Release Notes (Website: Solved coordinates and Update Coordinates) - October 19, 2020

[+Geocaching HQ]

Release Notes (Website: Solved coordinates and Update Coordinates) - October 19, 2020

 

With today’s release, we have implemented two changes on cache pages to resolve confusion around where to enter solved coordinates (primarily a player feature) versus update coordinates (cache owner feature).

 

We hope this reduces issues with coordinates being incorrectly updated by cache hiders. Based on the 2018 cache quality survey, accurate coordinates significantly contribute to a positive cache experience.

 

We updated the modal to enter solved coordinates with clearer labels, icons, and help text.

 

Solved coordinates:

Before

 

 

After

 

 

Update Coordinates:
Cache owners can now access the Update Coordinate log directly via the Admin Tools section on their cache page. It remains available via the new logging flow and the Edit Page.

 

Before

 

After

 

Sven (Bl4ckH4wkGER), Community Volunteer Support Lead, is watching this thread to answer questions whenever possible.

 

Any posts in this thread should relate to features in this release. Comments unrelated to the release may be removed. Please direct unrelated comments to other appropriate threads. Thanks!

[+Viajero Perdido]

Excellent.

 

Um, "If you're the cache owner..." could be changed to something like "Since you're the cache owner...", and made more prominent, but left blank if not applicable.

[+thebruce0]

As in, if you are the owner of the listing being viewed, the wording could be "Since you are the cache owner, if you want to update..."

Agreed

 

If not the cache owner, perhaps something like "Cache owners who wish to update their cache coordinates, should use..." - if anything.
Leaving it blank is functionally relevant, while having the text is informative for those who don't know - but then becomes redundant and takes up space once you do know.

Edited October 19, 2020 by thebruce0

[+CAVinoGal]

2 hours ago, Viajero Perdido said:

 

Um, "If you're the cache owner..." could be changed to something like "Since you're the cache owner...", and made more prominent, but left blank if not applicable.

Actually, I think it is fine as it is - since this is where many cache owners seem to go when they want to update the coordinates for their cache.  This makes it clear that IF you are the cache owner and are trying to update coordinates....there's a different place you need to be.  Adding the ability to update the coordinates on the admn menu is a +1 for me!

[+Viajero Perdido]

Yeah, either way it's a win.  I've seen even experienced COs get tripped up by this because it was not obvious before.

[+barefootjeff]

This is good to see and most welcome, but I wonder what the use case is for even allowing COs to set Solved Coordinates on their own caches? On the face of it, I think it's better if COs always see their cache pages exactly as everyone else does.

[+Max and 99]

14 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

This is good to see and most welcome, but I wonder what the use case is for even allowing COs to set Solved Coordinates on their own caches? On the face of it, I think it's better if COs always see their cache pages exactly as everyone else does.

I use solved coordinates on my puzzle caches so I can find them quicker on the map. I know the location of all my final caches but very rarely do I remember where the fake/ posted coordinates are. 

[+Lynx Humble]

Yeah FINALLY

 

I just wonder why it took so many years to do that super hyper easy change.

[+terratin]

Ah, I had problems with this yesterday. I clicked on it and it seemed that an invisible layer was over the pen after I used the personal cache notes: not clickable anymore unless I refreshed the page. Makes me wonder if there’s a connection.

[+Gill & Tony]

Why do you even offer the cache owner the ability to correct coordinates?  Why would a cache owner want to correct the coordinates?

 

Cache owners update coordinates.  Other players correct coordinates.

[+MartyBartfast]

10 minutes ago, Gill & Tony said:

Why would a cache owner want to correct the coordinates?

I do it so I can see them on he map in their real location, useful for planning etc.

[Blue Square Thing]

Yes, me to. It helps that the option is available.

 

A while back I asked (and got an answer) how to update the final coordinates on a puzzle or multi cache. I wonder if ti's possible to include that on the text for cache owners if they're updating the coordinates?

 

Something like: "This will change the published coordinates. If you want to..." - if it were possible to do this conditionally based on the cache type?

