view life, and the world in general. After looking Death in the face twice in the span of 4 years, I refuse to take things like life quite so seriously.

 

Re-minting something that personal is just not gonna happen, in this corner of the universe. Re-minting the coins that we sell also isn't going to happen.

 

We announce 100, and that's it.

[+Cap'n YB]

Of course the people in here minting the coins are going to want re-minting, it equates to more money.

Wouldn't it be more profitable if they minted a quantity closer to the actual demand with a single minting?

 

 

To the issue of re-minting a coin, I do not mind the reminting as long as it is to fulfill the initial demand for the coins.

I still want to know why the coin sellers can't do a "better" job of minting an effective quanity the first time.

[+Cap'n YB]

Of course the people in here minting the coins are going to want re-minting, it equates to more money.

Wouldn't it be more profitable if they minted a quantity closer to the actual demand with a single minting?

 

 

To the issue of re-minting a coin, I do not mind the reminting as long as it is to fulfill the initial demand for the coins.

I still want to know why the coin sellers can't do a "better" job of minting an effective quanity the first time.

[+MustangJoni]

Of course the people in here minting the coins are going to want re-minting, it equates to more money.

Wouldn't it be more profitable if they minted a quantity closer to the actual demand with a single minting?

 

 

To the issue of re-minting a coin, I do not mind the reminting as long as it is to fulfill the initial demand for the coins.

I still want to know why the coin sellers can't do a "better" job of minting an effective quanity the first time.

 

It isn't real easy to gage. You have to do 250 to get an icon. Usually, the magic number to break even is about 175 on that 250 coin run. That is just an approximate number.

 

The reservation or pre-pays can do a "better" job of gaging interest, because you will have an exact number. But many of the larger stores send the design off to the mint and then sell it when they arrive. A sell out of 250 is no longer guaranteed. If you have a really good design that is sought after, they may get caught short if they only do 250. If the design isn't a hit, then they might get stuck with a lot of coins.

[+DresselDragons]

It seems, to me, that the policy of reminting has negatively impacted trading. A coin that is minted in larger quanities fetches a lower trade value, and not as many collectors are looking to trade for that coin since it is easier to add it to your cart than work out a trade. There are definately more collectors now than a couple of years ago, so it is understandable that minting totals have increased...and maybe reminting is a growing pain because minters are having a harder time judging the demand of a coin. I dunno. Maybe more presales or reservations would alleviate the misjudgment of coin sales and reminting.

 

The notion that everyone that wants one of a "regular-issue" coin should be able to get one doesn't fly with me. That's part of the fun in trading. Looking for the one you really want. And sometimes, getting it. Besides, where does it say anyone owes everyone a coin?

 

I agree that there is great enjoyment to be had in trying to track down a trade. If there is a coin that I REALLY want, then I buy it, otherwise I try to trade for it. It's like solving a puzzle cache...I get a great sense of satisfaction and accomplishment when I track down an elusive coin. My favorite coins (for sentimental reasons...not due to design) are the ones that I had to earn, not put in a shopping cart...and, of those that I've had to earn, my ABSOLUTE favorites are the ones that I traded face to face (there are a lot of funny stories there, and wonderful people that I am very thankful to have met) and the mystery coins that we've pulled out of caches. I guess, to me, it is more about the jouney or memory than the design.

[+ArtieD]

If everyone can get one, then there really is no need for trading is there? That was the point I was trying to make, that is why I c it as a downer.

 

You miss the point entirely. Lots of people don't want to buy coins out of principle. Those people can still trade. Those that don't do as much trading, if at all, want to buy coins. Both groups can be served well, even if there is a remint.

 

Edit to add-Of course the people in here minting the coins are going to want re-minting, it equates to more money.

 

That's a cheap shot, IMO...profit isn't always the motive for a company to do a remint. Ever stop to think they may want to serve the costomers' needs and wants?

Edited August 24, 2007 by Arthur & Trillian

[+pghlooking]

Edit to add-Of course the people in here minting the coins are going to want re-minting, it equates to more money.

 

That's a cheap shot, IMO...profit isn't always the motive for a company to do a remint. Ever stop to think they may want to serve the costomers' needs and wants?

It's not a cheap shot at all. They are a buisness. If they weren't into it for the money and were into it to make sure everyone got some great coin designs and all that stuff, then they would be selling the coins for cost, or at the very least near cost. They are in buisness to make money. None of these companies are some public sevice group so why are we pretending they are. If making a profit on coins isn't a bad thing, then why is calling a buisness a buisness a bad thing? Reminting a coin makes the company money while keeping the quantity low enables them to not take a risk on minting too many coins. It allows them to maximize profit while doing so with the least amount of risk. That's not a cheap shot but rather some basic facts.

[CinemaBoxers]

Edit to add-Of course the people in here minting the coins are going to want re-minting, it equates to more money.

