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"found" Logs Not Allowed


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And that brings me back to a recent gripe... DONT USE MO CACHES AS EXAMPLES. Or at least cut and paste the text for all of us to be able to read.

 

Yeah, I'm unlucky enough to have a MO cache I can't clear out in my way. It's 1 mile from my house - both as the crow flies and pretty much as I drive. I wouldn't have a clue if you're talking about something else.

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Or at least cut and paste the text for all of us to be able to read.

My bad.

 

This is the gist of the cache:

 

This is a nice hide in a nice area. You should have little or no difficulty finding this one. The only catch is that ALL LOGS MUST BE POSTED AS NOTES ONLY.

 

Come out for a nice walk and enjoy the area. Make as many repeated visits as you like, but log your visit(s) as notes only.

 

I WILL DELETE ANY NON-NOTE LOGS ON THIS CACHE

 

-WR

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I am not sure how this one got approved, but I can see how it would drive you crazy. I have one that you have to drift boat to as my first closest (13.1 miles)and I will never get it so it just sits there taunting me.

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if your gonna post the text of the cache..post it all

 

If your goal is to increase your cache count, don't bother looking for this one.

 

I am not a big fan of cache stats and for those of you who enjoy caching and don't really care about the numbers, this one's for you.

 

This is a nice hide in a nice area. You should have little or no difficulty finding this one. The only catch is that ALL LOGS MUST BE POSTED AS NOTES ONLY.

 

Come out for a nice walk and enjoy the area. Make as many repeated visits as you like, but log your visit(s) as notes only.

 

I WILL DELETE ANY NON-NOTE LOGS ON THIS CACHE

 

There are buttons for the first 10 finders.

 

Here is an email i shared with gpsfun regarding this cache before i submitted it:

 

Hey there,

 

I have a cache idea an I wanted to run it by you before I started

putting

any energy into it.

 

I have a strong dislike for cache stats and I want to hide a cache for

those

like me. The cache will be hidden like any other cache with one

exception. I

would only allow finds posted as notes.

 

The whole point is to bring people to a nice area just for the

enjoyment of

it...not the numbers.

 

Will this kind of requirement violate any guidelines.

 

Thanks for the help

 

The reply:

 

Hi, Tim.

 

In my opinion, a cache with logging requirements as you have stated can

be

posted to the web site. As the owner, you may state whatever logging

parameters you choose, within reason, of course, and you may delete

logs

that are not in compliance.

 

It is an interesting concept, and I would like to see how it is

received by

the local geocaching community. I'm sure there will be comments!

 

All the best.

 

-gpsfun

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Still don't like the smell of it,

 

How do I get GSAK to show this as found? How do I update my personal map to show it as found?

 

The "smilies" do more than add a stat.

 

Maybe it doesn't violate any guidelines, but it sure seems annoying,

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If this person doesn't like cache stats, he could just log all his finds as notes. But why place a cache that forces people to play his way?

 

For us, we like the "smileys" cause they represent experiences. When I browse our cache page, I can see clearly which caches we found, which ones we didn't find and which ones we may have revisited for one reason or another (notes).

 

Cacheola Crew Mom

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How do I get GSAK to show this as found? How do I update my personal map to show it as found?

You don't.

 

However, you CAN user select it, and delete it - and see the little ticky-box that says "Banish this waypoint from ever again appearing before my eyes"? **

 

That's what you want.

 

** - Well, that's not exactly what it says, but you get the idea.

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I can see both sides of this one, and I bet the hider can too, since I suspect from prior posts there's a few caches he can't log either. Personally, I would do the cache, cause I'm more interested in a good cache then I am in a smiley. I also wouldn't be bothered if it was on my nearby list, since that list for the most part resides on my hard drive, not on a website. It would be no big deal for me to mark it found on my end and take it off my todo list.

Still, I can understand some people might get irritated by a cache they can't log. But really, how irritated can ya get? It's no different then a scuba cache if you aren't a diver, or a cache 1/2 way down the side of a cliff if you're afraid of heights, or a hydro if you have no boat, or a cache that can only be logged if you have over 1000 finds, and you're a newbie. Just ignore it.

