Handicapped Only 'caches?

1.5k · June 20, 2004

While out 'caching today, I was comtemplating the amazing view at a cache. It occurred to me that there are potentially a lot of 'cachers who will never get to see that because of some sort of disability or mobility limitation.

I started to think that perhaps a series of 'caches placed especially for people who are in wheelchairs or have other handicaps might be worthwhile. There are a number of trails that are completely handicap accessible for major parts of their length. In addition, they have some very scenic views.

My idea was that I would place a series of 'caches - (most probably small or micros 'cause of space limitations and put on the 'cache page that they have been placed espeically for handicapped 'cachers. In short, if you can manage a 2/2 or better, leave these alone) that would allow the less mobile in our community to have a crack at some decent 'caches rather than (I assume) mostly virts and metro-micros.

The question: Is there any value in doing this, and would in offend anyone? I am not disabled in any way, and don't really know anyone who is so, I put this out to the forums for your input!

2.3k · June 20, 2004

you might consider marking them accessible instead of only. more likely to get approved.

1.5k · June 20, 2004

you might consider marking them accessible instead of only. more likely to get approved.

What I had planned to do was to say (politely) on the 'cache page what the intent of the 'caches was, and while yes, they would in theory be open to anyone, if you have full mobility, it would be appreciated if you would move along....

June 20, 2004

I like the idea of more handicapped-accessible caches. I don't understand what advantage would be gained by prohibiting or discouraging non-handicapped cachers from enjoying the same caches.

24.7k · June 20, 2004

Sometimes I like to run the mirror image up the flagpole and see if it waves.

"This cache is for abled body cachers only. Those of a lesser caching ability should just move on, this cache is not for you"

I'd say that Jolly Roger ain't waving.

I think your idea is great, however make it a cache for all finders that happens to have been placed with assessability in mind. Then when handicaching.com is taking cache ratings be sure to include your caches there. We hope that the work that is being done by the people helping to get that site off the ground will catch on.

38.2k · June 20, 2004

Handicap accessable caches are a great idea. There are some out there, but not enough. But to make it handicap only is wrong. What happens when one geocacher pushes another's wheelchair to the cache? The guy who pushed can't sign the logbook simply because he has the use of his legs?

Handicap only parking spots and similar accomodations provide a service and make life easy for the disabled. Of course able bodied people should not be taking them up, but I don't see how making a cache off limits to the able bodied benefits the handicapped.

And what's next? Caches that are placed for black people only? Women only?

Edited June 20, 2004 by briansnat

June 20, 2004

Ya know, most people forget this but a (1/1) cache is suposed to be wheelchair accesable. See, your idea is already built into the system. In my area there is a cache in the Newhaven CT Handacaped hunting area that is a (1/1) and clearly says on the cache page that it is placed to be reached by wheel chair. (I forget the name of the cache but it was placed by Mopar). Check it out.

38.2k · June 20, 2004

Ya know, most people forget this but a (1/1) cache is suposed to be wheelchair accesable. See, your idea is already built into the system

Supposed to be, but too many people don't follow the guidelines. Oh no! I see another rant from Bons coming again :huh:

1.3k · June 20, 2004

You know, I was going to say something about the appropriateness of exculding people deliberately and how the non-handicapped accessable cachers weren't placed with the purpose of deliberately excluding people but why bother...

Have fun everyone. After that last post by Brian, I'm all funned out.

1.4k · June 20, 2004

Ya know, most people forget this but a (1/1) cache is suposed to be wheelchair accesable. <<SNIP>>

Close but no cigar.

A 1/1, 2/1, 3/1, 4/1 and 5/1 is supposed to be handicapped (wheel chair) accessible. Lets not confuse finding the cache with getting to it. I know of at least one cache that is 2.5/1 Anyone with a wheelchair could find it.

June 20, 2004

I think it is a great idea for handicapped caches,it would go better if for everyone.I have had 3 knee surgeries and I'm having a problem getting to most of them. If you do it.We will be there.Thanks,Team Reno

June 20, 2004

I think handicapped caches are a great idea. However, I don't think they should be limited to ONLY people that are handicapped.

