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This is from the Sheriff in Nye County and his responses to it.

 

I wasn't aware of any Geocaching within Nye County over 99.9% of ET highway is in Lincoln County. I do know what Geocaching is however and understand it is popular.

 

The highway dept. is a state agency. I will forward this to the north area commander to look into this on the Nye County side. I suggest that if you have Cache's in Lincoln County you should contact them as well.

 

When I have additional information I will re-contact you. Looking at your message does give an indication that there was a safety issue concern.

 

If you have any questions you may contact me.

 

Regards

 

Sent from the Mobile Office of Nye County Sheriff Tony DeMeo

 

We will see what we can do to assist making sure you have a great event,

 

Tony

 

 

Sent from the Mobile Office of Nye County Sheriff Tony DeMeo

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I have corresponded with one of the Nye County Commissioners and she is looking into it at both the county and state level, she did relate that the roads in question are State highways and not county roads. She seems to understand the economic impact to her area. From what I have read in the logs there are more cows on this stretch of highway than cars on most days.

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Wow, this would be reason enough seriously consider archiving a single cache, not to mention a power trail:

 

EDIT: To clarify, added the text "seriously consider". I don't think that a reviewer should necessarily see this text and then pull the plug, but as an owner I'd think long and hard about it.

 

"Please drive very carefully while participating in this geocache series. Truck drivers and the general public have complained that vehicles are stopping on the road in blind spots and / or pulling out in front of fast moving traffic causing near misses. This is very dangerous and may result in someone getting hurt and/or this entire series of geocaches being archived."

 

Using the cache page as a private forum would be another. :rolleyes:

Edited by Castle Mischief
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I kinda agree. 70mph highway and cachers pulling off the shoulder and back on is a bit risky, especially when people are in a hurry. I hope there is a way to keep the series in place, but maybe some safety measures of some sort.

 

The problem is that people are NOT pulling off of the road, they are stopping directly in the traffic lane. An additional issue is that some are not pulling back onto the road but driving the shoulder from cache to cache. This creating a new dirt road next to the pavement. As a result, the state road workers in Nye County started pulling the 500+ caches located in their area, beginning last week.

 

I understand the concerns of NDOT in Nye County, but I don't blame this on power trails. I blame it on the stupidity of a certain number of our members. These are the same people that would walk through a flower bed when the cache is clearly on the other side and it will only add five seconds to walk around.

 

It's obvious that this series has brought in a lot of money to the small towns of Alamo, Rachel and Tonopah. A letter that was forwarded to me by a Nye County Commissioner said that the county was unaware that the state was doing this and she was launching an inquiry as to why they were doing this without notifying the county.

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The money that might come in from the relatively small number of cachers from out of state to do the trail is nothing compared to say, oh, Las Vegas. It also means nothing if someone gets killed and the state gets some bad PR. I can see why the state/county is concerned.

 

(Edited to read better)

Edited by BBWolf+3Pigs
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I been watching this series for a while. MOST Geocachers are from out of state or other countries. Very few locals. Don't matter to me if they close it Ill go elsewhere like California. I thought the Governor Bob Miller made the Extraterrestrial Hi-way 375 back in approximately 1997 to help the Tourism with Nevada? I guess hes not there any more?

 

I predict the series will STAY OPEN! Every road is DANGEROUS! Lots of people die every year on the roads everywhere. We always need roads. There is not an accident free one. :P

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I kinda agree. 70mph highway and cachers pulling off the shoulder and back on is a bit risky, especially when people are in a hurry. I hope there is a way to keep the series in place, but maybe some safety measures of some sort.

 

The problem is that people are NOT pulling off of the road, they are stopping directly in the traffic lane. An additional issue is that some are not pulling back onto the road but driving the shoulder from cache to cache. This creating a new dirt road next to the pavement. As a result, the state road workers in Nye County started pulling the 500+ caches located in their area, beginning last week.

 

I think it's worth including a link to the log that kicked off the dozens of notes posted in the thread that made others aware of the issue. See This Log.

 

What I found hard to fathom was the fact that the country highway department started removing containers and one or more geocachers thought it was a good idea to replace them right away.