 

This I entirely disagree with - in designing coins, I can personally say that I know several coin manufacturers who just do NOT need the money. In fact, sometimes profits are neglible after I get coins, or am paid, depending on the cost of the coin - the money they would make is SO not worth the trouble.

 

I think everyone thinks that EVERY minter makes a serious profit on EVERY coin produced, which I know is not always true. Some coins cost more to make, and when this is a hobby - or a certain coin takes an insane number of revisions with the mint - - the minters 'pay' for the time involved is pretty sorry.

 

But as I was saying - some of the folks doing this actually do it because they love making coins. I admittedly design coins to make a little money, and because I love it - but my interest in a remint is usually only in a few additional coins, so - as for profit? Not as much as you'd think.

 

Now... SOME minters may do this for profit - but I think theres alot easier way to make a little money, with alot less stress. I can only speak for the people I have worked for, as to the motives of WHY they make coins.

 

Now back to our soggy life here at home... our neighborhood is flooding pretty badly - been all over the news. No water IN our basement other than a little seepage yet - but its concrete - we got lucky. The people just down our street have water up to their front doors - some past them. The sandbagging is still ongoing, and the river is rising. LINK

[+ArtieD]

It's not a cheap shot at all. They are a buisness. If they weren't into it for the money and were into it to make sure everyone got some great coin designs and all that stuff, then they would be selling the coins for cost, or at the very least near cost. They are in buisness to make money. None of these companies are some public sevice group so why are we pretending they are. If making a profit on coins isn't a bad thing, then why is calling a buisness a buisness a bad thing? Reminting a coin makes the company money while keeping the quantity low enables them to not take a risk on minting too many coins. It allows them to maximize profit while doing so with the least amount of risk. That's not a cheap shot but rather some basic facts.

 

Why are you...yet again...generalizing? Do you have the inside line on what each and every coin manufacturer is doing?

 

I didn't think so.

[+pghlooking]

It's not a cheap shot at all. They are a buisness. If they weren't into it for the money and were into it to make sure everyone got some great coin designs and all that stuff, then they would be selling the coins for cost, or at the very least near cost. They are in buisness to make money. None of these companies are some public sevice group so why are we pretending they are. If making a profit on coins isn't a bad thing, then why is calling a buisness a buisness a bad thing? Reminting a coin makes the company money while keeping the quantity low enables them to not take a risk on minting too many coins. It allows them to maximize profit while doing so with the least amount of risk. That's not a cheap shot but rather some basic facts.

 

Why are you...yet again...generalizing? Do you have the inside line on what each and every coin manufacturer is doing?

 

I didn't think so.

Not generalizing at all. Just calling it how I see it. They wouldn't be in buisness if they weren't making any money. makes sense to keep invertory low to ensure you sell out.

[+ArtieD]

It's not a cheap shot at all. They are a buisness. If they weren't into it for the money and were into it to make sure everyone got some great coin designs and all that stuff, then they would be selling the coins for cost, or at the very least near cost. They are in buisness to make money. None of these companies are some public sevice group so why are we pretending they are. If making a profit on coins isn't a bad thing, then why is calling a buisness a buisness a bad thing? Reminting a coin makes the company money while keeping the quantity low enables them to not take a risk on minting too many coins. It allows them to maximize profit while doing so with the least amount of risk. That's not a cheap shot but rather some basic facts.

 

Why are you...yet again...generalizing? Do you have the inside line on what each and every coin manufacturer is doing?

 

I didn't think so.

Not generalizing at all. Just calling it how I see it. They wouldn't be in buisness if they weren't making any money. makes sense to keep invertory low to ensure you sell out.

 

Point is, how you see it isn't necessarily so.

[+WWC-World's Worst Cacher]

WAIT A MINUTE!

 

Why is making a profit bad?

[+Hula Bum]

Edit to add-Of course the people in here minting the coins are going to want re-minting, it equates to more money.

 

That's a cheap shot, IMO...profit isn't always the motive for a company to do a remint. Ever stop to think they may want to serve the costomers' needs and wants?

It's not a cheap shot at all. They are a buisness. If they weren't into it for the money and were into it to make sure everyone got some great coin designs and all that stuff, then they would be selling the coins for cost, or at the very least near cost. They are in buisness to make money. None of these companies are some public sevice group so why are we pretending they are. If making a profit on coins isn't a bad thing, then why is calling a buisness a buisness a bad thing? Reminting a coin makes the company money while keeping the quantity low enables them to not take a risk on minting too many coins. It allows them to maximize profit while doing so with the least amount of risk. That's not a cheap shot but rather some basic facts.

 

Thank You PGH. I don't know why it's a shot at all?! Was never meant to be, it's business, that's all I was saying. As a business you would be foolish not to re-mint, it's where the profit margin starts to rise.

[+Hula Bum]

LOL-why would u be in business if you weren't in it to make money? Isn't that kinda the point? How is that generalizing? Yeah, there may be businesses that aren't making money, that just means they're doing something wrong.

