Geocaching.com has turned into the old boys club

May 8, 2003

I am sure many of us have noticed the gradual change in peoples attitudes over the last few months. It seems every reply to a newbie cacher asking a valid question pretty much goes for the cachers throat. These people may not know how to do a search of the forums to get an answer to their questions. As well these people are your neigbours, your friends and people that share the same common interests as you. Come on people where is your sense of decency? Why don't you just reply to their questions rather than replying that the question has already been discussed before they were active members of Geocaching.com and just posting links. Is it an unwritten rule that you cannot say anything valid if the poster has not had over 200 posted messages and under 150 finds? This club is getting very exclusive. The old boys know who you are. Are we going to be grilled because of our lack of posted messages and finds? Only time will tell.

The Two Navigators

20.7k · May 8, 2003

Its sad that you are about to be markwelled to a thread from last month...

Part of me agrees with you that it does happen that there are aggressive 'non-answers' to fairly innocent newbie questions. IMO, if someone does not want to help a newbie, they should simply not respond to a thread, rather than belittle the questioner.

I do feel that in the last month or so, we have seen less of this attack mentality. What we continue to see is sarcasm that is impossible for a newbie to discern.

1.7k · May 8, 2003

insert impossible-to-discern sarcasm here.

20.7k · May 8, 2003

Thanks Fuzzy. My how time flies. I didn't realize that the thread was that old. Frankly, I was too lazy to look for it.

6.4k · May 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy:
http://ubbx.Groundspeak.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=5726007311&f=2016058331&m=5356091

Nice link, old boy.

I rather think my post in that thread works pretty well as a reply here too.

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

20.7k · May 8, 2003

Did he call me old?

24.7k · May 8, 2003

I just checked my pants for my decency...It sure as heck wasn't there.

But as for an old boys club, why I don't think Mopar and I have agreen on more than 1 out of the last 4 threads we crossed paths in. Another regular and I seemed to have butted heads on caves, and I've been on both ends of the gun of the snazzmeister.

Still I like to think I'm more likley to "slam' a good 'ol boy" than a newbie.

=====================

Wherever you go there you are.

4.3k · May 8, 2003

Ooh, getting close to my pet peeve

Even when someone doesn't "Stomp a Newbie," I see a strong tendency among some old hands to just brush people off.

An example: Newbie asks for comments about problem of caches being trashed or disappearing.

Experienced user comes along and says something like "Maybe you should use better containers or hide them better. I hardly ever have this problem."

Not hostile at all. At first glance it's polite and helpful. But...

Read it again. Doesn't offer any real help except for the hint that the newbie is doing something wrong. The writer doesn't offer any specific advice for improvments, but implies how they do it is better.

I have no problem if an old hand says "I know more than you, let me help..." It's just that some of them stop at the comma. If you're gonna tell me that you have a better way, go the next step and tell me what that actually is

1.7k · May 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Lee David Rimar:
I have no problem if an old hand says "I know more than you, let me help..." It's just that some of them stop at the comma.

See, the problem is that you used a comma. You should use a semicolon; I never have problems with those.

May 8, 2003

I found this site less than a year ago. At first all I knew to do was read the recent discussion postings. I learned an awful lot and am very appreciative of those who patiently posted thorough answers to newbie questions.

After awhile it's natural to think others should know at least what you know and think less of the newbie. But if anyone reflects back to when they got started in this, they'd have to admit they needed those answers just as much as today's newbies.

Again, I respect the patient answers, still given to newbies, even if I already know the answer.

The humor at times is priceless.

The attacks are a waste of everyone's time.

Faster, Better, Cheaper

Pick any two.

20.7k · May 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Lee David Rimar:
...Even when someone _doesn't_ "Stomp a Newbie," I see a strong tendency among some old hands to just brush people off...

LDR, I've been with you on some recent issues, but I have to disagree with you this time. I read his post and your comment. I found his to be appropriate. It was merely concise. Perhaps too concise for your taste. Thats OK. When you asked for clarification, it came quickly.

Fuzzy, that was very funny.

2.3k · May 8, 2003

Quite right, chaps, well I must be off. Tee time is in 30, and we mustn't be late...ring you up later...ta ta...

May 8, 2003

It isn't all boys! And most of them seem to be nice fellows with a decent sense of humor. But i will admit, I usually only answer a question after giving others the chance to chime in on the subject. And half the time, the thread is so far from the question when I decide I may answer it, that I just don't bother. We really need an OT section. The OT food thread was quite fun.

-Jennifer

Age does not bring wisdom, but it does give perspective.

4.3k · May 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by sbell111:
I found his (commnts) to be appropriate. It was merely concise. Perhaps too concise for your taste.

