Shawnonabike

I try to give each cache the comment I feel it deserves. If the cache is the type designed just to allow you to accumulate numbers (easy to find, the same as the previous one, and the same as the 50 next ones) then it deserves just a few words. (I am not putting these caches down. They serve there purpose and can be fun). But if I feel a cache is very difficult, tricky, or creative it deserves a longer personal note, so that's what I give it. I have found many lonely caches (never found for months or years) and the owners are often so happy for a log that we begin a correspondence. But please don't expect a long personal note when its a power trail. The series may have a unique and personal nature, but the individuals don't.

Might your disappointment be misplaced? Should you blame the accidental finder for the find or maybe someone else? Who said anything about assigning blame? 'Blame' assumes 'fault', which in turn implies that something is wrong with the setup. It could be the most devious of hides in the most gorgeous and scenic location and it would still feel slightly disappointing to know that part of the effort of devising a puzzle or multi was not fully appreciated by someone...especially the FTF. There's nothing at all inherently "wrong" with them finding it. It's kind of like setting up a big surprise party and having folks hide in the back room...only to have the person you are surprising see all the cars and walk in the back door. The full effect was not fully realized. The party wasn't ruined, but the reveal was not experienced as intended. True, but the hypothetical is unlikely. And after the accidental FTF, there will be a geocaching finder who does the puzzle, etc., along with the full search, and who writes a nice log. Then the CO will feel better, I hope. Plus many more finders will later express their appreciation for the cache. In my opinion to log a multicache you need to find each element, so accidently finding the final would not count. The accidental finder who signs the logbook of any cache (other than Challenge caches) has WAAAY more right to claim a find than the person who merely goes to the cache location, however remote it may be, and fails to find the cache. Can't argue with that, but its still not legit to log a multiple when you only found the last one by fluke. I think anyway. They still found it, they get to log it. It doesn't matter if it's a traditional, A multi of any length or a puzzle that requires intimate knowledge of astrophysics AND the biology of the Fairy Penguin and their interactions to get the coordinates...... Get the log in your hands and you can claim the find. The fact of the matter is that the multiple stops or puzzles are just road blocks, in the real world we reward people who find ways around these road blocks. good point!

I don't like the idea of leaving money for FTF. I would rather leave some token that a true geocacher would value, but not thieves.

True. And for me this is a game I play by myself or with a few good friends, so what someone else does or doesn't do is not important to me. (Unless they are thieves and vandals. I want them to disappear!)

I found a body once. She was very cute. Did you mean a dead one? Yuck!

It's a lot of fun to have your own geocache. I would advocate to any newbies that they limit this to 1 or 2 until they have some experience and really understand the obligation they are putting on themselves. Also we need to strongly push the idea that if you loose interest in geocaching you need to remove or adopt away your geocaches.

When I travel I don't use up a lot of time geocaching, but if I can combine it with interesting places to see I do so. Just a few in each country is good enough for me. Next March I'm visiting the Czech Republic, Italy, and Austria. Never been to Europe so I'd love to see some smileys there!

I'm wondering if group caching under a team name should only be allowed if they set up a team account and then only log finds under the team-name-of-the-day account (not individually), just to stop this ever increasing practice of large groups practically arm-chair logging, not to mention posting cut n paste non-logs that say nothing about the individual caches and treating caches like their only value is a smiley. Personally I don't give a hoot if people want to inflate their count, if it only didn't effect the cache ownership aspect of the game so negatively. "Team" caching is getting out of hand and being abused. As a cache owner it's very discouraging. I put a lot of time and effort into providing I hope, a very good geocaching experiencing. The ever increasing emphasis on numbers (and I suspect a large percentage of those numbers hounds do it because of the ever increasing emphasis on statistics/grids/challenges/badges/souvenirs) is getting more than frustrating. Personally, I think groups claiming caches when only one signs is just fine, and even necessary in some circumstances, but every claimer should be in the presence of each cache. If you can't walk up to the cache and point it out, you weren't there!

