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Caches Stuffed With Religious Propaganda...


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Just curious about this:

 

I've found a dozen or so caches now, and a couple of those have been stuffed to the gills with religious propaganda. Now, I'm not talking the odd rosary or church card, etc. I understand those are mementos of past visits, and might be interesting treasures for a future finder. What I'm talking about is finding multiple pamphlets someone stuffed in the same cache, apparently to tell me that I'm going to hell for not agreeing with him. You know the kind... real fire-and-brimstone stuff telling us we'd better be born again or else. Someone in my area has obviously made it their mission to seed local caches with this stuff.

 

Now, everyone has their beliefs and that's cool. Using what is supposed to be a fun and harmless game/hobby as a forum for this kind of prostelytizing just strikes me as really inappropriate, though. I equate it with a paper version of spam email, and my first inclination is to treat it the same way and "delete" it, but it's not my stuff and it's not my cache. Just wondering if there's any guidelines on this, as I'm apparently likely to see it again in this area.

 

Thanks,

Joe

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I own this cache which is on top of a historic scenic hill that also has crosses on it and is a popular pilgramage site. I didn't place the cache for religious purposes but for the hike and the view. It is a big hill and the cache is well away from the cross area. I did give acknowlegdement on the cache page to the annual pilgramage due to it's historic significance in our area.

 

That said, I constantly find religious pamphlets in the cache. These are not ones cachers brought with them. They can be found laying around the crosses and some cachers pick them up and put them in the cache. I regularily check on it and clean it out. Any other place I would be irritated. Here, I guess it goes with the location.

 

I still think is in inappropriate. This would also include political and social cause material. They don't belong in this game. If you find them....trash them.

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From the guidlines for placing a cache

 

Solicitations are also off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

 

A cache is not the place to pimp ones aganda

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From the guidlines for placing a cache

 

Solicitations are also off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

 

A cache is not the place to pimp ones aganda

Nobody said yet that the cache hider placed these items. Some geocachers leave such pamphlets in every cache they visit.

 

If the entire cache consists of such material, placed by the owner, then feel free to raise a complaint about the guideline violation.

 

If it appears that a later finder left the materials, and they are "stuffing" the cache, I will leave one or two copies and remove all the others to make room for a greater variety of trade items. Often they are wet and can rightly be removed as trash. I can be politically correct when relying on those reasons.

 

If there is one or two copies of a tract in a cache full of other stuff, I just ignore them. They don't bother me unless they're wet or in my way of closing the cache back up.

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Boy, I'm really glad to see this topic being so pasionately and respectfully discussed. How's about we switch topics for a bit and talk about leaving child porn in caches? Oh, don't like that, eh? Well how's bouts political solicitations or literature promoting the Nazi Party in America? Crimminie sakes! :(

Edited by Team Cotati
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I might return at a later date and leave pamplets for the first church of satan

 

A cache is not the place to pimp ones aganda

 

I find the religious tracts particularly useful when out hiking in the wilderness as I often forget to bring toilet paper. My biggest gripe is with those skin-flint religious groups who choose to use the cheaper slick paper, as it is much less absorbent.

 

I just love how the discussion of a few silly tracts in a cache, turns into a bash on religion. :P Real classy :(

 

 

If it appears that a later finder left the materials, and they are "stuffing" the cache, I will leave one or two copies and remove all the others to make room for a greater variety of trade items. Often they are wet and can rightly be removed as trash. I can be politically correct when relying on those reasons.

 

If there is one or two copies of a tract in a cache full of other stuff, I just ignore them. They don't bother me unless they're wet or in my way of closing the cache back up.

 

Finally, an appropriate response :P

 

Even though I consider myself a Christian, I still remove tracts when I find them. In 766 caches, I found them two times.

Edited by Kit Fox
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Trade up, trade even, or don't trade at all.

Well, a package of tracts probably costs about a dollar, some more, some less, some free to all who want them...

 

So take the whole bunch if you want to and trade a "where's George" or a couple of state quarters.

 

Problem solved.

 

I encountered one cache that was totally put out to advance the political cause of no nukes (BTW it was buried) Just a tupperware bowl full of WET trash paper buried in the ground. Violated several guidelines. Seems nobody traded anything in it. Few visited it. I guess the propagandist REALLY made a point, huh? (gone for a while now)

 

It happens. Not too much reason to get upset about it.

 

Trade 'em out if you want, ignore 'em if you want, but don't lose any sleep over it. When God wants to reach you, He will. THEN you gotta decide. It is all about HIM.

Edited by Confuse-A-Cat
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I find the religious tracts particularly useful when out hiking in the wilderness as I often forget to bring toilet paper. My biggest gripe is with those skin-flint religious groups who choose to use the cheaper slick paper, as it is much less absorbent.

