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You are putting a light on them like they are bad for geocaching.com

 

Because I do think they are bad for geocachihg. Not necessarily all numbers hounds, just the ones who think the customs of the sport don't apply to them and have a total disregard for the area around the cache.

 

Then how do seperate the good from the bad? How do you know which ones showed disregard for the area?

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I was under the impression that if you don't find a cache you logged a DNF, right? So when they don't find the cache why aren't they doing this?
The guidelines state that if the log was signed, then it's a find. In cases where the log wasn't signed, the cache owner is the arbiter of whether a find is appropriate. If the cache owner and seeker agree taht something non-standard is a find, then it is.

If this becomes the rule and not the exception then the cache has effectively become a virtual. For any other cache it would be archived by the reviewers for that.

 

With all the throwdowns, moved cache containers and log books that could end up anywhere along the road it seems like the physical container doesn't matter here anymore. So this is what a power trail of virtuals would look like...

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I hope they get to fix up the power trail for those who already have spent money to reserve their visit to the area.

 

At the last event I attended I heard a couple of different groups that were planning their vacations/hotel/airplane reservations so that they would complete the E.T. highway. A lot of money is spent in that area by cachers.

 

But if the shoulder of the road is being damaged by cachers driving on it... well, I doubt that the money spent by cachers is generating enough tax revenue to cover those repairs.

We've seen plenty of pics of these shoulders. Where's the damage?

I haven't seen any pics of these shoulders, I'm going by what is quoted in the thread. It has been said that the dirt tracks along the side of the road are visible in satellite pictures. It was mentioned in a previous post that cachers are driving on the shoulder instead of pulling back onto the road.

 

Driving on the shoulder kills the vegetation. The vegetation prevents erosion. Ergo driving on the shoulder will cause damage.

 

Area you taking about the E.T. Highway? That is what the thread is about. You must not of read thru the posts here cause there are plenty of pictures showing the shoulder of the road. Kind of hard to hurt the sand and rocks. I did not see the vegetation that you speak of.

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For those who don't visit the cache pages.

This is what the side of the road looks like:

61c9f370-aeea-46ed-bd6f-b77d5c8d8546.jpg

 

Another shot of the side of the road:

 

d5ff9f70-1b1e-4e9a-9c4d-f17043c7450c.jpg

 

One of the views:

 

0ada7e83-404b-490c-ade6-b7c087866e67.jpg

 

The start:

 

1bfc5d3c-9f28-4e62-9f8c-67f85f4f59d2.jpg

 

Rush Hour Traffic:

 

5cd09dfe-983f-4992-8f55-864c020222ed.jpg

 

Wildlife:

 

4cf258e9-bb5d-4ac8-a170-ecc52926c204.jpg

 

 

The end:

 

1af605a3-a398-4ed4-80d1-9042790bc63a.jpg

 

Sunrise:

 

b83a194e-77f9-4050-b1eb-c3404cc5a04a.jpg

 

Open Range:

 

e708141a-35f5-4ef0-99f5-eead3477295d.jpg

 

Great pictures of the damage on the E.T. Highway. :blink:

 

Just because you guys don't like finding alot of caches at one time doesn't mean we can't enjoy it. :)

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I hope they get to fix up the power trail for those who already have spent money to reserve their visit to the area.

 

At the last event I attended I heard a couple of different groups that were planning their vacations/hotel/airplane reservations so that they would complete the E.T. highway. A lot of money is spent in that area by cachers.

 

But if the shoulder of the road is being damaged by cachers driving on it... well, I doubt that the money spent by cachers is generating enough tax revenue to cover those repairs.

We've seen plenty of pics of these shoulders. Where's the damage?

I haven't seen any pics of these shoulders, I'm going by what is quoted in the thread. It has been said that the dirt tracks along the side of the road are visible in satellite pictures. It was mentioned in a previous post that cachers are driving on the shoulder instead of pulling back onto the road.

 

Driving on the shoulder kills the vegetation. The vegetation prevents erosion. Ergo driving on the shoulder will cause damage.

