+xipotec Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I am wondering about the following rule. II.4 Geocaches do not solicit for any purpose. Cache listings perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is intended to be an enjoyable, family-friendly hobby, not a platform for an agenda. Cache pages cannot require, and should not strongly encourage, the placement of new caches. This is considered an agenda and the listing will not be publishable. We have discovered many religious promotions materials left in caches, called tracts here in the south. Do these break the rules? Or is it OK for people to leave these in a cache so long as the cache does not promote it? Just curious the differences between leaving this or a business card? We have seen both quite a bit. Quote Link to comment
+Gitchee-Gummee Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 (edited) Difference: Caches vs SWAG. The rule (guideline) applies to caches (the cache page and info), NOT to SWAG placed therein. Notice the guideline info you diligently copied does not address SWAG, only caches themselves. Edited March 19, 2013 by Gitchee-Gummee Quote Link to comment
+cerberus1 Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 If a cache, it's against the guidelines as an agenda. If swag, it's just swag. - What kind of feature discussion/suggetion were you intending? Quote Link to comment
+BruceS Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Not a feature or suggestion. Moving to general Geocaching Topics. Quote Link to comment
+xipotec Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Difference: Caches vs SWAG. The rule (guideline) applies to caches (the cache page and info), NOT to SWAG placed therein. Notice the guideline info you diligently copied does not address SWAG, only caches themselves. Yup pretty much why i copied it....for clarification. Because I only see a few things not to put in a cache not real rules for SWAG..... Found money the other day on one...which I thought odd too. Just the following. People of all ages hide and seek geocaches, so think carefully before placing an item into a cache. Explosives, ammunition, knives, drugs and alcohol should not be placed in a cache. Respect local laws at all times. Please do not put food or heavily scented items in a cache. Animals have better noses than humans, and in some cases caches have been chewed through and destroyed because of food items in a cache. I mean most of that is common sense...My friend said he has found Neo-Nazi type literature in them before..... Quote Link to comment
+Sharks-N-Beans Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I mean most of that is common sense...My friend said he has found Neo-Nazi type literature in them before..... It's swag. I have traded what I thought some things like this were worth. Quote Link to comment
+the4dirtydogs Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I've found porn magazines in a cache before. I'm sure most of us have found things in caches that don't belong. If I see item in a cache that might be questional, I just remove the item and throw it away. Quote Link to comment
+StarBrand Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I've found porn magazines in a cache before. I'm sure most of us have found things in caches that don't belong. If I see item in a cache that might be questional, I just remove the item and throw it away. .....of course you actually mean that you "trade" it out of the cache for something else and then throw it away. Quote Link to comment
+the4dirtydogs Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I've found porn magazines in a cache before. I'm sure most of us have found things in caches that don't belong. If I see item in a cache that might be questional, I just remove the item and throw it away. .....of course you actually mean that you "trade" it out of the cache for something else and then throw it away. Of course, I would NEVER take anything without trading up. Quote Link to comment
+xipotec Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 not hard to trade up for some things though I guess... Quote Link to comment
AZcachemeister Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 not hard to trade up for some things though I guess... Exactly. Some things are worth much less than the fresh air you let into the container when you opened it. Quote Link to comment
+GeoTrekker26 Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I am wondering about the following rule. II.4 Geocaches do not solicit for any purpose. Cache listings perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is intended to be an enjoyable, family-friendly hobby, not a platform for an agenda. Cache pages cannot require, and should not strongly encourage, the placement of new caches. This is considered an agenda and the listing will not be publishable. We have discovered many religious promotions materials left in caches, called tracts here in the south. Do these break the rules? Or is it OK for people to leave these in a cache so long as the cache does not promote it? Just curious the differences between leaving this or a business card? We have seen both quite a bit. Also note in II.3 Geocache containers include a logsheet or logbook. For all physical caches, there must be a logbook, scroll or other type of log for geocachers to record their visit. There is no requirement to supply a pen. In fact I would say far less than 10% of my finds have contained a pen or pencil. Every geocacher should carry a pen or pencil at all times while caching so the log can be signed. Only then can a found log entry be created on the website. Quote Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Trade up, trade even, or not at all. Quote Link to comment
+wimseyguy Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Is this where I am supposed to make a gratuitous comment about sweet potato tracts? Quote Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Is this where I am supposed to make a gratuitous comment about sweet potato tracts? I still have a few on hand that I place when the potato is ripe. Quote Link to comment
