Jump to content

Cache owners not playing by the rules


Team Smokey
Followers 6

Recommended Posts

Mushtang-"Couldn't one of the CCC team of finders take an afternoon off and go around to do maintenance on their caches? The other people on the team could continue to find and post all their finds that day and "she" would still be the "leader"."
I believe "she" now is the whole team.
Link to comment

- Pick on CCC and her posse gots her back, Yo!

 

It's interesting that you say this, since RJB43NH brought it up earlier. At the time you posted this there were 99 posts in this thread, made by 43 posters. Of those 99 posts I gleaned the following:

 

4 posters defended CCC.

14 posters strongly felt that what she did was wrong.

25 posters were largely neutral on whether she was right or wrong.

 

You might come up with a slightly different count, depending on your definition of neutral. Still, this hardly looks like a posse riding in to smother the opposition.

Link to comment
CheshireFrog-
(NotNutts @ Aug 21 2006, 06:50 AM) * - Pick on CCC and her posse gots her back, Yo!
"It's interesting that you say this, since RJB43NH brought it up earlier."
Just for the record, I didn't bring this up but was quoting what a moderator said in post #94. I do agree that in this thread, as well as others where CCCA's name comes up, there are those posters who will blindly try to defend whatever she may or may not have done while trying to flame the messenger.
Link to comment

I wish that this cache was local so I could go replace the logs so everyone would be happy!

 

This is supposed to be fun! Remember?

 

Sorry, but this looks like the best place to ask my stoopid n00b question. There's some comments about someone other than the cache owner replacing the logbook if they find t's full.

 

If i'm reading the thread correctly, we are talking about a micro. Question: If someone other than the owner replaces the full logbook, what do you do with the old logbook?

Link to comment

I wish that this cache was local so I could go replace the logs so everyone would be happy!

 

This is supposed to be fun! Remember?

 

Sorry, but this looks like the best place to ask my stoopid n00b question. There's some comments about someone other than the cache owner replacing the logbook if they find t's full.

 

If i'm reading the thread correctly, we are talking about a micro. Question: If someone other than the owner replaces the full logbook, what do you do with the old logbook?

 

I usually just mention it in the log that I replaced it, then email the owner saying I have the old one if they're interested in reading it. Usually they tell me to just toss it, but on two separate occassions, I have been asked to just take photos of each log entry and email it to them. No big deal either way.

Link to comment
... So I guess if a cache owner doesn't maintain the cache, it can continue to exist, no matter how horribly maintained, until someone submits the SBA log. Thanks for the clarification.

You know, your statements are much more angsty and divisive than you claim them to be.

 

From the replies in this thread, I've learned a few things about the specific issue.

  • A cache was found with a full log book.
  • A 'needs maintenance' log was made.
  • The 'needs maintenance' log was deleted by the owner, who left a note that you found the wrong cache.
  • There were previos logs that mentioned the original, stuck container. You didn't know about the issue, so left the 'NM'.
  • Since the maintenance you requested didn't technically need to be made (although I'm sure she wishes you had stuck the old cache in your pocket), she deleted your 'NM' log and posted a note.
  • I suspect that her note on the cache page was in lieu of sending you an email as requested by several people in this thread.
  • The only thing I can tell that she did wrong is that she didn't clear the 'needs maintenance' attribute. I suspect that she didn't because she intends to head out and see if she can extract the original cache.
  • This belief coincides with why I think she deleted the 'NM' log on the other cache without clearing the 'NM' attribute. Both caches still require maintenance which she apparently intends on providing (or else she would have cleared the sttributes). By deleting the logs, she helps out those of us who download their target caches in PQs because it allows us one more good log on the cache. We don't require the log because the needed maintenance is not a fun killer and the attribute is still present.

Link to comment
Sorry, but this looks like the best place to ask my stoopid n00b question. There's some comments about someone other than the cache owner replacing the logbook if they find t's full.

 

If i'm reading the thread correctly, we are talking about a micro. Question: If someone other than the owner replaces the full logbook, what do you do with the old logbook?

I usually just mention it in the log that I replaced it, then email the owner saying I have the old one if they're interested in reading it. Usually they tell me to just toss it, but on two separate occassions, I have been asked to just take photos of each log entry and email it to them. No big deal either way.