Rules don't mean anything unless there is the means and will to enforce them. The only thing anyone can do is try to "enlighten" people by expressing the logic behind one's point of view. To me it can be likened to religion: I don't respect the "hardliners" who see only one point of view, and I don't respect those who claim to belong, but don't do so with any personal guidelines or serious intent. To me Geocaching is a series of challenges that give me personal satisfaction. Many thanks to the people who have expressed their opinions to me.

Might your disappointment be misplaced? Should you blame the accidental finder for the find or maybe someone else? Who said anything about assigning blame? 'Blame' assumes 'fault', which in turn implies that something is wrong with the setup. It could be the most devious of hides in the most gorgeous and scenic location and it would still feel slightly disappointing to know that part of the effort of devising a puzzle or multi was not fully appreciated by someone...especially the FTF. There's nothing at all inherently "wrong" with them finding it. It's kind of like setting up a big surprise party and having folks hide in the back room...only to have the person you are surprising see all the cars and walk in the back door. The full effect was not fully realized. The party wasn't ruined, but the reveal was not experienced as intended. True, but the hypothetical is unlikely. And after the accidental FTF, there will be a geocaching finder who does the puzzle, etc., along with the full search, and who writes a nice log. Then the CO will feel better, I hope. Plus many more finders will later express their appreciation for the cache. In my opinion to log a multicache you need to find each element, so accidently finding the final would not count. The accidental finder who signs the logbook of any cache (other than Challenge caches) has WAAAY more right to claim a find than the person who merely goes to the cache location, however remote it may be, and fails to find the cache. Can't argue with that, but its still not legit to log a multiple when you only found the last one by fluke. I think anyway.

It's even better when they also add multiple spoiler images that basically give away the final location of your multi-cache My GPS doesn't show images, but I agree. Like when you enjoy a puzzle and someone just shouts out the answer. Legitimate hints are the ones that simply correct missinformation. But even a message like, "Wow, I didn't expect that!" can be helpful (and Okay, in my opinion)

You have a good philosophy. I guess the most frustrating part is that when I look for a tricky cache I often scroll "previous logs" on my GPS looking for hints or updated coordinates, etc. and it only shows a couple of pages. The cut and paste people ruin this.

The type of log I like varies with the cache I have placed. If I went to a lot of trouble to place a really special cache I do like to receive a short personal note from the finder. What bothers me are the long-winded, obviously cut and paste variety that sometimes run to pages and have very little to do with that cache in question. These logs also bother me when I am searching for a cache. I often check previous logs on my GPS only to find that the entire space is filling with these long impersonal notes.

What bothers me even more are the long-winded logs covering pages of information that has nothing to do with my cache, and are obviously cut and paste jobs.

Might your disappointment be misplaced? Should you blame the accidental finder for the find or maybe someone else? Who said anything about assigning blame? 'Blame' assumes 'fault', which in turn implies that something is wrong with the setup. It could be the most devious of hides in the most gorgeous and scenic location and it would still feel slightly disappointing to know that part of the effort of devising a puzzle or multi was not fully appreciated by someone...especially the FTF. There's nothing at all inherently "wrong" with them finding it. It's kind of like setting up a big surprise party and having folks hide in the back room...only to have the person you are surprising see all the cars and walk in the back door. The full effect was not fully realized. The party wasn't ruined, but the reveal was not experienced as intended. True, but the hypothetical is unlikely. And after the accidental FTF, there will be a geocaching finder who does the puzzle, etc., along with the full search, and who writes a nice log. Then the CO will feel better, I hope. Plus many more finders will later express their appreciation for the cache. In my opinion to log a multicache you need to find each element, so accidently finding the final would not count.

Most people who have been caching for a while find the rare accidental cache. Don't we all take a peek in a "likely spot" occasionally? and sometimes get lucky? I log any cache I find if I have identified it by map and description so there is no doubt I got the right one. If I need to I check with the owner first just to make sure I've got the correct cache.