I would put on the cache page that they were designed with handicapped people in mind but ALL cachers are welcome to the cache. And tell people to make sure they put the cache back in the same spot to make sure handicapped cachers can get to the cache too.

I don't think this game needs exclusions but I do agree we need more caches for handicapped folks. Just design the cache with them in mind but leave it open to everyone.

Just my two cents! :huh:

2k · June 20, 2004

I've become real interested in setting up some caches for folks with limited mobility, especially for wheel-chair bound folks. I'm trying to set up a few regular caches when I can get the time. So many of the "handi-accessible" caches are micros and virtuals. The tough part is hiding a cache where its visible and reachableto a wheel-chair but NOT noticeable to a nosy kid.

Edited June 20, 2004 by Torry

4.5k · June 21, 2004

Here's one I did that's 2.5/2.5 for regular cachers and 2/1 for handicapped. "Think out of the box".

Also, most virtuals are accessible. Just keep the "1" in mind when you rat and set them up.

Alan

June 21, 2004

Wheelcahir acessibility can mean a lot of different things, to different people. If you never have had the opportunity to push someone in a wheelchair, I suggest you look for one. All those little bumps, cracks, inclines, potholes, gravel, etc can be a serious challenge for some.

June 21, 2004

I am paralyzed from the waist down and havent been geocaching for a while. I love it when I am the one who can find the cache instead of someone who has gone with me. Most people don't realize that a 1 on terrain for them may not actually be a i in terrain for someone in a chair. Everybody would be able to find the cache and enjoy the sport. Rock on!

June 21, 2004

I enjoy running into other cachers when I'm out. Suggesting that cachers with full mobility stay away would virtually eliminate the chance of a mobility-challenged cacher from meeting other cachers while out on the hunt.

Just my dos centavos...

1.5k · June 21, 2004

You know, I was going to say something about the appropriateness of exculding people deliberately and how the non-handicapped accessable cachers weren't placed with the purpose of deliberately excluding people but why bother...

Have fun everyone. After that last post by Brian, I'm all funned out.

You know.... a few days ago I caught one of those disabled people using one of OUR parking spots! :huh: :huh:

2k · June 21, 2004

I am looking into trying a disguised birdhouse to place along a walking path but I worry that the punks would take it.

Has anyone had experience with full-sized fake rocks in public places? I know how kids like to climb and I worry the youngsters would kick over a light-weight fake, but if I make it too heavy the finder would have difficulty moving it.

I don't want some namby-pamby hunt that the wheelchair-bound gets pushed to and is told, "there it is." My dream is a series of caches that a single wheelchair-bound (could someone tell me the current PC term here?) person could drive to, get out, hunt, find, get swag and drive away without having to get someone else to push or hunt.

24.7k · June 21, 2004

...You know.... a few days ago I caught one of those disabled people using one of OUR parking spots!

I remember once as a student driving up to campus and checking out the best parking lot of all. That one lot close to all your classes. It was usually full but since it was 40 below zero it was worth a shot. The hike in can be a tad cold from the outlying lots. Anyway one truck was in front of me and I spotted the telltail white on blue wheel chair dude hanging from the rear view mirror. A quick look and I saw that the 6 reserved spots were all open and the one regular spot remaining was mine! This was my lucky day! Then "Mr. Lets conserve the 6 open spots for the one other person who uses them", zips into the one spot I can park in without getting my rig booted. Now I'm left looking for a spot in the south 40 and the long hike in. The cold was especially bitter that day.

1.5k · June 21, 2004

Okay, okay. I think that we have run this one up the flag pole for long enough. I will file it in the "Not in my lifetime" category. I will just work towards a series of real terrain 1 'caches. Thanks all for the input. Next time I will put on asbestos underwear first though. :huh:

2k · June 21, 2004

Don't give up on creating some caches that ALL cachers can enjoy, though.

38.2k · June 21, 2004

Next time I will put on asbestos underwear first though

Huh? I don't think I saw one flame in the thread. Most were well thought out responses explaining why they thought your idea was not a good one. If you think you were being flamed, I really don't know what to say, other than you haven't been around much.