You can also mail it to them, if you are unlikely to run in to them at an event.

Link to comment

I'm sure if you'd email her, she could provide an explanation on why she removed it, which I'm sure is something perfectly reasonable as mentioned above, and not that she's a big jerk and hates you for logging a NM log. How dare you!

 

We're pretty friendly around these here central PA parts. I'd probably have sent you a quick email saying something like "thanks, but I'm going to remove the NM log since you mention it it your found it log and just leave the attribute and replace the logsheet later" but not everyone does that and she might just assume that it's obvious what she's doing.

 

**unbunches panties** Ahhh....that's better, and much more comfortable.

Link to comment

You can also mail it to them, if you are unlikely to run in to them at an event.

 

Mail? As in snail mail? How quaint. How retro. How very 90's. :shocked:

 

Yeah, I could do that, but I think the point is they just want to read the logs, and don't really care about having the actual physical logbook. At least no one has ever actually wanted it.

 

Yeah, that's OT. What of it?

Link to comment

- Pick on CCC and her posse gots her back, Yo!

 

It's interesting that you say this, since RJB43NH brought it up earlier. At the time you posted this there were 99 posts in this thread, made by 43 posters. Of those 99 posts I gleaned the following:

 

4 posters defended CCC.

14 posters strongly felt that what she did was wrong.

25 posters were largely neutral on whether she was right or wrong.

 

You might come up with a slightly different count, depending on your definition of neutral. Still, this hardly looks like a posse riding in to smother the opposition.

Actually, I was just trying to sound cool. A better way to say it would be 'mention CCCA and expect a firestorm (from both sides)'

Link to comment
... So I guess if a cache owner doesn't maintain the cache, it can continue to exist, no matter how horribly maintained, until someone submits the SBA log. Thanks for the clarification.

You know, your statements are much more angsty and divisive than you claim them to be.

 

From the replies in this thread, I've learned a few things about the specific issue.

  • A cache was found with a full log book.
  • A 'needs maintenance' log was made.
  • The 'needs maintenance' log was deleted by the owner, who left a note that you found the wrong cache.
  • There were previos logs that mentioned the original, stuck container. You didn't know about the issue, so left the 'NM'.
  • Since the maintenance you requested didn't technically need to be made (although I'm sure she wishes you had stuck the old cache in your pocket), she deleted your 'NM' log and posted a note.
  • I suspect that her note on the cache page was in lieu of sending you an email as requested by several people in this thread.
  • The only thing I can tell that she did wrong is that she didn't clear the 'needs maintenance' attribute. I suspect that she didn't because she intends to head out and see if she can extract the original cache.
  • This belief coincides with why I think she deleted the 'NM' log on the other cache without clearing the 'NM' attribute. Both caches still require maintenance which she apparently intends on providing (or else she would have cleared the sttributes). By deleting the logs, she helps out those of us who download their target caches in PQs because it allows us one more good log on the cache. We don't require the log because the needed maintenance is not a fun killer and the attribute is still present.

 

This is correct for one of the caches. There were two caches involved.

Link to comment
From the replies in this thread, I've learned a few things about the specific issue.
  • The only thing I can tell that she did wrong is that she didn't clear the 'needs maintenance' attribute. I suspect that she didn't because she intends to head out and see if she can extract the original cache.
  • This belief coincides with why I think she deleted the 'NM' log on the other cache without clearing the 'NM' attribute. Both caches still require maintenance which she apparently intends on providing (or else she would have cleared the sttributes). By deleting the logs, she helps out those of us who download their target caches in PQs because it allows us one more good log on the cache. We don't require the log because the needed maintenance is not a fun killer and the attribute is still present.

This is correct for one of the caches. There were two caches involved.

Take another look at the last bullet.

Link to comment

I shortly received notice that my "needs maintenence" logs were deleted by CCCooperAgency. I can only conclude that they don't want Groundspeak to see that their cache is in need of maintenence. Otherwise, WHY DELETE THEM?

 

Ummmm.......did you stop to think that maybe CCCooperAgency paid a maintenance visit and fixed the problem?