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I have one that you have to drift boat to as my first closest (13.1 miles)and I will never get it so it just sits there taunting me.

At least there is a small chance you can get that cache, you never know if you might get access to a drift boat. B) But there is no chance of ever whiping the cache in question off your nearest caches list. I don't like it either. B)

Edited by Radman Version 4.0
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Well, my perspective on caching, and I do not care if folks say it's right or wrong. It is mine.

 

Priorities:

1) Get out and have fun.

2) Spend time with family and friends.

3) Learn about the area I am in (home or away)

4) Maintian integrety and respect.

5) Get more numbers.

 

So, if some says numbers count, I say yes. They count for me.

If some says it's all about the numbers, I say no. There are more important things.

 

Money is important to me. I can't buy food or pay my mortgage without it. If someone offered me money to steal or other immoral act, I would refuse it.

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So just to make sure I understand how this works.

 

If you find the cache, you can't log a find? It won't show up in your found cache list, you can't generate a GPX with your finds in a pocket query so you have a record of your logs. Your find count will now have to be +1 just so you can count milestone caches like 100 accuratly.

 

I see the intended humor of the cache but in the end it ends up being a bit mean spirited. Why a note? why not all DNF's?

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I am not sure how this one got approved, but I can see how it would drive you crazy. I have one that you have to drift boat to as my first closest (13.1 miles)and I will never get it so it just sits there taunting me.

There is no rule agaisnt such a cache, and in that regard I would back the decision of the approver to list the cache.

 

My personal opinion of the cache is that the rule stinks. However I also don't see a reason to archive it just because it's got a rule like that. I suspect the community will argue the issue and come up to an overall conclusion on it.

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This is inconsiderate, to say the least.

 

One of the main tools I use to geocache is the "Nearest unfound cache" link on my cache page. It's there to be used, and the site admin didn't intend for it to be there, they'd remove it. I don't want to hear the "3rd party software" crap - I don't like to cache like that (That being said, I do use it for somethings - but I refuse to use it for this - and that's my right). I don't give a dadgum how somebody else likes to cache. ("Cache the way you like to cache").

 

This would drive me insane, especially if I FOUND the cache.

 

I suppose I would just post a log find every day. I found it, I want accurate records and *I* use the website to keep my records. (Again, I don't care how other people keep theirs). Perhaps the owner wouldn't like this - I don't like being told how to play the game.

 

I'm sure I'm not alone in this. I know plenty of folks that are fairly serious about keeping a radius around their home clear as well. Some people like FTFs, some people like hiding lots of caches, some people like travelbugs - well some like to keep their area clear.

 

It's bad enough there's caches I can't physically find because of special tools - but this is just pointless and rude.

 

I hope for an ignore feature every day. (It'd be nice if the cache owner saw "X people are ignoring your cache" - maybe they'd get the clue).

 

southdeltan

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I don't like it either...I think if you wanted to bring someone here just for the beautiful area then post it as a virtual not a regular cache. Numbers or not, I would like to get something for my gas money. I agree with the FTF NOTE( If you really don't care, go back and change all of your finds to notes, or, at the very least, never log another find, just post all of your future finds as notes. Otherwise, I think your full of baloney.) I have a better idea, from now on the entire geocaching community change all their finds to notes, and furthermore all additional finds be logged as notes or not at all. We won't even have to burden a webmaster and staff for this site. They would only have(?) to publish a list of coords to find. No stats, descriptions, container size or anything. I am sure the owner of the cache is a decent individual so this is not meant as a personal attack. It is just my opinion of this "new" caching idea. Part of the cache description says it all "If your goal is to increase your cache count, don't bother looking for this one." I would be suprised if anyone did.

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I also do not think it is a good cache.. just more of a "protest cache'.

 

I read the reasonings.. I read the approvers reasonings.. but as a 'community of cachers' it seems more irratating than a significant cache.

 

It also seems to lack the "spirit' of geocaching. Maybe it should have been put in another caching activities websites off of geocaching.com.

 

The cache owner has 510 cache's in his stats.. why not just zero all those out.. put all the TB's out and only log notes in the future????

 

eidted for speelng

Edited by LthrWrk
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Is it against the rules to delete any "non-note logs"?

