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madalli
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Hi all.

I've noticed that due to the GPS included in most of the smartphones there are many people that start playing Geocaching and stop it after two or three finds.

The big issue is that some of them hide and create a new cache, without following the basic geocaching rules, setting coordinates distant hundred of meters from the actual GZ and without performing any maintenance, probably because they stop playing geocaching very quickly.

I think that hiding a cache in the best way, is fundamental to mantain the goodness of geocaching, otherwise there is the risk that it will disappear... :(

My suggestion is to limit the possibility to hide a new cache only to the players with some experience, e.g. Premium Members or Geocachers with a minimun number of founds (15-20-more?).

 

I would be very happy to hear the community idea on what above and, hopefully the Groundspeek team one!

 

Thanks

Regards

 

Dario

Italy

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how about first time hiders are required to Host a CITO Event, regardless of the number of Finds they have, before they're allowed to submit a geocache Listing?

This is an excellent idea, this way beginners will meet a lot of experienced cachers and only those that are really interested will take the time and afford to host a CITO.

 

I do like it :)

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Hello, madalli

 

I think that you have a good idea here, except for the part about Premium Members. There are many experienced and dedicated Geocachers that are NOT Premium Members. I do, however, agree with the part about Geocachers having to have a minimum number of finds. Perhaps they should have to have found at least two caches of each difficulty, maybe from 1 to 3? Hopefully, Groundspeak will make these changes, so that there are not any more of these caches that do not follow the guidelines.

 

-The GeoSpy

Edited by The GeoSpy
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Hi all.

I've noticed that due to the GPS included in most of the smartphones there are many people that start playing Geocaching and stop it after two or three finds.

The big issue is that some of them hide and create a new cache, without following the basic geocaching rules, setting coordinates distant hundred of meters from the actual GZ and without performing any maintenance, probably because they stop playing geocaching very quickly.

I think that hiding a cache in the best way, is fundamental to mantain the goodness of geocaching, otherwise there is the risk that it will disappear... :(

My suggestion is to limit the possibility to hide a new cache only to the players with some experience, e.g. Premium Members or Geocachers with a minimun number of founds (15-20-more?).

 

I would be very happy to hear the community idea on what above and, hopefully the Groundspeek team one!

 

Thanks

Regards

 

Dario

Italy

 

While you have identified a problem that many others have encountered, requiring a fixed minimum number of finds is not a very good solution, and would be counter productive. There is a huge disparity in the number of caches in different places around the world. There are some places with thousands of caches within 10-20km. There are also a lot of countries which have fewer than 10 caches in the entire country. If the minimum number of finds required was 20 finds it would be quite easy for someone living in a cache dense area (which may not really need more caches) to qualify to hide a cache, while someone living in a very cache sparse area (some place that could actually use more caches) would find it very difficult, if not impossible to find enough caches to qualify as a hider.

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IF they bother to read the "Geocache Listing Requirements / Guidelines" it does suggest:

 

The more geocaches that you have found, the better you will understand the various elements that make up a great geocaching experience. This knowledge will be invaluable when you place a hide, and likely make your geocache more enjoyable for the community. We encourage you to find at least twenty geocaches before you choose to hide one.

 

But why bother reading anything... :unsure:

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I've always hoped that Groundspeak would set a minimum time period after registration. I'd like it to be 2 months. This should decrease the number of fly-by-nighters, the scout caches, the geography class caches, the let's-hide-a-cache-for-a-lark caches. It could also decrease the number of caches planted by children without geocaching parents and no parental approval and assistance. And the new app owner who barely understands the app or the game, but hides a cache to try the it out, instead of experiencing the game by finding caches first, developing a long-term interest, understanding and commitment, then hiding a cache.

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set a minimum time period after registration

Also a very good idea.

 

Hello Groundspeak, please read the complains from so many cacher around the world about "One Day Flies" and implement some of the good ideas that users have. It would help Groundspeak, cache quality and all other cachers. Geocaching would improve in all aspects.

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I don't see the hiding of caches by new folks an "issue" at all here.

Most get weeded out pretty quickly, and get fixed or archived.

 

I've seen more poorly placed and crappy containers (those pill bottles are awesome containers?) by long-time, experienced, premium members, than the newb who starts and leaves after a few days.

