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Find Count = Status?


Sadie
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In a different thread, the question of high find count giving a person a higher status than another person without the high count. Rather than comment there, I thought a new thread might be a better idea.

 

When you talk to a cacher, does thier find/hide count factor in to conversations about caching and how much weight you give thier opinion?

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:huh: Touchy Topic....

 

Personally, I look at:

  • Total find count
  • Total hide count
  • total years experience
  • participation in local group
  • quality of hides
  • quality of logs
  • personal experience with that cacher

Then I sort of rate thier oponion based on ALL of the above. To me anybody with 30 or more finds is basically an experienced cacher ..... Anybody with less is still basically a newcomer. Just me though....

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Hells NO. :P

 

I posted this on another thread recently:

 

It's not about cache numbers for me. I try for quality in several ways: To make a road trip more fun, or for an individual hunt that I know from other's logs and word of mouth to be truly worthwhile. I don't look up in envy to folks with thousands of finds, nor do I look down on them. They play their way and I play mine.

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In a different thread, the question of high find count giving a person a higher status than another person without the high count. Rather than comment there, I thought a new thread might be a better idea.

 

When you talk to a cacher, does thier find/hide count factor in to conversations about caching and how much weight you give thier opinion?

uh-oh. You took the quote out from the other thread so now we don't know the context for smilies equating to status. In the other thread a comment was made that people would use a spoiler site to find the answers to puzzle caches because getting the smilie for a find was somehow more important than the satisfaction of having solved the puzzle yourself. The general response was that this is not true for all cachers and in any case why should one care.

 

My smilie count equates to my self status.

 

Your smilie count does not equate to my view of your status. All I know is that if you have a high count you cache a lot. If you have a low count, either you don't cache a lot or you're a newbie.

 

My smilie count should not equate to your view of my status.

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Hells NO. :P

 

I posted this on another thread recently:

 

It's not about cache numbers for me. I try for quality in several ways: To make a road trip more fun, or for an individual hunt that I know from other's logs and word of mouth to be truly worthwhile. I don't look up in envy to folks with thousands of finds, nor do I look down on them. They play their way and I play mine.

I agree . . . and some of those high number people really do play a different game than the lower number people. :P When I posted my DNF log for a cache, I found these logs by two people caching together . . . :)

 

icon_sad.gif September __ by cacher (____ found)

I don't think we found this one.

 

icon_smile.gif September __ by cacher (____ found)

Had a great time caching around the area with those uber obsessed "cachers," you know, the #_ cachers in the world....

 

Hated to tell them that I was the Best of ____l, but they finally agreed after I found most of the caches for them. Cacher found the rest....

 

Thanks for adding to our fun day!

 

:D

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Yes, this thread was taken out of that context on purpose. When I read that, it made me think of how I viewed other cachers, and how other cachers view me. I decided to start a seperate thread.

 

If anyone says that the general populous does not factor in a cachers hide/find count into thier perspective of them as a cacher, I will argue. However minimal, it does have an effect.

 

Nice person with 10-20 finds = nice guy guy that is just getting started.

Nice person with 200 finds = nice guy that ius getting the hang of things

Nice person with 2500 finds = nice person who gets out a lot and has a lot of experience with different types of hides.

 

Replace Nice person with Jerk, Good orator, egotist, short person, rich person, sensible person, etc, etc.

 

Remember - anyone with a lower find count than you needs to get out more, and anyone with a higher count has too much time on thier hands.

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I guess the quality of caches and the reputation of the cacher would be more important basis to view them based on.

 

I personally have only logged two caches that weren't actually there, but I has permission from the owner, and took a photo of me and my GPS at the cache site. I've logged virtuals the same way.

 

You do have to think Hmmmm, when you see a high number cacher, but that really only means they have been caching longer than you or at a heavier rate.

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In a different thread, the question of high find count giving a person a higher status than another person without the high count. Rather than comment there, I thought a new thread might be a better idea.

 

When you talk to a cacher, does thier find/hide count factor in to conversations about caching and how much weight you give thier opinion?