 

What if someone wants to post "did not find" or "needs archived"...will those be deleted?

 

Can I place a cache that requires "found" logs whether or not the geocacher found it? :D

 

Can I require that people post only semi-colons in their logs? B)

 

I guess the answer to both of those question is probably yes, but why...why would you do such a thing? B)

 

Because you can impose your will on others, and frustrate them because of the way they play the game...and number counting is silly. B)

 

nfa-jamie

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My log got deleted in less than a minute!

 

---

Log Date: 1/7/2005

I'm in!! FTHMLD? (First to have my log deleted)

 

The only problem is that I won't know for sure if I'm first to not find but log a find and have my 'find' deleted.

 

What if I actually had a DNF? Would I then have to log a find, only to have it deleted?? If I logged a note, one would surmise I found it, no?

 

So many questions, so litle point.

---

 

One cache like this might be considered by some 'cute' or a 'protest' cache, however, if there are multiple caches like this, it renders the whole point of the 'user stats' page pointless, and then we can't accurately keep track online of what caches we've hit or not hit.

 

Frankly, I'd imagine that this is just more fuel on the fire from WH to further the bad blood between him and some other cachers in the area.

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I had no idea that people were so intent on hunting down caches just because they appear close to your home coordinates. I will use that as a starting point, but I won't go out and hunt a cache if it doesn't sound like it is in an interesting place.

 

If you know in advance that a Found Log will be deleted, and you are worried about improving your numbers, why would you bother hunting the cache in the first place?

 

Everyone relex, take a deep breath and remind yourself that this is just a way to pass the time, it's not life or death. With all the flames I expect I better put on my fire-retardant balaclava. B)

 

Cheers, everyone.

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I don't like it and I don't think it should be allowed. It effectively defeats the functionality of the website as RK pointed out. RM

Actually the rules state the following...

 

What are the rules in Geocaching?

 

Geocaching is a relatively new phenomenon. Therefore, the rules are very simple:

 

1. Take something from the cache

 

2. Leave something in the cache

 

3. Write about it in the logbook

 

There is nothing in the rules that say you should log it as a find on the website.

 

I disagree with the nature of the cache. The majority of cachers want to log finds as a personal accomplishment. If they are like me they really don't care about someone elses numbers. Not allowing someone to mark a personal accomplishment really isn't fair, nor thoughtful.

 

El Diablo

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Glad I don't live near this one. It would annoy me to no end everytime I passed a "not found, but yet found cache" while out on a run.

 

I like the numbers. And despite what this site says with regards to numbers, that's one of the main reasons it thrives as it does. There would be no reason to log any of the caches you found online if this was the way caches were supposed to be listed... you'd just sign the onsite log and be on your way.

Edited by AtlantaGal
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Still don't like the smell of it,

 

How do I get GSAK to show this as found? How do I update my personal map to show it as found?

 

The "smilies" do more than add a stat.

 

Maybe it doesn't violate any guidelines, but it sure seems annoying,

That is basically my take on it.

 

Listable, but I don't really like it. To each his or her own though I guess.

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Not only is it about the numbers, or not; when I go to an area to cache I pull up all the caches that I have not found and those are the ones we search for. Maybe a person could remember this one but if others started doing it, you could get a list of caches of which a large percentage you had already found but could not log. I like the smiley to tell me that it has been done. And the red check mark on the geocaching map to tell me which areas are already mostly done. This one would never produce a red check mark on the map.

Edited by Riddlers
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SO I can find my own event but I can't log a cache. I need to up my medication, I must be losing touch with the real world.

 

What's next?

Well, I just saw that to log an event in the midwest, it is for women only. I don't think if I lived in and around either of these caches I would like their selection of rules. I know, its their right but. . .

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O I can find my own event but I can't log a cache.

 

You found your own event? B)

 

I STILL don't get the point of this cache B) .

No. I didn't. That's my point. Some argue that logging your own event or CITO is not only ok but worth more than the breath of life.

 

I guess I'm a geocaching puritan. I don't log my own cache, I don't log events I host. I don't log multiple temporary caches at events. I don't log TBs I didn't move. I don't log caches I haven't signed the log book.

