Confrontations With Snakes

[+TeamK-9]

I had never really thought of this before since I started in the winter, but I recently remembered Western Pennsylvania's snakes. We have a couple varieties of rattlers, and we have copperheads, both are poisonous.

 

So my question, what are places that snakes like to hang out and/or you'd be most likely to stumble upon one.

 

And what the hell do you do when you find one?

[+Johnnie Stalkers]

what are places that snakes like to hang out and/or you'd be most likely to stumble upon one.

 

And what the hell do you do when you find one?

Depends on the species.

 

Eastern Diamond Backs usual hang out in sports bars and ball parks.

 

Cooper Heads pretty much stay confined to strip malls and casual dinners.

 

Follow these simple rules to reduce the chance of accidental snakebite:

 

Don't sleep next to brush, tall grass, large boulders, or trees. They provide hiding places for snakes. Place your sleeping bag in a clearing. Use mosquito netting tucked well under the bag. This netting should provide a good barrier.

 

Don't put your hands into dark places, such as rock crevices, heavy brush, or hollow logs, without first investigating.

 

Don't step over a fallen tree. Step on the log and look to see if there is a snake resting on the other side.

 

Don't walk through heavy brush or tall grass without looking down. Look where you are walking.

 

Don't pick up any snake unless you are absolutely positive it is not venomous.

 

Don't pick up freshly killed snakes without first severing the head. The nervous system may still be active and a dead snake can deliver a bite.

Edited April 8, 2004 by Johnnie Stalkers

[+briansnat]

Rocky areas, brush and log piles. Generally the kind of areas geocaches are hidden . That's one of the reasons I nearly always bring a trekking pole on my cache hunts and use it to poke around when looking for a cache. When you encounter a poisonous snake, the best thing to do is bash it over the head with a rock. Just kidding, just kidding. If you run into one, just walk away. They generally have no desire to tangle with humans.

 

Here is a pretty good link about venemous snakes throughout the world. It's from the US Army's survival manual. Kind of makes me glad I don't live in Brazil, Africa, Malaysia or Australia. Our rattlers, copperheads, coral snakes and cottonmouths are relatively harmless compared to some of the nasty stuff they have crawlin' around in those countries.

Edited April 8, 2004 by briansnat

[+aka Monkey]

Last time I found a poisonous snake it was a rattler sunning itself on a dirt road. I used my hiking pole to move it off the road so it wouldn't get squished. It was displaying a lot of aggression, but it never struck.

[+Mastifflover]

I have had the same question before. It seemed like the most likely place for the cache to be hidden was the perfect spot for a snake to hide also. While they really don't bother me my wife can't even watch tv if there is a snake on. She refuses to watch the Alligator Hunter because he is always playing with snakes.

[+sept1c_tank]

I'm doing some field research on this subject today. I'll be searching for this cache.

according to the logs and the owner, the area is loaded with western diamondbacks.

[+El Diablo]

At this time of the year you will see them most in the middle of the day sunning themselves. As the weather gets hotter this will change.

In hot weather you fill most likely see them in sunshine early in the morning and late afternoon. During the heat of the day you will find them in the shade, beside a log or under a rock...etc.

 

One of the ways to avoid them besides what others have already mentioned is to thump the ground with your hiking staff or step heavly. Snakes have very poor eye sight, they sense heat and feel vibrations and will realize that whatever is coming is too big to eat, so they will move away.

 

Venomus snakes strike in self defense or for food. They will not waste their venom on something to big to eat unless they feel threatened. Most snakes will avoid contact or will retreat when confronted if given a chance to do so. Water snakes of any kind are an exception to this rule. They tend to be extremely aggressive, poisonous or not.

 

Everyone should know how to recognize a posinous snake. With the exception of the Coral snake, venomus snakes heads are an arrow head shape. The Coral snake which is red, black and yellow doesn't have fangs, it has incisors and must chew on it's victim to inject it's poison. Of all the snakes out there, remember there are only 4 varieties of poisonous snakes, Rattlesnake, Copperhead, Water Moccasin (Cotton mouth) and the Coral snake. The vast majority of snakes you will run across are harmless.