 

Area you taking about the E.T. Highway? That is what the thread is about. You must not of read thru the posts here cause there are plenty of pictures showing the shoulder of the road. Kind of hard to hurt the sand and rocks. I did not see the vegetation that you speak of.

 

I take that back, I do see all the wild flowers that are getting crushed while out caching in the pictures. We better close down all the caches that are in the woods and fields where all the vegetation is getting killed out from all the walking on them as we head to the caches.

 

I mean, where do we stop with the sillyness of us tearing up the earth as we cache. I hope I don't break a pipeline while caching and mess up the gulf coast or anything like that.

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I hope they get to fix up the power trail for those who already have spent money to reserve their visit to the area.

 

At the last event I attended I heard a couple of different groups that were planning their vacations/hotel/airplane reservations so that they would complete the E.T. highway. A lot of money is spent in that area by cachers.

 

But if the shoulder of the road is being damaged by cachers driving on it... well, I doubt that the money spent by cachers is generating enough tax revenue to cover those repairs.

We've seen plenty of pics of these shoulders. Where's the damage?

I haven't seen any pics of these shoulders, I'm going by what is quoted in the thread. It has been said that the dirt tracks along the side of the road are visible in satellite pictures.

People say alot of things...

It was mentioned in a previous post that cachers are driving on the shoulder instead of pulling back onto the road.

I'm not sure how the poster would know this. I don't see evidence of it from teh pics.

Driving on the shoulder kills the vegetation. The vegetation prevents erosion. Ergo driving on the shoulder will cause damage.

Take a look at the photos.
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I haven't seen any pics of these shoulders, I'm going by what is quoted in the thread. It has been said that the dirt tracks along the side of the road are visible in satellite pictures. It was mentioned in a previous post that cachers are driving on the shoulder instead of pulling back onto the road.

 

Driving on the shoulder kills the vegetation. The vegetation prevents erosion. Ergo driving on the shoulder will cause damage.

 

Didn't take me long to find this. They were too lazy to walk the short distance to the cache. From the looks of the tire ruts they weren't the first.

 

bfc21ac1-1b29-4cce-b68a-57ee0c09a244.jpg

 

Outside that I can only go by what I see in the logs. In Alien Head section people are expressly asked by the CO not to drive to the caches, but the numbers hounds just can't abide that simple request. Walking would slow them down.

 

Here are a few logs:

 

"A quick sidenote: please do NOT drive your car out here! There are many car tracks and plants and stuff gets run over and destroyed. Not the way it is supposed to be."

 

"PS DON'T DRIVE THIS, HIKE IT. THE DAMAGE PEOPLE HAVE CAUSED BY DRIVING WILL TAKE YEARS TO FIX. IF SOMEONE LOCAL SEE'S THE DAMAGE THEY WILL FORCE IT TO BE CLOSED. WORST THEY MAY PLACE NAILS ON THE TRAIL TO DAMAGE TIRES. DON'T DRIVE IT THE HIKE IS MORE FUN."

 

"We used a SoccerMomRubicon Baja Buggy Wannabe and made our way around the image. The sounds of sage and creosote brush scraping down the sides was like running fingernails across a chalkboard."

 

"I'm sad to report that quite a number of cachers have chosen to drive to the caches out here, in spite of directions from the CO NOT to do so."

 

"Please people, if you want to do this series please plan on doing it on foot. Otherwise this area may very well become closed to everyone. Also, people driving around the caches are inadvertently driving over the cache containers without realizing it!!"

 

"As I set off on foot for the first cache I noticed that I was following a very nice set of tire tracks. It is starting to evolve into quite a roadway from cache to cache now. So much so that a good portion of the time I never took my GPS out of my pocket. I just followed the tire tracks between caches until the footprints lead me to the containers"

 

"Walked the entire Head Alien series (AS REQUESTED) in just about 2 hours and 15 minutes. Just walked on the fully packed down roads that people have made by driving through the desert."