 

:P:(:P

 

There's a special place down below reserved just for you, brother!

I have a problem with the *staples*

AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

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MY 2 cents worth. I am a bornagain Christian that loves to share my faith, with someone that wants to hear it. If you don't want to hear my testamony then I am being a PITN and I don't want to do that. I believe that " those convinced against their will, are of the same opinion still" Put this way, they just agree to shut you up. I will NEVER believe that certain behaviors are OK. just as those not seeking will agree with ANY form of social, political, religious arm twisting will bring about the desired change. Sooooo, share but don't shove your social, political, religious beliefs on me or others.

 

Editing for spelling

Edited by Lowsky
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MY 2 cents worth. I am a bornagain Christian that loves to share my faith, with someone that wants to hear it. If you don't want to hear my testamony then I am being a PITN and I don't want to do that. I believe that " those convinced against their will, are of the same opinion still" Put this way, they just agree to shut you up. I will NEVER belive that certain behaviors are OK. just as those not seeking will agree with ANY form of social, political, religious arm twisting will bring about the desired change. Sooooo, share but don't shove your social, political, religious beliefs on me or others.

Amen! Preach it, Brother!

:(

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So now the "SOP" is to throw away anything in the cache we don't personally like?

How about if you don't want it, don't take it. Just my 2 cents :(

No, but there is nothing wrong with trading it out just like any other item Personally I have no problem with someone leaving a religious tract in a cache. I'm not a "believer", but I figure maybe someone else may appreciate the item. I've even left one behind in my own cache after maint trip, as I saw no reason to remove it.

 

Seeing a religious tract doesn't offend me. Heck, I've even been known to actually read the things (I find those Chick tracts to be hilarious). My eyes aren't going to fall out after seeing them and I'm secure enough in what I believe that I have no fear that I'm going to be converted.

 

Now "stuffing a cache to the gills" with anything is problematic for me, whether its religious tracts, Starbucks coupons or Beanie Babies. I'd be sure to trade out the item and I'd consider a large stack of religious tracts to be a single item when it comes to trading.

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This is definitely a subject to avoid, but I guess I have to live up to my name.

My instinct would be that if I discovered a cache had been "stuffed" with anything, pamphlet or whatever, I'd remove most of them so the cache wasn't a mess for the next person.

If it was just the content of the pamphlet that was questionable, I'd let the owner know and leave it up to him to remove it or not.

Being a devout, hardcore atheist, I'd remove such drivel from my own caches, but even I wouldn't have the dinobalz to remove something from someone else's cache just because I disagreed with it.

Edited by dinobalz
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The opportunities God gives us to preach to the one's who DO want to hear it are plentiful.

 

There is no use wasting time (our most valuable asset) on those who do not. As the Book says, if they do not welcome you, shake the dust off your feet as you leave. (Matthew 10:14)

 

I am NOT a fan of tracts. With RARE exceptions they are distasteful, scare mongering, and some even gorey. If you do not want them, they are trash. Many are NOT suitable for children due to the gorey pictures. The same people who leave them would be shocked to see the same pictures on Rotten.Com.

 

The people who distribute them do so with the understanding that MANY will be trashed. If even one of them causes someone to think, they have done their job. I guess it is a fair tactic, but not one I persoanlly favour.

 

In fairness, there are SOME good tracts that do not SHOVE or SCARE but just present the Gospel. The distinction is probably not readilt apparent to the people who would object to finding them in a cache, so I would still only use them in specifically themed caches- if at all.

 

Caching is really not a proper venue for proselytizing IMHO.

 

As far as putting them in caches, for onesie twosie I say (reservedly) OK; for a bunch, you're hogging precious cache space- STOP THAT.

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IMO, if we get rid of tracts, we need to get rid of the Jeep TB-they have an 'agenda' too.

 

My question is, what about a puzzle cache that uses the Bible, and maybe even ends on Church grounds? I had one of these ready to go in Biloxi, pre Katrina. I thought it was well done (sufficiently challenging to be fun) and, with no quid pro quo, within guidelines. It contained a good mix of items, not just religious. What do you folks think?

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My question is, what about a puzzle cache that uses the Bible, and maybe even ends on Church grounds? <snip> What do you folks think?

I remember a thread in "getting started" a while back that discussed using the bible for a puzzle cache. I believe that is was fine to do that, the bible is a book that most people can get their hands on and use for solving the puzzle. I think using the cache itself as a religious platform is where there might be a guideline violation.

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I agree with Sky Cop. I really don't need you to protect me from pieces of paper in a cache. If you find a knife, or a bomb, or a live scorpion, feel free to save me. Otherwise, I can think for myself, thank you very much.

I'm not doing it to protect you.