 

If someone posted a NM on one of my caches, that is exactly what I would do - fix the problem and either delete the NM or change it to a find.

Link to comment

According to the Cache Listing Requirements/Guidelines on the web site, a cache owner is responsible "for the placement and care of your cache". We were in Lancaster, PA last week and did a dozen or so caches there. I came across two different caches both placed by the same cacher (CCCooperAgency) who seems does not want to spend the time maintaining his caches. I posted a found log in both caches (GCQYNN and GCM4FE) and then I posted a "needs maintenence" log for both of them because the logs for both of them were full. I shortly received notice that my "needs maintenence" logs were deleted by CCCooperAgency. I can only conclude that they don't want Groundspeak to see that their cache is in need of maintenence. Otherwise, WHY DELETE THEM? Myabe they don't understand their commitment to the game.

I e-mailed my local reviewer explaining the situation (not expecting him to be able to resolve the situation, but hoping he would pass along the e-mail to whomever it needed to go to). I have not gotten a response from him or anyone else about it.

 

The question is, what can be done about cachers who are not playing by the rules and not maintaining their caches? I don't think we need a vice squad or anything like that, but perhaps not being able to delete a "needs maintenence" log would help in this situation. It is cachers like this who are turning this sport bad. I hope there is someway to nip this in the bud.

 

I hate with a passion the Needs Maintenance logs and the SBA logs. My experience is 100% either ignorance or abuse by those who use the logs. Finders can email me first and let me know what's up. Failing that they can post their finds logs and I'll read them and note the condition of the cache. The SBA and NM logs are nothing more than a slap in the face to an active cache owner. Before you go over the cache owners head, you should try to contact the cache owner. Simple as that. It's common courtesy. If and only if that doesn't work do you use those log types.

 

Deleting them alerts a reviewer regardless of the action taken by the cache owner.

 

Lastly I maintain my caches on my schedule since I am responsible. End of story. That's not your schedule, that's not this sites schedule, or anyone elses schedule. If you don't like my schedule, then you should live my life. This summer there has been a death in the family, we have had to buy a house on a short schedule, my son has had an operation and any number of other stupid and annoying minor things that have taken up all my time. There hasn't been much time for caches, maintaining them and the like. I don't feel the need to explain that to people who love that SBA and NM button. It's None of their dadgum business and it's enough to know that when I say I'll get to it, I will. Just not this year.

 

Since you did mention CCCoopers caches. Suffice it to say that their life has taken a few twists and turns as well. Lighten Up. The world does not stop over a full log book. Next time offer to trade out the log book for an empty one (or just do it) and offer to mail the full one to the owner. Maybe just maybe that would be a nice thing to do and a harried cache owner can appreciate the kindness shown by a cacher.

Link to comment

You can also mail it to them, if you are unlikely to run in to them at an event.

 

Mail? As in snail mail? How quaint. How retro. How very 90's. :shocked:

 

Yeah, I could do that, but I think the point is they just want to read the logs, and don't really care about having the actual physical logbook. At least no one has ever actually wanted it.

 

Yeah, that's OT. What of it?

 

I'm one of the ones that would ask you to mail it to me. My experience is mixed as is yours. One asked me to mail it. Others said "toss it" and I mailed it anyway. I've never had anyone chew my butt for mailing them a full log.

Link to comment

Why is it rude if it is my cache page and I don't want to discourage others from coming to the cache or the log is incorrect such as the cache that was replaced by another?

 

Why would I want to go to your cahce if the log was too full to sign? It would be just be a waste of time. It is rude to knowingly waste the time of another person, yes?

Link to comment
Why is it rude if it is my cache page and I don't want to discourage others from coming to the cache or the log is incorrect such as the cache that was replaced by another?
Why would I want to go to your cahce if the log was too full to sign? It would be just be a waste of time. It is rude to knowingly waste the time of another person, yes?

Actually, that's about the least irritating maintenance item I can think of. I can always drop in a business card or a new logsheet and happily claim my find.

Link to comment

Why is it rude if it is my cache page and I don't want to discourage others from coming to the cache or the log is incorrect such as the cache that was replaced by another?