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Even a newbie can make a good hide. I think the big problem with coords is the use of smartphone. Not all use a true GPS, they may use the cell towers only.

And those that do have true GPS first start out with a lock from the very inaccurate cell towers. Then switch over to GPS sattelites. Many that I have spoken to who have used only the smart phone GPS have reported turning on the

GPS app only to see no change in location for 60 to 100 feet.

Learning and knowing how to use what GPS that you have is the most important thing in this game. How to hide is second, yes finding a bunch will help.

But if you find a bunch of LPC hides first then what have you learned.

Not much! Getting advise is the best way to go for making g your first hide.

Then average, average, average those coords, no matter what you use.

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how about first time hiders are required to Host a CITO Event, regardless of the number of Finds they have, before they're allowed to submit a geocache Listing?

This is an excellent idea, this way beginners will meet a lot of experienced cachers and only those that are really interested will take the time and afford to host a CITO.

 

I do like it :)

Says the only two in this thread so far who's hosted any type of event... :laughing:

- And maybe Lone.R's real account.

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Even a newbie can make a good hide.

 

Yes, very true.

 

But it will still be a good hide if they wait 2 months. Someone who can't wait 2 months is not likely to be a responsible cache owner that maintains their cache and cache listing for the long run. A good hide becomes a junk hide if not maintained.

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how about first time hiders are required to Host a CITO Event, regardless of the number of Finds they have, before they're allowed to submit a geocache Listing?

This is an excellent idea, this way beginners will meet a lot of experienced cachers and only those that are really interested will take the time and afford to host a CITO.

 

I do like it :)

I've hosted/co-hosted almost 30 events over the years (most of my events are posted under a group account), and I don't think I've ever spent any money on one. There were several that we spent club money on, but that was a very small percentage of the whole.

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I don't see the hiding of caches by new folks an "issue" at all here.

Most get weeded out pretty quickly, and get fixed or archived.

 

I've seen more poorly placed and crappy containers (those pill bottles are awesome containers?) by long-time, experienced, premium members, than the newb who starts and leaves after a few days.

 

That's so true. There are many poorly placed crappy containers placed by everyone - experienced and inexperienced players. My take on it is that GS could put a dent in some of it by restricting hiding to those who show some commitment to the game. Most new people will probably quit the game shortly after starting, usually within 2 months.

 

 

Also, in my experience it takes 1-2 years for a fly-by-nighter cache to get archived. A pill bottle gets hidden in a park, then the new cacher quits the game a week later. 6 months later, reports come in that the logsheet is full, this continues for another 4 months, a finder eventually replaces the full logsheet with a new logsheet, the process repeats itself. over the next year. Then reports come in that the lid of the pill bottle is missing, the logsheet is soaked. People continue to log the cache for a couple more months. Maybe a couple of people log an NM. Maybe 4 months later the rest of the container goes missing. People start logging DNFs (with a smattering of find logs from people who log finds because they arrived at ground zero). 3 months later someone willing to log a Needs Archive logs the NA. The reviewer temporarily disables the cache 3 days later, one month later the reviewer archives the cache. It can be quite a long process and if it's a small park no other cache can be placed until it's archived.

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What is the problem you're trying to solve?

 

If the problem is fly-by-night cache owners who find a cache one day, hide a cache the next, and then promptly forget about geocaching, then I think a modest time requirement might help. If someone can't wait a month or two before their first hide is listed, then expecting long-term maintenance from them is unrealistic.

 

If the problem is caches that violate the guidelines, then I think requiring owners to pass a basic guidelines quiz might help. It would need to be clear unambiguous questions that are covered in the guidelines, without subjective questions about what makes a "good cache".

 

But in either case, I think the find count is the wrong measure.

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how about first time hiders are required to Host a CITO Event, regardless of the number of Finds they have, before they're allowed to submit a geocache Listing?

 

No thanks. While our goal is to eventually host a CITO, it just has not been feasible to do so in the 8 1/2 years we've been caching. It would be more than a little insulting to force me to host a CITO at this point before I'm allowed to publish another cache.

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how about first time hiders are required to Host a CITO Event, regardless of the number of Finds they have, before they're allowed to submit a geocache Listing?

 

No thanks. While our goal is to eventually host a CITO, it just has not been feasible to do so in the 8 1/2 years we've been caching. It would be more than a little insulting to force me to host a CITO at this point before I'm allowed to publish another cache.

