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BlueEagle23

Mystery caches can no longer be at posted coordinates?

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The local reviewer is not allowing a Mystery cache to be published because the "final" coordinates are the posted coordinates, and he is requiring it to be listed as a Traditional cache. In this particular instance, the cache container is a puzzle box that requires solving how to open. This is not a simple, traditional cache. Anybody else have experience dealing with this issue?

Emphasis added:
"For **most** Mystery caches, the posted coordinates are not the actual cache location."
https://www.geocaching.com/play/guidelines#physicalcaches

"The posted coordinates are **usually** bogus coordinates."
https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter...

"A Traditional Cache is the simplest form of a geocache. It consists of a container with a logbook, and is located at the posted coordinates."
https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter...

If this cache is listed as a traditional, it will confuse "newbies" and most likely end up broken as well as receive DNFs saying unable to open.

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I believe the reviewer is correct. It is a Traditional cache with a Field Puzzle which would attract the Field Puzzle attribute.

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I have seen a mystery cache where after solving the puzzle and getting coordinates they are the same as the listed coordinates. I was about to say in which country, but there are so few caches in that country, people might guess which cache.

 

I would call a cache which needs something solved to get into it a field puzzle. Therefore a puzzle. I would be annoyed to turn up to do a traditional cache to find a puzzle. I could be on the way somewhere for instance. I might have time to grab a traditional cache, but not sit down and work out the puzzle.

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Definitely a little bit strange.

 

I guess it's up to you to argue your case with the reviewer, and if not satisfied, go to appeals.

 

But IMO, it could be a mystery, or it could be a trad, and in both cases I would add the Field Puzzle attribute.

 

I certainly know of caches that fit this description that are mystery caches with the field puzzle attribute.

 

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1 minute ago, Goldenwattle said:

I would call a cache which needs something solved to get into it a field puzzle. Therefore a puzzle. I would be annoyed to turn up to do a traditional cache to find a puzzle. I could be on the way somewhere for instance. I might have time to grab a traditional cache, but not sit down and work out the puzzle.

(My bolding)

This is why I have had a dilemma in the past about exactly this - and settled on mystery as the type.

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10 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

I have seen a mystery cache where after solving the puzzle and getting coordinates they are the same as the listed coordinates. I was about to say in which country, but there are so few caches in that country, people might guess which cache.

 

I would call a cache which needs something solved to get into it a field puzzle. Therefore a puzzle. I would be annoyed to turn up to do a traditional cache to find a puzzle. I could be on the way somewhere for instance. I might have time to grab a traditional cache, but not sit down and work out the puzzle.

If solving a puzzle at the coordinates is required it is not a mystery. I have one which requires solving a puzzle to get coordinates which is not GZ but at a WP (one only). It's a Multi, not a Mystery but same principle.

Edited to add. The cache description states there is a puzzle to be solved and it has the Field Puzzle attribute.

Almost all Mysteries I've seen are ones where you solve a puzzle before going out to look for it.

Edited by colleda

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6 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

I would be annoyed to turn up to do a traditional cache to find a puzzle.

This is why I don't think such caches should be listed as traditional caches, even if they are at the posted coordinates.

 

If your volunteer reviewer won't budge, then either appeal to Groundspeak, or add a trivial puzzle to get the final coordinates to justify the use of the mystery/puzzle type to your volunteer reviewer.

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12 minutes ago, BlueEagle23 said:

The local reviewer is not allowing a Mystery cache to be published because the "final" coordinates are the posted coordinates, and he is requiring it to be listed as a Traditional cache. In this particular instance, the cache container is a puzzle box that requires solving how to open. This is not a simple, traditional cache. Anybody else have experience dealing with this issue?

 

I’ve seen them listed either way.  A couple of mine are puzzles and at the listed coords, just not puzzle boxes.  Anyway, if the sticking point was that it was not a Traditional, I was prepared to add a Field Puzzle attribute.