 

Why would I want to go to your cahce if the log was too full to sign? It would be just be a waste of time. It is rude to knowingly waste the time of another person, yes?

 

If you read the entire thread, you would see that I would delete the log after I maintained the cache so it wasn't a waste of your time. Um, also, the cache in question is two feet from a parking lot and ten feet from the entrance of a unimart. Perhaps I would ask for a sales receipt or piece of paper to replace the log.

Link to comment
The SBA and NM logs are nothing more than a slap in the face to an active cache owner.

 

That is one of the most ridiculious statements I've ever read here. The SBA and NM logs are nothing more than tools provided by this website to address certain situations with caches. Its posts like this that discourage some people from using these tools as intended. I've received several NM logs for my caches. Rather than taking them as a slap in the face, I took them as a call to go out and fix my cache.

 

As an owner I appreciate these log types because I may miss the mention of a full log book or wet contents buried in the text of a Found It log.

 

Only someone who is overly defensive would take offense at the proper use of these tools.

Link to comment

Why is it rude if it is my cache page and I don't want to discourage others from coming to the cache or the log is incorrect such as the cache that was replaced by another?

 

Why would I want to go to your cahce if the log was too full to sign? It would be just be a waste of time. It is rude to knowingly waste the time of another person, yes?

 

If you read the entire thread, you would see that I would delete the log after I maintained the cache so it wasn't a waste of your time. Um, also, the cache in question is two feet from a parking lot and ten feet from the entrance of a unimart. Perhaps I would ask for a sales receipt or piece of paper to replace the log.

 

If you waited till after the maintenence to delete the log, then our views are closer than I thought. Have a nice day then.

Link to comment

Why is it rude if it is my cache page and I don't want to discourage others from coming to the cache or the log is incorrect such as the cache that was replaced by another?

 

Why would I want to go to your cahce if the log was too full to sign? It would be just be a waste of time. It is rude to knowingly waste the time of another person, yes?

Well that's just silly. Is signing the log book the only reason you cache? :huh:

Edited by wimseyguy
Link to comment

Why is it rude if it is my cache page and I don't want to discourage others from coming to the cache or the log is incorrect such as the cache that was replaced by another?

 

Why would I want to go to your cahce if the log was too full to sign? It would be just be a waste of time. It is rude to knowingly waste the time of another person, yes?

Well that's just silly. Is signing the log book the only reason you cache? :huh:

 

No. But with plenty of caches in the area, why would I not wait for this one to be ready when I get there? Yes I enjoy the hike, but if I can't sign the log, then it is not a real find. Why spend time doing that when I can hike to a cache that has room on the log?

Link to comment
The SBA and NM logs are nothing more than tools provided by this website to address certain situations with caches.

Can I get an "Amen"? Testify!

(uh, Brian? Can we get that added to the list of approved complimentary phrases?)

 

I also think RK has a valid point, in that sometimes these tools are used when other means to accomplish the same goal are available. Is it rude to delete an accurate NM log? It's been made abundantly clear in this thread that rudeness is in the eye of the beholder. I think it is rude, but then again, my opinion and $7 will get you a cup of something vaguely resembling coffee at Starbucks. Could it also be seen as rude to submit a NM log for something as simple as a full log? That could also be effectively argued.

 

I've only utilized the NM button once in my brief geocareer, and that was on an ammo can in a wetlands that had lost it's water resistant properties. Everything inside was a uniform rusty, soggy mess, and it's condition had been mentioned by previous finders. Even then I felt somewhat guilty posting a NM log. Not sure why. Maybe I'm just naturally non-confrontational? :huh:

 

Edit to add:

Ed, I got your E-mail. Thanx Brother!

Edited by Clan Riffster
Link to comment

I shortly received notice that my "needs maintenence" logs were deleted by CCCooperAgency. I can only conclude that they don't want Groundspeak to see that their cache is in need of maintenence. Otherwise, WHY DELETE THEM?

 

Ummmm.......did you stop to think that maybe CCCooperAgency paid a maintenance visit and fixed the problem?

 

If someone posted a NM on one of my caches, that is exactly what I would do - fix the problem and either delete the NM or change it to a find.

 

Ummmm........did you ever think that the next cacher who found the cache said the log was full too?