Well, my post was more directed at new users, and a bit more germane to the topic, but I find it curious that you perceive volunteering your time to those agencies that take care of our public lands as an insult?

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how about first time hiders are required to Host a CITO Event, regardless of the number of Finds they have, before they're allowed to submit a geocache Listing?

 

No thanks. While our goal is to eventually host a CITO, it just has not been feasible to do so in the 8 1/2 years we've been caching. It would be more than a little insulting to force me to host a CITO at this point before I'm allowed to publish another cache.

Well, my post was more directed at new users, and a bit more germane to the topic, but I find it curious that you perceive volunteering your time to those agencies that take care of our public lands as an insult?

 

I think what they mean is that it would completely infeasible to expect anyone to host an event prior to placing a cache.

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Have seen many make this suggestion, that GS not allow people to hide without first gaining some experience. I've never thought this was a good idea,,, until lately. Still don't think something like this should be implemented because of experience, or lack of it.

 

If the problem is fly-by-night cache owners who find a cache one day, hide a cache the next, and then promptly forget about geocaching, then I think a modest time requirement might help. If someone can't wait a month or two before their first hide is listed, then expecting long-term maintenance from them is unrealistic.

 

Mainly because of the phone app, we see this stuff happening routinely these days. It wouldn't totally stop FBNCP (fly by night cache placement) but disallowing cache placement for, say a month, would help with the growing problem.

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how about first time hiders are required to Host a CITO Event, regardless of the number of Finds they have, before they're allowed to submit a geocache Listing?

 

No thanks. While our goal is to eventually host a CITO, it just has not been feasible to do so in the 8 1/2 years we've been caching. It would be more than a little insulting to force me to host a CITO at this point before I'm allowed to publish another cache.

Well, my post was more directed at new users, and a bit more germane to the topic, but I find it curious that you perceive volunteering your time to those agencies that take care of our public lands as an insult?

 

I think what they mean is that it would completely infeasible to expect anyone to host an event prior to placing a cache.

 

No kidding. Caching can be done during 'in-between' times...along a commute, on a lunch break, etc. That's almost entirely how I cache. Hosting an event - particularly a CITO - requires planning, organization, permissions, etc. that many - if not most - folks do not have. It's unreasonable to ask that of anyone.

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I've read MANY threads about this exact topic.

 

What hasn't been mentioned yet regarding requiring a certain number of finds before being allowed to hide are things like this:

 


  •  
  • 'Family' or 'Team' accounts split up; somebody signs up for their own account. Years-long experience with hundreds of finds. It's only the NEW ACCOUNT that's new and inexperienced, NOT the cacher. Lots of BF/GF accounts split up. People get divorced. Somebody in a family decides they want to keep their own stats. Kids grow up and want their own accounts. People move away from old BFF's. Yes, they can copy all their own old finds over to the new account, but that's a lot of work and why should they have to, especially when the point may be to record the stuff they do ON THEIR OWN?
  • Lots of people have two accounts - one for hiding, one for finding.
  • Sometimes, people want to start fresh with a new ID - it's an ugly truth, but there are harassers and maybe even stalkers in this hobby. Piss off (or just look attractive to) the wrong person, and you may want to change your ID. Don't really 'get' this point? Ask any woman.
     

 

So, it sure sounds like an easy way to partially address the problems being discussed, but it's really not that simple. Requiring a certain number of finds is a bad idea.

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The reviewers in our area are pretty tough on new cache placements. I've been caching for about 5 years and have placed a few caches and I still have to jump through hoops to get one published.

 

This is a good thing.

 

I can't imagine a new cacher placing a cache in my area without knowing the guidelines. Simply wouldn't get published unless they had all there T's crossed and I's dotted. Hell, I kinda know what I'm doing and there were still a few times I almost gave up.

 

I think the big requirement that our reviewers hammer on is permission. A simple letter from the land owner or manager is great but you better have a contact phone number or e-mail address to go along with it.

 

Good luck getting another cache published if you weren't up front and honest about the last one.

 

If a person is going to take the time to track down permission there probably serious about being a cache owner.

 

The number one thing I try to impress on a cacher looking to hide his/her first cache is that it's not like the Ronco Rotisserie Oven. You don't set it and forget it.