 

But I haven’t submitted one today, so I don’t know what might have changed.

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Make a very, very simple puzzle that must be solved before getting the the field puzzle, and which gives new coordinates. That should solve the problem. Rediculous one would have to do this, but this is likely a work around.

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46 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

I have seen a mystery cache where after solving the puzzle and getting coordinates they are the same as the listed coordinates. I was about to say in which country, but there are so few caches in that country, people might guess which cache.

I spent several months working on a puzzle that ended up being at the posted coordinates. It was a good surprise!

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I hope your reviewer's wrong. That would be a big and seemingly pointless change. And I'd hope they'd announce it instead of just suddenly enforcing it out of the blue.

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Both alternatives (traditional with field puzzle attribute, or mystery at posted coords with field puzzle attribute) are acceptable under the Geocache Hiding Guidelines.  An individual reviewer may advocate for one or the other to conform to local custom.

 

As the OP does not have any cache submissions pending, I cannot evaluate the details of any conversation with the local reviewer.  For example, when I review caches like this, I will point out the tradeoff between traditional caches getting more "hits" than mystery caches, vs. the potential for cacher frustration if they cannot solve the field puzzle needed in order to log the traditional.  The easier the field puzzle, the more I push towards the traditional option.

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I know of one (cough!) that needed to be a mystery, and at (more or less) the posted coordinates.

 

The system wouldn't allow it to registered at the posted coordinates, but 0.000 and 0.001 away worked perfectly fine.

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In my mind it depends on how its presented. If you explicitly say "go to the posted coordinates and solve the field puzzle to log" then I would make it traditional. You have to be very clear in the cache description about the fact that it may require some time to solve.

 

A mystery field puzzle may mean that you need to look for clues at the bogus (or other coordinates) to find the cache (reflectors etc.) but I find it also used for puzzle boxes at the posted coordinates.  In this case you can be more vague about what you will find there at the bogus coordinates.

 

In this case the reviewer seems to think its just a hard to open traditional. I would accept that view. If you want to make it a mystery for some reason just do as suggested above, make a projection or something to get from bogus to the final, hidden coordinates.

 

Now that I think about it, it would be sensible to always list the puzzle boxes at the posted coordinates as traditional (or letterbox when appropriate). After all, where do you draw the line? A simple jar can be a puzzle for some people.

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Around here where I live it's a common thing to have field puzzle caches listed as traditionals. It always have been. I can't even think of a field puzzle cache, wich is posted at the given coordinates and listed as a mystery.

I remember only one mystery cache far up in the north of Germany, where the final location was at the listed coordinates. But that was the nature of this cache and I found it funny. There was a sign post full of numbers and I had to fill in a big formula. The result was the listing coordinates and after half an hour of math, I found the cache in the top of the sign post. 

Would have been pointless to have this listed as a traditional.

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Add the word Challenge to the cache name.

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7 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

I have seen a mystery cache where after solving the puzzle and getting coordinates they are the same as the listed coordinates. I was about to say in which country, but there are so few caches in that country, people might guess which cache.

I've seen the same a couple of times in the UK (so not giving much away), I've also done multis that take you on a fairly lenghty walk, only to take you back to the start where the cache is hidden.

 

Re the OP: I think the reviewer is right, in this case it sounds like a trad with a field puzzle attribute. If you want it to be a blue ? icon then give it a final waypoint with hidden co-ords (which are the same as the posted co-ords) but then a puzzle on the page to work out what those co-ords are.

 

 

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7 hours ago, BlueEagle23 said:

Anybody else have experience dealing with this issue?

 

I have one mystery cache placed into posted coordinates. It is not a field puzzle. The reviewer only checked that I did not forget to enter the correct final waypoint. :)

 

Originally the mystery cache type a.k.a unknown cache type was meant to be used for anything.

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7 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

I was about to say in which country, but there are so few caches in that country, people might guess which cache.

