Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 4
mellers

Am I missing the point...

Recommended Posts

I'm just checking something out, so please don't think I want to start deleting logs from heron in or anything, (that's a drastic route I'd rather not go down) but someone visited my earthcache recently and I'm not sure if they've missed the point of it completely - or if I'm over-thinking it. If you think the latter, please be gentle with me! ;) Opinions are welcome, but please be polite.

 

They went on the same day as a friend and have messaged me to say their friend (with a separate caching account) will be submitting answers on behalf of the both of them in due course.

 

Given that my Earthcache is one of the newer ones, which asks you to make your own observations, then draw conclusions given what you see to help you understand what you're seeing, I can't help but think that this visitor is missing the point. Incidentally, I have no guarantee that the actually did go there - except for the word of their friend, who would obviously back them up! So I don't what to question that to them.

 

Anyway, as instructed by my reviewer, I always write a personal message back to any visitor, thanking them for coming and correcting any wrongs answers if necessary. But I want to write back to this person saying what a shame it is that they didn't do any research themselves, nor make their own observations nor take advantage of the opportunity to understand a bit more about what it was they were seeing... but I don't know if that would be making too much of it and if I should just try to forget about it. It's nagging away at me at the moment and I need to get a wider perspective. I certainly can't bring myself to write a cheery 'thank you' message to them right now!

 

I wouldn't force them to send me the answers (after all what's to stop them simply copying and pasting their friend's answers anyway) but it's left me feeling rather deflated (especially given some of the lengths that I've gone too with visiting other people's earthcaches!). I can't help but think they just sat in the car while their friend went off to write a few things down, which doesn't seem to be entering in to the spirit of caching in general - and as I mentioned, seems to miss the point of Earthcaches in particular.

 

I wonder if this phenomenon is common... do other Earthcache COs experience the "my friend did my homework" sort of thing often? I'm new to having my own earthcache so I'd appreciate what experienced COs find is the case. If it is something which happens all the time, I'd probably feel a bit better about this log.

 

If you visited someone's earthcache, would you send a message to say "My answers are coming from someone else?"

Share this post


Link to post

This happens all the time. Some groups visit the site and one person sends answers for all of them. It's irritating to say the least but that is the way it is. These days I cannot even keep track of who is logging the caches and who is sending the answers as many folks delay their logging until weeks after the group find. It's pretty much open season on logging any kind of Virt.

Share this post


Link to post

Give yourself a couple days to cool off...and just LET IT GO.

 

There are a lot of 'questionable' situations that occur in this hobby no matter what type of caches they are. It's not a perfect world nor a perfect hobby. Each individual person plays by a different culture and those cultures don't coincide with your own - which can make it frustrating. You just gotta enjoy the hobby FOR YOU and not let others ruin the game by giving you high blood pressure.

Share this post


Link to post

Allow me to present the perspective of someone who does this type of logging. My partner and I enjoy doing EarthCaches and have logged over 300 of them. We will go to the site, read the questions, discuss the answers, draw our conclusions, take any photos we want, then head on to the next cache. When we get home, I submit the answers for the both of us. We have a deal - I answer the EarthCaches and he answers the Virtual caches. I think I got the short end of that stick, but that's a different matter. This in no may means that he didn't visit the site, or didn't get the same lesson from it that I did, but there doesn't seem to be much point in both of us sending in the same answers.

 

Sure, there will always be some cheaters out there that want to get away with doing as little as possible. It boils down to - it's a game and different people will play it different ways. Unless I am certain that someone is completely armchair logging a cache and has never visited the area, I pretty much leave anything else up to their sense of right and wrong in how they want to play the game.

Share this post


Link to post

Go ahead and write them the letter that you want to write .. then don't send it and move on. That is what I do and I find that it works out great.

Share this post


Link to post

That's a clever thought! Ide already written it in my head though and I like the idea of just letting it go now. If I put it down in black and white, I'll probably just wind myself up. It's kind of nice knowing I don't have to give the guy any more head space.

