Caches Stuffed With Religious Propaganda...

7.3k · January 22, 2006

5. Athiesism is the ism most vehemently SHOVING their agenda down people throats by attempting to shush all religious expression

Oh please. Give the atheist-bashing a break. Religions are always co-opting governments and using the power of government to shove their beliefs on everyone else.

Don't believe that? Pull out your wallet and look on every dollar bill and coin.

Am I looking for the Christian or Masonic beliefs? <_<

January 22, 2006

I really wanted to be the 100th post.

I got tired of reading after half the first page. Regardless of your beliefs, I think the issue is respect.

Respect the opinions and beliefs of others.

Respect that other may not want to be "convinced" of your beliefs

Respect the guidelines of the activity/sport/hobby of caching and keep agendas to a minimum unless it furthers the basics of geocaching. IE Jeep travel bug are promotional. I would guess they encourage more caching as opposed to more purchase of Jeeps.

7.3k · January 22, 2006

Well now, this looks like the place to ask a question. I lead a teen youth group at Church, and I have introduced them to the joys of caching, complete with the idea of planting their own on Church property (Large wooded lot). In stead of tracts, I am urging them to find objects with religious significance, and that would be actractive to families with children since this will be an easy cache. Two of the items are stuffed bears holding an bible, and a Jesus loves you bouncing ball. There is a two fold purpose in this exercise: 1. Team building 2. Thinking outside the box about their faith and ways to share it with others.

May I have your opinions and suggestions since I am a neophyte myself?

Terry

Lest people think I'm some neo-athiest after all this, I just wanted to offer my two cents on this too, Terry. Sounds great to me! A religious-themed cache on Church property makes perfect sense, it'd be a fun cache for people to find, and most importantly of course, it sounds like a great exercise for the kids. Have fun with it!

Joe

I disagree. Geocaches are not supposed to be vehicles to "share your faith". As I said earlier I do not object to people leaving religious tracts or religious items in caches (as long as they don't overdo it), but when you place a cache you are not supposed to be promoting an agenda. Sharing your faith is an agenda.

Hey, every time I place a cache I have an agenda.

My agenda can be to show you a great view, share some interesting history, take you on a pretty drive, have you go on a long or short relaxing walk, help you to get a quick easy cache while traveling, share a personal story, give you some interesting facts, take you to a secret spot, show a favorite area, or to let you see an unusual thing that you may not know about.

I have lots of agendas. <_<

5.7k · January 22, 2006

An agenda and an objective are two different things.

7.3k · January 22, 2006

Oh, now you did it! Made me go and look it up.

Agenda:

1. A list or program of things to be done or considered

Objective:

1. Something that actually exists.

2. Something worked toward or striven for; a goal.

Now I'm confused.

4.5k · January 22, 2006

Didn't mean to start any kind of religious debate here, guys.

It's wide known that there are two topics that you never bring up in a social situation, Politics and religion. Throughout the centuries millions have died defending both.

By opening this topic you invited points of view and set into motion a debate that will have no good outcome. These types of discussions have a habit of dividing people and that is not what these fourms are about.

El Diablo

You mean like this? Just today I opened this cache and there was no religious tract (after all this is NYC) but this button. The nerve! Who's pushing an agenda? Well!. I struggled but ignored it and I just took a TB I found there from some bloke in England who's only agenda was to get the darm TB around the world because he can't afford the plane ticket. Don't think it has much of a prayer

2.7k · January 23, 2006

...Still waiting for that markwell for the topics about all the caches being stuffed with atheist propaganda.

So I guess I was wrong about this comment being directed to me, or you must have missed my response.

2.7k · January 23, 2006

Oh, now you did it! Made me go and look it up.

Agenda:

1. A list or program of things to be done or considered

Objective:

1. Something that actually exists.

2. Something worked toward or striven for; a goal.

Now I'm confused.

Can I take credit for it?

Oh wait, not a cat...

nevermind

24.7k · January 23, 2006

... Regardless of your beliefs, I think the issue is respect.
Respect the opinions and beliefs of others.

Respect that other may not want to be "convinced" of your beliefs...

Very nice. I agree.

We all have beliefs and agendas, and we all have to respect that others have them as well. Though they may differ and you may not agree, it is entirely possible to accord them respect and courtesy or lacking that at least lend some tolerance. This is nothing more than you expect for your own agenda and beliefs. If you don’t have it to give, you don’t deserve it.

7.3k · January 23, 2006

Oh, now you did it! Made me go and look it up.

Agenda:

1. A list or program of things to be done or considered

Objective:

1. Something that actually exists.

2. Something worked toward or striven for; a goal.

Now I'm confused.

Can I take credit for it?

Oh wait, not a cat...

nevermind

I'm Confuse-An-Apple.

January 23, 2006

You don't like the stuff in a cache, don't trade. This goes for religious items or any other item. Just ignore it.