 

What left? Oh yeah, logging caches where I sign the log book. Now that's up in the air.

Edited by BlueDeuce
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Event logs say attended. So you can attend your own event.

 

I don't get the point of this cache though. I think its fun when people post their found it and didn't find notes. Why make a cache to irritate most of the cachers. If I find a cache I am posting a find. I don't see why anyone should be allowed to delete logs unless they are untrueful or vulgar.

Mike

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I've got to go with the consensus on this one. It's one thing to have the position that "it's not about the numbers," but it's another thing to take advantage of the site to essentially impose your view on others.

 

However, there's no rules prohibiting a cache such as this and it was approved, so I don't see a requirement that WH archive it.

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Event logs say attended.  So you can attend your own event.

I know, That's why I said I can, but I won't. How many Events have I hosted? How many events have I attended? See the difference?

 

Anyway, too far off topic.

 

Edited to show it's my personal choice.

Edited by BlueDeuce
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first, my credentials:

 

-i hate published comparative cache stats. if you want to keep these and they include me, i will do my best to screw them up.

 

-i LOVE my numbers, but they are so secret that not even i know what they are. let's just say i love my ballpark figure.

 

-there are plenty of caches that i simply don't even count as there, i'm ignoring them so heavily.

 

-there are some caches i have found but won't log.

 

now my opinion on this new cache concept:

 

i hate it. if you'll excuse me, i have to go log my DNF now.

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Frankly, I'd imagine that this is just more fuel on the fire from WH to further the bad blood between him and some other cachers in the area.

 

Dosido hit the nail on the head with this one.

 

When I saw this one pop up, I just quietly banged my head on the table, because the only point here is to irritate an ever-growing population of area cachers, many of whom are psycho numbers hunters (myself included, at times).

 

Anyone who knows me knows that I love a good protest or dose of subservise behavior in just about any arena. But this really isn't about that. It's not about making a point - it's simply about stirring up even more ire and controversy in the SE MA area.

 

And, just so everyone is clear - this cacher, who is "not a big fan of cache stats," was once so FTF obsessed that he grabbed a FTF on a birthday cache meant for a well-known (in our area) teen cacher. While it was not an "illegal" move, it was one that was in the very least in bad taste, and was the beginning of hard feelings in this area.

 

I really thought everyone had gotten beyond this, but I guess not. It's too bad this is happening....

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I don't like it and I don't think it should be allowed.  It effectively defeats the functionality of the website as RK pointed out.  RM

Actually the rules state the following...

 

What are the rules in Geocaching?

 

Geocaching is a relatively new phenomenon. Therefore, the rules are very simple:

 

1. Take something from the cache

 

2. Leave something in the cache

 

3. Write about it in the logbook

 

There is nothing in the rules that say you should log it as a find on the website.

 

I disagree with the nature of the cache. The majority of cachers want to log finds as a personal accomplishment. If they are like me they really don't care about someone elses numbers. Not allowing someone to mark a personal accomplishment really isn't fair, nor thoughtful.

 

El Diablo

True, but without the online participation this site has no purpose and geocaching itself would still be waiting to be born.

 

If WH Was seriouse about no finds he would of hid the cache but not listed it. As a listing it counts in his listed caches 'stat'. GC.com is a database. Notes, DNF's and Found logs can all be counted. You can even count your delted logs. WH's cache is a protest in a medium that can't actually be used for the protest.

 

The rules don't say a cache should be listed. However it's the online listing of a cache that makes the entire hobby viable. The was the true magic of what Dave Ulmer did. Caches had been done before, but his was out there for the world too see. Some rules don't exist but their unwritten nature doesn't change their importance. WH specificaly want's people to find his cache, and he wants the logs, he just doesn't want the logs to be finds in the traditional sence. In the end I think this cache is just the exception that proves the unwritten rule.

 

Edit: (I think ED and I just managed to agree on the end result wtihout agreeing on anything else)

Edited by Renegade Knight
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Hi, Tim.

 

In my opinion, a cache with logging requirements as you have stated can

be

posted to the web site. As the owner, you may state whatever logging

parameters you choose, within reason, of course, and you may delete

logs

that are not in compliance.

