Wheel of Challenges

[+MNTA]

2 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

Nowhere have I said that the promotions have to appeal to everyone all the time, but for the last four or five years all the promotions have just been about quantity and sustaIned high find rates.

This is a trend that will continue. Adapt or move on. Be happy

 

Personally I love them and glad this on is harder that the previous ones. 

[+jamadad]

On 3/21/2023 at 3:07 PM, Rock Chalk said:

 

It's not required to participate.

That's like throwing a pile of drugs on the table in front of an addict and telling them, "You don't have to take them."

That doesn't make it OK!
 

[+thebruce0]

2 hours ago, jamadad said:

That's like throwing a pile of drugs on the table in front of an addict and telling them, "You don't have to take them."

Comparing digital souvenir images for a family friendly healthy hobby to addictive narcotics probably won't make this thread last much longer... =/

[+thebruce0]

5 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

the last four or five years all the promotions have just been about quantity and sustaIned high find rates.

Find 10 caches of some type, for example, is literally about quantity and a sustained find rate (souvenir period), where 'high' is always going to be subjective (and if you say that one period isn't a 'sustained rate', then 100 finds in one month isn't a "sustained high find rate", just a single target goal). And correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe you've complained about find count requirements even that low by screen capping your local region showing how few caches are available under whatever categorization was required, even for lower counts than 100. I've almost come to expect a screencap of your local cache map whenever there's a new promo

 

2 hours ago, MNTA said:

Adapt or move on. Be happy

Sentimentally, I agree. But I do certainly support HQ trying to find a way to address issues of lack of available finds in some areas. That's another reason I think the ranked easy/medium/hard souvenirs for this promotion (even though month #1 has no additional parameters) are a step in the right direction. 100 in a month is a goal that, probably, most of the worldwide community won't earn, either by choice or ability or availability, but it is one that is certainly more attractive to those who've been pining for a goal that's a little more "advanced", for a challenge. And that's just fine.

[+niraD]

4 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

And correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe you've complained about find count requirements even that low by screen capping your local region showing how few caches are available under whatever categorization was required, even for lower counts than 100. I've almost come to expect a screencap of your local cache map whenever there's a new promo

I'll chime in to support barefootjeff's point though. I live (and have lived) in fairly cache-dense areas. I used the Month of Souvenirs to launch my own year-long streak.

 

But I thought the promotion that focused on a single cache of an unusual type each period was more interesting than the "earn a bunch of points by finding a bunch of caches" promotions, even if they did change the scoring a bit each time. And this promotion has potential, depending on what options are on the wheel, but it's gotten off to a "find a bunch of caches" start...

[+JL_HSTRE]

23 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

I now have 9 caches that haven't been found in over a year, with three of those last found more than two years ago. They're not on some far-away mountain-top, they're all within 10km of urban areas and main roads, but what they all have in common is they're terrain 3 or higher and have the Takes more than 1 hour attribute. Spending your precious caching time doing caches with that attribute won't get you over the line in these promotions. Caches like these are the antithesis of the sort of caching these promotions are promoting and, sooner or later, COs will twig to that and stop hiding them.

 

There have been some past souvenir challenges that rewarded finding nontraditional hides.

 

I suspect rewards based on D/T might encourage inflated ratings.

 

Souvenir promotions are not the reason for a lack of interest in T3 hides. Geocaching has suffered a decline in the kind of people that seek those since at least the introduction of the app.

 

GPS was originally a novelty that appealed primarily to outdoorsy people. Once everyone had a GPS in their pocket, anyone could try geocaching. Lots of those people are not outdoors types. Some convert and embrace the outdoors; most never will. (Outdoors is not the same as outside.)

 

Your problem isn't geocaching; it's geocachers. 

 

Groundspeak has always favored inclusiveness over gatekeeping. As such it will always cater primarily to the kind of geocachers who will mostly hide and seek the kinds of geocaches you don't want.

 

And ultimately why shouldn't they? Groundspeak is a for-profit company. It's trying to attract the most people to geocaching, not the "right" people. 

 

16 hours ago, jamadad said:

That's like throwing a pile of drugs on the table in front of an addict and telling them, "You don't have to take them."

That doesn't make it OK!

 

Anyone actually addicted to geocaching I sincerely suggest they seek professional help. Some geocachers do have a diagnosable problem.

 

Edited April 8, 2023 by JL_HSTRE

[+thebruce0]

14 hours ago, niraD said:

I'll chime in to support barefootjeff's point though. I live (and have lived) in fairly cache-dense areas. I used the Month of Souvenirs to launch my own year-long streak.