Share this post


Link to post

Please assume that they were very involved in the research and observations, as much or more than the one cacher assigned the relatively unimportant task of writing the actual submission. In particular, believe that they did, in fact, get the point perfectly, and the only thing they didn't do was bother you with multiple redundant e-mails providing the same answers from the same investigation.

 

It's possible that they are cheating, but why bother considering that unless you have some evidence that suggests it? What you've described doesn't suggest cheating at all.

 

I admit that I think everyone should send in the Earthcache answers because I find writing them up often forces me to a deeper understanding of what's being asked, but I don't think you as the owner should worry about that. I suppose you could make a case for that suggestion in your description, although it would probably be often overlooked.

Share this post


Link to post

One thing you might want to do is confirm that the two cachers actually seem to cache together. Otherwise, it would be very easy for Cacher A to sit at their computer and "find" all sorts of EarthCaches simply by looking at a cache's logs, noting the name of a cacher who found it on a particular day (e.g., Cacher X), logging a "Found It" on that same day for that same EarthCache, and email you an explanation that their friend (Cacher X) already has sent you "our" answers.

Share this post


Link to post

My Husband & I always do the earthcaches and virtuals together. We discuss the info at the cache site and write down our observations and answers to the questions. I am the one that does the emailing. I see it as senseless for me to send two identical emails to the cache owner but I have on a couple of occasions when the cache owner stated in their write up that they required each logger to send their own email or they would delete my find. So I copied the one email and then resent it again under his name. I personally will send the answers first and then log the cache after the email is sent. But I do log my caches first and then log my husband's so if we have found a lot of caches on that trip, it may take a few days.

 

On my own earthcaches, I do find it hard to sometimes keep track of who has logged and who has sent me the answers. Not everyone has access to the internet immediately after finding the cache and wait until they return from their vacation to log their caches. I try to keep a chart when someone logs the earthcache and who was in their group.

 

Hope that helps.

Share this post


Link to post

You could look at it this way. My wife and daughter and I cache under the same team name. If we visited your earthcache, we'd work out the answers together and send one email. If we chose to have three separate accounts, it wouldn't change anything except how many found it logs were on your cache, so sending three emails would be unnecessary.

Share this post


Link to post

Yes. You are missing the companionship aspect of EarthCaching. As many of five of us go on geocaching trips. We love EarthCaches! When we visit an EarthCache, we discuss the answers to the questions, and one of us submits the answers. Usually, we post separate photos. For instance, we did seven EarthCaches in Maritime Canada last year. No one complained about one cacher sending the answer for all five of us. Do you really want the same e-mail five times?

Share this post


Link to post

Agreeing with others here. My husband and I only send separate emails if we have a particular story we want to tell, or if we seriously disagree about the answer after discussing it between ourselves.

 

As much as I love reading logs, there really isn't usually much point in reading two or more nearly identical logs. If people made the visit together, they likely had much the same experience and drew their conclusions together.

Share this post


Link to post

Whether caching with a group or just with my husband (who has a separate account) we have always designated one person to send in the answers. Doesn't mean we don't make our own conclusions and observations. We usually discuss it together at the cache site. Depending on who is the most eager to log (meaning the quickest) or who takes the most detailed notes, that is usually who sends in the answers. I don't see how it's any different than group work in school. Get together, discuss the issue, come to conclusions, present group answer as one. I understand folks might take issue, but we've never had anyone say anything to us. Of course, maybe they wrote their letter, felt better and never emailed us. :D

Share this post


Link to post

I tried to monitor my earthcache find logs with the answers I receive. If If I have a find log with out answers I try to follow it as as I regard earthcaches as special not not simple virtuals. If i receive answers that are incorrect, i took the view that an earthcache log is not a degree in geology and so long as the person has been at the cache location and had a go at answering the questions I let them log and send them the correct answers though it is worrying how many cachers can not tell granite from limestone even thought the hint should tell them.