 

I understand the concerns of NDOT in Nye County, but I don't blame this on power trails. I blame it on the stupidity of a certain number of our members. These are the same people that would walk through a flower bed when the cache is clearly on the other side and it will only add five seconds to walk around.

 

I disagree. Here's the blurb from cache listing on ET 001 (I think it's the same on all of them).

 

"Aliens have invaded the ET Highway and wanted to get in on the geocaching craze. There are at least 1000 caches along this stretch of the Extraterrestrial Highway. How many can you do in a day?"

 

That effectively invites geocachers to turn the game of geocaching, at least for a series of caches into a race. Because it becomes a race against time to see "how many you can do in a day" there have been numerous strategies employed to achieve that goal. While there are probably some that would walk through a flowerbed to save five seconds for a cache, someone out looking for a handful of caches in a day doesn't have the incentive the power/numbers trail provides.

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This series doesn't sound like much fun. We would feel like lab rats caching in town after town of muggles who are aware of what we were doing. The whole purpose (as we see it) of geocaching would be missing. We just don't get it.

 

There are a lot of ways to Geocache and each cacher has their preferred ways to cache.

 

If you read through the past logs for the series you'll find cachers who had an absolute blast doing the series and are very grateful for the experience. It's not for you, obviously, but many people really enjoy the time in the quiet and beauty of the desert.

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I kinda agree. 70mph highway and cachers pulling off the shoulder and back on is a bit risky, especially when people are in a hurry. I hope there is a way to keep the series in place, but maybe some safety measures of some sort.

 

The problem is that people are NOT pulling off of the road, they are stopping directly in the traffic lane. An additional issue is that some are not pulling back onto the road but driving the shoulder from cache to cache. This creating a new dirt road next to the pavement. As a result, the state road workers in Nye County started pulling the 500+ caches located in their area, beginning last week.

 

I think it's worth including a link to the log that kicked off the dozens of notes posted in the thread that made others aware of the issue. See This Log.

 

What I found hard to fathom was the fact that the country highway department started removing containers and one or more geocachers thought it was a good idea to replace them right away.

 

I understand the concerns of NDOT in Nye County, but I don't blame this on power trails. I blame it on the stupidity of a certain number of our members. These are the same people that would walk through a flower bed when the cache is clearly on the other side and it will only add five seconds to walk around.

 

I disagree. Here's the blurb from cache listing on ET 001 (I think it's the same on all of them).

 

"Aliens have invaded the ET Highway and wanted to get in on the geocaching craze. There are at least 1000 caches along this stretch of the Extraterrestrial Highway. How many can you do in a day?"

 

That effectively invites geocachers to turn the game of geocaching, at least for a series of caches into a race. Because it becomes a race against time to see "how many you can do in a day" there have been numerous strategies employed to achieve that goal. While there are probably some that would walk through a flowerbed to save five seconds for a cache, someone out looking for a handful of caches in a day doesn't have the incentive the power/numbers trail provides.

 

I find it very disturbing that someone would replace the caches removed by the DOT. What a great way to foster a spirit of cooperation with local authorities. <_<

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I predict the series will STAY OPEN!
What do you base that prediction on?
Every road is DANGEROUS! Lots of people die every year on the roads everywhere. We always need roads. There is not an accident free one. :P
You do realize that you just made a good argument for closing the series, right?

 

I am being sarcastic! There are power cache series in other states. They DO NOT have this problem! Even cache hunting in any city can be dangerous! You must not live your life in a shell and be afraid of your own shadow! You probably never leave home Huh? I say pull off the roads while caching here. Use common sense. No need for doing it at night.

Edited by Sandpig
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I find it very disturbing that someone would replace the caches removed by the DOT. What a great way to foster a spirit of cooperation with local authorities. <_<

 

That's not necessarily the case. We've got a cacher (1) reporting that their employee (2) heard from a road crew person (3) that Nye County (4) was going to remove the caches on this STATE highway. We're the fourth or fifth participant in this game of Telephone. We've actually seen no official communication from any government authority that the caches are banned.

 

I suggest we reserve judgement until all the facts are in.