 

This is geocaching and I'm trading their religious tracts with my own.

 

 

 

 

PS - I'm an agnostic/athiest.

Edited by ju66l3r
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IMO, if we get rid of tracts, we need to get rid of the Jeep TB-they have an 'agenda' too.

 

My question is, what about a puzzle cache that uses the Bible, and maybe even ends on Church grounds? I had one of these ready to go in Biloxi, pre Katrina. I thought it was well done (sufficiently challenging to be fun) and, with no quid pro quo, within guidelines. It contained a good mix of items, not just religious. What do you folks think?

I think, for most involved, is not that someone would put in one pamphlet or even two pamphlets. But if you are going to put multiple pamplhets into a cache, that just becomes advertising and quite honestly, a nuisance.

 

As far as your puzzle cache goes, I would totally do any well planned out puzzle. To most athiest I know, the bible is similar to reading Greek Mythology. Just because we don't believe it as fact, it can still be interesting. As far as ending on church grounds, as long as you have permission and it isn't a dangerous environment, go for it. As long as I'm not required to do confession or become born again to log the find, I'll be logging your cache when I come to your area.

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IMO, if we get rid of tracts, we need to get rid of the Jeep TB-they have an 'agenda' too.

 

My question is, what about a puzzle cache that uses the Bible, and maybe even ends on Church grounds? I had one of these ready to go in Biloxi, pre Katrina. I thought it was well done (sufficiently challenging to be fun) and, with no quid pro quo, within guidelines. It contained a good mix of items, not just religious. What do you folks think?

Sounds like a fine cache.

Sorta like the "Bible Code" perhaps, but not quite so obscure.

 

Using references to a common book is actually quite an old standby coding scheme. The problem comes in when there are more than one edition of the book required for decoding.

 

The Bible is an excellent choice for this operation because it will be very unusual to encounter different words in the same position in different editions; i.e. the references can be very exact by using chapter and verse citations. That is, assuming you use the King James Version- which is most common and only exists in perhaps two or three different revisions.

 

It is also a book you can easily get without cost if you don't have one.

 

Even having a religious themed cache is OK if so stated on the cache page, but it will be a lot more interesting if there is something more than just tracts in it.

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From the guidlines for placing a cache

 

Solicitations are also off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

 

From the same guidelines

 

This is the original cache type consisting of (at a bare minimum) a container and a logbook.

 

I think anything goes as long as the website leans towards one faith, but not another. Even though I usually don't trade, I prefer seeing a pamphlet placed by a religious group to an empty cache box with an empty book placed by some atheist. :P:P:wub::(:P

Edited by cachew nut
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From the guidlines for placing a cache

 

Solicitations are also off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

 

Your first quote is about caches, not the swag.

 

None of us has the right to police another's cache according to our standards or beliefs. You are not obligated to trade anything. Sign the logbook and go.

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MY 2 cents worth. I am a bornagain Christian that loves to share my faith, with someone that wants to hear it. If you don't want to hear my testamony then I am being a PITN and I don't want to do that.  I believe that " those convinced against their will, are of the same opinion still" Put this way, they just agree to shut you up. I will NEVER belive that certain behaviors are OK. just as those not seeking will agree with ANY form of social, political, religious arm twisting will bring about the desired change. Sooooo, share but don't shove your social, political, religious beliefs on me or others.

Amen! Preach it, Brother!

:(

Add my voice to that choir!

 

In college, I participated in a student ministry program--I visited college students who had come to my church for the first time, or hadn't been there for a while. Nothing formal, just a knock on the door some night, a 'hey, care to talk for a while, do you have any questions, here's where to reach me if you do' type of thing. Was very well recieved, sometimes leading to hour-long discussions, sometimes a quick 'thanks for visting' as they shut the door. So, I'm also not against sharing my faith with someone---if they want to hear it.

 

I have traded small religious items in caches--cross necklaces, etc. But I wouldn't leave a tract in a cache--heck, I wouldn't give one out unless it was requested BY THE PERSON. Find one in a cache...I'd probably leave it there. Find a bunch....round file.

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Your first quote is about caches, not the swag.

 

None of us has the right to police another's cache according to our standards or beliefs. You are not obligated to trade anything. Sign the logbook and go.

Yeah. Actually that was someone else's quote above. I just did a poor job quoting the quote. :(

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Your first quote is about caches, not the swag. 

 

None of us has the right to police another's cache according to our standards or beliefs.  You are not obligated to trade anything.  Sign the logbook and go.