 

 

Agreeing with others here. My husband and I only send separate emails if we have a particular story we want to tell, or if we seriously disagree about the answer after discussing it between ourselves.

 

As much as I love reading logs, there really isn't usually much point in reading two or more nearly identical logs. If people made the visit together, they likely had much the same experience and drew their conclusions together.

Share this post


Link to post

I'd tend to agree with the others and say that if it's fairly obvious that it's a group that caches together regularly, then it's safe to assume they all visited the site together at the very least, even if they didn't all do the research individually. They're all bound to have learned something about the location in any case. I guess CanadianRockies' scenario could happen (claiming that another random cacher sent "our" answers in), but I would think those would be the exception and could probably be weeded out pretty easily.

 

I think it's not unlike the old dilemma of the tree climbing cache....if 4 caching partners visit the site together, do they ALL have to climb the tree to claim the find, or can one retrieve the cache and toss it down for everyone to sign? There are opinions on both sides of the argument. I don't think it's worth losing any sleep over in any case....unless there's some evidence that the log was completely bogus, I wouldn't worry about it.

Share this post


Link to post

Well here is my thoughts. If a group of caches head out together to cache what are you expecting them to do? Are they supposed to stand there and quietly ponder the answers or given that they are caching together do you expect that they are likely to talk to each other trying to figure it out? If they talk to one another generally speaking I would assume that they would arrive at the same final conclusion.

 

I think that you should expect that they will have the same answers and given that, it seems likely that someone will mention that they will send in answers for the group. As a group they learned the lesson that you presented.

 

This happens nearly every time in my group of friends. On top of that I am usually asked to check or further explain a topic if someone has a question. I would hope that the cache owner wouldn't mind, the point is to learn something about geology and if I am having to clarify or help on site I know that one of my friends "got it".

Share this post


Link to post

If your concern is that someone didn't do any research in a group setting there isn't much you can/should do, but if your concern is that the person didn't actually attend the cache, add a pictoral requirement.

Share this post


Link to post

If your concern is that someone didn't do any research in a group setting there isn't much you can/should do, but if your concern is that the person didn't actually attend the cache, add a pictoral requirement.

Keeping in mind, of course, that just requiring a photo has been against the earthcache guidelines for years now -- it has to be connected to measurement or correct identification of a feature or something more specific than "stand here with your GPSr."

Share this post


Link to post

I write my answer for every earthcache I visit, but it does not bother me if I get a single email for a group that has visited one of my earthcaches. In some respects, I prefer it when people do it that way.

 

Whenever I am at an earthcache with caching friends or my noncaching family, we discuss the questions. Sometimes I note in my email that my wife and I disagreed, but generally we work together to arrive at the answers I send. Therefore, I like to believe that a single answer from a group reflects discussion and a group learning process.

 

My daughters' school had an academy that emphasized group learning, so perhaps I got used to the value of that as an educational tool. Although I do not consider an earthcache to be a "test," I also once had a calculus professor who told us that since we studied together, we should feel free to take the final together. In this context, I would say that since a group worked together on the earthcache, then they should feel free to send their logging answers together.

Share this post


Link to post

I write my answer for every earthcache I visit, but it does not bother me if I get a single email for a group that has visited one of my earthcaches. In some respects, I prefer it when people do it that way.

 

I agree. With over 400 cache listings, 53 of which are earthcaches, I get enough emails without having a group of half a dozen cachers that did an earthcache together sending me half a dozen of exactly the same email, so I'm fine with a group nominating one person to send the answers. Generally I will recognise the username when a log comes through, but if not, all I need to do is copy and paste it to the search bar in my email and I know if answers were sent by or on behalf of them.

Share this post


Link to post

Curious. I usually cache with friends and relatives. On EarthCaches and virtuals, I am usually elected to send answers for all of us (varies from two to five). (I have found 77 EarthCaches so far.)

Was checking a recent find and noticed that the CO added a note:

If you want to log this smiley as an individual, you must submit you own answers, not let someone else do it for you. Even if you visited the cache together. This is not negotiable. ANY log that does not submit answers to me will be deleted.