Would "perspective" or "perception" be a better term than "status"?

 

Status would imply a position in a social structure of some sort.

 

Perception is how you view them.

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When you talk to a cacher, does thier find/hide count factor in to conversations about caching and how much weight you give thier opinion?

Most of the time when I'm talking to another cacher I'm not even aware of their find count. To me, it's not relevant.

 

The only time I really have a question about someone's find count is their experience when looking at a new cache. A couple of finds and their first placement will make me think about if I want to be a Guinea pig.

 

The thing is though, this is a loaded question. Does anyone really expect someone to pipe up and say, "heck, ya! I broke 1000 finds so I'm better than all you 3 digit losers! Bwhahahah!" No, I don't think you'll find many that will admit they think their find count makes them better than others. You have to watch their actions and how they interact with others.

 

It's kind of like asking if you think money equals status.

 

It's as if there are some who look at those with more than them and are jealous causing them to want more. They might also look at those with less and feel superior. They might see some gainers and feel a push to stay ahead.

 

Wait. Was I talking about smilies or money?

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When you talk to a cacher, does thier find/hide count factor in to conversations about caching and how much weight you give thier opinion?

If I've just met a geocacher and I know nothing about them, a quick discussion of 'how many finds' and 'what type of caches' at least serves as a starting point for comparing their level of experience with my own.

 

But just because someone has a higher find count than me doesn't mean they automatically get my respect. And just because someone has less finds than me, it certainly doesn't mean I won't hang out with 'em.

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Does a person with 20 years experience in a job have more status than someone who was hired last week? Does an old person have more status than a young child? Which doctor would you rather have in the delivery room--one that has delivered 10,000 babies, or an intern?

 

Experience equals status in any endeavor. If you have 1000 finds, and I have only 262, then I acknowledge your status as a more experienced cacher. That does not mean I think you are a better human being.

 

Anyone who claims experience that they do not have is falsifying their credentials in that particular activity. Granted, it's just a game, but it is still demonstrates lack of character to claim to have done something that you did not do.

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I have met and cached with new cachers with zero finds, all the up to the third ranked cacher with over 7000 finds. The majority are genuinely nice people, whom I have a lot of respect for.

 

I don't personally view cachers with high finds to have greater status than anyone else. Now if I see a cacher who actively logs archived caches, with back dated logs, or cachers who log event caches 20 to 100 times, or cachers who have logged 5000 "1/1" caches, their credibilty is diminished.

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if i have to think about status, i'll have to say that one of my most highly respected cachers has about 250 finds.

 

but status? by whose standards?

 

my find count means absloutely nothing in the larger scheme.

 

how have the number of my finds enriched the game at all? if my numbers mean anything at all to you, i can only assume that you are a personal friend of mine or that you are a misguided person who really needs extrinsic approval, or worse yet, a shallow petty person not worth my consideration.

 

if you have provided me good company, a good caching experience, shown me hospitality or kindness, if you have written an interesting log or taken a good photo, if you have expressed an interesting opinion in a thoughtful way, or if others speak of you in this way you have respected status before me whether your find count is 1 or 1000.

 

if you make bogus finds, if you cheat puzzles (as opposed to outsmarting them or forcing them, which i consider a solution), or if the game is about numbers to you, i have no time for you.

 

begone, petty creature. darken my door no longer.

 

my find count means less to me than the fact that this weekend when i couldn't find a micro i spent an hour or so playing "how big a rock?", a game in which you try to guess how big a rock you will have to drop to break through the ice.

 

the whole game, along with the photographs, will be posted as part of my DNF log.

 

if your find count is much less than mine, i will assume that you have simply not spent as much time at this as i have. maybe you have a family or other obligations that draw you away from game playing.

 

i am essentially the same player i was on the first day i began to play. i'm a little better at judging which snow-covered features might hold an ammo box, but i still don't find things. i still get lost. i still stop to take pictures. the only real difference is that i've been doing it long enough that people recognize my name.

 

sometimes that's not a blessing.

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In a different thread, the question of high find count giving a person a higher status than another person without the high count.