 

But I thought the promotion that focused on a single cache of an unusual type each period was more interesting than the "earn a bunch of points by finding a bunch of caches" promotions, even if they did change the scoring a bit each time. And this promotion has potential, depending on what options are on the wheel, but it's gotten off to a "find a bunch of caches" start...

Sure, never disagreed with that.

 

As for other points, what JL_HSTRE said.

[+JL_HSTRE]

9 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

Where did I say anything about kinds of caches I don't want?

 

99% of your posts on these forums boil down to "here's why the latest thing Groundspeak did will not encourage people to seek my hiking caches and is useless for me in cache-sparse Australia."

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by JL_HSTRE
Clarity

[+terratin]

On 3/21/2023 at 9:40 PM, barefootjeff said:

 

Is there anyone else feeling souvenir challenge burnout? A decade ago when I started in the game, there was one promotion a year that typically ran for a few weeks during the northern hemisphere summer. Then in 2018 there was Planetary Pursuit in March, Hidden Creatures in July and the You Might Be... ones during the remainder of that year. 2019 had Cache Carnival, Mystery at the Museum and Streak Week. Then in 2020 COVID hit and, in what seemed a sensible move at the time, the promotions became longer to allow for people going in and out of lockdown, with the almost endless Wonders series. Finally we ran out of Wonders, but almost immediately had six months of Reach the Peak and then a whole year of Signal's Labyrinth, which was the same as Reach the Peak (accumulating leaderboard points with a different points table each month) except with a different storyline.

 

Just when I was thinking it's nearly over, along comes the six-month Wheel of Challenges. Come on, HQ, COVID lockdowns are over so we don't need these extremely long promotions any more!

 I basically ignore them, and hide the souvenirs that might turn up. Simples.

[+MNTA]

21 hours ago, JL_HSTRE said:

Anyone actually addicted to geocaching I sincerely suggest they seek professional help. Some geocachers do have a diagnosable problem.

 

I'd classify myself as maybe obsessed with geocaching. When I'm with non-cachers I'll usually limit my activities to one or two specially if they are on the way. 

 

But when I have the time by myself. I've done some crazy things. To name a few:

- Drive an extra 120 miles out of the way to get the final county in my state

- three day road trip to Potter's Pond 1800+ miles

- I know my daughter is going to have to stop at a restroom. I'll bundle that with a cache find. "Just 5 more miles"

- Weekend adventures to the middle of nowhere with a bonus of a few caches along the way and at the destination.

- Plan out caches that help with challenges along road trips. I usually don't stop for many but get a couple. Gas and food stops.

- Day long power trail in Kern County CA outside of Bakersfield. Once started you just power through got 100+ that day but not enjoyable.

- 49 finds so far this week for this challenge. One day urban caching, yesterday country driving my favorite.

= While doing my year+ streak of finds, Out finding a LPC I had saved because I had a 103 fever from the flu. Also driving in an ice storm to keep it going. Ok this one was a bit much.

Edited April 9, 2023 by MNTA

[+Hidden Legends]

In other Words... Huh, just two sundays with a 50 streak powertrail... No problem...

But why i haven't made just one month with 100 caches found in about ten years so far... 😂

I think, i will Not have all souvenirs this time.

[+Harry Dolphin]

1 hour ago, Hidden Legends said:

In other Words... Huh, just two sundays with a 50 streak powertrail... No problem...

But why i haven't made just one month with 100 caches found in about ten years so far... 😂

I think, i will Not have all souvenirs this time.

 

Having found over 10,000 caches in the last 18 years, I've pretty well cleaned out my local area.  I'm not even contemplating 100 caches this month (or four week period...)

[+fizzymagic]

On 4/7/2023 at 5:05 PM, barefootjeff said:

 

New caches like the one on the right are becoming increasingly rare and I suspect that in ten years time, or maybe even five, there won't be any more like it. They're only a memory and an experience if someone takes the time and makes the effort to find them, and with more and more of them going years between finds, there's little incentive now for COs to place them. What's being promoted in all the promotions since Planetary Pursuit in 2018 is caches like the one on the left.

 

We get it.   You are morally superior to those "other" cachers.  You seek out difficult-to-reach caches and that makes you better.   Happy?

[+Vicious Cycle]

On 3/28/2023 at 10:29 AM, Max and 99 said:

From HQ:

If you are a Premium member, keep track of your progress toward earning souvenirs by following your statistics on Geocaching.com where you can see how many geocaches you find this month. 