 

"Parked on Gunderson connect and walked around the head from there. Walked in everyone else's tire marks so it was easy to know which way to go and to spot the caches quickly, often from over 100 feet away. For part of it, we didn't use the GPS at all. I'm curious for Google Earth to update their satellite imagery to see if there's a big alien head of tracks visible now."

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I hope they get to fix up the power trail for those who already have spent money to reserve their visit to the area.

 

At the last event I attended I heard a couple of different groups that were planning their vacations/hotel/airplane reservations so that they would complete the E.T. highway. A lot of money is spent in that area by cachers.

 

But if the shoulder of the road is being damaged by cachers driving on it... well, I doubt that the money spent by cachers is generating enough tax revenue to cover those repairs.

We've seen plenty of pics of these shoulders. Where's the damage?

 

You've got to be kidding.

 

  • We have a thread here where someone has claimed that damage is being done along the shoulder of the road were the trail exists.
  • Someone posts a handful of photos in which there doesn't seem to be any damage.
  • From the evidence in those photos you're claiming that no damage has been done?

 

Given the fact that there have been over 400 logs on most of the ET cache, it's reasonable to assume that all that activity has left somewhat of a trace, and not outside the realm of possibilities that those doing the trail have chosen *not* to capture it on film and post it in a forum thread with many participants that have a history of being critical about power trails.

 

Here's a photo from a log on the Alien Head portion of the trail:

 

6818351f-59ac-42d4-b343-5438b06e8305.jpg

 

And here are a few snippets from logs on the cache page which include that photo...Note that these quotes are not coming from a group of vigilantes trying to get the train banned, but from people that have found caches and presumably enjoyed the trail.

 

"please do NOT drive your car out here! There are many car tracks and plants and stuff gets run over and destroyed."

 

"I only wish that so many people hadn't driven their cars through the area to create the well-worn road that now leads right to all of the caches."

 

"People have obviously driven this series in spite of the warnings. PLEASE, respect the landscape and take the time to enjoy the walk or we're going to loose [sic] this."

 

"I'm sad to report that quite a number of cachers have chosen to drive to the caches out here, in spite of directions from the CO NOT to do so."

 

"PS DON'T DRIVE THIS, HIKE IT. THE DAMAGE PEOPLE HAVE CAUSED BY DRIVING WILL TAKE YEARS TO FIX. IF SOMEONE LOCAL SEE'S THE DAMAGE THEY WILL FORCE IT TO BE CLOSED."

 

"It is truly unfortunate that some cachers ARE NOT respecting the wishes of the cache owners by not driving this series of caches. Not only are the people that drive this series of caches disrespectful of the cache owners, they are disrespecting all the cachers that want to do this series in the future. If people continue to drive this series, the local rancher will put a stop to allowing cachers on the land."

 

"While we didn’t mind following the tire tracks at times, it is sad that cachers are not cooperating with the CO’s request to walk, not drive, to these caches."

 

 

I could include a lot more references about damage being done in the area, from the logs of geocachers that have gone out there and found caches, but if these are not convincing enough, no amount of evidence is going to change anyone's minds about the damage being done.

 

However, I found this one particularly interesting.

 

"It's really unbelievable how much damage vehicles have done to the plants that were in their path. But it made for a nice flat walking "trail" and we can only hope that people stop driving.

...

They [a couple or Ranchers] finally pull over to our vehicle and it is the same two guys that were hawking us on the Alien Head. They are ranchers - clearly - with the cowboy hats in a big ole white F350 super cab truck. I am just waiting to hear them yell at us or whatever. So the driver says "I just wanted clear up our intentions - we were just looking at you guys and wondering - we saw you in the pasture and wanted to make sure everything was ok" ...... SIGH of relief. Then he says "Can we ask what you guys were doing?"

.....

We now have their curiosity seriously peaked and we launch into a long and very friendly discussion with the ranchers. [redacted] explains geocaching - ... They are so intrigued that they can't wait to hear more. We show them the Alien Head map and tell them that people come from all over the world to seek these and the over 1,000 that are placed along the highway. They are absolutely thrilled and so happy to hear that not only were we ok but that people are doing this!!