January 23, 2006

5. Athiesism is the ism most vehemently SHOVING their agenda down people throats by attempting to shush all religious expression

Oh really? When was the last time you saw signs pimping atheism on the side of the road? How about all the atheist bumper stickers? And all those atheist TV and radio stations? Atheist bookstores and other businesses? Try taking off the blinders and looking around you sometime.

2.7k · January 23, 2006

5. Athiesism is the ism most vehemently SHOVING their agenda down people throats by attempting to shush all religious expression

Oh really? When was the last time you saw signs pimping atheism on the side of the road? How about all the atheist bumper stickers? And all those atheist TV and radio stations? Atheist bookstores and other businesses? Try taking off the blinders and looking around you sometime.

Blinders?

what does posting signs and bumper stickers have to do with "shushing" opposing viewpoints.

Please read more carefully before attempting to "lead the blind"

January 23, 2006

I can't see getting real upset about religious literature in a cache. I can't see getting upset about someone mentioning it in the logs either. That way, those who are determined to avoid such stuff will know in advance.

January 23, 2006

Why should a "religious" themed cache be any more acceptable than an "adult" themed cache?

I haven't been rereading this thread, because its just rehash so forgive me if I missed something. That being said, are you serious?

Of course I'm serious.

1. More people engage in sexual activity than in religious activities.

2. The religious folks are attempting to push mythology as fact.

3. The religious folks main theme is fear. "if you don't do as I say the devil will get you"

4. The religious folks use that fear for extrotion.

I won't go into all the benifits of sexual activity. If I did it would be probably be censored.

As far as I'm concerned one is as objectionable as the other, maybe the religious a bit more.

5.9k · January 23, 2006

Somebody make this stop.

2.5k · January 23, 2006

Somebody make this stop.

Somebody in particular, or anybody?

5.9k · January 23, 2006

Somebody make this stop.

Somebody in particular, or anybody?

Just the whole miserable thread. It's been covered.

2.7k · January 23, 2006

I like llamas, they have no agendas.

January 23, 2006

Post Deleted due to discustionss of Sex, Politics, and Religion.

Yes, 'cause God save us from discussion!

:unsure:

Go easy man, I take none of this personally and hope you don't either. It's just talking.

January 23, 2006

...Christian groups? Sure let them--but don't let them post a sign saying "You unbelievers are going to hell" because such as sign is a verbal assault on others.

I think the same thought can be applied to SWAGs. A tract that promotes a belief does not attack another individual--unless that individual is an intolerant SOB...

Actually, these tracts - and pretty much every tract I've ever seen, not that I'm a connoisseur of them - said exactly the thing you agree is a verbal assault.

And what is a Markwell??

January 23, 2006

Both sides of this argument need to respect the beliefs of the other. It is just as wrong to object to the placing of the tracts in a cache as it is to place them. Or, just as right. It is NOT right to remove such things on principle - unless you trade them out. I do, however, have a problem with those who trade them out just so that others who may follow will be deprived of the chance to trade them or read them. That person has every right to see the item and it's removal on principal is a nasty form of censorship. If it's not your 'thing', leave it alone.

I see items left in a cache as a reflection of the person who placed them there and as such, within the limits of decency and common sense, all is good. To clarify, I mean leave out the guns, knives and rat poison etc, etc.

Where it all falls down is, to quote the OP, 'stuffed to the gills'... That is plain wrong!

January 23, 2006

...Christian groups? Sure let them--but don't let them post a sign saying "You unbelievers are going to hell" because such as sign is a verbal assault on others.

I think the same thought can be applied to SWAGs. A tract that promotes a belief does not attack another individual--unless that individual is an intolerant SOB...

Actually, these tracts - and pretty much every tract I've ever seen, not that I'm a connoisseur of them - said exactly the thing you agree is a verbal assault.

And what is a Markwell??

Sure the tracts may say that--but only if you open up the cover and decide to read it. I would, of course, think that any tracts whose COVER said "You're all going to hell" should be removed as offensive material.

How is it that some people claim that the only way to gain tolerance is to be intolerant when it concerns religion?

3.7k · January 23, 2006

How would the GS PTB or other members view a cache at a monument to satanism or the KKK that requires we reference their material to log the visit?

Well, since you asked...Kan't Katch a Klue

I've done this one, and it was educational. I knew the KKK originated in Pulaski, TN, but didn't know the back story (not that knowing made it any more palatable).

January 23, 2006

Sure the tracts may say that--but only if you open up the cover and decide to read it. I would, of course, think that any tracts whose COVER said "You're all going to hell" should be removed as offensive material.

How is it that some people claim that the only way to gain tolerance is to be intolerant when it concerns religion?

Oh for...

So I suppose it's ok to put X-rated literature in a cache too? I mean, as long as there's no nudity on the cover.

That has nothing to do with the OP, of course. Just couldn't resist pointing it out. :unsure:

January 23, 2006

I know exactly how it happened.

"hmmm, hand out tracts or go caching? hmmmmm"

LOL, literally, I did. :unsure:

January 23, 2006

. . . I do not want to be prayed for. . .