Yes sir, that's exactly the case -- I thought the experienced user in this case was too concise. Cut off their remarks before expanding them into something genuinely useful.

And begging the Colonel's pardon, but when you remarked...

quote:
...when you asked for clarification, it came quickly.

... I must point out that the helpful comments about ammo boxes versus tupperware and using camouflage came from a different experienced than the one who offered that first hint.

Don't get me wrong. I'm sure a lot of "overly concise" answers are genuinely meant to be helpful, not deliberately trying to brush people off. But the most experienced users often forget that a beginner might need more than just a hint.

Knowledge is wealth - share the wealth.

---

LDR.

May 8, 2003

So far I've had nothing but helpful, polite and patient answers to my questions. I try not to be redundant and search through threads to find what I'm looking for, but when I can't find just the right thing, then I'll ask.

I thank you all for the help and patience!

Team Kender - Willow and Dan exploring the Bay Area backroads!

38.2k · May 8, 2003

quote:
An example: Newbie asks for comments about problem of caches being trashed or disappearing.

Experienced user comes along and says something like "Maybe you should use better containers or hide them better. I hardly ever have this problem."

LDR,

That was me (and not quite an exact quote). He complained and I made a brief suggestion (just as I did to your question in an earlier thread). If the poster said, "My caches keep getting stolen, what can I do to keep this from happening?", I would have answered that question. Besides, the person wasn't a newbie. He is a veteran geocacher, with 19 hides.

There is another thread posted about the same time where someone specifically asked for cache hiding tips and I gave what I thought was a helpful answer.

I'm never one to stomp a newbie and I go out of my way to answer any questions people pose. I've answered the same questions dozens of times. In reality, I could probably create half a dozen form replys and cut and paste them, but I don't. Some people aren't as patient as I am and simply "markwell" an older, related thread. I don't see anything wrong with that method either.

quote:
Why don't you just reply to their questions rather than replying that the question has already been discussed before they were active members of Geocaching.com and just posting links.

There are many subjects come up, which have previously been discussed in detail. I don't see what is wrong with posting a link to the old discussion. Many people find it helpful. It's not like you're blowing the person off. In effect, you're just saying "that's an interesting question and it's already been addressed. "Here's where."

[This message was edited by BrianSnat on May 08, 2003 at 04:49 PM.]

May 8, 2003

Does anybody remember this link on Flame warriors: http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame1.html

I think there are a lot of flame warriors here who ought to go out and hunt caches more and post less.

4.7k · May 8, 2003

briansnat is one of the guys who regularly reads the starter threads and helps where he can.

you don't like an answer or two and suddenly everyone's snippy? this, i don't need. hoch mir nit kein tchynik.

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

4.3k · May 8, 2003

Hey Brian,

I wasn't picking on you for any personal reasons. I've just seen a lot of "that sort of thing" from a number of folks. The one example I cited was just what came to mind first, but by no means a worst-case example.

I hope you didn't take offense. I know you're one of the bright lights around here.

Personally, I like pointers to previous discussions, as long as they're on target.

---

LDR.

May 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Jamethiel:
It isn't all boys

There's the thing. If Mitsuko would post here asking a question, we'd all be falling over ourselves trying to help her out. <sigh>. I miss Mitsuko.

I must admit, not wanting to be Markwelled I do search high and low for topics to see if what I'm about to post has been discussed already. While it is good to bump these old posts up once and awhile, starting a new one along the same lines ain't that bad a thing either.

May 8, 2003

Hmm, for what its worth, I've asked a # of questions, someone has referred to it having been previously discussed. I read those logs and learned, at at the same time more ideas have been relayed by newcomers, or fresh experiences since the last time it was discussed.

Personally, i am amazed at the way many of you are able to recall topics that HAVE been discussed previously. From this newbie, thanks for the old and the new.

Two roads diverged in the woods and I,

I took the one less traveled,

and that is how I found the cache.

May 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by The Two Navigators:
These people may not know how to do a search of the forums

Heck, I've been online since 300 baud was fast and I do this for a living, and _I_ can't figure out how to search these new forums!

ApK

4.5k · May 8, 2003

People who are offended by newbie questions should skip the "Getting Started" section. Most people like to help - it's the mentor in us. Just ask away.

Now, where did I put that Vioxx?

Alan

3k · May 8, 2003

AHEM!!!

Some of us are old girls!

Cache you later,

Planet

So many caches, so little time.

4.8k · May 8, 2003

quote:
AHEM!!!
Some of us are old girls!

Yep! Some of us are girls/women/ladies whatever the best term is. BUT..... define "old." I don't meet it and I don't know or care what your age is because it doesn't matter. You don't meet the definition either! "Old" is a state of mind and I know from your posts that you are not "old." At least not in the way I think of it!