 

6 minutes ago, MartyBartfast said:

I've seen the same a couple of times in the UK (so not giving much away)

Off Topic: Why is it that you guys don´t want to give away what caches you are talking about? I´m just curious.

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37 minutes ago, DerDiedler said:

 

Off Topic: Why is it that you guys don´t want to give away what caches you are talking about? I´m just curious. 

Because perhaps the CO might want people to work out their puzzle. If I said the given coordinates are the same as the final coordinates and gave the cache, I have given you the coordinates to the puzzle cache. Some COs could get upset with this; although likely most COs would never know.

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9 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

Because perhaps the CO might want people to work out their puzzle. If I said the given coordinates are the same as the final coordinates and gave the cache, I have given you the coordinates to the puzzle cache. Some COs could get upset with this; although likely most COs would never know.

ahhh, of course, that makes sense :)

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9 hours ago, BlueEagle23 said:

The local reviewer is not allowing a Mystery cache to be published because the "final" coordinates are the posted coordinates, and he is requiring it to be listed as a Traditional cache. In this particular instance, the cache container is a puzzle box that requires solving how to open. This is not a simple, traditional cache.

 

My humble opinion:

 

1) If you hide the cache at the coordinates but don't tell to the finders and they have to find out about this fact (even if it is just putting the pseudo coordinates in the checker) it is a mystery cache (whatever you have to do when you reach the cache).

2) If you tell them that it is hidden there but you have to visit nearby anything to get numbers for a number key lock (is that the right word?) then it is a multi cache.

3) If you tell them that it is hidden there but you have to open any mechanism without leaving the cache behind (compare #2) it is a traditional with field puzzle.

 

In any case you should provide the correct difficulty rating. Many say here they were angry finding a traditional cache with another task but if it is difficulty 4 and the listing tells about the trick lock (or what else) I see no problem here - do they want the high difficulty without the work? ;-)

 

I once found a traditional cache of the type 2 - and I think that was wrong as you had to walk to different (nearby) stages to collect the numbers of the lock.

But I have found several (high difficulty) traditional caches with trick locks - and I think that was right.

 

But again that is all my subjective feeling. The easiest part for you would then be not telling about the correct coordinates!? But I don't know if the reviewer would like that. ;-)

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11 hours ago, BlueEagle23 said:

The local reviewer is not allowing a Mystery cache to be published because the "final" coordinates are the posted coordinates, and he is requiring it to be listed as a Traditional cache. In this particular instance, the cache container is a puzzle box that requires solving how to open. This is not a simple, traditional cache. Anybody else have experience dealing with this issue?
<snip>

Yes, I did have such an experience (though it wasn't a "refusal", but a recommendation - that I followed).  Very much like yours, it required figuring out a lock (in this case, a word lock with the answer "hidden in plain sight" in the description ).  I didn't take issue with it, though, when the reviewer suggested making it a Traditional with Field Puzzle.  I wasn't married to the idea of it being a Mystery cache, though - are you? There are other - possibly equally protective - ways to list the cache.

 

11 hours ago, BlueEagle23 said:

<snipped to final comment>
If this cache is listed as a traditional, it will confuse "newbies" and most likely end up broken as well as receive DNFs saying unable to open.

 

Nevertheless, it sounds like your proposed cache is, indeed, a Traditional with Field Puzzle. 

Consider this:  An Earthcache is still an Earthcache, whether you simply have to post a photo or send in a 5-page dissertation. I agree that solving a puzzle box is quite a bit more difficult to retrieve the cache/log than a simple Traditional, find-it-log-it, cache.  That's where the D/T rating, Cache Description and Attributes become so important. You'd be completely justified in increasing the Difficulty rating; in fact, it should have a higher difficulty rating.  This would keep it from showing up for "newbies" in the app.  As others have mentioned: Unless you're intending that puzzle to be a surprise, it would also help to protect it from destruction to mention the need to solve a puzzle upon arrival ... or at the very least, draw attention to the Attributes.