1.5k · June 21, 2004

Next time I will put on asbestos underwear first though

Huh? I don't think I saw one flame in the thread. Most were well thought out responses explaining why they thought your idea was not a good one. If you think you were being flamed, I really don't know what to say, other than you haven't been around much.

Brian, come on man... I didn't think for one second that I was being flamed. check entry no 2!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Main Entry: fa·ce·tious

Pronunciation: f&-'sE-sh&s

Function: adjective

Etymology: Middle French facetieux, from facetie jest, from Latin facetia

1 : joking or jesting often inappropriately : WAGGISH <just being facetious>

2 : meant to be humorous or funny : not serious <a facetious remark>

synonym see WITTY

- fa·ce·tious·ly adverb

- fa·ce·tious·ness noun

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seiously though, thanks to all who posted. It was an idea that started out going in one direction and got pointed to another. That was the whole point of the thread.

4.7k · June 21, 2004

the thing about handicapped caches is that what's accessible for my friends ed (good upper body strength, lower body paralysis), mary ( good mobility, little strength) and our good caching friend mosaica (one leg) is very different. wheelchair accessible varies greatly according to the type of chair and according to the person using it. most accessibility guidelines try to strike some kind of balance, but people with mobiity issues often don't want you to make assumptions about what they can and cannot do.

often if they have questions about whether they can do a cache, they ask. i have recently began rating caches i have been to wth what i call the M system, a cache rating system that is designed to rate the difficulty level of a cache FOR ONE USER.

anyway, accesible caches are a good idea, but handicapped only caches seem kind of patronizing to me.

June 21, 2004

Lots of good points. As a gimpy-grrl caching freak, I've found the ratings to be useful, but only as one component. Other components (that probably also apply to two-legged folks) including the cache description (more is more, imo), emailing the owner, and asking cache buddies who've done the cache before. Not asking `hey, where is it,' but `hey, how wide is the ditch and how tall is the bank. I also use a LOT of maps & map products.

Many caches rated 1 are totally not wheelchair accessible (different than handicapped accessible). I'm trying to get over my own dislike of anything resembling confrontation and write to owners of caches listed as terrain 1 to maybe change 'em to 1.5.

I -personally- would not like the idea of handicapped-only caches. I hate the blue signs, any reference to my being Special, and so on. I like to feel like I'm just another Joe. I believe a well done cache has information that's useful to a whole range of abilities.

If you look at my finds so far, you can see that I've been able to do some terrain 5's (the boating ones which I do with my trusty kayak) and also a fair number which are not 1's, but which, with will and lots of butt-scuttling -can- be done.

Anyhow, my very hasty 2 øre. I'm off a-cachin'!

../Mosaica

2k · June 21, 2004

I agree with most of the populace on this one.

Just state on the cache page something like. "This cache has been made handicapped accessible and can be found in a wheelchair"

That way anyone that doesn't want to do such an easy cache for them can just not do it and anyone that wants an easy cache will be able to do it.

Why limit it to just a certain group. I'm sure also lots of cachers with very young children or toddlers would also like to find an easy to do cache.

June 21, 2004

Just a quick note. Making a cache accessible to a person in a wheelchair does not neccessarily mean that it's an easy cache or the sort of cache easily doable by a young child or toddler.

I -personally- dislike the word handicapped and would rather see information on a cache page such as `This could be done by a person pushing a sport-stroller or by someone on a bike or wheechair.'

I've done a few caches so far that were really hard, both for me and for the uber-fit two-legged sidekicks with me.

And some caches just take an unorthodox approach, some map research, a bit of outside-the-box thinking.

../Mosaica

2k · June 21, 2004

Just a quick note. Making a cache accessible to a person in a wheelchair does not neccessarily mean that it's an easy cache or the sort of cache easily doable by a young child or toddler.

I -personally- dislike the word handicapped and would rather see information on a cache page such as `This could be done by a person pushing a sport-stroller or by someone on a bike or wheechair.'

I've done a few caches so far that were really hard, both for me and for the uber-fit two-legged sidekicks with me.

And some caches just take an unorthodox approach, some map research, a bit of outside-the-box thinking.