 

Ummmm........if she is such a great on the ball person with geocaching, why did she not clear the needs maintenance attribute after doing the maintenance?

Link to comment
It is cachers like this who are turning this sport bad. I hope there is someway to nip this in the bud.

 

Um, SHE is one of our most respected geocachers, and her hides, along with her 15,000+ finds logged, may qualify her as the most experienced and highest finder in the world.

 

I know her personally to be honest and reputable, and have to ask if there is not more to this than was explained.

 

Lastly, replacing a full log, just dropping a new one in the cache, is standard operating procedure and one small way you can actually be of benefit to your caching community. :huh:

 

Ed

 

I don't know about "most respected"or "most-experienced" but there can be little doubt that she has the most apologists.

Link to comment
I hate with a passion the Needs Maintenance logs and the SBA logs. <snip>

 

Deleting them alerts a reviewer regardless of the action taken by the cache owner.

A point of clarification. Once again, as I have already said, only the SBA (Should Be Archived) logs are sent to the reviewers to alert them of an issue with a cache. Needs Maintenance logs are not sent to the reviewers.

 

What this thread needs is a derailment.jpg

No kidding.

 

I am truly amazed at some of the borderline comments some of you are saying to each other after I have already dished out some pretty strong warnings. I would say that the steak (the topic) is medium well at this point. If the heat on the grill stays on high and the smarmy comments continue, it is getting close to being done.

Link to comment

I see no problem with a valid NM log. This, to me, reflects a sticky note on the landlord's door saying the light in the hallway is out. Fix the problem, throw away the sticky note (delete NM log). A courtesy call to the poster (email) saying "got it fixed, thanks for bringing this to my attention would not be out of line, and would let the poster know why the NM was deleted. There is no reason to clutter the log page if the problem doesn't exist, is there?

 

I have gleaned from these posts that carrying a new log or two is a great idea. If the logbook is full, put a new one in, leave the old if space available, and just let the owner know what you did when you post your found it log. If space not available, take the old and let the owner know you have it, in post or email. If the cost of a logbook is out of reach, perhaps the gas you spend caching could have been better used getting to work!

 

I think that an SBA would be needed only if the owner refused to maintain the cache, like in maybe 6 consecutive NMs and the owner no longer active. Then, it would be time to let the reviewers know there may be a problem. Car wrecks, heart attacks, and military deployments happen, such is life. But now, perhaps the cache could be placed for adoption, and the new owner check it.

 

This said, how can I put this topic on "ignore" so it stops coming up in the new posts?

Thanks all, cache safely.

Link to comment

The funny thing about all this chatter is that CCCA spends so much time caching that she's rarely in the forums, and is probably blissfully unaware of the temepst in a teacup raging in this thread. Maybe she was having a bad day when she deleted the logs. Maybe she deleted them because of some confusion. And maybe she just deleted them because she didn't want to deal with them. I don't know. Whatever the reason, whether she should have or not she did. Ok, so she deleted logs. The maintenance flags are still set, and I'm sure the caches will get their maintenance or be archived by CCCA soon enough. She takes care of business, one way or the other. Maybe it won't be today, or tomorrow, or even this week. But it'll get done. And even if it doesn't, there are still plenty of other caches left to find.

 

Now back to our regularly scheduled sniping contest topic...

Link to comment

I was under the impression that a NM log meant that the cache needs some sort of maintenance. Is a full logbook NOT a maintenance-worthy situation (especially in micros/nanos)? :huh:

 

I would NOT be mad if somebody hit the NM on one of my caches when the logbook was full, that would let me (and other cachers) know the status of the cache.

I WOULD be upset if somebody "picked up" my logbook for me and replaced it with a new one, that is something I would not particularly appreciate. Especially with my micro logbooks, they are handcrafted to fit the container and are somewhat 'artistic', so anything else that replaced it would not 'suit' me. The gesture of log replacement in and of itself would be kind, but I'd MUCH rather just have the cacher let me know that it needs to be replaced so I can do it myself.

 

I don't really see the reason to delete a valid NM log once the maintenance has been performed. Simply hit the Owner Maintenance log, write that you maintained the cache/replaced the log. That will show everyone what a good owner you are, you took care of the situation in a timely manner, etc. Nothing wrong with that!