Yeah. Actually that was someone else's quote above. I just did a poor job quoting the quote. :(

Don't sweat it CN, you're still on my 'must read' list of posters. :P

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And then there is This Cache. Check out the gallery to see the site. It is a virtual at a gigantic cross. To claim the smilie you must get scripture info off one of the exhibits and send it in. To me caching is a relaxing, fun outdoor sport. I don't want to

 

I pass this structure regularily as a truck driver. I have grabbed other caches in the area but have chosen not to do this one. I don't need another smilie that bad. It is just not a place I care to visit. To me caching is a relaxing, fun outdoor sport. I don't want to confronted with anybody else's agenda while doing it. This includes social and political causes. I do not want to be converted, prayed for, born again or saved. I am fine as I am. God and I will sort it all out in private.

 

Can this cache be construed as "platform for an agenda"? I think yes. If it were a traditional regular cache, I bet it would be stuffed with religious propaganda. How would the GS PTB or other members view a cache at a monument to satanism or the KKK that requires we reference their material to log the visit?

Edited by Ballooner
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I don't like those faith based pamphlets as trade items either. I just trade them out - add a trade item that someone might want for each of the pamphlets and toss um.

Ah, simple. That probably would have occurred to me in another dozen caches or so. :(

 

Thanks, it is the new SOP now.

Some people leave these as their signature item.

 

This solution is the easiest as it follows the generally accepted rules of caching.

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...I pass this structure regularily as a truck driver. I have grabbed other caches in the area but have chosen not to do this one. I don't need another smilie that bad. It is just not a place I care to visit. To me caching is a relaxing, fun outdoor sport. I don't want to confronted with anybody else's agenda while doing it. This includes social and political causes. I do not want to be converted, prayed for, born again or saved. I am fine as I am. God and I will sort it all out in private. ...

Your agenda is showing. :(

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I won't get into my own personal beliefs as that is not what this thread should be about. I have from time to time removed tracts like this from caches I own, but mostly because they are themed caches and religious tracts are not the theme. And yes I also remove other items that do not follow the theme too.

 

When I find these tracts in cache I find that belong to others I often trade for them and leave behind a tract on sweet potatoes, the NC state vegetable. It's full of good nutritional information and recipes. After all don't you want to be in good shape and healthy when you finally get to the head of that line? :(:P

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What is that old saying....One man's trash is another man's treasure?

 

For those of you that are in favor of removing the tracts because they promote an agenda, are you not also promoting your agenda by removing them?

 

Before you say you are promoting the agenda of having a good cache, let me point out that if we romoved everything from a cache that we deemed junk, then 98% of all caches would be empty.

 

El Diablo

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I am surprised at how disrespectful some are you about the things left by others. What if finding all those kids meals toys drove me crazy because McDonalds gave me food poisioning, would it be right for my to remove all kids meal toys, no. I am a preacher but I do not leave anything like that in the caches I have found, nor would it be my job to remove them. Live and let live.

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And then there is This Cache. Check out the gallery to see the site. It is a virtual at a gigantic cross. To claim the smilie you must get scripture info off one of the exhibits and send it in.

Yes, an absolute BUMMER cache.

Surely they could put a film can there somewhere.

 

It amazes me the number of vocal people who want to deny ten thousand years of human culture. (I am not saying you are one of them)

 

This is obviously a Catholic site and is no doubt revered by many. It looks like a neat place. Someone (probably many people) put a lot of work and time into making it for other people to enjoy.

 

It is a very interesting place, far more interesting to me than a lamp-post in Wal-Mart lot.

 

And no, I would not object to a cache at a Nazi memorial or Stonehenge, the pyramids, Mayan temple or anywhere else that required I COPY or photograph or decipher some inscription in the area. That is pretty much SOP in virtual caches.

 

<QUOTE>

TODAY it is my conviction that in general, aside from cases of unusual talent, a man should not engage in public political activity before his thirtieth year.

</QUOTE>

-Adolph Hitler's Mein Kampf

 

Does that make me a Nazi?

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I live in Nova Scotia and these are common in pretty much every cache out here. We ignore them

The OP was talking about a cache being stuffed with them, not just one being left behind. Stuffed is abuse and should be treated as abuse (trash). 1 or 2 left behind is just a callind card.

How do these threads get so blown out of proportion? I'm on several forums and this one takes the cake

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For those of you that are in favor of removing the tracts because they promote an agenda, are you not also promoting your agenda by removing them?

That was already my point entirely.

 

People don't agree with the agenda that those tracts promote.

 

People don't agree with the agenda that a removal of tracts promotes.

 

If I should have to be satisified by the affrontiveness of finding religious tracts in a cache, then those leaving them should have to be satisfied by the affrontiveness of my removing them as well.

 

The big difference between finding them or removing them is that finding them is an unsolicited proselytizing when I go out geocaching. Removing them doesn't result in anything (other than it not being there to affront the next person)...especially if it's a trade, then it's mine anyways and I can do what I please with it.

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