...

 

The Alien Head "pasture" is their land and they said they have no problem with the Alien Head. They said they would keep an eye out for anyone in trouble and help them if they needed it. They appreciated our time and we had a blast talking to them. We shared good times just as the sun was setting. We sincerely think that these ranchers will be your advocates if you run into them, and they live in Rachel every other week to keep an eye on their cattle. BUT - I suspect they would NOT be happy if they see people driving this series."

 

It sounds like the owners of the land where the Alien Head is located are very receptive to the game...however, it doesn't sound like they were ever consulted beforehand to obtain permission.

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It sounds like the owners of the land where the Alien Head is located are very receptive to the game...however, it doesn't sound like they were ever consulted beforehand to obtain permission.

But now that I know the permission is there, I don't think I'd hesitate to go ahead and drive the series. It's apparently pasture land and a herd of cattle is going to do whole lot more damage to the land than my little SUV would.

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It sounds like the owners of the land where the Alien Head is located are very receptive to the game...however, it doesn't sound like they were ever consulted beforehand to obtain permission.

But now that I know the permission is there, I don't think I'd hesitate to go ahead and drive the series.

 

Despite the fact that the cache owner specifically asks finders *not* to drive series?

 

What if you're wrong, and the Ranchers *do* mind that people are driving on their pasture? From my reading of the log, the ranchers were watching geoachers walking the trail, not driving it. Is is worth the possibility of a permissive land owner changing their mind about access to their property if it means being able to obtain 70 or so smilies in an hour instead of three hours?

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It sounds like the owners of the land where the Alien Head is located are very receptive to the game...however, it doesn't sound like they were ever consulted beforehand to obtain permission.

But now that I know the permission is there, I don't think I'd hesitate to go ahead and drive the series. It's apparently pasture land and a herd of cattle is going to do whole lot more damage to the land than my little SUV would.

 

Typical power trail cacher mentality, which I still think is ultimitely bad for geocaching.

Edited by M 5
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I haven't seen any pics of these shoulders, I'm going by what is quoted in the thread. It has been said that the dirt tracks along the side of the road are visible in satellite pictures. It was mentioned in a previous post that cachers are driving on the shoulder instead of pulling back onto the road.

 

Driving on the shoulder kills the vegetation. The vegetation prevents erosion. Ergo driving on the shoulder will cause damage.

 

Also, is it legal to drive on the shoulder in Nevada? I'm guessing that any power trail along a highway/road is going to mean that people will drive the shoulder for miles, especially if it's a wide shoulder. Driving out to the road and back onto the shoulder is going to add a tiny bit of time to each stop of the race. Power trails are after all a racing type of game, so every second counts.

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Also, is it legal to drive on the shoulder in Nevada? I'm guessing that any power trail along a highway/road is going to mean that people will drive the shoulder for miles, especially if it's a wide shoulder. Driving out to the road and back onto the shoulder is going to add a tiny bit of time to each stop of the race. Power trails are after all a racing type of game, so every second counts.

 

Although the shoulders are wide in some spots, I did not see evidence that people drove the shoulders when we went out visit Rachel last summer (and stopped for some of the caches along the trail). You would make better time driving on pavement.

 

While there were other things in the region that were more of a priority for us, I have no problem if people decide that finding containers by the side of the road is more interesting than the Valley of Fire or Toroweap. And the thought of returning some day is in the back of my mind. So I am not either for or against repetitive caching.

 

But with people believing its proper to ignore the CO and drive the Alien Head; to take it upon themselves "replace" hundreds of caches (which were at least hidden in slightly different ways); and to keep the affected caches active even though the CO recognizes that things need to be worked out with local officials (at least in Nye County) . . . . this thread just keeps on getting more interesting all the time.