Only if 'status' is a new meaning for obsessive/compulsive. Though some people might call me that, I do have a life, and I have to work for a living.

Status is what I give to people whom I respect. You get to know the local cachers by their logs, their hides, their attitude.

Thirty guardrail micro hides will command less respect that three well hidden, quality caches. (And Chinese food containers should be banned!) Two thousand finds by a pompous fool gets less respect than two hundred finds by a genuinely nice person.

Nope. Numbers do not confer status.

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When you talk to a cacher, does thier find/hide count factor in to conversations about caching and how much weight you give thier opinion?

Fortunately, I ran into some genuine high status cachers in the area on my first official day as a Geocacher. Meeting them in person prevented find counts or "faceless Internet encounters" from corrupting the way I weighed other people's opinions.

 

I label them "high status" due to their dedication and contribution to the sport.

 

In general, find count does reflect a cacher's experience, so if the opinion you are seeking or being solicited is based on that, there's no harm in weighing it appropriately.

 

Otherwise, I'd worry more about how to have fun, than other people's so-called "status." :P

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People who are mentioning personality, and so on should reread the OP. Nobody has ever suggested that a high find count makes you a good person. The question was about status.

 

To me, someone's find count is one indicator of the amount of experience they have had. I am surprised to read that so many people feel that experience confers no status in geocaching, and that high numbers do not indicate accomplishment, or seniority. Very strange.

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It's not about "status." I don't consider someone with 2000 finds to be royalty and the person with 5 finds to be pond scum, HOWEVER, when reading comments on my cache pages, the person with more finds carries more weight with their comments.

 

For example.

 

Person with 5 finds doesn't find my easy cache--I wait and see if the next cacher finds it.

 

Person with 2000 finds doesn't find my easy cache--I go out and check to see if cache is still there.

 

So the word here is EXPERIENCE not STATUS. I respect the experience level of someone with many finds. I expect someone with 2000 finds to know most of the good hiding places when it comes to caching, so if they can't find my easy cache, I'd better check on it. The person with 5 finds is still learning the game. They might still miss a fairly easy cache. I know we did when we 1st started.

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Find count is one component of a geocacher's resume that I take into consideration when forming an opinion about his or her standing in the game. It's an obvious component and a significant one. It certainly isn't exclusive, but this is a sport that attracts geeks, and geeks love statistics, and find count is the obvious and primary statistic.

 

Thank heaven for geeks. Without them, there would be no botanists. Or trainspotters. And then what...?

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if you esteem my play in the game by the number of finds i have, to you i say: begone!

 

if you wish to measure my career as a bicycle racer in terms of which championships i hold or which races i have won, fine. bicycle racing is a competitive sport.

 

and although you may view geocaching as a competitive sport, i don't.

 

the only facet of my find count that is truly significant is that it increases.

 

the only statistic i really care about is that i maintain an average of one cache for each day since i started caching.

 

it isn't about touchy-feely-ness. ewww.

 

i simply think the find count is not terribly important.

 

or at least comparative find counts aren't important. i love my stats, but i don't give two hoots in a handbasket what yours are.

 

...unless you are a personal friend of mine, in which case i may congratulate you on your latest accomplishment.

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if you esteem my play in the game by the number of finds i have, to you i say: begone!...

You insist on missing the point. Your find count is a measure of your experience, which is one of many things that help me form an opinion about you. Another thing is your penchant for telling people to "begone". They sort of cancel each other out.

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Personally don't hold someone with 1000 in better esteem than someone who has 5 finds. Good quality finds, willingness get difficult hides on the other hand gets admiration. There are nice cachers and their are cachers that are just a pain. Cachers who beat their own chest and show off the number of their finds are just plain buffoons.

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if you esteem my play in the game by the number of finds i have, to you i say: begone!...

You insist on missing the point. Your find count is a measure of your experience, which is one of many things that help me form an opinion about you. Another thing is your penchant for telling people to "begone". They sort of cancel each other out.

...so, which one is the one you like?

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There are only 50 in our whole territory (Approx the size of California). Some are in the middle of the desert an require a 5 day trip to get them. I would say that perhaps one should look at the type of caches that a person has found.