Whoops! Sorry, too late.

(guess I should have read the entire post first)

January 23, 2006

I was curious about these so-called "chick" tracts, so I went to their website.

I spent the whole night reading. I read every one.

The scales have fallen from my eyes.

I am saved.

I repent my heathen and Roman Catholic ways. The rest of you who do not believe will go straight to H***, there's no way to put a finer point on it.

Now, before they start roasting the rest of your atheist/agnostic/Catholic souls in the eternal gas grill, let's go caching!

P.S. I ordered a whole case of Chick Tracts to leave as my signature item. I hereby repent of my geocoining ways!

Edited January 23, 2006 by Hugh Jazz

2.1k · January 23, 2006

P.S. I ordered a whole case of Chick Tracts to leave as my signature item. I hereby repent of my geocoining ways!

Talk to Jeremy.

I bet for a buck-fitty he can give you an icon and let you track them individually by number if you want.

Then again, there's probably a Chick tract against that.

January 23, 2006

well my two cents might not be worth much but why not post that those onjects might be in there? like all of the other warnings like kid freindly or small cache, then people will know what to expect. I know I am new at this game buit it seems that a good deal of the game is based on honesty. and i personaly feel that geocachers that trash other peoples caches should be called mud bloods (further reference from H. P. and "muggles") But, like I said thats my two cents

Edited January 23, 2006 by MMPrahl

January 23, 2006

It is rare to find caches in my neck of the woods that don't have Christian tracts in them. Most aren't stuffed to the gills with them (I think I've only seen one that was overdone). They don't interest me, and I think it's probably a waste of time, considering you can drop by a church or visit any church's site online. I guess I am of the opinion that stuffing religious material in a cache is no different from stuffing commercial material in one.

January 23, 2006

Oh, and by the way, the llamas and their relatives, the alpacas, do, in fact, have an agenda. They are trying to horn the sheep out of the wool and rug market.

January 24, 2006

It is rare to find caches in my neck of the woods that don't have Christian tracts in them. Most aren't stuffed to the gills with them (I think I've only seen one that was overdone). They don't interest me, and I think it's probably a waste of time, considering you can drop by a church or visit any church's site online. I guess I am of the opinion that stuffing religious material in a cache is no different from stuffing commercial material in one.

Ah. You do hit upon a point... and that is the "value" of a Christian tract. I think we could all agree that someone taking a 21 piece bike toolkit out of a cache and putting a "Broken Cross" Chick tract is an unequal SWAG trade. In fact, I generally view tracts as having very little trade value.

There are, of course, exceptions. Some caches in our local area have "Million Dollar Bills" which are really clever Christian material. I LOVE those. Whenever I give one away to a friend, I usually trade for another one. Especially nice since those bills usually come with a nice coin with the 10 commandments ("suggestions" to atheists, I suppose).

January 24, 2006

Sure the tracts may say that--but only if you open up the cover and decide to read it. I would, of course, think that any tracts whose COVER said "You're all going to hell" should be removed as offensive material.

How is it that some people claim that the only way to gain tolerance is to be intolerant when it concerns religion?

Oh for...

So I suppose it's ok to put X-rated literature in a cache too? I mean, as long as there's no nudity on the cover.

That has nothing to do with the OP, of course. Just couldn't resist pointing it out.

And you equate pornography to religion?

(1) It is illegal to sell/give pornography to minors in most states. It is not illegal to sell/give tracts to minors... So placing porn into a cache where minors may gain access to it without proper safeguards is bad form.

(2) Most states allow porn shops on streets with nothing but an opaque window between a person walking by and the filth inside. It is assumed that if an adult walks into a shop, he chose to be exposed to the material inside. Likewise, I think if a tract says "Open This to Read About the Salvation of Your Immortal Soul" and you open it and read the stuff inside, that is YOUR choice.

(3) I am starting to think that some atheists simply do not believe in "free will" and hence strive to remove choices from everyone else. Somehow, I suppose, that religious tract sitting inside a metal container will taint all the other stuff with "God cooties" or something--and hence must be destroyed.

1.8k · January 24, 2006

Please let this thread die a slow agonizing yet painful death. All points have been made on the subject and all that remains is rather dull ...

PS - I now I can just skip over this thread and not open it, however, I'm tired of seeing the title listed with the rest of the topics. No matter what side of religion you fall on, it doesn't need to be hashed out in the geocaching.com forums.

3.5k · January 24, 2006

Please let this thread die a slow agonizing yet painful death.

How about I just "Kevorkian" it now? Anyone morally opposed to that?

This one's done. Most of the last 2 pages were off topic debates that aren't going to be solved in this lifetime.

Good luck with the next.

Bret

January 24, 2006

I reopened this just to see if I could. I have no idea why I have Moderation options on a thread a real mod closed... is that an error?

No, I will not use this quirk to make any more comments. Just wanted to see if it worked. Topic reclosed, thanks for the debate y'all.

Caches Stuffed With Religious Propaganda...

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