[+Pontiac_CZ]

It is updated as stated but.... why am I allowed to enter solved coordinates for MY OWN caches? I do not need to solve them. And I already have final waypoints on my multi and mystery cache pages as required by the guidelines. The only thing missing is to allow displaying my hidden final wps on the small map.

.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Pontiac_CZ

[Keystone]

When Geocaching HQ tried to fix the corrected coordinates issue three years ago, there was such an outcry from cache owners about having access to the "pencil" that the change was reverted.

 

See this forum thread.  Ever since, there's been confusion.  The current release attempts to reduce that confusion.

[+TriciaG]

Bravo!!

(We need an applause smiley!)

[+Lynx Humble]

7 hours ago, Keystone said:

When Geocaching HQ tried to fix the corrected coordinates issue three years ago, there was such an outcry from cache owners about having access to the "pencil" that the change was reverted.

 

See this forum thread.  Ever since, there's been confusion.  The current release attempts to reduce that confusion.

If they would have removed the pencil only for the traditional like suggested in that thread it wouldn't have taken an extra 3 yrs to fix it... 

[+BarnabysTravels]

Very good idea, I've come across a cache recently where the owner claimed to have updated incorrect co-ordinates, but they hadn't been changed. This could explain why and these changes would prevent confusion for inexperienced cache owners.

[+G0ldNugget]

Very appreciated change to coord updates. I made this mistake myself when I was a new CO and recently walked a new CO through the process via the Message Center. The new process is much clearer and less prone to mistakes. Thanks for that. As for the new List feature, I'm looking forward to trying it.

[+PeoriaBill]

Excellent change.  I had to move one of mine due to a new veterans monument and this would have made it much easier.  CO's don't change coords too often, but when they do, this will make it simpler. PeoriaBill :>)

[+Arne1]

I don't see practical sense in that. It even bothers me a lot. There are many other features of the site that have been waiting for a long time to fix.

[+IceColdUK]

22 hours ago, Pontiac_CZ said:

It is updated as stated but.... why am I allowed to enter solved coordinates for MY OWN caches? I do not need to solve them. And I already have final waypoints on my multi and mystery cache pages as required by the guidelines. The only thing missing is to allow displaying my hidden final wps on the small map.

.

I have quite a number of mystery caches.  Their posted coords are of very little use to me - some may provide a clue to the puzzle, some are a good spot to park a car, and a few have been arranged into a bit of a pattern.  Seeing their actual positions on the main map is far more useful.  It helps me find them more quickly during maintenance runs, and can be useful when I’m scouting locations for future caches.

Edited October 21, 2020 by IceColdUK

[+Pontiac_CZ]

IceColdUK: I agree with the need to see the real positions of owned mystery/multi (etc.) caches on the map. The only question is why developers did not use the final waypoint coordinates for this.

 

When you need to move your cache, you update the coordinates twice, right? In the final WP and in the corrected coordinates...

[+arisoft]

1 minute ago, Pontiac_CZ said:

The only question is why developers did not use the final waypoint coordinates for this.

 

It took years to change "corrected coordinates" to "solved coordinates". I think it would take far too long to implement a more complex solution.

[+IceColdUK]

34 minutes ago, arisoft said:

44 minutes ago, Pontiac_CZ said:

The only question is why developers did not use the final waypoint coordinates for this.

 

It took years to change "corrected coordinates" to "solved coordinates". I think it would take far too long to implement a more complex solution.

Yep, overlaying final (and other physical?) waypoints would be a better solution, but I’ll not be holding my breath.

[+@rthur]

Great fix !

[+The A-Team]

What actually changed here?

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for changes that attempt to fix issues, and this is something that was definitely an issue.

 

But in what ways will this change resolve the issue?

 

The issue was always that some cache owners clicked the edit pencil and then didn't read what was written in the modal. In order for them to learn that this isn't what they should be doing, they were being expected to voluntarily read the content of the modal. They weren't doing this, and thus the issue resulted.

 

With this new version of the modal, while the content has changed, the expectation on the user remains the same. If the user is clicking the edit pencil because they want to update the coordinates for everyone, they're presented with a bunch of text and a box that fulfills their need (see: confirmation bias). Sure, the new text may catch the eye of some users, but the same underlying deficiency in the modal remains. If the user chooses not to read this new text (remember, they weren't reading the old text either), then they'll just make the same mistake as they would have before.