It certainly does not say that anywhere on the cache page. And still does not. It's a note.

I do not know if this is supposed to apply to us, since she did not send any of us an e-mail. And we seldom check back on cache pages.

If so, the other two cachers will copy my e-mail!

 

So, my question is whether this is permitted under the rules/guidelines?

Share this post


Link to post

So, my question is whether this is permitted under the rules/guidelines?

 

There's nothing in the Guidelines or the Help Center that requires a cache owner to accept a "bulk" answer for a group of cachers, although I suspect most EC owners do, in order to cut down the load on their Inbox ;)

Share this post


Link to post

My husband and I always submit separate emails and I expect finders to do the same. This is noted on my cache pages and has never been an issue.

Share this post


Link to post

I would agree w/the majority of the group. IMHO “Common Sense” would dictate 1 submittal of the answers for a group would be sufficient. It does lessen the number of emails in ones incoming mailbox, and eliminate redundancy. When in a group usually the cacher designated for submitting the answers is identified in the logs of those involved. As both a participant and a CO, I have never had this raised as an issue. There are occasions, when someone will give a “Guided Tour”, if you will, of their EC, usually as an Event, and it is stressed not to submit the answers for this situation.

Share this post


Link to post

Mod hat off.

 

I find myself agreeing with everyone.

 

I have a few EarthCaches that get visited by large groups of people. The tour guide usually give me a heads-up when they have an event scheduled, and they tell everyone they don't have to log it separately. They make sure everyone "gets" the lesson for the EarthCache. I'm grateful not to get 40 logs that all say "Visited as part of the Spring 2014 tour by cacher ABC, It's X because Y"

I still get a few logs from individuals, and I don't mind in the least; I know for some cachers the logs are their journal.

 

On the other hand, my husband and I have visited EarthCaches where the owner asks for separate logs. Even though we visited together, did the learning activity together, and discussed the answer together we still send separate logs. We even make an effort to have the logs be slightly different, just so the owner will enjoy reading two logs from one couple. I think it's respectful to the owner to log the EarthCache the way they request.

Edited by Neos2
speeling

Share this post


Link to post

I would agree w/the majority of the group. IMHO “Common Sense” would dictate 1 submittal of the answers for a group would be sufficient. It does lessen the number of emails in ones incoming mailbox, and eliminate redundancy. When in a group usually the cacher designated for submitting the answers is identified in the logs of those involved. As both a participant and a CO, I have never had this raised as an issue. There are occasions, when someone will give a “Guided Tour”, if you will, of their EC, usually as an Event, and it is stressed not to submit the answers for this situation.

 

And to NEOS2: Then it is permissible to require each EarthCache finder to send the CO an e-mail, or the logged find can be deleted? If so, should this not be on the cache page, rather than posted as a note? And do those who posted before the note avoid this unlisted problem? (Since it is not listed on the cache page. And was not listed when the e-mail was sent.)

Share this post


Link to post

Then it is permissible to require each EarthCache finder to send the CO an e-mail, or the logged find can be deleted?

 

Yes.

 

If so, should this not be on the cache page, rather than posted as a note?

 

There's no requirement to state this on the Listing. The fall back assumption, unless otherwise stated in the Description, is that every one that posts a Find should send an email with the answers.

 

Since there's a great deal of angst and derision at "unwritten Guidelines" I'm kind of surprised at the question.

Share this post


Link to post

Too many replies to got back to and read all :-(

Question as per E.C. logging requirements:

 

"1. People do not need to wait for permission to log your EarthCache. = (fine with me)

Requiring someone to wait is not supported by the EarthCache guidelines. = OK

People should send their logging task answers to you, then log your EarthCache. = Answers then log???

When you review their logging task answers, if there is a problem, you should contact them to resolve it. = OK with me too.

If there is no problem, then their log simply stands./"

 

~ What am I missing here?