Edited by mulvaney
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Also, is it legal to drive on the shoulder in Nevada? I'm guessing that any power trail along a highway/road is going to mean that people will drive the shoulder for miles, especially if it's a wide shoulder. Driving out to the road and back onto the shoulder is going to add a tiny bit of time to each stop of the race. Power trails are after all a racing type of game, so every second counts.

Nevada Statute NRS 484B.450 does not prohibit parking on the shoulder of highways.

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Also, is it legal to drive on the shoulder in Nevada? I'm guessing that any power trail along a highway/road is going to mean that people will drive the shoulder for miles, especially if it's a wide shoulder. Driving out to the road and back onto the shoulder is going to add a tiny bit of time to each stop of the race. Power trails are after all a racing type of game, so every second counts.

Nevada Statute NRS 484B.450 does not prohibit parking on the shoulder of highways.

 

Yes parking would be legal, but what about driving along the shoulder instead of the road, for miles? Most places you can't use the shoulder to pass but I'm not sure what the rules are for driving on them as if they were a secondary road.

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Also, is it legal to drive on the shoulder in Nevada? I'm guessing that any power trail along a highway/road is going to mean that people will drive the shoulder for miles, especially if it's a wide shoulder. Driving out to the road and back onto the shoulder is going to add a tiny bit of time to each stop of the race. Power trails are after all a racing type of game, so every second counts.

Nevada Statute NRS 484B.450 does not prohibit parking on the shoulder of highways.

 

Nobody asked about parking. Is it legal to drive on the shoulder?

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Also, is it legal to drive on the shoulder in Nevada? I'm guessing that any power trail along a highway/road is going to mean that people will drive the shoulder for miles, especially if it's a wide shoulder. Driving out to the road and back onto the shoulder is going to add a tiny bit of time to each stop of the race. Power trails are after all a racing type of game, so every second counts.

Nevada Statute NRS 484B.450 does not prohibit parking on the shoulder of highways.

 

Yes parking would be legal, but what about driving along the shoulder instead of the road, for miles? Most places you can't use the shoulder to pass but I'm not sure what the rules are for driving on them as if they were a secondary road.

 

Come on, who would add time to getting to the caches driving the shoulder when you have a perfectly good paved road. :blink:

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c4a12d77-6531-41fc-b881-5a4c9aed1635.jpg

 

b01b8eee-a929-4c15-8b89-aba26bc90264.jpg

 

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Nice pics. Without exception, every single one shows damage.

But, like some have said, "Who cares? Let folks cache how they want!" <_<

 

Are we seeing damage from the lack of rain cause all I see is dried up plants which happens in the desert because of a lack of rain. Or is it the people standing next to the road sign leaving their feet prints?

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Also, is it legal to drive on the shoulder in Nevada? I'm guessing that any power trail along a highway/road is going to mean that people will drive the shoulder for miles, especially if it's a wide shoulder. Driving out to the road and back onto the shoulder is going to add a tiny bit of time to each stop of the race. Power trails are after all a racing type of game, so every second counts.

Nevada Statute NRS 484B.450 does not prohibit parking on the shoulder of highways.

 

Nobody asked about parking. Is it legal to drive on the shoulder?

Only with your hazzard lights on. :o

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Or desperate to make up bad behavior that they see what isn't there. :laughing:

We have people admitting to driving in areas they shouldn't.

We have vehicular damage occurring to a sensitive ecosystem.

We have folks claiming finds on caches they never hunted for.

We have folks tossing down throw down caches instead of claiming a DNF.

We have folks replacing a hundred or so caches which they believed were pulled by a government entity.

 

Obviously, you see this as perfectly acceptable behavior.

 

Some of us do not.

 

Either way, the behavior itself is not "made up". :rolleyes:

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I'm still pretty new to this but alot of this stuff like the throw downs and jumpers and pre stamped log containers is nothing i've seen in the faq pages on this site or at least I don't remember them if they were.

 

I was under the impression that if you don't find a cache you logged a DNF, right? So when they don't find the cache why aren't they doing this?

 

I carry duct tape in my pack in case I need to fix up a cache but I thought the practice would be to either to try to fix the cache and then let the CO know of this or replace the "BROKEN" containter and then also contact the CO to let them know you did this.