+tozainamboku Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Every geocacher should carry a pen or pencil at all times while caching so the log can be signed. Only then can a found log entry be created on the website. I always remove puritan literature from geocaches. (Only wish there was a way to prevent it from cluttering up the forums). Quote Link to comment
+OHail Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 <snip> There is no requirement to supply a pen. In fact I would say far less than 10% of my finds have contained a pen or pencil. Every geocacher should carry a pen or pencil at all times while caching so the log can be signed. Only then can a found log entry be created on the website. I will add that it is a good idea to carry at least one pen while caching even when the page says there is a writing implement in it. They quit working or go missing. Quote Link to comment
4wheelin_fool Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Every geocacher should carry a pen or pencil at all times while caching so the log can be signed. Only then can a found log entry be created on the website. I always remove puritan literature from geocaches. (Only wish there was a way to prevent it from cluttering up the forums). So, I'm guessing that GeoTekker26 read a few of the OPs logs in which he didn't sign the logbook, and toz tears up logsheets as being "puritan literature". Quote Link to comment
+Manville Possum Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Found money the other day on one...which I thought odd too. Did it have "In God we trust" written on it? Quote Link to comment
team tisri Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Trade up, trade even, or not at all. If an item is inappropriate I remove it even if I don't have something to trade for it. I trade up or even if it's something I want, if it's something like a knife or food I'll take it and chuck it in the nearest bin I find. Quote Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Trade up, trade even, or not at all. If an item is inappropriate I remove it even if I don't have something to trade for it. Then you traded even if you considered the item worthless. Quote Link to comment
+NYPaddleCacher Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Every geocacher should carry a pen or pencil at all times while caching so the log can be signed. Only then can a found log entry be created on the website. I always remove puritan literature from geocaches. (Only wish there was a way to prevent it from cluttering up the forums). +1 I have on more than a few occasions received a polite PM from a cacher that said that they had found one of my caches and for some reason didn't sign the log sheet. Usually they offered to send me a photo of the container, and in every case I told them not to bother and go ahead and post a found it log. Quote Link to comment
nonaeroterraqueous Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 ...if it's something like a knife or food I'll take it and chuck it in the nearest bin I find. You would waste a good knife, would you? Quote Link to comment
+xipotec Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 I do post pictures of my finds , almost always. I find that to be the fun part. Just takes some time ....when i can upload them. Ordered a few stamps today to curb my penless bad habit. Quote Link to comment
+The_Incredibles_ Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Trade up, trade even, or not at all. Garbage removal is not the same as trading. Quote Link to comment
Clan Riffster Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Trade up, trade even, or not at all. Garbage removal is not the same as trading. "Took Neo-Nazi literature. Left a breath of fresh air" Sounds like trading up to me? Quote Link to comment
+Maingray Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Took McToy, left good karma. Quote Link to comment
+The_Incredibles_ Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Took McToy, left good karma. I purposefully FILL my caches with McToys. LOL we have alot. I hope nobody thinks to remove them. My kids like them! Quote Link to comment
+wimseyguy Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Then why not just leave them at home for your kids instead of spreading them about in caches for other kids to find? I keed, I keed. Quote Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Trade up, trade even, or not at all. Garbage removal is not the same as trading. Well thank goodness you know what matters in the random crap left in a cache. Quote Link to comment
+StarBrand Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Trade up, trade even, or not at all. Garbage removal is not the same as trading. So you would rather the cache be empty than leave something in exchange for what you trash out?? Just because you see it as trash doesn't mean everybody else would. Quote Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 No, you can move out any item you wish provided you trade even or up. You might decide that it's worth nothing especially if it's political or religious. This whole. I think it's garbage doesn't really impress me. Quote Link to comment
+The_Incredibles_ Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Trade up, trade even, or not at all. Garbage removal is not the same as trading. So you would rather the cache be empty than leave something in exchange for what you trash out?? Just because you see it as trash doesn't mean everybody else would. If there's any question as to whether it's trash or not, I would leave it in. Quote Link to comment
+The_Incredibles_ Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 No, you can move out any item you wish provided you trade even or up. You might decide that it's worth nothing especially if it's political or religious. This whole. I think it's garbage doesn't really impress me. What, so for every gum wrapper, rock, or porn DVD I remove from a cache, I should put something in? Garbage is garbage. Quote Link to comment