../Mosaica

../Mosaica

Sorry for my ignorance on using the incorrect terminology.

No offense was meant.

2k · June 21, 2004

I think it is a great idea for handicapped caches,it would go better if for everyone.I have had 3 knee surgeries and I'm having a problem getting to most of them. If you do it.We will be there.Thanks,Team Reno

Take a look at Erinmoore Flake, Slow Down and enjoy the view. and Wheres the salt shaker. These are all caches that are at least crutch accesable and close to you.

BTW: I'm in the open to all camp on this topic.

June 22, 2004

I am looking into trying a disguised birdhouse to place along a walking path but I worry that the punks would take it.

Has anyone had experience with full-sized fake rocks in public places? I know how kids like to climb and I worry the youngsters would kick over a light-weight fake, but if I make it too heavy the finder would have difficulty moving it.

I don't want some namby-pamby hunt that the wheelchair-bound gets pushed to and is told, "there it is." My dream is a series of caches that a single wheelchair-bound (could someone tell me the current PC term here?) person could drive to, get out, hunt, find, get swag and drive away without having to get someone else to push or hunt.

One of our caches is a birdhouse and it has been happily hanging in a tree since we placed it. There is also another caching family in our area that likes to use birdhouses and all of their houses are still hanging around.

I think it's kind of funny, we do so much to be 'stealthy' and make these super camo containers and a birdhouse that practically screams, "LOOK AT ME!" is still hanging in the tree.

June 22, 2004

Ya know as topics go this is a good one, if no one argues out the rules, they will always be veauge. Like I said before Terrain 1 is suposed to be wheelchair accesable. If in doubt check in your area for Accesable parks and recreation areas, they may even shock you by having a ranger in or with a wheelchair that will help you. Good luck. and I hope you get to place a cache that is accesable soon.

1.2k · June 22, 2004

you might consider marking them accessible instead of only. more likely to get approved.

What I had planned to do was to say (politely) on the 'cache page what the intent of the 'caches was, and while yes, they would in theory be open to anyone, if you have full mobility, it would be appreciated if you would move along....

I don't support the notion that a cache owner can tell some cachers not to log a certain cache.

I might respect such a request anyway if it were somewhere far away from home. If it were near my house and would pop up among my nearest 100 unfound caches, I owuld log it no matter what you said, even if just in order to get it out of the way.

2k · June 22, 2004

I am looking into trying a disguised birdhouse to place along a walking path but I worry that the punks would take it.

Has anyone had experience with full-sized fake rocks in public places? I know how kids like to climb and I worry the youngsters would kick over a light-weight fake, but if I make it too heavy the finder would have difficulty moving it.

I don't want some namby-pamby hunt that the wheelchair-bound gets pushed to and is told, "there it is." My dream is a series of caches that a single wheelchair-bound (could someone tell me the current PC term here?) person could drive to, get out, hunt, find, get swag and drive away without having to get someone else to push or hunt.

One of our caches is a birdhouse and it has been happily hanging in a tree since we placed it. There is also another caching family in our area that likes to use birdhouses and all of their houses are still hanging around.

I think it's kind of funny, we do so much to be 'stealthy' and make these super camo containers and a birdhouse that practically screams, "LOOK AT ME!" is still hanging in the tree.

I came across one in Nebraska that was perfect, the hider had covered the birdhole with black tape so it looked like a normal birdhouse. However "Jim_eye" had placed it deep in a copse where "muggles" were unlikely to visit....

I'd like to do some disguised as bluebird houses and place them along fences, paths, etc. where a person of limited strength and mobility could get to them either along a paved walkway or similar obstruction-free path.

June 22, 2004

Sorry for my ignorance on using the incorrect terminology.

No offense was meant.

Hey, you didn't use incorrect terminology! My feelings about words like handicapped, disabled, Special, and the like are entirely personal to -me-. I have a personal strong dislike for being singled out solely because of my disability, even when it's meant kindly or solicitously. For instance --I've had otherwise nice & well-meaning strangers say to me: `Oh, hey, I have a nephew in a wheelchair. I should introduce you! I bet you'd have so much in common!'