The problem is the statistics track the total caches found in April. This challenge didn't start on April 1st. It started on the 3rd. So I can't track my progress towards getting the 100 finds because I'm not sure how many caches I found on the 1st and 2nd. Is there some other way to track how many finds I have that count towards the present challenge? During the Signal's Labyrinth challenge, you could see your progress in the points you had accumulated. Not so with Wheel of Challenges. How is everyone keeping track of their progress? 

Edited April 12, 2023 by Vicious Cycle

[+MNTA]

33 minutes ago, Vicious Cycle said:

The problem is the statistics track the total caches found in April. This challenge didn't start on April 1st. It started on the 3rd. So I can't track my progress towards getting the 100 finds because I'm not sure how many caches I found on the 1st thru the 3rd. Is there some other way to track how many finds I have that count towards the present challenge? During the Signal's Labyrinth challenge, you could see your progress in the points you had accumulated. Not so with Wheel of Challenges. How is everyone keeping track of their progress? 

Thanks for the suggestion. Fortunately I had no finds on the 1st and 2nd. So the statistics work for me. I was keeping track on a note previously. I suppose you could review your found logs for the 1st and 2nd then subtract from statistics.

 

From the blog:

This challenge is all about seeing how many caches and Adventure Lab® Locations you can find in a month

 

Easier to get the Adv Labs picked up 4 today in 10 minutes with a short walk around a block on one. 

[+Vicious Cycle]

19 minutes ago, MNTA said:

Thanks for the suggestion. Fortunately I had no finds on the 1st and 2nd. So the statistics work for me. I was keeping track on a note previously. I suppose you could review your found logs for the 1st and 2nd then subtract from statistics.

If I had known there wouldn't be any mechanism for automagically tracking your progress, I  would have been manually tracking my finds too. But I didn't notice that I was flying blind until I was somewhere between 5 and 10 finds and I wanted to know how many more I needed to get the next souvenir and I couldn't find that number. Maybe this lack of information is by design, with the intent to keep poor saps like me in the dark so we just keep spinning our wheels until we happen to see that that the souvenir has showed up in our profile.

[+MartyBartfast]

28 minutes ago, HHL said:

Do a simple count (100-17):

That won't show you Lab cache finds, so is sub obtimal.

Using GSAK is OK for those of us who do use it and are also importing Labs into it (many don't), but most cachers don't use it and I suspect won't want to get into installing it just for this.

It's pretty poor of GS to have introduced this challenge with no mechanism for tracking progress, which every other challenge has done pretty well in recent years.

[+HHL]

4 hours ago, MartyBartfast said:

It's pretty poor of GS to have introduced this challenge with no mechanism for tracking progress, which every other challenge has done pretty well in recent years.

+1

[+HHL]

I deleted my previous post as it seems that ranting is way more popular than using a workaround.

[+MNTA]

6 hours ago, HHL said:

I deleted my previous post as it seems that ranting is way more popular than using a workaround.

I'm all about the work around. Getting closer to qualifying.

 

 

HHL like your spy vs spy. Sad to hear about the mad magazines artist passing the other day.

[+bulcacher]

Is there a counter somewhere to keep track of your stats? It doesn’t really matter, but I was curious. Keeping tracks of money they finds isn’t that difficult, but keeping track of Adventure logs kind of is for me. 

[+Max and 99]

41 minutes ago, bulcacher said:

Is there a counter somewhere to keep track of your stats? It doesn’t really matter, but I was curious. Keeping tracks of money they finds isn’t that difficult, but keeping track of Adventure logs kind of is for me. 

No.

[+Hügh]

1 hour ago, bulcacher said:

Is there a counter somewhere to keep track of your stats? It doesn’t really matter, but I was curious. Keeping tracks of money they finds isn’t that difficult, but keeping track of Adventure logs kind of is for me. 

Well, nothing official. But if you don’t mind that data is a couple days stale, you can use:

 

https://project-gc.com/Challenges//76697

 

(yes this includes Adventure Lab finds.)

[+HHL]

9 hours ago, Hügh said:

 

https://project-gc.com/Challenges//76697

 

(yes this includes Adventure Lab finds.)

There seems to be a pretty big privacy issue with this script. It shows by you completed lab stations, even if you had decided not been logging and rating the adventure in the app. Not nice from my point of view. This script should be removed asap from GC-Project by request from HQ.

[+Hügh]

1 hour ago, HHL said:

There seems to be a pretty big privacy issue with this script. It shows by you completed lab stations, even if you had decided not been logging and rating the adventure in the app. Not nice from my point of view. This script should be removed asap from GC-Project by request from HQ.