 

A little over a month ago, I posted here in the forums suggesting a fix that would force the user to make a conscious choice between two provided options before they'd be able to change any coordinates, thus eliminating the potential for the user to skip reading things and run into the issue. My suggestion appears to have been well-received by my fellow members, but I guess HQ didn't have the same opinion.

 

Hopefully I'll be proven wrong and this change will ultimately solve all of the confusion, but I don't think that will be the case. My bet is that this is just kicking the can down the road.

[+thebruce0]

On 10/21/2020 at 7:06 AM, IceColdUK said:

Yep, overlaying final (and other physical?) waypoints would be a better solution, but I’ll not be holding my breath.

 

I for one would love an option to include display of additional waypoints for any cache icon visible on the map. Yep, even if it looks like the map becomes oversaturated. Typically those waypoints (with valid locations) are informational - trailheads and parking. For zooming still prioritize cache locations, not additional waypoints (sometimes they may be dummy or 0,0 in the middle of the ocean), but having them visible on that map would be invaluable, as an option (realizing slower machines might chug if there are too many). It could even be affected by the max pins to show, if that's a factor. And if people want to distinguish which cache any waypoint is for and which others are related, it could be in a popup, or you just need to view the related cache to see only those relevant waypoints, as now.

Maybe this needs to be its own feature request

[Blue Square Thing]

4 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

 

I for one would love an option to include display of additional waypoints for any cache icon visible on the map. Yep, even if it looks like the map becomes oversaturated. Typically those waypoints (with valid locations) are informational - trailheads and parking. For zooming still prioritize cache locations, not additional waypoints (sometimes they may be dummy or 0,0 in the middle of the ocean), but having them visible on that map would be invaluable, as an option (realizing slower machines might chug if there are too many). It could even be affected by the max pins to show, if that's a factor. And if people want to distinguish which cache any waypoint is for and which others are related, it could be in a popup, or you just need to view the related cache to see only those relevant waypoints, as now.

Maybe this needs to be its own feature request

 

Didn't that used to be possible when you clicked the "view larger map" option above the thumbnail map? I think it might even have only displayed the information about that cache - I don't remember.

[+thebruce0]

5 hours ago, Blue Square Thing said:

Didn't that used to be possible when you clicked the "view larger map" option above the thumbnail map? I think it might even have only displayed the information about that cache - I don't remember.

 

AFAIR it's only been on the thumbnail map on the listing, never on the browse map. Definitely not on the Search map. But I mean an option to actually show all public waypoints for visible caches plotted on the map.  If you're browsing around that count be a HUGE help as well because you'd see all the parking and trailhead waypoints COs have added for their caches, which makes an enormous difference in planning caching outings.

[Blue Square Thing]

6 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

 

AFAIR it's only been on the thumbnail map on the listing, never on the browse map. Definitely not on the Search map. But I mean an option to actually show all public waypoints for visible caches plotted on the map.  If you're browsing around that count be a HUGE help as well because you'd see all the parking and trailhead waypoints COs have added for their caches, which makes an enormous difference in planning caching outings.

 

I thought it opened a larger map, but with just the waypoints for the cache on it? But I may be misremembering. I'd settle for that as an option first - especially for longer multis and so on.

[+barefootjeff]

On 10/20/2020 at 7:17 AM, Geocaching HQ said:

Update Coordinates:
Cache owners can now access the Update Coordinate log directly via the Admin Tools section on their cache page. It remains available via the new logging flow and the Edit Page.

 

This doesn't work any more. Clicking on Update Coordinates in the Admin Tools box now generates an Owner Maintenance log, not an Update Coordinates log.

[Keystone]

2 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

 

Clicking on Update Coordinates in the Admin Tools box now generates an Owner Maintenance log, not an Update Coordinates log.

 

Thank you for reporting this!  Geocaching HQ's engineers are aware of this bug.  It may be a byproduct of the recent fix to prevent DNF logs from morphing into "found it" logs.