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I find it very disturbing that someone would replace the caches removed by the DOT. What a great way to foster a spirit of cooperation with local authorities. <_<

 

That's not necessarily the case. We've got a cacher (1) reporting that their employee (2) heard from a road crew person (3) that Nye County (4) was going to remove the caches on this STATE highway. We're the fourth or fifth participant in this game of Telephone. We've actually seen no official communication from any government authority that the caches are banned.

 

I suggest we reserve judgement until all the facts are in.

 

Would have been a good idea if the cachers replacing the caches would have reserved judgment until the facts were in. I guess the numbers were more important than finding out what was really going on.

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Would have been a good idea if the cachers replacing the caches would have reserved judgment until the facts were in. I guess the numbers were more important than finding out what was really going on.

 

I don't believe we have enough information to form an opinion on their motives. Even so, I've seen one warning today from a moderator reminding us to refrain from talking about other cachers.

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I understand the concerns of NDOT in Nye County, but I don't blame this on power trails. I blame it on the stupidity of a certain number of our members. These are the same people that would walk through a flower bed when the cache is clearly on the other side and it will only add five seconds to walk around.

 

I also happen to disagree with this statement. What is a power power trail? According to Geolex, "Power Trail – A path with a large number of easy traditional caches placed every 1/10th of a mile. Like a Cache Machine, it's another way for people to easily increase their Find count. As such, it is looked down upon by some." Most of the people that visit these are trying to do them as fast as they can and in doing them at a very fast pace can cause some to lose focus on their driving, parking, and common sense.

 

I am not against Power Trails, they are just not for me. I do like to find a few quick caches here and there and will sometimes try to look for a cache rich area to look for some. I also like to do walks on trails with my dog and will look for trails with a fair amount of caches to do but I don't do all of them because some of them may be too far from the trail to leave my dog or they are hidden in very deep brush and I don't want to drag my golden through all of the stickers to get to it.

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I predict the series will STAY OPEN!
What do you base that prediction on?
Every road is DANGEROUS! Lots of people die every year on the roads everywhere. We always need roads. There is not an accident free one. :P
You do realize that you just made a good argument for closing the series, right?
I am being sarcastic! There are power cache series in other states. They DO NOT have this problem! Even cache hunting in any city can be dangerous! You must not live your life in a shell and be afraid of your own shadow! You probally never leave home Huh? I say pull off the roads while caching here. Use common sense. No need for doing it at night.
First, fix your quotes.

 

Next, the danger associated with caching in an area needs to be considered by two people: the individual cacher, and the land owner. While the owners of the highway aren't afraid of their shadows, they are afraid of getting sued by someone who gets hurt after someone asked permission to put caches there.

 

Finally, suggesting out of the blue that someone "probally [sic] never leave home Huh?" can be interpreted as a personal attack. Attacking someone without being able to spell probably does look a bit silly. For the record, I've found over 2200 caches in 13 states, a fact that you can verify by looking at my profile, so I must have left home at some point, huh?

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I find it very disturbing that someone would replace the caches removed by the DOT. What a great way to foster a spirit of cooperation with local authorities. <_<

 

That's not necessarily the case. We've got a cacher (1) reporting that their employee (2) heard from a road crew person (3) that Nye County (4) was going to remove the caches on this STATE highway. We're the fourth or fifth participant in this game of Telephone. We've actually seen no official communication from any government authority that the caches are banned.

 

I suggest we reserve judgement until all the facts are in.

5) which I heard at an event this morning

6) from a local cacher that said that another local cacher was told

7) supposedly by someone directly involved in placing the caches to bring about 50 ready-to-toss film cannisters with them because

8) a road grader driver and a local rancher were picking up the caches.

 

So, I know that it is a fact.

 

ETA: Everything except that last statement is serious. I heard that at an event here in Minnesota this morning before this thread was posted.

Edited by knowschad
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I find it very disturbing that someone would replace the caches removed by the DOT. What a great way to foster a spirit of cooperation with local authorities. <_<

 

That's not necessarily the case. We've got a cacher (1) reporting that their employee (2) heard from a road crew person (3) that Nye County (4) was going to remove the caches on this STATE highway. We're the fourth or fifth participant in this game of Telephone. We've actually seen no official communication from any government authority that the caches are banned.