1. I keep getting "Found" but no answers.

2. I keep getting "Found" with "Will send later" (Never arrives)

3. - I write everyone asking for them to submit their answers (most don't some do) = I DELETE...

 

4. WHY shouldn't we be allowed to ask for everyone to submit their answers while or before logging? Even get some claiming their GPS doesn't show or have the questions. (I usually ask how they managed to solve their multis or mystery caches)

Share this post


Link to post

4. WHY shouldn't we be allowed to ask for everyone to submit their answers while or before logging? Even get some claiming their GPS doesn't show or have the questions. (I usually ask how they managed to solve their multis or mystery caches)

 

While I think it's nice to give people a grace period, after a couple of days it's reasonable to delete the log if they haven't sent answers. You shouldn't have to chase people down.

 

If someone couldn't do the logging task because they didn't arrive to the site prepared, they are out of luck as far as I'm concerned. Earthcaches sometimes require advance preparation. If your GPS truncates long cache pages or some such nonsense, too bad. Print out the page beforehand.

Share this post


Link to post

On the other hand, my husband and I have visited EarthCaches where the owner asks for separate logs. Even though we visited together, did the learning activity together, and discussed the answer together we still send separate logs.

 

We visit earthcaches and share a joint account. In that instance we assume the EC owner does not want an email from each member of the joint account (In our case up to four).

 

That means that owners (or is it finders) want/provide answers from each Groundspeak account that finds the earthcache.

 

Fair enough, but in light of the "shared account" vs a "group visit" is multiple (same) answer emails really achieveing anything tangible for the Earthcache owner?

 

Especially, considering they all should be writing a found log per account?

Share this post


Link to post

Fair enough, but in light of the "shared account" vs a "group visit" is multiple (same) answer emails really achieveing anything tangible for the Earthcache owner?

 

How you choose to operate your geocaching account is not relevant or interesting to me as a cache owner.

 

How you choose to go geocaching (i.e. as a group or as an individual) is not relevant or interesting to me as a cache owner.

 

I expect to receive a unique email from each account that wishes to "find" my Earthcache. I don't want a life story, and I don't care about who was or was not with you at the site. I don't want to keep track of who was part of your group. I want one email per find log.

Share this post


Link to post

Fair enough, but in light of the "shared account" vs a "group visit" is multiple (same) answer emails really achieveing anything tangible for the Earthcache owner?

 

How you choose to operate your geocaching account is not relevant or interesting to me as a cache owner.

 

How you choose to go geocaching (i.e. as a group or as an individual) is not relevant or interesting to me as a cache owner.

 

I expect to receive a unique email from each account that wishes to "find" my Earthcache. I don't want a life story, and I don't care about who was or was not with you at the site. I don't want to keep track of who was part of your group. I want one email per find log.

Remember as a cacher each of us choses what ECs we want to spend time on, and those we don't...

Share this post


Link to post

Remember as a cacher each of us choses what ECs we want to spend time on, and those we don't...

 

Yep. The great thing about it is that you can read any cache page in advance and decide whether or not that cache is for you.

Share this post


Link to post

4. WHY shouldn't we be allowed to ask for everyone to submit their answers while or before logging? Even get some claiming their GPS doesn't show or have the questions. (I usually ask how they managed to solve their multis or mystery caches)

 

While I think it's nice to give people a grace period, after a couple of days it's reasonable to delete the log if they haven't sent answers. You shouldn't have to chase people down.

 

If someone couldn't do the logging task because they didn't arrive to the site prepared, they are out of luck as far as I'm concerned. Earthcaches sometimes require advance preparation. If your GPS truncates long cache pages or some such nonsense, too bad. Print out the page beforehand.

 

My point is that for most EarthCaches we find, one person supplies the answers for all in the group. 77 EarthCaches later, this is the first that I have heard of a CO demanding this. Most cache owners are happy with this. And it was not put on the cache page, nor e-mailed to any of the geocachers. It is a note on the cache page. As a note, it will disappear quickly from the log list.