 

Project-GC Challenge checkers have had the ability to fetch Lab cache completion data since ~January 2020, and that feature was developed with the support of Geocaching HQ.

[+HHL]

39 minutes ago, Hügh said:

and that feature was developed with the support of Geocaching HQ.

Then someone in HQ just didn't think it through to the end.

[+MartyBartfast]

3 hours ago, HHL said:

There seems to be a pretty big privacy issue with this script. It shows by you completed lab stations, even if you had decided not been logging and rating the adventure in the app. Not nice from my point of view. This script should be removed asap from GC-Project by request from HQ.

 I don't really understand why this is a privacy issue, any more than reporting on regular geocache finds, is there something I'm not seeing?

[+baer2006]

32 minutes ago, MartyBartfast said:

I don't really understand why this is a privacy issue, any more than reporting on regular geocache finds, is there something I'm not seeing?

Large-scale Lab cache cheating is easily exposed .

[+Vicious Cycle]

On 4/13/2023 at 4:52 PM, Hügh said:

Well, nothing official. But if you don’t mind that data is a couple days stale, you can use:

 

https://project-gc.com/Challenges//76697

 

(yes this includes Adventure Lab finds.)

Found an AL with 5 stages and 3 other traditionals tonight and all 8 were picked up by this script by the time I got home.

This link has been bookmarked. THANKS!

Edited April 15, 2023 by Vicious Cycle

[+Vicious Cycle]

16 hours ago, baer2006 said:

Large-scale Lab cache cheating is easily exposed .

I just listened to the Podcacher podcast that mentioned this large-scale lab cache cheating. I'll never trust anyone's find count again. Not that there was no cheating before Adventure Labs...but a 62 mile geofence? That's ridiculous.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Vicious Cycle

[+A J Pombo]

22 hours ago, HHL said:

There seems to be a pretty big privacy issue with this script. It shows by you completed lab stations, even if you had decided not been logging and rating the adventure in the app. Not nice from my point of view. This script should be removed asap from GC-Project by request from HQ.

This privacy issue can be solved using this option: https://www.geocaching.com/account/settings/authorizations - check box "Do not share my personal information with Authorized Developer applications."

Pros: project-gc and other outside statistic sites can't download, from geocacching.com api, information about your logs

Cons: you can't use the Poquet Query function; you can't update your offline GSAK database 

[+Max and 99]

10 minutes ago, A J Pombo said:

Cons: you can't use the Poquet Query function;

Are you referring to a regular pocket query on the geocaching website? If that's the case then yes, you can use this function even if you do not give API permission. 

[+HHL]

1 hour ago, A J Pombo said:

This privacy issue can be solved using this option:

I'm aware of this option. But it's not an option for me due to the cons with the third party app used by me (ie: GSAK).

My solution: I'd revoked GC-Project's access here: https://www.geocaching.com/account/settings/authorizations

Edited April 15, 2023 by HHL

[+A J Pombo]

30 minutes ago, HHL said:

My solution: I'd revoked GC-Project's access here: https://www.geocaching.com/account/settings/authorizations

This is your access to project-gc web page ... not the access from project-gc to geocaching.com api to download your log information 

[+MartyBartfast]

 

21 hours ago, baer2006 said:

Large-scale Lab cache cheating is easily exposed .

 

4 hours ago, Vicious Cycle said:

I just listened to the Podcacher podcast that mentioned this large-scale lab cache cheating. I'll never trust anyone's find count again. Not that there was no cheating before Adventure Labs...but a 62 mile geofence? That's ridiculous.

 

 

I haven't listened to the podcast before so went and sought this episode out, and it was interesting. I was aware that there were areas with a very high number of labs but didn't really know why they had been placed.

As with the debate on the show, if the game allows hundreds of labs to be placed in a small area, with large geofences and easy questions then I don't see it as cheating if someone goes and finds them, if anything it's a failure of the system/game. TBH it just feeds my existing dislike of Labs, and my feeling that they should be run as a completely different game and not at all integrated into mainstream Geocaching in any way.

 

 

[+HHL]

42 minutes ago, A J Pombo said:

This is your access to project-gc web page ... not the access from project-gc to geocaching.com api to download your log information 

You missed the header:

Quote

These are the web and mobile apps you've authorized to access and update your Geocaching profile.

 

[+MartyBartfast]

12 minutes ago, HHL said:

You missed the header:

Quote

These are the web and mobile apps you've authorized to access and update your Geocaching profile.

 

 

 

I'm not sure that does what you think it will do. For example neither my wife nor children have ever used or authorized Project-GC but I can still look up their stats on Project-GC.