Link to comment

Interesting read -- scary when it gets personal...

 

1. Is is rude to post a NM after logging a Find? (i.e. Two seperate logs in a row.) I have done this many times thinking they are two different topics. One about the adventure of my hunt, and the other is a call for help to the cache. In fact, I have then waited about a month and a half and then posted a third Archive log.

 

2. I have only 4 hides, but I am considering what a maximum amount should be. (I check my caches even if nobody has posted anything about them) I know, everyone should set their own limits, but maybe there should be a maximum number? Realistically, there has got to be an ideal number. Sure there can be exceptions, but then the reviewer for the area should make sure that a person with an exception is doing a good job. If a person got to their maximum # of caches, maybe they could go back and get rid of the magnet rail, street lamp cover, and/or transformer altoid tin cache and replace it with something more creative.

 

3. I get a little freaked out when someone deletes my log and does not tell me why. It's like they threw my work away. It has only happened twice and once was a mistake -- the other time was when I saw it just before they typed a private letter to me...

Link to comment
The SBA and NM logs are nothing more than a slap in the face to an active cache owner.

 

That is one of the most ridiculious statements I've ever read here. The SBA and NM logs are nothing more than tools provided by this website to address certain situations with caches. Its posts like this that discourage some people from using these tools as intended. I've received several NM logs for my caches. Rather than taking them as a slap in the face, I took them as a call to go out and fix my cache.

 

As an owner I appreciate these log types because I may miss the mention of a full log book or wet contents buried in the text of a Found It log.

 

Only someone who is overly defensive would take offense at the proper use of these tools.

 

Your voiceis a tool by which you can communicate. You can talk to the person directly or you can go around behind their back and badmouth them. You can go over someones head. You can yell, scream, be nice, caustic and so on. A voice is a tool for communications. Like any tool it can be abused. It's not any different than how these logs are used and percieved. In my case they have not been used correctly yet. I truly do hate those log types with a passion. They make me cringe just to see the email subject line. It's like being yelled at at work for making a mistake in front of all your co-workers. They are shared with the world and your approver after all.

 

As an owner I appreicate an email and a regular log. There is no information that you can put into an SBA and NM Log that you could not also email in a note or point out politly in a standard log. You should always start politly and save the heavy hitting logs for later.

 

SBA AND NM LOGS ARE THE LOG EQUIVILENT OF ALL CAPS TYPING.

 

P.S. If that's one of the most ridiculious statements you have ever read in the forums then you just don't have enough of a posting history.

Edited by Renegade Knight
Link to comment
I see no problem with a valid NM log. This, to me, reflects a sticky note on the landlord's door saying the light in the hallway is out. Fix the problem, throw away the sticky note (delete NM log). A courtesy call to the poster (email) saying "got it fixed, thanks for bringing this to my attention would not be out of line, and would let the poster know why the NM was deleted. There is no reason to clutter the log page if the problem doesn't exist, is there?

 

The way the system is designed to work is that JoeCacher posts a Needs Maintenance note for JanOwner's cache. That sets a Needs Maintenace attribute on JanOwner's cache page and she receives an e-mail copy of the Needs Maintenance note.

 

After JanOwner performs the needed maintenance she posts an Owner Maintenance log. This automatically resets the Needs Maintenance attribute.

 

There is no need to delete anything. These logs are all a part of the cache history and belong there as much as any DNF, Note or "Found It'.

Link to comment

I was under the impression that a NM log meant that the cache needs some sort of maintenance. Is a full logbook NOT a maintenance-worthy situation (especially in micros/nanos)? :huh:

 

I would NOT be mad if somebody hit the NM on one of my caches when the logbook was full, that would let me (and other cachers) know the status of the cache.

I WOULD be upset if somebody "picked up" my logbook for me and replaced it with a new one, that is something I would not particularly appreciate. Especially with my micro logbooks, they are handcrafted to fit the container and are somewhat 'artistic', so anything else that replaced it would not 'suit' me. The gesture of log replacement in and of itself would be kind, but I'd MUCH rather just have the cacher let me know that it needs to be replaced so I can do it myself.