nonaeroterraqueous Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Just because you see it as trash doesn't mean everybody else would. While I suppose it's safe to assume that any object might be wanted by someone somewhere in the world, there are, actually, left in caches quite a number of items that only a fairly insane person could want. Though the thread is titled after religious tracts and promotions, which very few people, even the adherents of those movements, would want, we might have drifted into other subjects. It's hard to define trash, objectively, so we might do better to afford others the freedom to use their best judgement. Even trash removal takes a little concern and effort on the part of the cacher. Quote Link to comment
+StarBrand Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 No, you can move out any item you wish provided you trade even or up. You might decide that it's worth nothing especially if it's political or religious. This whole. I think it's garbage doesn't really impress me. What, so for every gum wrapper, rock, or porn DVD I remove from a cache, I should put something in? Garbage is garbage. I was speaking of trashing things out in the context of this thread not necessarily the things you list - however, even if it was a rock, I would leave better then I found before rehiding the cache. Just me maybe. Quote Link to comment
GrandPotentate Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I am considering creating a cache and calling it "A moment of Zen". It will be in the very back of a county park near a bench that over looks the river. Because of the terrain, this area of the park does not get much foot traffic. Inside the cache I want to put different pieces of origami with Zen saying, haiku's, tonka's, and other meditations that the cache can take a minute to and ignore the outside world. Do you guys think this would be too promoting of a religion? As a side note, I am not Buddhist. Quote Link to comment
4wheelin_fool Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 (edited) I am considering creating a cache and calling it "A moment of Zen". It will be in the very back of a county park near a bench that over looks the river. Because of the terrain, this area of the park does not get much foot traffic. Inside the cache I want to put different pieces of origami with Zen saying, haiku's, tonka's, and other meditations that the cache can take a minute to and ignore the outside world. Do you guys think this would be too promoting of a religion? As a side note, I am not Buddhist. Buddhism is not a religion. Buddhism can be described as a way of life, or a philosophy of living. Buddhism is a practice of contemplation and inquiry that doesn't depend on belief in God or a soul or anything supernatural. Therefore, the theory goes, it can't be a religion. [it is neither a religion in the sense in which that word is commonly understood, for it is not "a system of faith and worship owing any allegiance to a supernatural being." Buddhism does not demand blind faith from its adherents. Here mere belief is dethroned and is substituted by confidence based on knowledge, which, in Pali, is known as saddha. The confidence placed by a follower on the Buddha is like that of a sick person in a noted physician, or a student in his teacher. A Buddhist seeks refuge in the Buddha because it was he who discovered the path of deliverance. A Buddhist does not seek refuge in the Buddha with the hope that he will be saved by his (i.e. the Buddha's own) personal purification. The Buddha gives no such guarantee. It is not within the power of a Buddha to wash away the impurities of others. One could neither purify nor defile another. The Buddha, as teacher, instructs us, but we ourselves are directly responsible for our purification. Although a Buddhist seeks refuge in the Buddha, he does not make any self-surrender. Nor does a Buddhist sacrifice his freedom of thought by becoming a follower of the Buddha. He can exercise his own free will and develop his knowledge even to the extent of becoming a Buddha himself. http://www.buddhanet.net/nutshell03.htm If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him. "Killing the Buddha" is from a Zen saying, It can interpreted as a warning against turning the Buddha into a "religious fetish" and thereby missing the essence of what he taught. Edited March 22, 2013 by 4wheelin_fool Quote Link to comment
+K13 Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I am considering creating a cache and calling it "A moment of Zen". It will be in the very back of a county park near a bench that over looks the river. Because of the terrain, this area of the park does not get much foot traffic. Inside the cache I want to put different pieces of origami with Zen saying, haiku's, tonka's, and other meditations that the cache can take a minute to and ignore the outside world. Do you guys think this would be too promoting of a religion? As a side note, I am not Buddhist. I would look at the guidelines which prohibit "promoting an agenda". If they allow your zin buddist listing, then they will have to allow another's muhammed or Christ promoting listing. Quote Link to comment
+terrkan78 Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I am considering creating a cache and calling it "A moment of Zen". It will be in the very back of a county park near a bench that over looks the river. Because of the terrain, this area of the park does not get much foot traffic. Inside the cache I want to put different pieces of origami with Zen saying, haiku's, tonka's, and other meditations that the cache can take a minute to and ignore the outside world. Do you guys think this would be too promoting of a religion? As a side note, I am not Buddhist. I would look at the guidelines which prohibit "promoting an agenda". If they allow your zin buddist listing, then they will have to allow another's muhammed or Christ promoting listing. I would interpret "A moment of Zen" to refer to a moment of contemplation in quiet solitude/introspection, rather than having religious connotations (although "Zen" could certainly have religious connotations). It probably depends on whether the reviewer reads it the way I see it, or reads it otherwise. As long as the listing is worded carefully, it seems to me that it could fly. The swag can be whatever you want - but I'd be careful with what I said about the swag on the cache listing (I'd probably not mention what I intended to use as swag, just to be safe). I like places of quiet solitude, and I'd be intrigued by a cache full of origami (well, unless it was soaking wet) Quote Link to comment