As I said: if she requires us to submit separate e-mails the other two will submit the exact e-mails that I sent. And then, she will go on our Ignore List. If she had noted on the cache page that this was required, it would have been done.

But, as noted on this thread, most EarthCache owners are very happy with one supplying the information. That seems to be the standard.

But there are some EarthCache owners who seem to be power hungry. Like the infamous bannanated one. Thanks, I do not need that. I cache for fun, not to tickle your bizarre fancies.

Oh, well.

Share this post


Link to post

4. WHY shouldn't we be allowed to ask for everyone to submit their answers while or before logging? Even get some claiming their GPS doesn't show or have the questions. (I usually ask how they managed to solve their multis or mystery caches)

 

While I think it's nice to give people a grace period, after a couple of days it's reasonable to delete the log if they haven't sent answers. You shouldn't have to chase people down.

 

If someone couldn't do the logging task because they didn't arrive to the site prepared, they are out of luck as far as I'm concerned. Earthcaches sometimes require advance preparation. If your GPS truncates long cache pages or some such nonsense, too bad. Print out the page beforehand.

 

My point is that for most EarthCaches we find, one person supplies the answers for all in the group. 77 EarthCaches later, this is the first that I have heard of a CO demanding this. Most cache owners are happy with this. And it was not put on the cache page, nor e-mailed to any of the geocachers. It is a note on the cache page. As a note, it will disappear quickly from the log list.

As I said: if she requires us to submit separate e-mails the other two will submit the exact e-mails that I sent. And then, she will go on our Ignore List. If she had noted on the cache page that this was required, it would have been done.

But, as noted on this thread, most EarthCache owners are very happy with one supplying the information. That seems to be the standard.

But there are some EarthCache owners who seem to be power hungry. Like the infamous bannanated one. Thanks, I do not need that. I cache for fun, not to tickle your bizarre fancies.

Oh, well.

 

The reason I ask for separate answers is so I can easily line up the found it logs, and the answer emails. If that sets the bar a little too high for lower caliber geocachers, that's okay by me.

Share this post


Link to post

Well... we'd prefer to get emails per account name logging, but group logs are ok, as long as they're kind of organized. It gets a bit annoying if Cacherfan1 submits answers for his friends Peter, Mary and Paul but doesn't mentioned their GS handles, or he forgets to mention his friends altogether. The best: it was decided Ross writes an email and never does. So we send reminders out to Ross, Dough, Frank, Simon and Raza, not knowing they cached together and get replies from most of them that the answer should be there all along, and no reply from Ross. Oh well... it's like the maintenance for a normal cache: sometimes it's a bit more work, sometimes it isn't.

Share this post


Link to post

Well... we'd prefer to get emails per account name logging, but group logs are ok, as long as they're kind of organized. It gets a bit annoying if Cacherfan1 submits answers for his friends Peter, Mary and Paul but doesn't mentioned their GS handles, or he forgets to mention his friends altogether. The best: it was decided Ross writes an email and never does. So we send reminders out to Ross, Dough, Frank, Simon and Raza, not knowing they cached together and get replies from most of them that the answer should be there all along, and no reply from Ross. Oh well... it's like the maintenance for a normal cache: sometimes it's a bit more work, sometimes it isn't.

 

That's just it - it gets silly with these multiple groups, and sometimes people do drop the ball (or the scrap of paper their responses were on). Best practice is to submit your responses either immediately before or after logging the Earthcache. I have no problem giving people a bit of a grace period if they're inclined to log quickly and catch up on paperwork after, but I am not going to chase after people or try to keep track of who was and was not present. I can't force people to learn something at an Earthcache, but I do expect a bare minimum of effort for the find log.

 

Some people just aren't interested in Earthcaches, and that's fine. Nobody is required to do participate.

Share this post


Link to post

Even get some claiming their GPS doesn't show or have the questions. (I usually ask how they managed to solve their multis or mystery caches)

 

I've had my GPSr cut off earthcache descriptions before; this one, for example, displayed all of the French description but only part of the English description before our Oregon cut it off.