 

Hope this helps.

 

El Diablo

[+Sparky-Watts]

Our biggest threat is timber rattlers and copperheads. Timber rattlers are much smaller than diamondbacks (though we do get a few of those, also) at only 3 feet long, but deliver a much more venomous bite. They tend to sleep in and around fallen trees in, you guessed it, the timber. Copperheads like to lay in leaves and brush on the ground in wooded areas, but also frequent rocky areas. In eastern Kansas, for some reason, they seem to prefer gooseberry bushes! Usually in the fall, they can be found under fallen leaves, as this provides perfect camoflage for them.

 

I read a log from someone on a cache in Wichita the other day where they claimed to have seen a cottonmouth (also known as a water moccasin) in a Wichita park. They posted a picture of it, and sure enough, it was a large bull snake....totally harmless, but guaranteed to leave a spot in your shorts if you stumble on one accidentally. There are hardly any water moccasins in Kansas, most of them down in the far southeast corner of the state. I never kill snakes, and often take time to play with them. Something I learned from my dad, I guess. If it's a poisonous snake, I'll either walk around it, or use a long stick to move it out of the way. Generally, once you move them, they'll head for cover and not return to attack you. Venomous snakes are not aggressive to humans (not in the states, anyway), and only strike out of defensive instinct if threatened.

[+Latitude 26]

I have found snakes while looking under objects, such as boards, logs, etc. They seem to like to hide under stuff, at least in south florida. Can't speak for the PA variety.

 

I once found a 6-foot boa under a piece of plywood! Fortunately, snakes don't bother me.

 

 

Good luck!

 

"Bassmedic"

[+Renegade Knight]

As a rule of thumb snakes like places, cachers like to put caches.

 

Bring a stick when it's snake season to poke first.

[+Nazgul]

I was in a nearby park the other day hunting down three caches. With the warm weather this park is one of many in the area known for rattlers and other snakes, (not to mention ticks, spiders, and bigger critters.)

 

So I had one snake cross the trail ahead of me, and then I was closing in on one cache and exactly where I needed to leave the trail to look for the cache there was the remnants of a recently-killed snake. So I look over at where the cache is, and it's in a clump of fallen/hollow logs surrounded by tall grass! I'm no fan of snakes and so I was not too happy. But I also wasn't about to give up on a cache, so I found a long branch some distance back on the trail and used it to poke, prod and whack the area ahead of me to shoo away any snakes, got the cache and got out of there.

 

I really need to get a hiking staff to use as a snake probe.

[+Rainwater]

Another way to tell if a snake is poisonious is to look at the pupils of the eyes. If they are cat like (slits) then they are poisonous...if they are round then they are not....doesnt say that they will still not bite you though....

[+StarshipTrooper]

...And what the hell do you do when you find one?

Why, eat it - of course!

 

-ST

[adampierson]

 

I really need to get a hiking staff to use as a snake probe.

A hiking stick is certainly a good investment.

 

I recommend something that is a little bit higher than ear level. I use a wooden pole that use to part of some garden implement. I always use it to poke around in the brush. Even when I see the cache I thoughly disturb/thrash the bush and shift the cache around. You never know if the snake is close to or resting on the cache some place!

[+TeamK-9]

The reason I posted this was because I saw a log by the owner of a cache where he said that he had went to renew his permit with DCNR and been told that the area was a very popular sunning spot for rattlers. I asked my dad if rattlers and other snakes were a fairly big problem in this area and he scared the s*** out of me by basically telling me everything you gusy have said, that snakes like to hide where you might find a cache.

 

I'm a bit anal with snakes, but I will heed everyone's suggestions.

 

Any more?

[Bobthearch]

I've worked in the Southern US forests and the Southwestern deserts for over ten years, on crews of 2-10 people. Sure we see lots of snakes, but I don't consider them a threat. In fact, not one time, ever, never, has anyone been bitten.