 

Take This One for example

Another one these caches are not to be treated lightly.

There is no cell phone coverage so a sattelite phone is essential. There are no gas stations, stores, camp grounds or civilization for about 400km.

 

I would respect some one who found these caches far more than some one who found 1000 caches in a city.

 

The next one I am going for is This One it is about 300 km away and the road is 4x4 only.

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if you esteem my play in the game by the number of finds i have, to you i say: begone!...

You insist on missing the point. Your find count is a measure of your experience, which is one of many things that help me form an opinion about you. Another thing is your penchant for telling people to "begone". They sort of cancel each other out.

...so, which one is the one you like?

Your find count influences me to listen to what you have to say in matters of geocaching. The opinion of experienced people always carries more weight than the opinion of the novice. It was ever thus.

 

I don't know what your begone count is, but it seems to be increasing. Personally, I don't think that anyone here has the right to tell anyone else to be gone, no matter how many smilies they have--but perhaps I take you too literally.

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...

but always a beginner. always.

The attitude of a truly experienced person.

it was my attitude when i had no finds.

 

the only really significant change in my play is that i write longer logs, take more pictures and even post audio clips.

 

i have been working for the last two hours on a note i'm posting for a cache i was near last week.

 

 

uh, between hyperbolic rants and evil giggling.

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On second thought, I may be a bit of a hypocrite when it comes to travel bug numbers. It's the only stat that I care about and I DO look up to those with thousands of finds, but I don't look down...usually.

 

In my encounters with over 870 travelers (total of tbs, coins, and jeeps) I have had a few negative contacts (just over a dozen) from interested parties other than the tb owner. In many cases these "TB Zealots" presumed to tell me the rules for picking up bugs (Usually after a cache revisit) and most were quite rude. Almost invariably these people had very few TB finds (or cache finds for that matter) and had become attached to a bug for whatever reason. In all of these cases I let 'em have it right back from the position of experience.

 

I've also had a TB owner with a grand total of 12 caches/1 month experience read me the riot act because I moved his virgin bug over 300 miles (and closer to a stated goal mind you) and didn't post a picture, or complete a goal in the city I picked it up in. He did the same to the next couple of folks (friends of mine) who moved his bug too. Talk about unrealistic expectation. I blasted this guy in a very terse reply and I actually think he stopped geocaching.

Edited by Snoogans
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I think when most people start out the cachers with the most finds in their area may seem somehow larger than life. The name of those cachers will be all over the place and you may feel like you will never even approach those kinds of numbers. They find 20 in a day when you struggle to find 2 or 3. Somewhere along the way you come to realize that it is a big illusion. The numbers mean only what you make of them.

 

Another view may come after you've been doing this a while. You have a good handle on what you are doing and have found a pretty good variety of caches. Then numbers become a measure of a cachers experience level. But that is a level that tops out very quickly. It comes into play in how you interact with other cachers. A person with only a few finds (10-20) obviously is less experienced than one with 100 or more. You can expect a cacher with the fewer numbers to have more questions or not be 'in the know' about certain things while the cacher with more finds understands what you are talking about and gives a knowing nod.

 

That is not status however.

 

Ultimately, IMO, a cacher with 0 finds has as much status as one with 10,000.

 

I enjoy meeting fellow cachers 'out in the wild' and have some reservations when the numbers question comes up. I am quite proud of my finds and will willingly share the info, but it somehow makes me uncomfortable at the same time. I guess it's because I know it gives no status, and dread that the other person may see it otherwise. Don't know as that makes much sense, but there it is.

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I think when most people start out the cachers with the most finds in their area may seem somehow larger than life. The name of those cachers will be all over the place and you may feel like you will never even approach those kinds of numbers. They find 20 in a day when you struggle to find 2 or 3. Somewhere along the way you come to realize that it is a big illusion. The numbers mean only what you make of them.

That's sort of how I felt as a new cacher. The numbers still mean something to me, but now the way I cache is a little more important than the numbers. If I can say all of them were legit, that makes it mean more. If I can claim a 5 star, or do a difficult cache, that means more.