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I've always hoped that Groundspeak would set a minimum time period after registration. I'd like it to be 2 months. This should decrease the number of fly-by-nighters, the scout caches, the geography class caches, the let's-hide-a-cache-for-a-lark caches. It could also decrease the number of caches planted by children without geocaching parents and no parental approval and assistance. And the new app owner who barely understands the app or the game, but hides a cache to try the it out, instead of experiencing the game by finding caches first, developing a long-term interest, understanding and commitment, then hiding a cache.

 

No system would be perfect but this works for me.....lets do it.

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I've always hoped that Groundspeak would set a minimum time period after registration. I'd like it to be 2 months. This should decrease the number of fly-by-nighters, the scout caches, the geography class caches, the let's-hide-a-cache-for-a-lark caches. It could also decrease the number of caches planted by children without geocaching parents and no parental approval and assistance. And the new app owner who barely understands the app or the game, but hides a cache to try the it out, instead of experiencing the game by finding caches first, developing a long-term interest, understanding and commitment, then hiding a cache.

 

No system would be perfect but this works for me.....lets do it.

Agreed.

If any system was to take place, a learning-while-caching/calming down & think it through period may be a fair option.

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I've noticed that due to the GPS included in most of the smartphones there are many people that start playing Geocaching and stop it after two or three finds.

The big issue...

You're seeing this a lot in your area, then? There are lots and lots of cachers in my area, and newbies coming and going all the time, and I see maybe one new cache a month that seemed like the CO didn't have enough experience, and most of the time they get the experience from the mistakes on that cache and everything's fine after that. In the worst case, which might happen twice a year, the cache is found once or never found, then gets archived. I don't see that as a big issue in the slightest. Just another lost cache.

 

No system would be perfect but this works for me.....lets do it.

No system is perfect, and I think the current system -- i.e., nothing -- is pretty darned good. Much better than any system that puts GS in charge of who can and can't hide caches.

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Hi all.

I've noticed that due to the GPS included in most of the smartphones there are many people that start playing Geocaching and stop it after two or three finds.

The big issue is that some of them hide and create a new cache, without following the basic geocaching rules, setting coordinates distant hundred of meters from the actual GZ and without performing any maintenance, probably because they stop playing geocaching very quickly.

I think that hiding a cache in the best way, is fundamental to mantain the goodness of geocaching, otherwise there is the risk that it will disappear... :(

My suggestion is to limit the possibility to hide a new cache only to the players with some experience, e.g. Premium Members or Geocachers with a minimun number of founds (15-20-more?).

 

I would be very happy to hear the community idea on what above and, hopefully the Groundspeek team one!

 

Thanks

Regards

 

Dario

Italy

 

You said you would be happy to hear from the community and we are a part of it so...

 

I kind of agree with the idea here.

 

However having to throw a CITO before placing a cache sounds crazy to me. We have out over 180 caches and are in the top 25 CO with the most favorite points in California and have never thrown a even, no less a CITO. And having never even placed a cache I have no idea how someone would make a good quality event or CITO anyways. One of the reasons we started to like caching is we don't have to be around other people. Now we have many geocaching friends and would be cool with doing a event but that is after 4+ years of caching. No way we were ready to set that up in the first year or so. Also for a long time we didn't want when people looked up our hides to see a bunch of archived hides and we would have to archive our first hide? This idea wouldn't go over well with how we like to play the game.

 

Then with the time limit/find count before placing a cache. I like to fish but my daughter is not to much into it. We found caching and we quickly realize it was something we could both enjoy together. My daughter who was the important one here because I was looking for a hobby we could enjoy together instantly wanted to place a cache. We found a few caches on one weekend and talked of ideas of where and what to place. The very next weekend I had her probably a week after our first find we started to place a couple of caches and it was what she really enjoyed. Those caches are still active. (On a side note we only cache with our phones) Had we not been able to join in on the fun of placing caches for a few months or 50 finds or something I am not sure we would have kept playing.

 

Now 4 years later the main thing we do when we are together is cache. It is both finding and hiding and we love the game. Just this last weekend we came up with a crazy puzzle for a friend who is also a cacher and we kayaked out somewhere crazy and placed a cache. A few weekends before that we went to a wedding and reception of a friend we met caching.