 

FWIW:  High find count does not always equal common sense - especially with field puzzles. (I've actually had to add instructions on how to properly return a very straight-forward  combination lock to its locked state.)  Keeping it from being found by "newbies" might reduce the odds simply by reducing visit counts, but that certainly doesn't guarantee protection from destruction by clueless cachers more intent on gaining a Smiley than solving a puzzle.

 

 

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It can't be the case that there is a rule that posted coordinates = final coordinates implies Traditional cache.  That rule would prevent Challenge caches from being at their posted coordinates, which most are, except perhaps those used in geo-art.  K13 made this point above.

 

It can be the case that "if the cache container  could be replaced with a simple peanut butter jar and that would definitely be a trad, then the original is a trad" is a rule, but I don't think there's anything spelled out like that.  It sounds as though that is the custom in some areas (perhaps even the CO's), but if the CO is being non-customary, that would make it non-traditional, no?

 

In my mind, anything that makes the cache/cache container non-obvious as to how to open it should have the right to be called non-traditional (specifically unknown) left to the CO.

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As Keystone said, either is allowable under guidelines, so saying "it should be this or that" will be pointless opinion arguing.

As he also said, regional customs would play into the reviewer's judgment.

I've seen plenty of both methods of listing a cache at coordinates with a field puzzle.  It really depends on the local landscape.

 

If the cache type doesn't matter that much, just list it as the reviewer requires.  If the cache type does matter to you, then do what's necessary to list it as the type you want (in this case, as others suggest, make a simple offset puzzle to solve first) -- but make sure the Field Puzzle is set whether it's a Traditional or a Mystery!

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Hmmm.

On the one hand, if I got to a Trad and there was a puzzle to solve, I might be annoyed.

On the other hand, If I got to a Trad that had a "Field Puzzle" attribute and I didn't note that (as I think most people ignore them these days), then I'd chalk it up to me being a dope and my own fault.

On the other hand, I think I write very creative Cache Descriptions, and people tell me they don't even look at them; they work ONLY from the map. For these people I have no sympathy.

 

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27 minutes ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

On the other hand, I think I write very creative Cache Descriptions, and people tell me they don't even look at them; they work ONLY from the map. For these people I have no sympathy.

And then they smash open your puzzle cache in frustration...

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14 minutes ago, niraD said:

And then they smash open your puzzle cache in frustration...

And that's why field puzzle caches must be built sturdy

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38 minutes ago, niraD said:

And then they smash open your puzzle cache in frustration...

Yes, and note that we don't have to assume carelessness. Not being prepared for a puzzle, they might think it's just a fancy container and the "lid" is just stuck shut, so they calmly and with no malfeasance, force it open.

 

I thought the field puzzle attribute was an interesting idea, but I've always seen it as a solution to a non-existent problem. Just making a cache with a field puzzle an unknown type seemed to work fine, insuring that anyone going to GZ had read the description and had an idea what was going on. If attributes were more obvious in the field, the field puzzle attribute might make sense for some cases, but none of my GPSrs show the attributes, so if I need to know it's a field puzzle, I'll need to be alerted at home, and that's what making it an unknown cache does.

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50 minutes ago, dprovan said:

Yes, and note that we don't have to assume carelessness. Not being prepared for a puzzle, they might think it's just a fancy container and the "lid" is just stuck shut, so they calmly and with no malfeasance, force it open.

 

I thought the field puzzle attribute was an interesting idea, but I've always seen it as a solution to a non-existent problem. Just making a cache with a field puzzle an unknown type seemed to work fine, insuring that anyone going to GZ had read the description and had an idea what was going on. If attributes were more obvious in the field, the field puzzle attribute might make sense for some cases, but none of my GPSrs show the attributes, so if I need to know it's a field puzzle, I'll need to be alerted at home, and that's what making it an unknown cache does.