I expect that others who stick out for various reasons feel similarly. Since my accident almost 13 years ago, I've lost the sweet ability to blend into the crowd, an ability I wasn't even aware of, much less appreciative of, before. Now I'm -always- the visual center of attention if I'm not in my truck or my kayak or in a crowd of other gimpy folks (I don't recall ever actually being in a crowd of etc, but you get the picture). Being the focus of curiosity gets tiring, and when it's mixed with obvious pity or horror, it gets painful as well as tiring. Therefore I always appreciate it when I can maintain the notion that I'm just a point somewhere on a range of general human abilities, rather than in a Special (ugh) category all my own. Yeah, it's just semantics, but semantics count (even if they don't break literal bones).

Anyhow, a long rambly way of saying that my response to disability-specific terminology is, as I said, a personal one.

I did get miffed though, at the implication that caches intended to be `handicapped-accessible' should be thought of as easy. I mean, it's pretty obvious why, right? It's like when one person posts a log about how they struggled to find a given cache, and another person posts a log right after saying how their blind, deaf, legless, oxygen-tank-using 103-year-old learning-disabled grandmother found the same cache in less than a minute after arriving at the location. The first guy feels somewhat deflated, you know? (I saw a reference somewhere on these forums to the abovementioned woman but can't recall who to thank for the image.)

So, Eric, please do continue using whichever words keep you talking about stuff. Me expressing my thoughts was just that.

../Mosaica

June 22, 2004

Like many of the previous posters I think it is a great idea placing a cache with the Handicapped in mind. I too agree making it exclusive is not a good idea and letting the entire community would be best. Again your desires to make it fully accessible is truly admirable. :tongue:

5.3k · June 22, 2004

you might consider marking them accessible instead of only. more likely to get approved.

What I had planned to do was to say (politely) on the 'cache page what the intent of the 'caches was, and while yes, they would in theory be open to anyone, if you have full mobility, it would be appreciated if you would move along....

My guess is that if you make the cache handy capped only, you might get 3 of 4 finds a year, while at the same time this would remove a locaton for a cache that could be placed for all cachers to find.

June 22, 2004

I think, it is a terrific idea. That's an idea, I could take up here in Switzerland as well.

Thanks!

1.3k · June 23, 2004

I don't have a problem with handicap-only caches if you consider myopia a handicap. In fact, please make the cache really big so that I can see it. :lol:

June 23, 2004

I guess I agree with everyone else - make the cache accessible to everyone. A well designed and thought out 1/1 cache in a nice location will be enjoyed by everyone. Even if you mostly like to hike, sometimes it's NICE to walk in the park!

If you really want it to be handicap accessible, you should consider visual handicaps as well. A fairly common technique here in Dallas is a multi-cache, where the first stage is a small label maker tape with the coordinates to the next stage. (I must have done 50 caches that used this trick.) Nothing wrong with this - except that people with visual handicaps frequently can't read them! I'd never thought about this until I met a local geocacher (who has at least 4x-5x the number of finds I have) who really does have bad problems with his vision. To read one of these labels, the guy will photo them with his digital camera, take it home, and enlarge the coords on his computer monitor. So while there's only so far you can go with this idea because you really do have to hide the cache, if you are really interested in making something handicap accessible, you should avoid inadvertantly making a portion of your cache an eye-exam! (A really tiny micro is a poor choice too for this very same reason.)

June 23, 2004

This thread has focused largely on Wheelchair accessibiliy. I want to weigh in here because I often cach with my buddy TLT, who is recovering from an illness and, being from the IL area, can not cope with the Gulf Coast TX heat. So we Appreciate GOOD virtual caches (let's not re-start that thread here ) and caches that don't involve much hiking or arduous terrain. Great (shady) Parks and intresting locations are the best for him We take supplies (water, wipes, ice) when we can, but we often cache on he spur of the moment becaue of his schdule...

FWIW...

Edited for broken arm typing, which is getting much better now that I have a real cast and not a splint and hence more use of my fingers..... :lol:

Edited June 23, 2004 by dekster

Handicapped Only 'caches?

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