 

Anyways my point is you never have any idea who is going to stick with the game and who will leave at any time. Or if the person who has been playing for a long time is going to maintain there cache. To put restrictions on a new cacher who might have the best idea for a cache that us playing for years might never think of is not the best way to go about this in my opinion. The idea that someone is playing with there phone means they are not going to be a good cache owner is also possibly not true. I know sometimes it is but not always.

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I've always hoped that Groundspeak would set a minimum time period after registration. I'd like it to be 2 months. This should decrease the number of fly-by-nighters, the scout caches, the geography class caches, the let's-hide-a-cache-for-a-lark caches. It could also decrease the number of caches planted by children without geocaching parents and no parental approval and assistance. And the new app owner who barely understands the app or the game, but hides a cache to try the it out, instead of experiencing the game by finding caches first, developing a long-term interest, understanding and commitment, then hiding a cache.

 

No system would be perfect but this works for me.....lets do it.

Agreed.

If any system was to take place, a learning-while-caching/calming down & think it through period may be a fair option.

A one-month wait sounds reasonable to me. It would eliminate the fly-by-nighters.

 

Generalizations about the Scouts & the classes are iffy. I recall a Scout hide that was excellent: fine container, fine location, fine coords. I haven't checked on the maintenance though.

Edited by wmpastor
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I've said this before and I'll say it again. New cachers are MUCH more likely to place caches in interesting locations than the bulk of veteran cachers. Most new cachers get into the game because they read an article or saw a video about geocaching. Usually such media items showcase cool spots or cool containers - an ammo can near a waterfall for example, or a small cache hidden in a clever way in a neighborhood park. They will want to copy this experience. You'll seldom see videos about how great lamp post or guardrail caches are.

 

Thus, a new cacher will in almost all cases have a nice location, but possibly a crappy gladware container and bad coordinates. Personally, I'd much rather find a soggy log with bad coordinates in a park, than a pristine dry cache in a lamp post.

 

At least that's been my experience here - I'll almost always look forward to a new cacher's placement who has only found 5 caches so far, than to find #146 in some series from a big numbers cacher. And yes, very often the cache is forgotten and turns to trash and gets archived but for that brief moment in time it gave some people pleasure.

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Thus, a new cacher will in almost all cases have a nice location, but possibly a crappy gladware container and bad coordinates.

 

My experience differs. We do have veteran cachers who throw caches out in crappy locations for the sake of adding to their empire but most of the caches I've found in pointless locations have been from newbie hiders. There's been a number of occasions though where the cache container on those newbie hides has been better than the norm and coordinates have been spot-on.

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Generalizations about the Scouts & the classes are iffy. I recall a Scout hide that was excellent: fine container, fine location, fine coords. I haven't checked on the maintenance though.

 

The scout caches I've found were all quite nice. Half of them were logs that had been sawed in half and chiseled out to fit a container and all were swag size inner containers. I'm sure it was a fun project for the scouts. But every one of those caches ended up abandoned. They fell apart, NMs were ignored and finally, a year or two later, archived by a reviewer.

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Thus, a new cacher will in almost all cases have a nice location, but possibly a crappy gladware container and bad coordinates.

 

My experience differs. We do have veteran cachers who throw caches out in crappy locations for the sake of adding to their empire but most of the caches I've found in pointless locations have been from newbie hiders. There's been a number of occasions though where the cache container on those newbie hides has been better than the norm and coordinates have been spot-on.

 

Many newbie hides are half decent, just like there are many caches by veterans that are decent caches. Perhaps newbie hide quality is equal to veteran hide quality.

 

But most of us have experienced the fly-by-night cache, good or bad, that gets planted and immediately abandoned.

 

The process to get archive abandoned caches is a long one. More often it's 1-2 years. Because most people don't like being "cache cops" and won't post NMs and NAs. Caches that go missing might go to archival quicker but I've seen many caches with strings of DNFs that go on for a year with no one logging an NM, then NA. Junk caches that are still there, go much longer because most cachers are happy to get the find and move on, without considering the poor experience for the next finders that prefers finding caches in good shape rather than leaky, broken containers with blackened, moldy, tattered full logsheets.