 

The issue at hand though is it good for the coin collectors? Yes if you're just collecting, no if you're a trader at heart.

[+pghlooking]

WAIT A MINUTE!

 

Why is making a profit bad?

It's not a bad thing and I don't know why people are pretending they aren't. That is the whole purpose of a buisness. Coin companies aren't charity and i am unsure why people are pretending they are. Make your money, it is the American way. there is nothing wrong with that. I just don't know why some people have to pretend they are in buisness for the customer and not themselves.

[+ArtieD]

The issue at hand though is it good for the coin collectors? Yes if you're just collecting, no if you're a trader at heart.

 

Why can't it be good for both? Both groups benefit in their own ways. Would you toss the desires of the collector aside in favor of the trader?

[+Hula Bum]

Trade value goes down as minting counts go up. As sales go up, trades go down and interaction goes down with it. This was once what it was about, community, that is being replaced by commerce.

[+WWC-World's Worst Cacher]

Trade value goes down as minting counts go up. As sales go up, trades go down and interaction goes down with it. This was once what it was about, community, that is being replaced by commerce.

 

Trade value has more to do with the popularity of the design than the number minted. witness the Tracking Time coin or my Pirate Map Coin.

 

But I am not quite sure I understand how profit / commerce undermines community. There has never been a time when coins have been made without profit by someone.

[+ArtieD]

Trade value goes down as minting counts go up. As sales go up, trades go down and interaction goes down with it. This was once what it was about, community, that is being replaced by commerce.

 

So basically you're referencing the whole "old-school" vs. "new-school" collectors. You want the good ol' days, but in reality you're being selfish in a way. You would make it harder for new collectors to enjoy the hobby at the expense of your precious "trade values." Besides, high mintage doesn't mean low trade value...like others have pointed out, coins like the Tracking Time and the Compass Roses are still highly tradeable, even though there were lots made. So where does that leave you?

 

Times, people and hobbies evolve. This hobby is evolving, too. Keep up with it...it isn't a bad thing at all, and it certainly isn't harming the community (I don't know where you got that silly idea from).

[+DresselDragons]

The issue at hand though is it good for the coin collectors? Yes if you're just collecting, no if you're a trader at heart.

 

Why can't it be good for both? Both groups benefit in their own ways. Would you toss the desires of the collector aside in favor of the trader?

I don't think that anyone said to throw the needs of one group aside for the other. Ideally, it should be balanced, somewhere in the middle, making both sides satisfied. Unfortunately, finding that balancing point is tricky.

[+ArtieD]

The issue at hand though is it good for the coin collectors? Yes if you're just collecting, no if you're a trader at heart.

 

Why can't it be good for both? Both groups benefit in their own ways. Would you toss the desires of the collector aside in favor of the trader?

I don't think that anyone said to throw the needs of one group aside for the other. Ideally, it should be balanced, somewhere in the middle, making both sides satisfied. Unfortunately, finding that balancing point is tricky.

 

I agree with you. The problem I have seen is that where that balance is may never be found.

[+Cornerstone4]

Trade value goes down as minting counts go up. As sales go up, trades go down and interaction goes down with it. This was once what it was about, community, that is being replaced by commerce.

 

So basically you're referencing the whole "old-school" vs. "new-school" collectors. You want the good ol' days, but in reality you're being selfish in a way. You would make it harder for new collectors to enjoy the hobby at the expense of your precious "trade values." Besides, high mintage doesn't mean low trade value...like others have pointed out, coins like the Tracking Time and the Compass Roses are still highly tradeable, even though there were lots made. So where does that leave you?

 

Times, people and hobbies evolve. This hobby is evolving, too. Keep up with it...it isn't a bad thing at all, and it certainly isn't harming the community (I don't know where you got that silly idea from).

 

No need to get hostile here...

 

I fail to see how not getting every coin would hinder new collectors enjoyment of this hobby. This isn't old-school thinking at all either.

 

I used to buy every coin that came out...then it became too expensive. Now, I'll never have a "complete" set of geocoins. Now my enjoyment has been ruined. Everybody stop making so many coins! You have all ruined my fun!

 

It goes both ways.

[+ArtieD]

No need to get hostile here...

 

I fail to see how not getting every coin would hinder new collectors enjoyment of this hobby. This isn't old-school thinking at all either.

 

I used to buy every coin that came out...then it became too expensive. Now, I'll never have a "complete" set of geocoins. Now my enjoyment has been ruined. Everybody stop making so many coins! You have all ruined my fun!

 

It goes both ways.

 

 

I am the least hostile person you'd ever meet...

 

I never said anyone has to get every coin...but the opportunity should be there to get the specific coins they want within reason...

[+Cornerstone4]

 

Trade value has more to do with the popularity of the design than the number minted. witness the Tracking Time coin or my Pirate Map Coin.

 

 

Agreed.

 

I made 1000 Screw coins, and they sold out in a matter of days...

 

I made 1000 Nut coins to go with them...and ended up with boxes of nuts left over!