 

How could you tell in a desert where the cache was to replace a cache? I could see if there was a pile of rocks for each and ever geocache to know where to replace the geocaches but thought i'd read that you should log a dnf if you can't find it and if you want to help them out and replace it that you had to contact the CO and get permission "Before" you replaced it which would still be tricky if you didn't know 100% where it was to begin with.

 

Is not being able to find 100 or more caches normal? Wouldn't that in it's self send up some kind of flag saying I'd better contact the CO and notify him that something is going on with his caches? Wouldn't that be common sense?

 

I would think that if you were at that resteraunt and were told that someone official had removed those caches wouldn't you just be looking for trouble by putting them back when it sounds like it was done on purpose. Wouldn't that be yet another flag saying you need to contact the CO and let him know something is going on with the caches?

 

Sounds like either they are stirring things up for the heck of it or to be mean or they don't want to miss out on those numbers cause i'd think if they were just out for fun and scenery then missing out on a 100 wouldn't be a big deal since it's just about having fun, Right?

 

There are a few fairly small geocache series around here and I would think that if I went to the first one and took the whole cache and signed it in the car on the way to the second cache and then left the first cache there and took the second one with me and signed it in the car on the way to the 3rd one and put the second cache in the third cache spot and so on and so on i'd probaby have CO that would be pretty annoyed with me. This isn't good practice, right? So i'm wondering why they were doing this and then telling on themselves and posting it in their log?

 

I'm probably not the only newer person to be reading this and hoping they are not learning bad practices and wondering what is the right way and what is the wrong way to geocache.

 

Please go easy on me as i'm still pretty new.

 

Edited for my rotten gramer and changed a few things that didn't make much sense they way I had it...lol

Cindy, you have said in one post what some of us have been trying to say in pages. I hope you don't take this wrong, but "out of the mouth of babes".

 

That said, I will say that what is being discussed here is a specialized genre (aka "mutation") of geocaching, so please don't apply anything you see here to your day-to-day neighborhood geocaching.

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I'm curious for Google Earth to update their satellite imagery to see if there's a big alien head of tracks visible now."

Looks like it...

(Map edited out)

I expect to see some trails when the maps get updated, and have been checking in with various mapping services every few days. But so far nothing. I don't see any evidence of the Alien Head on this map (yet). The outline that another poster highlighted doesn't match the outline of the Alien Head.

 

Keep in mind that I am probably biased towards seeing the trails on the maps - I expect them to be there from the logs, and am irritated at the cachers who are ignoring the requests by the CO not to drive the Alien Head. But I have to be honest when I say that either the maps haven't been updated yet (my preferred theory), or the tracks aren't visible in the satellite images (which would disprove my beliefs). At this point I believe the imagery is little different from imagery of nearby desert areas.

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But I have to be honest when I say that either the maps haven't been updated yet (my preferred theory), or the tracks aren't visible in the satellite images (which would disprove my beliefs). At this point I believe the imagery is little different from imagery of nearby desert areas.

 

I don't have google earth at the moment, but google maps still show the Colonel in Rachel, which was removed in 2007. So I will go with the theory that they have not been updated in that area.

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I'm curious for Google Earth to update their satellite imagery to see if there's a big alien head of tracks visible now."

Looks like it...

(Map edited out)

I expect to see some trails when the maps get updated, and have been checking in with various mapping services every few days. But so far nothing. I don't see any evidence of the Alien Head on this map (yet). The outline that another poster highlighted doesn't match the outline of the Alien Head.

 

Keep in mind that I am probably biased towards seeing the trails on the maps - I expect them to be there from the logs, and am irritated at the cachers who are ignoring the requests by the CO not to drive the Alien Head. But I have to be honest when I say that either the maps haven't been updated yet (my preferred theory), or the tracks aren't visible in the satellite images (which would disprove my beliefs). At this point I believe the imagery is little different from imagery of nearby desert areas.