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I was recently reading over some old logs, and I saw this one that I was the first person to log on. The owner had only been caching for a few days when he placed this and a few other caches. The coordinates were way off and no one ever did find it. He temporarily disabled it and then quit caching a week later without ever updating it. http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC1H7YZ_comm-tree?guid=58b235db-345f-4699-a0b3-516faa1da0b5

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Thus, a new cacher will in almost all cases have a nice location, but possibly a crappy gladware container and bad coordinates.

 

My experience differs. We do have veteran cachers who throw caches out in crappy locations for the sake of adding to their empire but most of the caches I've found in pointless locations have been from newbie hiders. There's been a number of occasions though where the cache container on those newbie hides has been better than the norm and coordinates have been spot-on.

 

Mine differs as well. Sure, there are some lame hides placed by old timers but for the most part, most of the less desirable caches come from newer cachers.

 

I figure that many new cachers come across the phone app and then start playing without doing much research. They find simple parking lot caches then if they decide to place one of their own, copy what they've found.

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Hi all.

I've noticed that due to the GPS included in most of the smartphones there are many people that start playing Geocaching and stop it after two or three finds.

The big issue is that some of them hide and create a new cache, without following the basic geocaching rules, setting coordinates distant hundred of meters from the actual GZ and without performing any maintenance, probably because they stop playing geocaching very quickly.

I think that hiding a cache in the best way, is fundamental to mantain the goodness of geocaching, otherwise there is the risk that it will disappear... :(

My suggestion is to limit the possibility to hide a new cache only to the players with some experience, e.g. Premium Members or Geocachers with a minimun number of founds (15-20-more?).

 

I would be very happy to hear the community idea on what above and, hopefully the Groundspeek team one!

 

Thanks

Regards

 

Dario

Italy

 

It's a lot of fun to have your own geocache. I would advocate to any newbies that they limit this to 1 or 2 until they have some experience and really understand the obligation they are putting on themselves. Also we need to strongly push the idea that if you loose interest in geocaching you need to remove or adopt away your geocaches.

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how about first time hiders are required to Host a CITO Event, regardless of the number of Finds they have, before they're allowed to submit a geocache Listing?

This is an excellent idea, this way beginners will meet a lot of experienced cachers and only those that are really interested will take the time and afford to host a CITO.

 

I do like it :)

I've hosted/co-hosted almost 30 events over the years (most of my events are posted under a group account), and I don't think I've ever spent any money on one. There were several that we spent club money on, but that was a very small percentage of the whole.

 

Must be nice. When we were throwing events (3-4 per year), we were shelling out $1000-2000 per event. The worst year we ever had, we threw 4, and paid out $15,000 that year!

 

BOT, this basic idea gets tossed around every so often, and with the same result. It ain't gonna happen. Sure, it would be nice, and if they read the guidelines that would help, but you might as well wish for a pony. You'll get that sooner.

 

TPTB have said , more than once, there isn't ever gonna be a minimum anything rule before someone can hide their first cache.

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how about first time hiders are required to Host a CITO Event, regardless of the number of Finds they have, before they're allowed to submit a geocache Listing?

This is an excellent idea, this way beginners will meet a lot of experienced cachers and only those that are really interested will take the time and afford to host a CITO.

 

I do like it :)

I've hosted/co-hosted almost 30 events over the years (most of my events are posted under a group account), and I don't think I've ever spent any money on one. There were several that we spent club money on, but that was a very small percentage of the whole.

 

Must be nice. When we were throwing events (3-4 per year), we were shelling out $1000-2000 per event. The worst year we ever had, we threw 4, and paid out $15,000 that year!

 

BOT, this basic idea gets tossed around every so often, and with the same result. It ain't gonna happen. Sure, it would be nice, and if they read the guidelines that would help, but you might as well wish for a pony. You'll get that sooner.

 

TPTB have said , more than once, there isn't ever gonna be a minimum anything rule before someone can hide their first cache.

 

Well, you throw huge shindigs! And quite well, in fact. I'm lazy and just do simple restaurant dinners or picnics. Just an excuse to get the locals together. :)

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I'm lazy and just do simple restaurant dinners or picnics. Just an excuse to get the locals together. :)
The last event I attended was a simple bring-your-own-lunch picnic at a park where the tables were first-come-first-served. That's pretty typical for the events I've attended. The organizer doesn't need to pay anything, not even a reservation fee for the location.
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I'm lazy and just do simple restaurant dinners or picnics. Just an excuse to get the locals together. :)
The last event I attended was a simple bring-your-own-lunch picnic at a park where the tables were first-come-first-served. That's pretty typical for the events I've attended. The organizer doesn't need to pay anything, not even a reservation fee for the location.