 

I still get startled when I look down and see a snake too close, though.

 

Yellowjackets, ticks, mosquitos, and poison ivy on the other hand are always getting us, and have led to many doctor trips for crew members. Be alert to the possibility that snakes may be anywhere a cache is, but keep the concern in balance with the actual level of risk.

 

My best advice if you see snake, give it plenty of room and walk around.

-Bob

[+aka Monkey]

The Coral snake which is red, black and yellow doesn't have fangs, it has incisors and must chew on it's victim to inject it's poison.

Important point: The coral snake has bands in the order of red, YELLOW, black, not the way you listed. Common kingsnakes, or "milk snakes," have bands in the red, black, yellow order. You can reasily remember it with this mnemonic: "Red touch yellow, kill a fellow. Red touch black, poison I lack." Kingsnakes will kill and eat poisonous snakes, so killing one of them by mistake is totally counterproductive (although I really don't advise anyone kill snakes, as there's no need).

 

Another thing I want to point out is that the idea that only snakes with arrow-shaped heads or vertical pupils are poisonous is wrong. These are good guidelines, but you will find both poisonous and non-poisonous snakes with these characteristics.

 

The best bet is to learn what venomous snakes are in your area and learn to identify them. I can't think of any spots within North America that would have more than three or four venomous snakes, so this should be easy.

Edited April 8, 2004 by Indiana Cojones

[+Rebel]

I've put together an information page of the six venomous snakes found in Georgia. Might come in handy for y'all.

 

There's also my Snake in the Cache for more info.

Edited April 8, 2004 by Rebel

[+Webfoot]

Of all the snakes out there, remember there are only 4 varieties of poisonous snakes, Rattlesnake, Copperhead, Water Moccasin (Cotton mouth) and the Coral snake. The vast majority of snakes you will run across are harmless.

Not to be nitpicky, but this only applies to North America I believe. There are lot of other dangerous snakes in other parts of the world.

 

We have only to deal with rattlesnakes where I live, but for the most part, I educate my kids with walking ahead of the trail, looking far enough ahead, so they don't step on a snake in the process. Occasionally, that doesn't even work as my son last week almost stepped on an aligator lizard which was sunning itself.

 

The cache pictured below is in an area that is reputed to be infested with rattlesnakes. Having already known that, I chose to wait until November to find this one so as to not have to deal with the snakes in the first place.

[adampierson]

Important point: The coral snake has bands in the order of red, YELLOW, black, not the way you listed. Common kingsnakes, or "milk snakes," have bands in the red, black, yellow order. You can reasily remember it with this mnemonic: "Red touch yellow, kill a fellow. Red touch black, poison I lack." Kingsnakes will kill and eat poisonous snakes, so killing one of them by mistake is totally counterproductive (although I really don't advise anyone kill snakes, as there's no need).

 

Another thing I want to point out is that the idea that only snakes with arrow-shaped heads or vertical pupils are poisonous is wrong. These are good guidelines, but you will find both poisonous and non-poisonous snakes with these characteristics.

 

The best bet is to learn what venomous snakes are in your area and learn to identify them. I can't think of any spots within North America that would have more than three or four venomous snakes, so this should be easy.

Here is a popular mnemonic device to tell the difference between a king snake and coral snake.

 

Red and yellow, kill a fellow (if the red band is next to a yellow band - coral snake)

 

Red and black, venom lack (if the red band is next to a black band - king snake)

[+aka Monkey]

You can reasily remember it with this mnemonic: "Red touch yellow, kill a fellow. Red touch black, poison I lack."

Here is a popular mnemonic device to tell the difference between a king snake and coral snake.

 

Red and yellow, kill a fellow (if the red band is next to a yellow band - coral snake)

 

Red and black, venom lack (if the red band is next to a black band - king snake)

Yes, exactly.

[+rooboy]

As someone that grew up in a country where almost every snake is venomous (Down Under) and I've seen plenty of them, the one cardinal rule with snakes is LEAVE THEM ALONE! Then you don't have to worry about whether the snake can kill you or not.