Mr.Yuck Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I did, twice I believe, remove a couple religious tracts from my caches during maintenance visits. Of course that was long before I placed a cache on a semi-rural Church's nature trail, which I put religious tracts for that Church inside. I would think in that particular case, no one is going to remove them. Technically, I guess you could say they are information pamphlets. And you'll never guess in a million years which forum participant helped me do it. Without looking at hides in my profile, I mean. Quote Link to comment
+wimseyguy Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I am considering creating a cache and calling it "A moment of Zen". It will be in the very back of a county park near a bench that over looks the river. Because of the terrain, this area of the park does not get much foot traffic. Inside the cache I want to put different pieces of origami with Zen saying, haiku's, tonka's, and other meditations that the cache can take a minute to and ignore the outside world. Do you guys think this would be too promoting of a religion? As a side note, I am not Buddhist. I would look at the guidelines which prohibit "promoting an agenda". If they allow your zin buddist listing, then they will have to allow another's muhammed or Christ promoting listing. That guidelines applies to the cache listing. This one and this other one apply to the cache contents. However if the reviewer is aware that the initial contents contain nothing but tracts or other similar materials they might encourage some additional variety before hitting the publish button. Quote Link to comment
+storchburp Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 What about caches placed in or near places of worship? They may have been placed to highlight their historic or architectural significance, but often include some description of the faith that goes there. Is there enough of a distinction between a cache that says "The people who come here believe in Jesus" versus "You, the cacher, should believe in Jesus" etc as an example? Quote Link to comment
+TheLegoFool&Missus Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 No, you can move out any item you wish provided you trade even or up. You might decide that it's worth nothing especially if it's political or religious. This whole. I think it's garbage doesn't really impress me. What, so for every gum wrapper, rock, or porn DVD I remove from a cache, I should put something in? Garbage is garbage. I was speaking of trashing things out in the context of this thread not necessarily the things you list - however, even if it was a rock, I would leave better then I found before rehiding the cache. Just me maybe. A larger rock? Quote Link to comment
+Harry Dolphin Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 No, you can move out any item you wish provided you trade even or up. You might decide that it's worth nothing especially if it's political or religious. This whole. I think it's garbage doesn't really impress me. What, so for every gum wrapper, rock, or porn DVD I remove from a cache, I should put something in? Garbage is garbage. I was speaking of trashing things out in the context of this thread not necessarily the things you list - however, even if it was a rock, I would leave better then I found before rehiding the cache. Just me maybe. A larger rock? Or golf balls... Quote Link to comment
+wmpastor Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Trade up, trade even, or not at all. If an item is inappropriate I remove it even if I don't have something to trade for it. Then you traded even if you considered the item worthless. Hmmm..."worthless" is a tricky concept. One person's junk is another person's treasure. Quote Link to comment
+wmpastor Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 No, you can move out any item you wish provided you trade even or up. You might decide that it's worth nothing especially if it's political or religious. This whole. I think it's garbage doesn't really impress me. What, so for every gum wrapper, rock, or porn DVD I remove from a cache, I should put something in? Garbage is garbage. I was speaking of trashing things out in the context of this thread not necessarily the things you list - however, even if it was a rock, I would leave better then I found before rehiding the cache. Just me maybe. A larger rock? Or golf balls... You mean a larger golf ball? Quote Link to comment
+wmpastor Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I've found porn magazines in a cache before. ... If I see item in a cache that might be questional, I just remove the item and throw it away. How much time did you study the magazine? I mean, to confirm that it was inappropriate, etc.? Did you do your careful review at the cache site or at home? Just wondering. Quote Link to comment
+TheLegoFool&Missus Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 No, you can move out any item you wish provided you trade even or up. You might decide that it's worth nothing especially if it's political or religious. This whole. I think it's garbage doesn't really impress me. What, so for every gum wrapper, rock, or porn DVD I remove from a cache, I should put something in? Garbage is garbage. I was speaking of trashing things out in the context of this thread not necessarily the things you list - however, even if it was a rock, I would leave better then I found before rehiding the cache. Just me maybe. A larger rock? Or golf balls... You mean a larger golf ball? Wouldn't that be considered a baseball now? Quote Link to comment
GOF and Bacall Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I always trade what I think it's worth. Quote Link to comment
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