Yup! That was my last event. Bring your own meal picnic. Just one picnic table unfortunately, but people brought their own chairs. It was nice and relaxed, and we were able to talk a lot. I actually like it better than a restaurant, less stress and noise. Being out in nature just makes everything better.

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I'm lazy and just do simple restaurant dinners or picnics. Just an excuse to get the locals together. :)
The last event I attended was a simple bring-your-own-lunch picnic at a park where the tables were first-come-first-served. That's pretty typical for the events I've attended. The organizer doesn't need to pay anything, not even a reservation fee for the location.

Yup! That was my last event. Bring your own meal picnic. Just one picnic table unfortunately, but people brought their own chairs. It was nice and relaxed, and we were able to talk a lot. I actually like it better than a restaurant, less stress and noise. Being out in nature just makes everything better.

 

Yup, yup. I did one like that last year and everyone really enjoyed it. We also brought a camp table to use for the trackables. The only expense I had was to buy a case of bottled water--I think I still have about 20 bottles left.

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I'm lazy and just do simple restaurant dinners or picnics. Just an excuse to get the locals together. :)
The last event I attended was a simple bring-your-own-lunch picnic at a park where the tables were first-come-first-served. That's pretty typical for the events I've attended. The organizer doesn't need to pay anything, not even a reservation fee for the location.

Yup! That was my last event. Bring your own meal picnic. Just one picnic table unfortunately, but people brought their own chairs. It was nice and relaxed, and we were able to talk a lot. I actually like it better than a restaurant, less stress and noise. Being out in nature just makes everything better.

 

Yup, yup. I did one like that last year and everyone really enjoyed it. We also brought a camp table to use for the trackables. The only expense I had was to buy a case of bottled water--I think I still have about 20 bottles left.

Yeah, bring a table is a good idea.

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how about first time hiders are required to Host a CITO Event, regardless of the number of Finds they have, before they're allowed to submit a geocache Listing?

This is an excellent idea, this way beginners will meet a lot of experienced cachers and only those that are really interested will take the time and afford to host a CITO.

 

I do like it :)

I've hosted/co-hosted almost 30 events over the years (most of my events are posted under a group account), and I don't think I've ever spent any money on one. There were several that we spent club money on, but that was a very small percentage of the whole.

 

Must be nice. When we were throwing events (3-4 per year), we were shelling out $1000-2000 per event. The worst year we ever had, we threw 4, and paid out $15,000 that year!

 

BOT, this basic idea gets tossed around every so often, and with the same result. It ain't gonna happen. Sure, it would be nice, and if they read the guidelines that would help, but you might as well wish for a pony. You'll get that sooner.

 

TPTB have said , more than once, there isn't ever gonna be a minimum anything rule before someone can hide their first cache.

 

I have to disagree Mark. The Spring Flings and Geolau's were not events. Calling them an event is like calling the Chicago fire a recreational bonfire. What you had was a happening or a production, the Burning Man of geocaching. A magnificent several hours immersed in all that was fun and geocaching. And the GeoBoo, oh my. I thank you for those fun filled hours. You truly set the bar and nothing has come close since. Every April I look at the event listings, hoping against hope that I will see another one listed. I'm glad I got to experience them.

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I don't see the hiding of caches by new folks an "issue" at all here.

Most get weeded out pretty quickly, and get fixed or archived.

 

I've seen more poorly placed and crappy containers (those pill bottles are awesome containers?) by long-time, experienced, premium members, than the newb who starts and leaves after a few days.

 

I think the "issue" is that whilst there is potential to dilute the games quality the main issues are:

 

1. More time spent by those trying to enjoy the game dealing with running out to repair/replace/find caches that need no maintenance/replacement and find caches that have lousy coordinates or are placed in in inappropriate places/containers.

 

2. Extra work for the reviewers sending CO's on wild goose chases to their caches. And having to revisit many more cache pages to see where they went wrong. Only to discover the page has changed. The cache is not at the coordinates listed. The logs state it's a glass bottle or on private land and many more reasons.