 

I don't really see the reason to delete a valid NM log once the maintenance has been performed. Simply hit the Owner Maintenance log, write that you maintained the cache/replaced the log. That will show everyone what a good owner you are, you took care of the situation in a timely manner, etc. Nothing wrong with that!

 

I forgot to mention that, and I agree -- I would gladly replace a basic log book for someone, but I post a NM for those custom ones -- no way am I going to print a tiny scroll, cut it to size, and then wrap just the right length around a paperclip so it fits in a bolt... They are peices of art craft that to me represent the cache owner.

Link to comment

SBA AND NM LOGS ARE THE LOG EQUIVILENT OF ALL CAPS TYPING.

 

 

Some people type in all caps and don't know that at first becuse it has not been explained to them. We have all seen that. I would think logs are no different. I think it is a good practice to not be offended by posts of any kind and first assume fellow geocachers have good intentions.

 

I hope to maintain my caches to a level that I never see the SBA or NM posts in the first place.

 

And, if I got one -- a good slap in the face is what I need now and then -- humility isn't a bad thing for the ego....

Link to comment

I was under the impression that a NM log meant that the cache needs some sort of maintenance. Is a full logbook NOT a maintenance-worthy situation (especially in micros/nanos)? :huh:

 

I would NOT be mad if somebody hit the NM on one of my caches when the logbook was full, that would let me (and other cachers) know the status of the cache.

I WOULD be upset if somebody "picked up" my logbook for me and replaced it with a new one, that is something I would not particularly appreciate. Especially with my micro logbooks, they are handcrafted to fit the container and are somewhat 'artistic', so anything else that replaced it would not 'suit' me. The gesture of log replacement in and of itself would be kind, but I'd MUCH rather just have the cacher let me know that it needs to be replaced so I can do it myself.

 

I don't really see the reason to delete a valid NM log once the maintenance has been performed. Simply hit the Owner Maintenance log, write that you maintained the cache/replaced the log. That will show everyone what a good owner you are, you took care of the situation in a timely manner, etc. Nothing wrong with that!

 

Exactly MountainMudbug. I agree wholeheartedly, including the bit about someone removing a logbook to replace it with a new one. Many of my caches are letterbox hybrids with some creative stamps and drawings in them, I would not want someone taking it home, I would rather replace it myself. Plus, being female, I'm leery of giving out my snail mail address to a stranger so that they can mail it back to me. I really appreciate the NM feature and I take pride as a hider in quickly fixing the problem and posting an Owner Maintenance note. If I can't get to the box in a timely fashion I make a note of it in the log so finders are aware. I also do not see the clutter problem, it's a record of the history of the box.

 

R of JARS

Link to comment
The SBA and NM logs are nothing more than a slap in the face to an active cache owner.

 

I agree with you whole heartedly that a SBA be used very sparingly. Contact the cache owner first if you think there is a problem with their cache. See what they have to say before causing a commotion.

 

As far as the NM log goes, why would this be taken as a slap in the face? All regular caches are going to need maintenance sooner or later. I know that a maintenance issue can be stated in the "found" or "dnf" log but it's still not a big deal if a "needs maintenance" log comes in.

 

And for the record, we had a NM log come in on one of our caches after hurricane Rita went through last year. It worked the way it was supposed to do and got my attention quickly. Oh, and it certainly didn't offend me in any way.

Link to comment
I don't really see the reason to delete a valid NM log once the maintenance has been performed. Simply hit the Owner Maintenance log, write that you maintained the cache/replaced the log. That will show everyone what a good owner you are, you took care of the situation in a timely manner, etc. Nothing wrong with that!

 

It also shows if you are a neglectful owner, which is what I think the rub is for some people.

Link to comment

The way the system is designed to work is that JoeCacher posts a Needs Maintenance note for JanOwner's cache. That sets a Needs Maintenace attribute on JanOwner's cache page and she receives an e-mail copy of the Needs Maintenance note.

 

After JanOwner performs the needed maintenance she posts an Owner Maintenance log. This automatically resets the Needs Maintenance attribute.

 

There is no need to delete anything. These logs are all a part of the cache history and belong there as much as any DNF, Note or "Found It'.