6.4k · May 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by carleenp:
Yep! Some of us are girls/women/ladies whatever the best term is. BUT..... define "old." I don't meet it and I don't know or care what your age is because it doesn't matter. You don't meet the definition either! "Old" is a state of mind and I know from your posts that you are not "old." At least not in the way I think of it!

Ya know, sucking up to the Grande Dame of the OBC probably WILL get you in!

Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon.

1.4k · May 8, 2003

How much does it cost to join the "club"?

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

9.2k · May 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by jeff35080:
How much does it cost to join the "club"?

Jeff

Jeff, funny you should ask that, as I'm being initiated into the Old Boy's Club this weekend at an Event Cache Campout. The "cost" includes having to share a tent with Mopar. I'm a little nervous, but I get that way before all life-changing events.

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

Some mornings, it just doesn't pay to chew through the leather straps. - Emo Phillips

May 9, 2003

i agree that i'ma girl!

and that you boys are just lucky that my methamphetamine sister isnt here because then you'd know!!!

gril power!

May 9, 2003

Suggestion: Let's all turn the machines off, go for a walk in the sun or rain and wonder at it all. Let the magic back in and try again. Or not. . .

May 9, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Planet:
_AHEM!!!_

Some of us are old girls!

You shore are a purdy ol' girl...and likes to fish!! What more could a feller ask fer

*

4.8k · May 9, 2003

quote:
Ya know, sucking up to the Grande Dame of the OBC probably WILL get you in!

Well, sucking up is cheaper than buying a way in!

May 9, 2003

quote:
as I'm being initiated into the Old Boy's Club this weekend at an Event Cache Campout. The "cost" includes having to share a tent with Mopar. I'm a little nervous, but I get that way before all life-changing events.

thats a high price to pay

I'm a man and I can change if I have to,I guess.

May 9, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by The Leprechauns:
Jeff, funny you should ask that, as I'm being initiated into the Old Boy's Club this weekend at an Event Cache Campout. The "cost" includes having to share a tent with Mopar. I'm a little nervous, but I get that way before all life-changing events.

Find a 'happy place' Lep.

6.5k · May 9, 2003

Geocaching.com has turned into the old boys club

I'm shocked and surprised that no one has quoted the great Groucho Marx here yet:

I would never join a club that would have me as a member!

These changes in latitudes, changes in attitudes;

Nothing remains quite the same.

Through all of the islands and all of the highlands,

If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane

1.7k · May 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by The Leprechauns:
[...] I'm being initiated into the Old Boy's Club this weekend at an Event Cache Campout. The "cost" includes having to share a tent with Mopar. I'm a little nervous, but I get that way before all life-changing events.

Should we be concerned that we haven't seen Lep yet this morning?

9.2k · May 12, 2003

I'm alive and (almost) well, after a marathon caching weekend that began with a cross-state drive on Friday afternoon and ended with limping up to bed at 3 a.m. Monday morning.

After a few too many caches with 3 and 4 star terrain ratings, I am definitely feeling like a member of the OLD boys' club!!!!!

x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

Some mornings, it just doesn't pay to chew through the leather straps. - Emo Phillips

2.7k · May 12, 2003

In my OWN OPINON this is what has happened to a lot of Cachers!

Eight Main Symptoms of Group Think

1. Illusion of Invulnerability: Members ignore obvious danger, take extreme risk, and are overly optimistic.

2. Collective Rationalization: Members discredit and explain away warning contrary to group thinking.

3. Illusion of Morality: Members believe their decisions are morally correct, ignoring the ethical consequences of their decisions.

4. Excessive Stereotyping: The group constructs negative sterotypes of rivals outside the group.

5. Pressure for Conformity: Members pressure any in the group who express arguments against the group's stereotypes, illusions, or commitments, viewing such opposition as disloyalty.

6. Self-Censorship: Members withhold their dissenting views and counter-arguments.

7. Illusion of Unanimity: Members perceive falsely that everyone agrees with the group's decision; silence is seen as consent.

8. Mindguards: Some members appoint themselves to the role of protecting the group from adverse information that might threaten group complacency.

When I reach the fork in the road I prefer to travel to the left, and march to a different drummer. The sounds of silence are awe inspiring.

Tahosa - Dweller of Mountain Tops.

May 12, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Tahosa:
In my _OWN OPINON_ this is what has happened to a lot of Cachers!

1. Illusion of Invulnerability: Members ignore obvious danger, take extreme risk, and are overly optimistic.

If I'm not really invulnerable - can I take off this cape and tights? (they're itchy!!!)

I'm guessing you just finished up a 'team building' exercise at work?

I was steering clear of this thread but couldn't resist this bait. Knowing your limits is one thing, but I didn't think optimism was a fault!

Geocaching.com has turned into the old boys club

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