 

The next rule to follow is be aware of your surroundings at all times.

 

Also remember that there is a difference between a threat and a risk. A threat to me is anything that I think can harm me (car crash, killed by a meteor, bitten by a snake). A risk is a threat that I think might possibly affect me. So I consider being involved in a car accident a risk and being killed by a meteor a threat.

 

Another thing, the US Army (?) snake reference that someone pointed out is not a good reference. I looked at this and noticed that many of Australias venomous snakes are not even mentioned (brown snake, black snake). There there is the killer Australian funnel web spider and the killer blue ringed octopus. This link has a better list of nasty Australian creatures:

 

Nasty Australian Creatures

 

Ciao

RooBoy

[+El Diablo]

I would like to add one other thing that no one has mentioned yet. This goes to you night cachers. Snakes during the summer months are more active at night than any other time.

 

El Diablo

[+Mastifflover]

Another way to tell if a snake is poisonious is to look at the pupils of the eyes.  If they are cat like (slits) then they are poisonous...if they are round then they are not....doesnt say that they will still not bite you though....

I don't think that I want to be close enough to look into its eyes!!!

[+Fritz_Monroe]

I agree with all the advise given. The biggest thing to remember with snakes in North America is that they aren't interested in attacking you. Venom is too precious to them to waste on something that they can't eat. If a venomous snake bites you, it's because you put yourself in the situation where it sees you as a threat. It's just defending itself.

 

If you get bit, try not to panic. (I know, easier said than done) Snake bites from native North American snakes are rarely deadly. You will hurt for a while. You won't enjoy yourself. You will probably be pretty sick. But you probably won't die. Try to pay attention to the snake so you can describe it, and get to the hospital.

 

As for Rooboy, you have the good critters down there. A friend went TDY to a base down under. The first thing he needed to do when he arived was get a class on what could kill him. The class was basically, if it's a spider, it can kill you. If it's a snake, it can kill you.

 

F_M

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

After 25 years of playing in the high desert of northern Az. and southern Ut. I firmly believe that the danger from snakes is over rated.

 

Most of the time you can walk right past a rattlesnake and they don't even move. In all the time we spend in the desert we have only heard 4 or 5 snakes 'buzz' at us.

 

If you decide to prod one with a stick or hiking staff remember that a rattlesnake can strike it's FULL length! Do NOT believe they can only strike 1/2 their body length! I have seen them strike full length.

 

I used to have one in an aquarium and it would strike its full length.

 

If you happen upon a snake just back away SLOWLY. Fast movement seems to trigger the strike reflex. After you have backed up then just sidestep the critter and be on your way.

 

Don't forget to get a good picture of the snake!

 

John

[+TeamK-9]

My one concern is that I'll be looking for a cache, I'll pick up a rock, and there'll be a snake under neath. What the heck do you do then?

[+Webfoot]

Don't forget to get a good picture of the snake!

 

John

Oh, that reminds me. I was down in Why, AZ a couple of years ago and on the windows of the general store there, they had pictures of a Western Diamondback eating a rabbit. Was way impressive.

[uperdooper]

i like snakes. my hubby is petrified of them. now spiders? eeeeeekkk!

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

My one concern is that I'll be looking for a cache, I'll pick up a rock, and there'll be a snake under neath. What the heck do you do then?

 

Odds are that will not happen. What will probably will be there is a nest of scorpions.

 

Before you move the rock just nudge it with your boot toe. If you don't hear anything grab the rock by it's edges and slide it sideways. If anything moves just step back and assess the situation.

 

John

[+Oneyedjack]

Another way to tell if a snake is poisonious is to look at the pupils of the eyes.  If they are cat like (slits) then they are poisonous...if they are round then they are not....doesnt say that they will still not bite you though....

Who in the heck is going to get close enough to see if it has slits in his eyes

[+Webfoot]

Another way to tell if a snake is poisonious is to look at the pupils of the eyes.  If they are cat like (slits) then they are poisonous...if they are round then they are not....doesnt say that they will still not bite you though....