 

3. A poor attitude to advisory emails from the rest of the community. We have a choice if we see something wrong. Write it in a log. Email the person concerned or report it to a reviewer. We usually opt for contacting the indevidual with a "just so you know" email. This is usually met with a good ignoring which is their choice. Then the reviewer eventually gets wind of it via Facebook and then you get abuse or log deleted because they assume it was you that ruined how they wanted to do something. Because they have no idea how the word spreads etc. Sometimes though you do get thanks for giving them the heads up. It's rare though.

 

4. Geocaching and its pitfalls are something we are all aware of over time. But it isn't just us it effects. Permissions from land owners are given after reassurance by us or the reputation of the game or the professional nature of most cachers. However these few can give it a bad name and Joe Public reacts by contacting Groundspeak direct. The result is a fast response by Groundspeak to protect their reputation. This inflames the newbies to give up and as a result of the potential fall out another but of our game gets eroded away. This has the potential to effect value for money for the long term used and will effect future cache placement by us all.

 

As for rubbish cache placement by long term users ... well can you blame them. Here in the UK cache placement requires land owners permission on anything but roads and nearby forests owned by the forestry commission or the coast path. And a few random extra places. Footpaths though sacrosanct for walking use are not so for geocsche placement. Who the hell knows who owns what. Most cannot be bothered to track down a landowner which unless you intend to pay for the information means knocking on doors.

 

So rubbish cache placement will happen because it is the path of least resistance for a CO. Expect roadside cache placement to increase radically as Groundspeak increase their choke hold on land owner permission.

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3. A poor attitude to advisory emails from the rest of the community. We have a choice if we see something wrong. Write it in a log. Email the person concerned or report it to a reviewer. We usually opt for contacting the indevidual with a "just so you know" email. This is usually met with a good ignoring which is their choice. Then the reviewer eventually gets wind of it via Facebook and then you get abuse or log deleted because they assume it was you that ruined how they wanted to do something. Because they have no idea how the word spreads etc. Sometimes though you do get thanks for giving them the heads up. It's rare though.

Honestly, I think the idea that you should shy away from NM logs and send private e-mail is part of the problem. Once a community decides that going public by posting NMs is a bad idea, the best solution is lost. Yeah, some people might react negatively to any NM -- I hear: I've never run into anyone like that myself -- but the fewer NMs posted, the more negative they appear to everyone. Better to go ahead and post NMs and deal with the consequences. As time goes on, the bullies will be corrected or banned, and the glass jawed COs will leave. What remains is a community using NMs and NAs for the healthy notification system they were designed to be.

 

If a cache has a problem the CO needs to be told about, then it has a problem everyone should know about.

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Honestly, I think the idea that you should shy away from NM logs and send private e-mail is part of the problem. Once a community decides that going public by posting NMs is a bad idea, the best solution is lost. Yeah, some people might react negatively to any NM -- I hear: I've never run into anyone like that myself -- but the fewer NMs posted, the more negative they appear to everyone. Better to go ahead and post NMs and deal with the consequences. As time goes on, the bullies will be corrected or banned, and the glass jawed COs will leave. What remains is a community using NMs and NAs for the healthy notification system they were designed to be.

 

If a cache has a problem the CO needs to be told about, then it has a problem everyone should know about.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself B)

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3. A poor attitude to advisory emails from the rest of the community. We have a choice if we see something wrong. Write it in a log. Email the person concerned or report it to a reviewer. We usually opt for contacting the indevidual with a "just so you know" email. This is usually met with a good ignoring which is their choice. Then the reviewer eventually gets wind of it via Facebook and then you get abuse or log deleted because they assume it was you that ruined how they wanted to do something. Because they have no idea how the word spreads etc. Sometimes though you do get thanks for giving them the heads up. It's rare though.

Honestly, I think the idea that you should shy away from NM logs and send private e-mail is part of the problem. Once a community decides that going public by posting NMs is a bad idea, the best solution is lost. Yeah, some people might react negatively to any NM -- I hear: I've never run into anyone like that myself -- but the fewer NMs posted, the more negative they appear to everyone. Better to go ahead and post NMs and deal with the consequences. As time goes on, the bullies will be corrected or banned, and the glass jawed COs will leave. What remains is a community using NMs and NAs for the healthy notification system they were designed to be.

If a cache has a problem the CO needs to be told about, then it has a problem everyone should know about.

 

+10

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