 

Well that sums it all up. This is how it should work. What am I supposed to say..... Briansnat is the MAN!! or something to that effect.....

 

But with that being said....once we logged a DNF on a cache and the owner checked it and wrote us an email saying the cache was still there and he was deleting our DNF ;) He said something about it messing up his GSAK filter and he did not want his cache to have DNF's.....B) B)

 

I did not (still do not) get it and I let the log stay deleted and still have never gone back to find that cache. :huh:

 

So maybe this cache owner has the same concern that they do not want the NM log and subsequent OM logs to mess up their GSAK filter.....it does make the action of deleting the log any less rude.

Edited by ParentsofSAM
Link to comment
The SBA and NM logs are nothing more than a slap in the face to an active cache owner.

 

I agree with you whole heartedly that a SBA be used very sparingly. Contact the cache owner first if you think there is a problem with their cache. See what they have to say before causing a commotion.

 

As far as the NM log goes, why would this be taken as a slap in the face? All regular caches are going to need maintenance sooner or later. I know that a maintenance issue can be stated in the "found" or "dnf" log but it's still not a big deal if a "needs maintenance" log comes in.

 

And for the record, we had a NM log come in on one of our caches after hurricane Rita went through last year. It worked the way it was supposed to do and got my attention quickly. Oh, and it certainly didn't offend me in any way.

 

Amen.

 

I don't see how saying - "hey cacher - your cache needs a new log" is a slap in the face.

I'm glad the majority of you all think the NM logs are helpful and useful.

Link to comment

 

That is one of the most ridiculious statements I've ever read here. The SBA and NM logs are nothing more than tools provided by this website to address certain situations with caches. Its posts like this that discourage some people from using these tools as intended. I've received several NM logs for my caches. Rather than taking them as a slap in the face, I took them as a call to go out and fix my cache.

 

As an owner I appreciate these log types because I may miss the mention of a full log book or wet contents buried in the text of a Found It log.

 

Only someone who is overly defensive would take offense at the proper use of these tools.

 

P.S. If that's one of the most ridiculious statements you have ever read in the forums then you just don't have enough of a posting history.

 

Did you really say that briansnat's 19000 posts aren't enough of a history? Sorry - OT.

Link to comment

I hate with a passion the Needs Maintenance logs and the SBA logs. My experience is 100% either ignorance or abuse by those who use the logs. Finders can email me first and let me know what's up. Failing that they can post their finds logs and I'll read them and note the condition of the cache. The SBA and NM logs are nothing more than a slap in the face to an active cache owner. Before you go over the cache owners head, you should try to contact the cache owner. Simple as that. It's common courtesy. If and only if that doesn't work do you use those log types.

 

 

I posted one here for the first time - http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...53-0f909aa2ede8

 

Does that strike you as unjust? I did so in order to alert other potential finders as well as the owner. Sure I could have just logged it, but I think a lot of people don't read the logs before attempting a hunt. I was actually unsure if I should have done an SBA, but that does seem kinda strong. Looks like the owner has not logged in for over a year, so the chances these are orphaned and the owner would not reply quickly are pretty high, so I did a NM log at the very least.

Link to comment
I don't really see the reason to delete a valid NM log once the maintenance has been performed. Simply hit the Owner Maintenance log, write that you maintained the cache/replaced the log. That will show everyone what a good owner you are, you took care of the situation in a timely manner, etc. Nothing wrong with that!

 

It also shows if you are a neglectful owner, which is what I think the rub is for some people.

 

Who is ultimately responsible for the state of the cache? The owner, of course. If one is not taking care of one's caches and somebody else brings it up in a NM log, one hardly has the right to get bent about it and take it out on the NM logger. :huh:

(If I'm understanding your statement correctly)

Link to comment

And for the record, we had a NM log come in on one of our caches after hurricane Rita went through last year. It worked the way it was supposed to do and got my attention quickly. Oh, and it certainly didn't offend me in any way.

 

That was a year ago! I thought NM logs were new. And this is the first time I ever heard of the Maintenance Performed log. Maybe others have a long learning curve too?

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Followers 6
×
×
  • Create New...