Who in the heck is going to get close enough to see if it has slits in his eyes

Well, my pet snake has round eyes, but she bites now. Feels like a bunch of mini-razor blade slicing into your finger all at the same time. I've taken to using a rubber glove when I need to get her out of her tank.

 

She's gotten cranky in her old age.

[+gorillagal]

My one concern is that I'll be looking for a cache, I'll pick up a rock, and there'll be a snake under neath. What the heck do you do then?

If they're under a rock, they're usually too cool to move very quickly. In my herpetology class in college, we'd go on field trips to find snakes. Most of them we found sleeping under rocks. Even the copperheads were slow enough to pick up with little risk (but I didn't try). Snakes are cold-blooded. They need to warm up in order to move very fast. So, put the rock back down gently and apologize for waking him

[+Sparky-Watts]

Snakes are cold-blooded. They need to warm up in order to move very fast. So, put the rock back down gently and apologize for waking her.

 

Sounds like my ex-wife....but I didn't put the rock back down gently, and therefore, she never woke up again....

[+Blind Avocado]

A couple of visitors at this cache found a snake. It was not too long after I visited. scroll down the log from 4Luckey Penny to see a picture.

[+crzycrzy]

Here in So Cal there are many many many snakes...

Especially where I live on the edge of the Saddleback Mountain Range...

Generally when I find rattlers, I pick them up carefully, inspect them for ticks.

If I find a tick, I will usually remove it, and chuck it in my mouth.

(Great protein.)

Otherwise, after giving them a pretty thorough health inspection, I will let them go.

So, no worries here. Snakes are great !

Edited April 9, 2004 by crzycrzy

[+Team GPSaxophone]

I'm badger badger surprised that mushroom mushroom Snoogans didn't come in here and badger badger say Argh! Snake!

[+Sparky-Watts]

I'm badger badger surprised that mushroom mushroom Snoogans didn't come in here and badger badger say Argh! Snake!

[+webscouter.]

As a scout camp staffer I have had the oppurtunity to take a couple of young men to the hospital for copperhead bites. In both cases NOTHING was done. No anti-venom, no ice packs. The doctors at the hospital told me that more people have allergic reactions to the anti-venom for copperhead bites than serious reactions to the bites themselves. This isn't to say that you shouldn't go to the hospital, if you have a severe reaction to the bite you want to be where you can be taken care of, just wanted to let you know that the folklore about the bites is greater than the truth about the bites.

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

My one concern is that I'll be looking for a cache, I'll pick up a rock, and there'll be a snake under neath. What the heck do you do then?

If they're under a rock, they're usually too cool to move very quickly. In my herpetology class in college, we'd go on field trips to find snakes. Most of them we found sleeping under rocks. Even the copperheads were slow enough to pick up with little risk (but I didn't try). Snakes are cold-blooded. They need to warm up in order to move very fast. So, put the rock back down gently and apologize for waking him

This is another fallacy I'm afraid. They can be quick regardless of the weather once they have come out of the winter den. Don't know how fast they are when they're in their den.

 

John

[+shawhh]

watch where you step and place your hands. if you see a snake and either don't know if it is poisonous, or are not sure, just walk around it and go on your way. most people bitten by snakes are bothering the animal in question. as stated earlier they certainly have no desire to waste good venom on something that they cannot eat, and contrary to popular belief will not seek out and attack a person! i live in the southeastern portion of north carolina and spend a lot of time on the water and in the woods. i have run across snakes many times and have yet to have one make a move to attack. on the other hand i've many times had them to try to either lie still in the hope i wouldn't see them and pass on by, or have had them try to retreat. i've never witnessed aggressive behavior by water snakes either, and this includes cottonmouth water moccassins. the cottonmouth will do everything in its power to avoid a confrontation (displaying the cottonny lining of its mouth, beating its tail on the ground), and if that fails will retreat if given the time. what is frequently mistaken for aggressive behavior in water snakes is in fact, mere curiosity. if a water snake hears splashing around it may come to see if the cause of the commotion is something small and helpless thrashing about that might make an easy meal. if you're bigger than a bullfrog you're off the menu. if you want to worry about danger from the fauna in the great outdoors you're better off to worry about ticks and mosquitoes. they are a much bigger threat than the poor old snakes. don't worry about them. enjoy the hunt. -harry