I also just ran the checker above against your account  and it shows your recent qualifying finds, and looked at your profile stats in Project-GC with no trouble.

I believe Project-GC gathers all stats for everyone via a bulk method/authorization, and the action of refusing sharing with 3rd parties excludes accounts from that method. It wouldn't make sense for them to gather the stats for hundreds of thousands of cachers using their own individual authorizations.
I think the authorization you have denied is what's used when you're logged into Project-GC.

[+JL_HSTRE]

11 hours ago, MartyBartfast said:

As with the debate on the show, if the game allows hundreds of labs to be placed in a small area, with large geofences and easy questions then I don't see it as cheating if someone goes and finds them, if anything it's a failure of the system/game.

 

Groundspeak was made aware of the issue months ago. They respond to people reporting ALs, but I have yet to see any indication they've taken any steps to fix the overall problem.

 

The easiest fix is to restrict the geofencing distance. In an area without sky cover even the minimum setting is too wide and sometimes makes it hard to find the intended location. Even allowing 1 mile geofencing seems absurd. If your accuracy is that bad don't place an AL there.

[+lee737]

On 4/14/2023 at 8:52 AM, Hügh said:

Well, nothing official. But if you don’t mind that data is a couple days stale, you can use:

 

https://project-gc.com/Challenges//76697

 

(yes this includes Adventure Lab finds.)

This is great - now why can't/won't Groundspeak incorporate lab locations in our find history?  Clearly it is won't rather than can't....

[Keystone]

Let's get back to discussing the Wheel of Challenges promotion.  Issues about Adventures can be discussed in the dedicated forum section for that activity.  Thanks.

[+DacheForTheCache]

Here's our prediction for the Wheel of Challenges:

😊 = was obviously smileys
? = mysteries 
♡ = fav pts
3 circles = multis 
Car = AL
☆ = D/T
2 heads = friends (event caches)

Let's see how close we are

[+Bonnie_ft_Clyde]

17 hours ago, DacheForTheCache said:

♡ = fav pts

 

Following your hypothesis, the logical challenge would be to find caches with lots of fav points.

I hope it won't be that, as it would not motivate people to put new caches.

[+Smitherington]

Whew!  I finally got the third souvenir. This all started as I was driving (caching, adding counties, finding webcams, etc) as I traveled from winter quarters in Florida to summer quarters in Michigan. It was easy to get the first two souvenirs.  I did not plan on going for the third but a totals check made it look possible because of MOGA Cars Coneys Caches mega event just down the road (GC9RXK9) with a power trail and new adventure labs. Whoopee!

 

Now to wait for the next spin of the wheel.

 

[+thebruce0]

Keep in mind, unless it's a live announcement and wheel spin, they could record the wheel spins until it lands on the next intended icon, matching the preplanned 6 months of souvenir challenges 

[+Gill & Tony]

This has made me not to want to cache in April.  I have no chance of getting 100 caches this month and I don't want a souvenir for not completing the challenge, so I'll sit this one out.

[+Max and 99]

2 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

Keep in mind, unless it's a live announcement and wheel spin, they could record the wheel spins until it lands on the next intended icon, matching the preplanned 6 months of souvenir challenges 

I assumed that's how they did it! 😁

[+baer2006]

12 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

I assumed that's how they did it! 😁

Same here .

 

And even if the first spin of the wheel was actually random, I would definitely bet that only unused symbols are eligible for the next spin. So in the end each type of challenge gets selected exactly once.

[+K13]

15 hours ago, Gill & Tony said:

This has made me not to want to cache in April.  I have no chance of getting 100 caches this month and I don't want a souvenir for not completing the challenge, so I'll sit this one out.

There are three levels to the challenge with a souvenir for making 5 finds, one for making 10 finds, and a third souvenir for 100 finds. It could be viewed as three different challenges.

[+lee737]

We all complain when they are too easy, and when they are too hard.... Nobody seems to like 'every-child-gets-a-prize' type promos, but everyone still wants a prize!

[+Lowin]

I was conscious when this first months challenge was announced, that due to family commitments & our weather, that 100 would be a push. I could have done it, just. However, I've stopped at the silver level. Why? We don't yet know what the other challenges will be. I don't want to clear any remaining nearby caches, in case there is a streak challenge, they would be useful for that. I did a multi yesterday, and wondered on the wisdom of doing that, what if multis are needed for a challenge? even further to travel to get those now!

For planning purposes over the further 5 months, I'd prefer to know the details of each challenge, even if the months aren't know