 

When I saw that, I changed our earthcaches so that the hint repeated the questions, unencrypted. (I wasn't using it for a hint anyway, so no loss.) So far, no one has ever claimed that the GPSr cut off the description. I wish more folks would adopt this -- it's decidedly more convenient for the finder to have them handy.

Share this post


Link to post

Even get some claiming their GPS doesn't show or have the questions. (I usually ask how they managed to solve their multis or mystery caches)

 

I've had my GPSr cut off earthcache descriptions before; this one, for example, displayed all of the French description but only part of the English description before our Oregon cut it off.

 

When I saw that, I changed our earthcaches so that the hint repeated the questions, unencrypted. (I wasn't using it for a hint anyway, so no loss.) So far, no one has ever claimed that the GPSr cut off the description. I wish more folks would adopt this -- it's decidedly more convenient for the finder to have them handy.

 

That's a great idea!

Share this post


Link to post

If the questions are being cut off the bottom on some devices, then by moving the questions to the top, something else is going to be cut off. It would have to be some of the explanation. If the purpose of an EC is to impart an earth science lesson, cutting off part of the explantion means they are only going to get part of the lesson.

Putting the questions in the hint might work on many EC's. But some of the questions can involve part of the explanation: "Select a sample from Area A in Photo 3. Does the sample look more like Fig.1, Fig 2. or Fig 3.?" If any photos or figures are cut off, then the cacher is still out of luck.

For me, there is just no substitute for reading the whole page prior to visiting an EC. If you want to spontaneously stop at an EC you are driving past, then you'll just have to take a chance.

Share this post


Link to post

If the questions are being cut off the bottom on some devices, then by moving the questions to the top, something else is going to be cut off. It would have to be some of the explanation. If the purpose of an EC is to impart an earth science lesson, cutting off part of the explantion means they are only going to get part of the lesson.

Putting the questions in the hint might work on many EC's. But some of the questions can involve part of the explanation: "Select a sample from Area A in Photo 3. Does the sample look more like Fig.1, Fig 2. or Fig 3.?" If any photos or figures are cut off, then the cacher is still out of luck.

For me, there is just no substitute for reading the whole page prior to visiting an EC. If you want to spontaneously stop at an EC you are driving past, then you'll just have to take a chance.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with everything you are saying, but putting the answers in the hint makes them easy to reference when you're at the site, and I think there is value in that. Just a little courtesy to the people who have read the cache page and trekked out with a 5 gallon bucket, a measuring tape, and a geiger counter.

Share this post


Link to post

"Select a sample from Area A in Photo 3. Does the sample look more like Fig.1, Fig 2. or Fig 3.?" If any photos or figures are cut off, then the cacher is still out of luck.

I didn't know that GPSr machines could render photos. Which models do that?

Share this post


Link to post

mellers: If your GPSr does not display the photos or diagrams from the cache page, then placing the questions in the Hint wouldn't help much anyway. In cases like this, at least.

 

narcissa: It would indeed be a courtesy to place the questions in the Hint for those who have read the page and schlepped the required tools to the site. But how much info can go into a Hint? And how much will be displayed on your GPSr? This is a question from a nearby EC:

"Earthcache Logging Requirement 2a: At the first location, measure the compass bearings of the two joint sets. One joint set runs uphill toward the cliff - call this Set A. The other set runs uphill away from the cliff - call this Set B. You need to subtract 10° from each number to account for magnetic declination. Report these values as a number between 0° and 180°." This is only one of 3-4 tasks required for this EC. Does the Hint have enough room for everything? Does a shorthand version of this (2A. Measure bearings of joint sets) convey enough info to correctly do the task?

 

I don't have a fancy GPSr that displays the cache page (or hints), so none of this helps me anyway. Maybe this is why I am resisting making it "easier" for some cachers. I really have to read and understand all before I go.