And I'll just add that I wish the mentality of an NA in a case where a throwdown has been placed, the Reviewer would still require that the owner go out, confirm the cache is in good repair, and then log an OM log. Throwdowns do not equal cache maintenance as required by the guidelines. I'm waiting to see what happens to an abandoned missing cache that I placed an NA on, that subsequently had a throwdown placed. I'm constantly bewildered by the "this cache is ___ years old, so I would hate to see it archived" argument. What magic age does a cache have to achieve to become exempt from the maintenance requirement? I agree with your point of view, if the cache does not exist anymore, but finding a really old cache, especially if it has not been found in years, is really neat. Even if it is full of nothing but water and paper mush! Nah. It's actually worse tham lame because the pile of rubbish you find at GZ completely destroys the degree of esteem and high expectations that brought you to seek it out in the first place. When I look around me and see a beautiful snowy mountainside and have the near certain knowledge that I'm the only human within kilometers, a soggy log doesn't bother me to that high a degree. Its all about what you value (and I am not putting down the values of others. This is just my opinion) And I value the journey a bit more than the destination. Mind you, I will attempt to clean the mess up and drop in another log book.

And as long as you don't log the find on-line, you're golden. They are golden if they are golden in their own eyes. Geocaching is not a competition and we can't control what other people do. As a person who enjoys this non-competitive sport, I live by the rules I value and they are not the rules everyone else has. So I don't really care about what other people do. I figure a cheat will soon find geocaching boring and leave the community. As for me, I like to leave proof of my finds. I like the thought of leaving my handle somewhere own in the wilderness or in a foreign country for others to see. Geocaching is about some person doing my a great favor by leading me to a beautiful spot I may never have discovered otherwise.

I think that finding a cache means finding it, opening it up (because sometimes this is intended to be tricky) and signing the log. Sometimes, however the log is missing or damaged. When this happens I may drop a slip of paper in with my signature or take a photo of the cache to prove that I found it. Anybody who routinely refuses to sign logs is likely a cheater. If I found a cache and mine was the first signature I would claim a FTF for myself even if someone had claimed to find it before me. I mean really! What kind of cacher would get there first and then neglect to sign? Deceitful behavior.

And I'll just add that I wish the mentality of an NA in a case where a throwdown has been placed, the Reviewer would still require that the owner go out, confirm the cache is in good repair, and then log an OM log. Throwdowns do not equal cache maintenance as required by the guidelines. I'm waiting to see what happens to an abandoned missing cache that I placed an NA on, that subsequently had a throwdown placed. I'm constantly bewildered by the "this cache is ___ years old, so I would hate to see it archived" argument. What magic age does a cache have to achieve to become exempt from the maintenance requirement? I agree with your point of view, if the cache does not exist anymore, but finding a really old cache, especially if it has not been found in years, is really neat. Even if it is full of nothing but water and paper mush!

I once returned to a cache I didn't find the first time and this time I found two caches within a couple of meters of each other. Is the second cache what you call a "Throw down"?

You neither found the cache nor lived up to your own standards. As I said. I know this smiley will soon disappear and no longer be counted. This doesn't bother me cause I don't really care about the numbers. Sorry if the post offended you. Your post didn't offend me. You invited anyone viewing your post to see if they agreed or disagreed with regard to you deserving a find. My personal view is that if to you, counting a find means having a log book in your hands, and you don't really care about the numbers I cannot fathom why you logged a find on this cache, or why you're waiting for the CO to delete your log. You have a good point. I guess I just wanted a record of a very challenging two day adventure. I'll send the reviewer the information and let him make the decision about this cache.

Nope, you don't deserve the find--you didn't find it. You get points for effort, but no Found It. I agree. So I guess my next step is contacting the reviewer about having this cache site removed. The owner has a long history of not being contactable.

You neither found the cache nor lived up to your own standards. As I said. I know this smiley will soon disappear and no longer be counted. This doesn't bother me cause I don't really care about the numbers. Sorry if the post offended you.

To me counting a find means having a log book in my hands. If my GPS says I am 0m away I do not trust it. My GPS could be off or the owner's GPS could have been off. I did log one cache that I didn't actually see and I would not complain if my claim was disallowed, but I think I deserve it. Check out my log for "Maid on the lake" GCX240 and see if you disagree. It is located on Vancouver Island.