 

Earning a smiley makes it mean more.

 

I still keep track of my numbers and am proud of them, but it's not everything. I still log all my DNF's as well.

 

Airmapper's Stats

71 found/ 8 hidden/ 11 DNF's

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As a beginner myself with only 20-something finds in my first few weeks I'll admit that the numbers seemed somehow important when I first came to the site. Having 1000+ finds is almost unimaginable at the stage I am at right now and its hard not to be impressed by the numbers.

 

But I soon learned that the reason I was attracted to caching was very specific. I have always spent all of my leisure time doing things like hiking and climbing. I love to go to places that no one would ever go to by accident. When I am out there I like to meet only the people with similar interests, not some sunday hiker out for a stroll.

 

Goecaching is almost a natural progression of that attitude. It inspires me to go places that no one would go otherwise. I have specifically sought out remote caches in my area that are terrain 3.5 or better and I find great pleasure in spending all day scrambling over the top of a mountain to gather up a couple caches. If I put the same amount of time into urban caches I could easily scoop up 20 in a day.

 

I doubt I'll ever reach the large number of finds like some have. Its just not the reason I like to play the game. But although I will no doubt pick up my share of 1/1 urban caches along the way I will pride myself on logging some of the more difficult caches that none but the most dedicated attempt. And I will always have a greater respect for the names I see in those logs along the way.

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A couple of posts ago I logged an attempt at a joke about DNFs. While I do think they're important for a lot of reasons including the fact that they help us maintain our hides, and since they do, no truly 'experienced' cacher would fail to log them knowing how important they are, I also have some other opinions about numbers.

 

To S and I, what makes us love and respect other cachers, and love is not too strong a word here, is their participation in the community.

 

Numbers can play a part here. You're more likely to bump into a high-numbers cacher on the trail when there's an FTF opportunity. And when you do, you get the chance to see how cool they are. I race to FTFs because I may get to see a fellow cacher and make a friend. Some whom we meet are the best folks we know, some... arent.

 

But then the other stuff is more important. Do they help with legislative issues and community relations issues(which is critical here in SC), Do they attend events (which is how an 'experienced' cacher helps the newbies), Do they place quality hides (takes one to know one), and last but not least, are they kind and patient and truly helpful to new cachers learning the ropes.

 

We've only been caching for a year and a half. We don't go for numbers, but we try our best to do all the other things that are on this list with varied levels of success. Some of the best cachers who are our examples of how to do it right that we know have a zillion finds, but some of them have just a few hundred finds.

 

So, finds alone do not make the respected cacher. And lack of finds alone does not mean a cacher is not a true master.

 

The words of a grasshopper.

 

- T of TandS

Edited by tands
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Personally, I just use my find count to freak out muggle coworkers, friends and family.

 

Them: "What are you going to do this weekend?"

Me: "Go geocaching?"

Them: "What's that?"

Me: <Explains the game to them.>

Them: "Well, there can't be that many of those things around."

Me: "So far I've found over 650 of them."

Them: <Their mouth drops open.>

Me: "As a matter of fact, I know several cachers with over 1000 finds, and a couple with over 2000."

Them: <Their mouth is still open.>

Me: "The person with the most finds in the world has over 10,000 now."

Them: <Still speechless.>

Me: "So I should be able to find one or two."

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Then I learned that maybe the 50 cache finder only found caches terrain 5 caches.

Or they do not use a GPS, or they cache in the nude, or they dress-up like batman ... Or they have three wives, a kid, a dog, three fish and a mortgage and can only find time to cache once or twice a year.

Um clearpath-I think the OP asked about what give 'higher status', not alternative status. :ph34r:

not that there's anything wrong with that... :(:ph34r:

 

Ok so maybe it isn't about attitude, it is about the numbers? I'm getting confused now. :D It does seem to answer the OP's questions, that if you do have fun geocaching, the more time you spend doing it, the more fun you can have, and the greater the likelihood that your numbers of some kind will be greater than the average joe's. :D

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