 

I suggest we reserve judgement until all the facts are in.

 

Here are what I think the relevant portions of the log in question.

 

"During lunch on the first day, 2-3-11, at the Little Ale Inn we were advised by one of the employees that they had been told by one of the road crew workers for Nye county that effective 2-2-11, all of the series in Nye county was being removed by the road crew due to driver's negligence of some of the overzealous cachers working the trail in the past. Apparently they have caused two accidents and numerous near misses.

 

Based on this information we stocked up on containers (about 75-100) to head out on 2-4 to do as much of the trail as we could. The first cache that came up missing was #443 at the Nye County line. We had ran out of containers by the time we had completed #550."

 

No, we don't have *all* the facts, and I suspect that as forum participants we never will have all the facts. If it turns out that someone in an official capacity in Nye country authorized the removal of containers and a geocacher went out and replaced them, do you really think they're going to care if it's a STATE highway? It really wouldn't be a stretch to consider the possibility that the county might ban all geocaching within their county...including any non ET caches that pre-existed the power trail.

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I hope they get to fix up the power trail for those who already have spent money to reserve their visit to the area.

Luckily there is a small town nearby that should provide some entertainment if needed (Las Vegas).

 

We already completed our visit there.

Although we did have a dozen cars pass by us along the highway, that wasn't the scary part.

Being from the city....the big city....we don't interact with animals much....at least not with animals that are not restrained in some way.

Around midnight we were reaching for a geocache in a bush, when we heard a noise in the bushes.

We raised our flashlight and came face to face with a very large black Horned animal.

He seemed to be as surprised as we were.

We all ran back to the car, screaming and waving our arms.

Luckily the animal was laughing too hard to pursue us. :laughing:

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One would wonder that maybe something should be said about the cachers going out in groups of 8 or more and leap frogging from one cache to another. This maybe the problems with the accidents or car issues. Maybe it should be mandatory for each cache container to be found by each group form the CO side, Just a thought as I could see that being a problem.

 

On a personnal note I do hope the trail stays open and they get things resolved as I do plan a trip out that way soon and was just about to purchases the airline tickets until this mess showed and now not sure.

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I hope they get to fix up the power trail for those who already have spent money to reserve their visit to the area.

 

At the last event I attended I heard a couple of different groups that were planning their vacations/hotel/airplane reservations so that they would complete the E.T. highway. A lot of money is spent in that area by cachers.

 

I truly hope the series doesn't get suddenly yanked as it would negatively affect many cachers.

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Absolutely appalling, and a shameful black eye on the face of the entire game.

 

I hope this spurs Groundspeak to take much-needed and immediate action against these inconsiderate cache placements.

 

For those who have already made plans and bought tickets, surely the thrill of tossing film canisters out the window of a slow-moving car is the same whether or not there are "smilies" involved.

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Absolutely appalling, and a shameful black eye on the face of the entire game.

 

I hope this spurs Groundspeak to take much-needed and immediate action against these inconsiderate cache placements.

 

For those who have already made plans and bought tickets, surely the thrill of tossing film canisters out the window of a slow-moving car is the same whether or not there are "smilies" involved.

 

"A shameful black eye on the face of the entire game"...Really? From a fourth-hand story about some (supposedly) highway workers comments in a store?

 

That's no more a " black eye on the face of the entire game" than the many conversations cachers have had with locals who sell gas, film canisters, food & hotel services to the travelling cachers are shining a bright light on "the face of the entire game".

 

Let's keep this in perspective, please.

 

As for the second comment...

 

If the thrill was the equivalent of "tossing film canisters" out the window. You won't see so many people do it and write such long, effusive logs about their wonderful experiences.

 

It's obvious you would not enjoy a day in the Nevada dessert doing the series, but lets not trash those who do enjoy the experience.

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Based on this information we stocked up on containers (about 75-100) to head out on 2-4 to do as much of the trail as we could. The first cache that came up missing was #443 at the Nye County line. We had ran out of containers by the time we had completed #550."