We think driving the alein head is just plain wrong. This just doesn't happen only with this series. It happens all over the place. Some people just don't care. When I was caching the E.T. Highway, I was there for the event, I had a Tahoe or Yukon behind me. They were driving in the pasture straigt to the caches. This was the first hundred or so. I couldn't believe it. I was thinking who are these yahoos. Come to find out one of the cachers has the most finds. Lost TOTAL respect for these guys.

 

FWIW, the part I did, it would be really hard to drive the shoulder because of the soft gravel and the slope. You have to drive slower so the people caching against time I don't see driving the shoulder. They would probably be the ones parking on the road.

Edited by the4dirtydogs
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I would bet serious money that those arguing against driving in the desert, have never been to the desert.

 

I am with you, I will double the pot. I have been out in the Nevada for the past 5 years and they are pretty flexable out there. don't tell them about the people who run the ATVs and four wheels out there all over the desert. ;)

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But I have to be honest when I say that either the maps haven't been updated yet (my preferred theory), or the tracks aren't visible in the satellite images (which would disprove my beliefs). At this point I believe the imagery is little different from imagery of nearby desert areas.

 

I don't have google earth at the moment, but google maps still show the Colonel in Rachel, which was removed in 2007. So I will go with the theory that they have not been updated in that area.

That's a pretty good piece of evidence!

 

37 38.760 / -115 45.050 for those scoring at home.

 

I think anyone seeing evidence of Alien Head damage in the satellite photos is probably projecting what they want to see.

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I would bet serious money that those arguing against driving in the desert, have never been to the desert.

 

I have earned a few desert credentials over the years. I don't think we need to resolve the pros and cons off road driving or ATV use here. So perhaps it should be limited to whether there is a difference between driving in the desert and driving in the desert on a rancher's land where the CO has asked that people not drive?

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I'm curious for Google Earth to update their satellite imagery to see if there's a big alien head of tracks visible now."

Looks like it...

5a7323e8-1a41-42f2-8f67-9806b8576652.jpg

 

I see a lady with flowing hair in a swim suit but no alien head

 

Probably because if Clan Riffster got that imagery from Google Earth (it looks identical to what I'm seeing in Google Earth Pro) you're looking at a photo taken in November 2006, three years before the trail existed.

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Or desperate to make up bad behavior that they see what isn't there. :laughing:

We have people admitting to driving in areas they shouldn't.

Check. The cache owner did request that people not drive the alien head. On the other hand, it may be that many of the caches can be reached from dirt roads and trails used by the ranchers.
We have vehicular damage occurring to a sensitive ecosystem.
This is open range land that is use for grazing cattle. BTW the ranchers don't ride horses, they drive around in pickups and ATVs. Not exactly a sensitive ecosystem. And tire tracks on the shoulder of a highway isn't exactly damage to the environment.
We have folks claiming finds on caches they never hunted for..
Irrelevant. puritans can condemn logging practices they don't agree with on any cache. It is not a power trail issue.
We have folks tossing down throw down caches instead of claiming a DNF..
Ditto.
We have folks replacing a hundred or so caches which they believed were pulled by a government entity..
It hasn't been shown conclusively that there were many cachers knowingly replacing caches they knew to have been removed by a government entity. It's possible that some did understand that these caches were removed by NDOT and decided to replace them anyhow. I believe there was an earlier incident on this trail where NDOT inadvertanly removed caches when doing some road work and these were later replaced. Without input from the agency as to why they are removing geocaches, it is simple a matter of opinion whether you see replacing the cache as bad behavior or not.
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I will bet that you haven't cached out that way yet. ;)

You would be right. However, that's not the wager we're discussing.

Lil Devil said s/he would "bet serious money that those arguing against driving in the desert, have never been to the desert"

You stated you would double whatever amount s/he stated.

I'm still waiting to see how much $$$ Lil Devil considers "serious".

I am by no means wealthy, so "serious" could be as little as four figures.

 

(Edit to correct gender misconception on my part)

Edited by Clan Riffster
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