[+shawhh]

as to emergency room care of snakebites it is correct that frequently only a wait and see attitude is taken in regards to the decision to give or not to give antivenom. unless evidence of severe envenomation is presented the risk of allergic reaction to antivenom is greater than the benefit to be derived. generally in the e.r. an i.v. will be started (kind of like a life preserver in a boat- there if you need it), your wound will be cleansed and dressed ( there is a high risk of gas gangrene infection from the puncture wound caused by a pit viper strike), your tetanus vaccine will be updated, pain will be controlled with appropriate medicines, the affected body part (usually a limb) will be watched for circulatory compromise secondary to swelling of the tissue at the strike site, and you will be watched for evidence of decompensation secondary to envenomation. should you show such evidence a test dose of the appropriate antivenom will be given and, if you show no allergic reaction, the appropriate dose of antivenom given. you may also be premedicated at the same time to blunt any allergic reaction to the antivenom (meds such as benadryl, tagamet, solumedrol). most people that i've cared for in the e.r. who came in with snake bite did not require antivenom and were observed until we were certain that there was no evidence of significant envenomation and were later discharged. the main thing if bitten is to try to remain calm and go as quickly as possible to the nearest treatment facility to receive appropriate care. just because a person doesn't need antivenom, doesn't mean that a trip to the e.r. is not justified in the setting of snakebite. - harry, RN

Edited April 9, 2004 by shawhh

[+RJFerret]

When I was a kid travelling w/my parents, we came across a rattler a few feet up in a bush at Pink Coral Sands State Park out West somewhere.

 

Coming from Connecticut, where the only poison snake we had was Copperheads and they are VERY rare (although Timber Rattlers are moving back in, they aren't populous to count yet).

 

We took pictures. Of course, a camoflauged rattler in a shrub won't show in pics, so you want as close a shot as possible. Not having telephotos on us, at my encouragement, Dad and I stood next to each other, took one step forward and snapped another pic. We repeated that until it's rattled and moved away.

 

All the poisonous snakes I've seen in CT have had their mouths filled with frogs. Great to watch, takes about 20 minutes and the poor frog is conscious the entire time (the first snake was noticed 'cause once a minute the frog would "croak".)

 

I've seen bunches of other snakes, and they've all been COOL. Trying to get hog-nosed to puff up, the reclusive northern brown is really pretty, a very friendly eastern milk...

 

Know where I've found the most? When mowing my yard!

 

Don't fret it during caching... (The snake'll probably flee before you even are aware of it's presence...)

 

Enjoy,

 

Randy

[+Jestre]

Anyone in Eastern NC sees a cottonmouth near a cache, let me know! I'm trying to find one for the collection. ;-)

[+captnemo]

Out here in the Mojave Desert of So. Cal. we have basicaly two types of rattlers, the Sidewinder and the Mojave Green

 

The Mojave Green has especially potent venom, is small and not to be messed with. The Sidewinder is far more common and not nearly as potent.

 

Best advise is watch where you are going. Never stick your hands anywhere you can't fully see. Use a hikeing stick or other long item to pock and prod first. Turn rock and boards over very carefully, from the edge away from you first so that the rock or board is between you and a possible snake. Snake train your dog to avoid all snakes as the danger to them is far greater then to you.

 

Edit: Both types are agressive especially the Mojave Green when they first come out in the spring.

Edited April 9, 2004 by captnemo

[+GeoSharks]

We found two rattlesnakes last month at Spam Ranch in N. Cal. They were very close to the cache location.

 

 

Then my wife crossed paths with third as she was walking out. She didn't stop to take a picture of it.

[+TinTN]

She didn't stop to take a picture of it.

I wouldn't have either! In fact, I don't think my feet would have been touching the ground.