:blink: That fits with what I heard this morning. But... but... but... don't they understand that they were HIDING caches, not FINDING them? :lol:
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Based on this information we stocked up on containers (about 75-100) to head out on 2-4 to do as much of the trail as we could. The first cache that came up missing was #443 at the Nye County line. We had ran out of containers by the time we had completed #550."

:blink: That fits with what I heard this morning. But... but... but... don't they understand that they were HIDING caches, not FINDING them? :lol:

 

Yeesh.

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Let's keep this in perspective, please.

 

I enjoyed doing a little bit of repetitive caching one morning along the ET highway - and I left open the possibility that someday some friends and I might take on the trail in earnest. But at the time I wondered what would happen if officials became concerned about the trail or if highway crews decided to remove them for any number of reasons. So now we know at least part of the answer.

 

Whether the ET Trail remains listed is an issue for Groundspeak, the COs, and the relevant authorities to work out. But that cachers take it upon themselves to replace a hundred or so canisters in a place where they believed that the originals might have been hidden is an issue of littering. That is a different perspective and something that I hope the CITO ethics of Groundspeak would not support.

 

But if the trail is closed and you have plans or tickets to come to the area, don't despair. A loop around Red Rock Canyon, the Valley of Fire, Toroweap (and the One Giant Step cache), Zion, Bryce, and the North Rim would give you more than enough caches and a memory far more important than finding 1000 film cans left by the side of a road. And you might even throw the Old Spanish Trail, a few ghost towns, and the Old Pioneer Saloon cache into the mix. The area has more to offer than aliens.

Edited by mulvaney
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This series doesn't sound like much fun. We would feel like lab rats caching in town after town of muggles who are aware of what we were doing. The whole purpose (as we see it) of geocaching would be missing. We just don't get it.

 

There are a lot of ways to Geocache and each cacher has their preferred ways to cache.

 

If you read through the past logs for the series you'll find cachers who had an absolute blast doing the series and are very grateful for the experience. It's not for you, obviously, but many people really enjoy the time in the quiet and beauty of the desert.

 

...the beauty and quiet that you'll be enjoying as you race from one cache to the next! The Beauty and quiet that apparently isn't beautiful or quiet enough if the local economy is dependent on the survival of a geocaching powertrail to keep the lights on (based on some of the posts to this thread).

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Would have been a good idea if the cachers replacing the caches would have reserved judgment until the facts were in. I guess the numbers were more important than finding out what was really going on.

 

I don't believe we have enough information to form an opinion on their motives. Even so, I've seen one warning today from a moderator reminding us to refrain from talking about other cachers.

 

Well, considering that one cacher advocated that everyone continue to replace the caches until the road crew got tired of pulling them, I can form an opinion on exactly what her motives are. The CO is trying to work out a plan that works for all parties involved. The center of that plan has to depend on the idea that Geocachers are responsible people. This is not true for quite a few that have driven this series.

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"Play the game the way you want to" is the mantra. Yet the numbers hounds have continually screwed up our sport. Whether it's the cachers who rip up flower beds in their haste to find the cache and move on to the next, or those who seek these power trails.

 

I'm sure people who have done this series have had fun. Would their fun have been lessened all that much had there been a cache every two miles? Would they have not have experienced the same fun sans the extra smileys? Perhaps they might have actually have had time in between caches to look up from their GPS units and actually appreciate the area. Then again, people would not have been booking plane tickets if only a few hundred smileys were involved. Numbers is the name of the game.

 

I'm sure ATVers have fun too. They also tear up the land in their pursuit of their fun. This makes them unwelcome in many areas. For years we've been trying to sell geocaching as a low impact sport, which it usually is. But here we've see "effusive" logs from "fun seekers" who gush over the possibility of seeing our damage visible from space.

 

Way to go guys. Keep it up. Let's place more of these things so you can crank up your numbers, and d@mn the torpedoes.

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"Play the game the way you want to" is the mantra. Yet the numbers hounds have continually screwed up our sport. Whether it's the cachers who rip up flower beds in their haste to find the cache and move on to the next, or those who seek these power trails.

 

I'm sure people who have done this series have had fun. Would their fun have been lessened all that much had there been a cache every two miles? Would they have not have experienced the same fun sans the extra smileys? Perhaps they might have actually have had time in between caches to look up from their GPS units and actually appreciate the area. Then again, people would not have been booking plane tickets if only a few hundred smileys were involved. Numbers is the name of the game.