 

I'm pretty sure my eXplorist shows me the attributes, but I have to click on the section.

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4 hours ago, dprovan said:

Yes, and note that we don't have to assume carelessness. Not being prepared for a puzzle, they might think it's just a fancy container and the "lid" is just stuck shut, so they calmly and with no malfeasance, force it open.

 

I thought the field puzzle attribute was an interesting idea, but I've always seen it as a solution to a non-existent problem. Just making a cache with a field puzzle an unknown type seemed to work fine, insuring that anyone going to GZ had read the description and had an idea what was going on. If attributes were more obvious in the field, the field puzzle attribute might make sense for some cases, but none of my GPSrs show the attributes, so if I need to know it's a field puzzle, I'll need to be alerted at home, and that's what making it an unknown cache does.

I don't know what GPSR's you're using but my fairly basic Garmin Etrex 20x shows attributes, it even spells them out in written form instead of the images shown on the cache page.

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Thanks for the responses! I'm happy to have received various opinions and explanations. I started this thread as a vent seeking explanations and/or support after seeing the CO post on Facebook, stating that the reviewer said the cache would have to be listed as Traditional because the box is at the published coords. In compliance with that demand, the cache was published as Traditional: B&BNV Puzzle Box

 

The listed difficulty is 3 stars, and it does have the Field Puzzle attribute. However, I know that many cachers see a Traditional on the map and go to it without reading the description (and hardly anybody looks at or even notices attributes.) They gloss over the cache title but might check the D/T ratings, if they even know what the rating is for. If they're on a cache run, they've forgotten any details in the listing and just see the icon on the map. They know a Traditional cache will be at the posted coordinates, and when they find the container, it should be easy to open.

 

I feel the CO should be able to weigh the pros and cons of how the cache is listed, and be able to make their choice. I disagree that the cache has to be listed as a Traditional because it is at the posted coords.

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45 minutes ago, BlueEagle23 said:

The listed difficulty is 3 stars, and it does have the Field Puzzle attribute. However, I know that many cachers see a Traditional on the map and go to it without reading the description (and hardly anybody looks at or even notices attributes.) They gloss over the cache title but might check the D/T ratings, if they even know what the rating is for. If they're on a cache run, they've forgotten any details in the listing and just see the icon on the map. They know a Traditional cache will be at the posted coordinates, and when they find the container, it should be easy to open.

Are you really living in such a dark Geocaching world?

I´m pretty sure that most cacher, experienced or nor, PM or not, will start reading the describtion at the latest when they hold a cache in theyre hands and start wondering how to get to the logbook. I don´t think that cachers, even if they don´t know what they are comming across, have an instant reflex to destroy this dang thing just to get to the logbook.

Time will tell. I´d like to know about the health of your cache in a year or so. I´m pretty sure it will be fine and people are not so evil or stupid as expacted.

Grats for you new Cache by the way!

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4 minutes ago, DerDiedler said:

I don´t think that cachers, even if they don´t know what they are comming across, have an instant reflex to destroy this dang thing just to get to the logbook.

 

Eventually this will happen. This is a consequence of the only goal being the name in the logbook.

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11 minutes ago, arisoft said:

Eventually this will happen. This is a consequence of the only goal being the name in the logbook.

 

But this might (or "will") also happen if the cache is listed as unknown cache.

Unfortunately even with unknown caches not everyone reads the listing - they get the coordinates elsewhere. And these are the kind of cachers who want their name in the book no matter what.

 

But what we must not forget: It is not always brute force of a mean cacher when the opening mechanism isn't working. That comes by time, weather, many people (trying to open it regularly), ... Nothing is forever I am afraid. :-(

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Another work around if listed as a unknown/mystery.  For example

 

Posted coordinates :  N 55°   55.555     W  888°   88.888

 

Additional waypoints make final coordinates visible:    N 55°   55.555      W  888°   88.887

 

Even if one goes to the posted coords, they should be able to find it.