 

It is an interesting concept, and I would like to see how it is

received by

the local geocaching community. I'm sure there will be comments!

 

All the best.

 

-gpsfun

GPSfun are you listening? It's starting to sound like the majority of the community DOESN'T like the idea.

 

Count me in that group. It would annoy me to have a cache like this wasting space in my Pocket Query after I had found it. Maybe if the website had an "ignore" feature (I especially like the suggestion of showing owners the number of people ignoring their cache, stick it right under the number watching it) I wouldn't mind as much, as long as PQ's also excluded caches that were on our ignore list. But, as the website is currently coded, a cache like this just wastes space in PQ's for those who live near it.

 

WH, if you're so "anti-numbers", why do you have 500+ finds logged? Perhaps you should go back and edit them all to notes.......

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GPSfun are you listening? It's starting to sound like the majority of the community DOESN'T like the idea.

 

In defense of GPSfun, I think it is listable. I personally don't like it though. So perhaps the owner should re-think? But still, I do say that if it is within the guidelines, then to each his or her own. I would likely skip that cache. Other's wouldn't. That is OK with me.

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Yes, I'm listening.

 

The cache has only been posted for a few hours, and as I told WH, I expected comments. IMO, it is important to let the members of the geocaching community express their responses to the concept.

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And, just so everyone is clear - this cacher, who is "not a big fan of cache stats," was once so FTF obsessed that he grabbed a FTF on a birthday cache meant for a well-known (in our area) teen cacher. While it was not an "illegal" move, it was one that was in the very least in bad taste, and was the beginning of hard feelings in this area.

 

Go figure...A private little war. Take it elsewhere!! This it the kind of @#!%$$ that screws it up for the rest of us!!

Edited by DiskDevil
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Go figure...A private little war. Take it elsewhere!! This it the kid of @#!%$$ that screws it up for the rest of us!!

True. To that end. I am posting a summary and closing this topic. Thanks for all the feedback:

 

======================

I am not sure how this one got approved,...

 

Don't like the smell of this one...

 

Still don't like the smell of it,

 

But why place a cache that forces people to play his way?

 

It's got nothing to do with the smell. I just don't like it.

 

kinda wish that Premium Member "ignore cache" feature came into effect VERY soon

 

"Banish this waypoint from ever again appearing before my eyes"? **

 

Still, I can understand some people might get irritated by a cache they can't log.

 

But there is no chance of ever whiping the cache in question off your nearest caches list. I don't like it either.

 

I see the intended humor of the cache but in the end it ends up being a bit mean spirited.

 

I don't like it and I don't think it should be allowed. It effectively defeats the functionality of the website as RK pointed out.

 

My personal opinion of the cache is that the rule stinks.

 

No rule against it, but I just don't see the point.

 

This is inconsiderate, to say the least...this is just pointless and rude.

 

I don't like it either...

 

I also do not think it is a good cache.. just more of a "protest cache'...It also seems to lack the "spirit' of geocaching.

 

...why would you do such a thing?

Because you can impose your will on others, and frustrate them because of the way they play the game..

 

Frankly, I'd imagine that this is just more fuel on the fire from WH to further the bad blood between him and some other cachers in the area.

 

...why would you bother hunting the cache in the first place?

 

I disagree with the nature of the cache.

 

Glad I don't live near this one. It would annoy me to no end everytime I passed a "not found, but yet found cache" while out on a run.

 

What's next?

 

Listable, but I don't really like it

 

I like the smiley to tell me that it has been done.

 

Rude. Obnoxious. Kinda funny.

 

I don't think if I lived in and around either of these caches I would like their selection of rules. I know, its their right but. . .

 

I STILL don't get the point of this cache

 

Why make a cache to irritate most of the cachers.

 

...it's another thing to take advantage of the site to essentially impose your view on others.

 

log it as a find and make them do the work

 

i hate it. if you'll excuse me, i have to go log my DNF now.

 

...the only point here is to irritate an ever-growing population of area cachers, many of whom are psycho numbers hunters (myself included, at times).

 

GPSfun are you listening? It's starting to sound like the majority of the community DOESN'T like the idea.

 

I personally don't like it though.

======================

 

-WR

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