 

I'm sure ATVers have fun too. They also tear up the land in their pursuit of their fun. This makes them unwelcome in many areas. For years we've been trying to sell geocaching as a low impact sport, which it usually is. But here we've see "effusive" logs from "fun seekers" who gush over the possibility of seeing our damage visible from space.

 

Way to go guys. Keep it up. Let's place more of these things so you can crank up your numbers, and d@mn the torpedoes.

 

Thats pretty harsh. But then... the truth usually is. Your first sentence sums it all up. With that mindset, how can chaos not be far behind??

Well said Brian.

+1

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One thing we do know...if someone in a position of authority actually says that geocaches are not allowed on that stretch, the caches will be archived. Groundspeak has been very good about archiving caches where the authorities said "No".

 

Proactive is always better than reactive. Groundspeak has been putting its head in the ET power trail sand for a while now. Closing the feedback suggestion on powertrails, with no resolution, was silly too. I know they don't want to give any possible competing site a major issue to champion, but sometimes things need to be done to protect the future of geocaching.

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This series of discussions about the ET Highway series has prompted me to comment to the forum for my first time. I keep reading about how "some cachers" are just ruining it for the rest of us. Well, I don't buy it. It is a phrase that people are just too ready to trot out in a situation like this. "Someone" is always trying to ruin something. I see some people who complain that some people are going into the desert, and that is what is causing the problem. Others complain it that some people are parking in the roadway and are ruining it. What the heck do you want? You either park on the highway or in the desert out there. There isn't much "in between". Maybe we should all hover out there like a UFO??!? And now I read the non-number people weighing in that it is the number cachers that are "ruining" everything.

Come on people. It is not parking in the road, parking on the shoulder, or just wanting to go and do the trail that is ruining everything. The fact is that nothing has been ruined. The cows "ruin" the desert more that all the cachers that have ever visited this series. And I have yet to see anyone do more than speculate that any cacher has caused an accident (I did see a cow sized dent in the front of a semi-truck the day I was leaving, though, and a pile of rotting hamburger about 30 yards away in the desert. I doubt any cacher was driving it).

My guess is that some semi-official government employee has made it his mission to "do something" out there before someone or something gets hurt. I am always amazed at how many people get a bug to "do something" when "doing something" is neither wanted or needed. Change happens, they don't like it, so some people try to use "safety" or some other feel-good word to apply to the situation when what they really want is for everything to go back like they remember it.

Please, quit trying to blame somebody! If you guys haven't been out there, quit making stuff up in your head. No one is out there ruining anything. The people who think someone is, are causing more problems (in these forums) than the caching that has been happening out there. It is beautiful country, but it is not pristine territory that was safe and untouched until the cachers arrived. It is open range with lots cattle, plus signs of many cattle trucks having cut across the desert for many, many years. Nothing any cacher has done, or even 500 cachers have done will leave any permanent scar on this land. If you don't believe me, go on out there and look. The locals will love to have you stop by.

Edited by TeamArgo
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One thing we do know...if someone in a position of authority actually says that geocaches are not allowed on that stretch, the caches will be archived. Groundspeak has been very good about archiving caches where the authorities said "No".

 

So from what I understand, the sheriff pulled a fairly large number of caches within his county. The CO is trying to work out a plan that will work for all. In the meantime, at least some cachers have "replaced" or littered film cans until they ran out, with apparently no explicit permission from the owner or no way to determine if the caches were being returned to the places that the owner intended. In the usual situation, I would think that the affected caches would be temporarily disabled until and unless things could be worked out with county or state officials and until actual owner maintenance could be done.

 

I am a little surprised that this has not happened.

Edited by mulvaney
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One thing we do know...if someone in a position of authority actually says that geocaches are not allowed on that stretch, the caches will be archived. Groundspeak has been very good about archiving caches where the authorities said "No".