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7 hours ago, arisoft said:
7 hours ago, DerDiedler said:

I don´t think that cachers, even if they don´t know what they are comming across, have an instant reflex to destroy this dang thing just to get to the logbook.

 

Eventually this will happen. This is a consequence of the only goal being the name in the logbook.

 

Yep. And it only takes one.

 

This is why I don't think such caches should be listed as traditional caches, even if they are at the posted coordinates.

 

And yes, I know there are people who get puzzle coordinates from cheat sites and don't bother reading the descriptions of mystery/puzzle caches. But there are more people who don't read the descriptions or who ignore the attributes of traditional caches. Nothing is certain, but it improves your odds.

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My field puzzles is always a traditional cache. But I've seen and been at field puzzles that is also a mystery cache. I don't know which is the best, but since there's cachers out there that avoid mysteries I decided to go with traditional. But I state clearly in the description that it is a field pussle and of course the attribute. 

 

An Idea is to add an additional symbol in the map and APP. That marks some attributes that stand out. Like recommended at night, field puzzle, special tools, not available during winter. Screens have quite high resolution today so it won't get cluttered as easy

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Quote

 

      9 hours ago, BlueEagle23 said:

The listed difficulty is 3 stars, and it does have the Field Puzzle attribute. However, I know that many cachers see a Traditional on the map and go to it without reading the description (and hardly anybody looks at or even notices attributes.) They gloss over the cache title but might check the D/T ratings, if they even know what the rating is for. If they're on a cache run, they've forgotten any details in the listing and just see the icon on the map. They know a Traditional cache will be at the posted coordinates, and when they find the container, it should be easy to open.

 

 

Quote

 


 

Are you really living in such a dark Geocaching world?

I´m pretty sure that most cacher, experienced or nor, PM or not, will start reading the describtion at the latest when they hold a cache in theyre hands and start wondering how to get to the logbook. I don´t think that cachers, even if they don´t know what they are comming across, have an instant reflex to destroy this dang thing just to get to the logbook.

Time will tell. I´d like to know about the health of your cache in a year or so. I´m pretty sure it will be fine and people are not so evil or stupid as expacted.

Grats for you new Cache by the way!

 

 

Nope, I'm with BlueEagle23 on this.

As I said in another post, I've had people tell me they work ONLY from the map and don't ever read past that. "Why should I? I don't care what happened here in 1754."

 

 

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1 hour ago, jocke92 said:

My field puzzles is always a traditional cache. But I've seen and been at field puzzles that is also a mystery cache. I don't know which is the best, but since there's cachers out there that avoid mysteries I decided to go with traditional. But I state clearly in the description that it is a field pussle and of course the attribute. 

 

Are you trying to trick people who don't do puzzles to visit your cache in an effort to make them do the puzzle? That's a good way to get your caches ignored by people who don't like puzzles. I'd rather just be honest about it, and only attract people who like puzzles.

 

Edited to add: You ARE stating it in the description, so that's not really bad, I guess.

 

1 hour ago, jocke92 said:

An Idea is to add an additional symbol in the map and APP. That marks some attributes that stand out. Like recommended at night, field puzzle, special tools, not available during winter. Screens have quite high resolution today so it won't get cluttered as easy

 

How high must the resolution be on my phone to show the attributes for individual caches in a moderately busy area?

Even on a PC monitor, ....

How would you select which attributes trigger the 'extra' icon? I could make a case for many of them!

Edited by TeamRabbitRun
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And the arguing continues...

 

Both are allowable. Neither "should" be used. Use what you feel is most appropriate, or what the reviewer requires; hope that people read, but prep for people who don't.

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37 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

hope that people read, but prep for people who don't.

 

Really great advice for ANY cache!