Also, isn't there a function on some GPSr's called Field Notes or similar? After downloading the EC, couldn't the cacher add the questions to this function for reference in the field?

Share this post


Link to post

If the questions are being cut off the bottom on some devices, then by moving the questions to the top, something else is going to be cut off. It would have to be some of the explanation. If the purpose of an EC is to impart an earth science lesson, cutting off part of the explantion means they are only going to get part of the lesson.

Putting the questions in the hint might work on many EC's. But some of the questions can involve part of the explanation: "Select a sample from Area A in Photo 3. Does the sample look more like Fig.1, Fig 2. or Fig 3.?" If any photos or figures are cut off, then the cacher is still out of luck.

For me, there is just no substitute for reading the whole page prior to visiting an EC. If you want to spontaneously stop at an EC you are driving past, then you'll just have to take a chance.

Sure, and I'm not proposing it as the perfect solution to all caching problems. I also agree that there's no substitute for doing your homework ahead of time. There have been a couple times I've not prepared for an EC ahead of time and been unable to complete the logging tasks. When that's happened, I've blamed no one but myself for not being better prepared, and I've not tried to put the onus on the CO to let my crappy answers qualify as a find.

Share this post


Link to post

I don't have a fancy GPSr that displays the cache page (or hints), so none of this helps me anyway. Maybe this is why I am resisting making it "easier" for some cachers.

 

You must resist a lot of site features then. :blink:

Share this post


Link to post

Even get some claiming their GPS doesn't show or have the questions. (I usually ask how they managed to solve their multis or mystery caches)

 

I've had my GPSr cut off earthcache descriptions before; this one, for example, displayed all of the French description but only part of the English description before our Oregon cut it off.

 

When I saw that, I changed our earthcaches so that the hint repeated the questions, unencrypted. (I wasn't using it for a hint anyway, so no loss.) So far, no one has ever claimed that the GPSr cut off the description. I wish more folks would adopt this -- it's decidedly more convenient for the finder to have them handy.

 

The question was not: how to make it easier for geocachers. The question was can a CO demand that each cacher send his/her own comments, without mentioning that on the cache page. Opinions here seem to vary. Some say: Of course not. We work together and have one answer. Others say: Of course. Everyone had to send their answer. My GPS/GSAK is set up to list the entire page. Photos are not included on an eTrex 30.

The CO in question has not e-mailed the other two finders to demand each e-mail the answers. So, perhaps, they are okay. But she put the warning as a note, not on the cache page...

Share this post


Link to post

Even get some claiming their GPS doesn't show or have the questions. (I usually ask how they managed to solve their multis or mystery caches)

 

I've had my GPSr cut off earthcache descriptions before; this one, for example, displayed all of the French description but only part of the English description before our Oregon cut it off.

 

When I saw that, I changed our earthcaches so that the hint repeated the questions, unencrypted. (I wasn't using it for a hint anyway, so no loss.) So far, no one has ever claimed that the GPSr cut off the description. I wish more folks would adopt this -- it's decidedly more convenient for the finder to have them handy.

 

The question was not: how to make it easier for geocachers. The question was...

Yes, Harry, and like most conversations on this site, the discussion drifted onto another point. It happens. I've seen you do it. Life goes on.

Share this post


Link to post

The question was not: how to make it easier for geocachers. The question was can a CO demand that each cacher send his/her own comments, without mentioning that on the cache page. Opinions here seem to vary. Some say: Of course not. We work together and have one answer. Others say: Of course. Everyone had to send their answer. My GPS/GSAK is set up to list the entire page. Photos are not included on an eTrex 30.

The CO in question has not e-mailed the other two finders to demand each e-mail the answers. So, perhaps, they are okay. But she put the warning as a note, not on the cache page...

 

That sort of thing should always be on the cache page.

Share this post


Link to post

I always send my own answers for any earthcache or virtual and would expect each member of my group to do the same.

 

Why, if I can take the time to log my find, is it too hard to contact the CO?

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 4

×
×
  • Create New...