 

So from what I understand, the sheriff pulled a fairly large number of caches within his county. The CO is trying to work out a plan that will work for all. In the meantime, at least some cachers have "replaced" or littered film cans until they ran out, with apparently no explicit permission from the owner or no way to determine if the caches were being returned to the places that the owner intended. In most cases, I would think that the affected caches would be temporarily disabled until and unless things could be worked out with county or state officials and until actual owner maintenance could be done.

 

I am a little surprised that this has not happened.

 

I am suprised that you are suprised. These power trails have become a sub game of geocaching, with throwdowns and preloaded containers as the norm. The majority of this type of powertrail cacher doesn't care to actually find the container. A throwdown is considered a find for some reason. It is not uncommon to find multiple containers in spots. Two is very common and I've heard of 3.

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My guess is that some semi-official government employee has made it his mission to "do something" out there before someone or something gets hurt. I am always amazed at how many people get a bug to "do something" when "doing something" is neither wanted or needed. Everybody just get a grip and let this thing work out. And for goodness sake, quit trying to blame somebody!

 

I think C....s has commandered a UFO and is visiting all sites, removing caches in order to save us from ourselves and our activity.

 

I think we need to let some dust settle, the facts need to be researched, urban rumors need to be refuted and those most intimately involved need to sort it all out. I think The C.O.'s, The County / State Road Departments, Law Enforcement Entities and other appropriate agencies might have stakes and valid concerns in this matter.

 

In short, there may be more here than meets the eye.

 

FWIW: I have been to the E.T. Trail twice and am returning for a third time during the May event. Thus I have a passing familiarity with some aspects along the trail

Edited by humboldt flier
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I am suprised that you are suprised.

 

The key word was "little."

 

I think we need to let some dust settle, the facts need to be researched, urban rumors need to be refuted and those most intimately involved need to sort it all out.

 

I too am in favor of letting the dust settle until all concerned can work things out. But I have seen Groundspeak temporarily disable caches for less reason. At the very least I wonder why the affected caches have not been disabled to give time to work things out, allow for owner maintenance, and to discourage throwdowns until things are in place. To give time to sort it all out without people taking it on themselves to "solve" the problem by bringing more film cans into the area.

Edited by mulvaney
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This series of discussions about the ET Highway series has prompted me to comment to the forum for my first time. I keep reading about how "some cachers" are just ruining it for the rest of us. Well, I don't buy it. It is a phrase that people are just too ready to trot out in a situation like this. "Someone" is always trying to ruin something. I see some people who complain that some people are going into the desert, and that is what is causing the problem. Others complain it that some people are parking in the roadway and are ruining it. What the heck do you want? You either park on the highway or in the desert out there. There isn't much "in between". Maybe we should all hover out there like a UFO??!? And now I read the non-number people weighing in that it is the number cachers that are "ruining" everything.

Come on people. It is not parking in the road, parking on the shoulder, or just wanting to go and do the trail that is ruining everything. The fact is that nothing has been ruined. The cows "ruin" the desert more that all the cachers that have ever visited this series. And no cacher has caused an accident (again, I did see a cow sized dent in the front of a semi-truck the day I was leaving, though). But the bottom line is that we don't even know the real story about what is going on out there.

My guess is that some semi-official government employee has made it his mission to "do something" out there before someone or something gets hurt. I am always amazed at how many people get a bug to "do something" when "doing something" is neither wanted or needed. Everybody just get a grip and let this thing work out. And for goodness sake, quit trying to blame somebody!

It's become a hysteria. Single stories of "somebody" doing something 'negative' gets extrapolated into a mass disaster. Second and third hand stories become geocaching nighmares. Anyone who does a series is a "Numbers cacher" and must be shunned.

 

The fact is, the people who do these trails are our geocaching friends who we meet at events and even going caching with. I've heard the stories and read the logs. These cachers don't match the picture painted by the those who wish to ban this activity. They are the same people who were hunting ammo cans last week or going after that multi the next weekend.

 

These trails are popular and the logs show that the teams who attempt them have a great time and come away with unique memories. Yet critics who live 100's, if not 1000's of miles away will believe every wild story told while simultaneousness forgetting all the very real stories that happen to caches in their own locale.

 

I wish we could "all just get along" and allow others to enjoy geocaching in their own ways, but I'm afraid that's just unrealistic idealism.

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