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10 hours ago, DerDiedler said:

I´m pretty sure that most cacher, experienced or nor, PM or not, will start reading the describtion at the latest when they hold a cache in theyre hands and start wondering how to get to the logbook. I don´t think that cachers, even if they don´t know what they are comming across, have an instant reflex to destroy this dang thing just to get to the logbook.

Everyone's run into a container that's hard to open for one reason or another. You don't have to assume the seeker has some kind of skewed priority system. You just have to imagine someone thinking there's nothing unusual about this traditional cache and concluding that the opening is just stuck, to see how a unexpected puzzle might be ruined by a perfectly innocent seeker.

 

I've never myself encountered someone that would intentionally ruin a field puzzle just out of spite, so I have a hard time imagining that's really a common explanation.

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3 hours ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

 

Are you trying to trick people who don't do puzzles to visit your cache in an effort to make them do the puzzle? That's a good way to get your caches ignored by people who don't like puzzles. I'd rather just be honest about it, and only attract people who like puzzles.

 

Edited to add: You ARE stating it in the description, so that's not really bad, I guess.

 

 

How high must the resolution be on my phone to show the attributes for individual caches in a moderately busy area?

Even on a PC monitor, ....

How would you select which attributes trigger the 'extra' icon? I could make a case for many of them!

I'm very apparent about it. But I know that people out there don't read the cache description always, as you should. And I'm also one of them that forget it sometimes. And I've wasted time because I didn't have all information on hand, that was clearly stated in the description. I might have taken the hard route rather than the one suggested by CO or didn't have the special tool required on hand.

 

I don't know how high resolution. But 1080 or similar is quite normal these days. There should be an option to turn it of, and maybe adjust it in some way. It need some testing to find out at which zoom level they should appear. I'm not using the official app, but GCdroid and C:geo both has small symbols in the corner of the cache icon. Another option is to put a filter on the map that will do attributes, but I don't like to remove stuff from the map. I navigate by the caches not the road, sometimes.

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5 hours ago, jocke92 said:

An Idea is to add an additional symbol in the map and APP. That marks some attributes that stand out. Like recommended at night, field puzzle, special tools, not available during winter. Screens have quite high resolution today so it won't get cluttered as easy

 

I'm wondering how you decide which attributes are important. (Not) Available During Winter is probably important in places that get a lot of snow but here in the subtropics it's irrelevant. Dangerous Animals is an important one here as we have some of the world's deadliest snakes on our doorsteps, but irrelevant in places like New Zealand where there are none (unless they consider sheep to be dangerous animals, I suppose). Likewise for ticks, important in places with Lyme disease but not so much elsewhere.

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13 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

 

I'm wondering how you decide which attributes are important. (Not) Available During Winter is probably important in places that get a lot of snow but here in the subtropics it's irrelevant. Dangerous Animals is an important one here as we have some of the world's deadliest snakes on our doorsteps, but irrelevant in places like New Zealand where there are none (unless they consider sheep to be dangerous animals, I suppose). Likewise for ticks, important in places with Lyme disease but not so much elsewhere.

I sometimes add some irrelevant (but still correct) attributes just for the fun of it.

Edited by funkymunkyzone

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28 minutes ago, funkymunkyzone said:

I sometimes add some irrelevant (but still correct) attributes just for the fun of it.

Here in the San Francisco Bay Area, it became something of an "in joke" to add the No Snowmobiles attribute to caches. Technically it's correct, because local parks would take a dim view of someone chewing up the trails with a snowmobile. But since it virtually never snows here, it's irrelevant.

 

(The last time it snowed at all was more than 40 years ago, and it certainly wasn't enough to warrant the use of snowmobiles.)

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7 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

hope that people read, but prep for people who don't.

In fairness, if someone really wants to sign a log whether the cache is a traditional or unknown won't stop someone from abusing the container.

There is an unknown by me that has a puzzle to get the coordinates and a field puzzle to get in that routinely gets abused (and by cachers that should know better).   

Edited by schmittfamily
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