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I don't want to imply that I considered all parts of the highway good places for caches, because that is definitely not the case. There were several areas where the road turned and went around blind curves. Why not simply pull off to the side you might ask? The answer is, we did where we could. However, there were some locations where there was really no safe place available to pull completely off of the road. Some shoulders were fairly narrow with a rather steep drop off if you happened to pull off a little too far. In those cases, we quite literally had to rely on our ears to listen for any traffic that might be coming down the road.

 

 

and yet, despite the danger, there were caches there...

 

I can honestly say that the presence of the roads did detract from my enjoyment of the area ... mainly because I was constantly thinking to myself, "Why would people be so inconsiderate as to drive their cars out here and rip up the landscape?" And whether you wish to agree with me or not, ripping up the landscape is exactly what has been done. Plantlife doesn't rebound as quickly in the desert because there is only a very short window where water is available for growth to occur.

 

 

and some of the plants that grow in the desert regions are quite rare. so in addition to ripping up the landscape, a vehicle can also be destroying some rare plant's habitat.

 

These roads will most likely take years, if not decades, to completely fade away...and I can assure you, they will be visible on aerial imagery when the state of Nevada gets around to updating them. If I had been the CO of this series and had gone out to see what has been done to the area, I personally would have archived and removed them all on the spot. There are many people out there that I'm sure are thankful that I am not the CO. haha :-) A shame really, because it is obvious that the owner made great efforts to make this an enjoyable series in an otherwise beautiful desert area. If I had to make recommendations of caches to do for others planning to visit the area, my honest opinion would be to skip the Alien Head and do the Kokopelli Man instead. For me, that was a much more rewarding experience in an area that has been better cared for.

 

For what it's worth, those are my thoughts and observations of the E.T. Highway and Alien Head, though I'm sure there will be plenty that disagree with me.

 

and very good thoughts indeed.

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As I also mentioned in my log, we were able to leave the car parked right on the road for most of the trek since traffic was not a problem.

Oh...so YOU were the cause of this whole mess with all of the accidents and near misses you caused by parking on the road. Thanks Marc.

 

LOL :laughing::laughing:

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As I also mentioned in my log, we were able to leave the car parked right on the road for most of the trek since traffic was not a problem.

Oh...so YOU were the cause of this whole mess with all of the accidents and near misses you caused by parking on the road. Thanks Marc.

 

LOL :laughing::laughing:

 

Typical Jersey drivers.

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But on a serious note, if you do and I hope you do, get out to the desert to cache you will see that it is hard to hurt that place. You will find so much junk out there just dumped everywhere so it isn't always a clean place. Either way, I enjoy it enough that I got back there at least once if not twice a year. Coming from a midwest boy that has grown up around greenery, I thought I would never be hooked by the desert but I am.

 

Spoken like a true Earthcache Master. :rolleyes:

 

Sorry, you must have me mixed up with a guy called Cav Scout. ;)

 

Careful, you'll cross the streams and get us all banned.

 

Also, from your profile: 3c7e38d2-f4d2-4ab5-91f6-0bf8039133f9.jpg

 

What are you trying to start or prove there? I was talking about the E.T. Highway but I can't figure out your agenda.

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Power trails amplify many bad parts of geocaching and have even morphed into a game that isn't geocaching. I suppose it is human nature to take things too far. Virtuals, ALRs etc...I've always said that they are fine if an area can support them. I thought the ET maybe was one, but that might not be the case. Groundspeak has done a good job growing this hobby, to their own detrement I feel. Geocaching is unique in that it is a better fit as a niche hobby. I've always been a little torn on several known geocaching problems. For example: years ago when there was only 4 LPC's in town and they got 12 visitors a year and now there may be 40 LPC's with 40 visitors a year. 48 total visits to 1600 total visits per year. They were no more legal years ago, but the chance for incident was way less. I feel power trails fall into a similar category. There has always been road PNG's, now they have exploded. No more illegal, just tons more of them and more suspicious, when cars are stopping so often. The problem just keeps getting bigger. Not sure what exactly Groundspeak can do, since it is not a normal business practice to stunt your growth, but I think if geocaching hasn't, it is somewhat close to it's threshold limit.

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ranchers have a certain amount of control of what goes on on their leased land. you cannot just drive willy nilly over the prairie or desert rangeland because it is blm controlled property leased by a rancher.

 

And whatever you do, be careful if cows are around. I know first hand that ranchers take cattle harassment seriously. Even if it is done by an ET or black ops program.

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...

 

4x4 & ATV usage is allowed on these lands, let alone hiking, walking and geocaching. Speaking of geocaching, the BLM has specifically authorized Geocaching on BLM lands;...

holy cow, that is how things get messed up!

 

unrestricted 4x4 and ATV on BLM land is not allowed. even out here where there is a lot BLM land you have to stay on designated routes that are signed open. if a route is not signed open it is considered closed. something that has had people up in arms about for years.

 

there are giant swaths of land that ARE ohv areas where the rules are much more lenient. there are these kiosks on the main roads into these areas that outline what is and what isn't allowed.

 

some hills of blm land in afton canyon has been fenced off because of ohv damage in the past. those scars will never heal.

 

you certainly need to know the rules and regs of where you are and don't make blanket statements about what is allowed and where.

 

and ranchers have a certain amount of control of what goes on on their leased land. you cannot just drive willy nilly over the prairie or desert rangeland because it is blm controlled property leased by a rancher.

 

in the desert, so much of the land is owned by private parties, not necessarily individuals but corporations like catellus (part of the old santa fe/southern pacific rail corporations), old or current mining claims and prospects. there are no visible boundaries, but the ownership can change from one quadrant to the next.

 

so back to the ET series. how many of the land owners were contacted before the caches were placed or replaced or thrown?

 

Where to start on this? There's a lot stated that isn't quite correct...

 

1. As was mentioned elsewhere, there are different classifications for usage. Open, limited, & closed. In open lands you do not have to stick to roads or trails. Limited, you have to stick to certain trails. Closed, you're not allowed motorized access. As best as I can determine, the Alien Head is classified as Open. If you have other information about the status of the land the Alien Head is on, please provide a link. (I'll point out again, that the CO requested that the Alien Head be done on foot, which is the equivalent of treating it as a 'closed' area).

 

2. Ranchers pay for grazing rights. They cannot limit access to BLM lands that they lease. I got that from the BLM website. If you have a link to a BLM resource that states differently, please provide it.

 

3. Land ownership maps are available on the web. 86% of the state is owned by the government. The portion of the trail I looked at, which included the Alien Head, was BLM land. If you have evidence of Alien Head or E.T. caches being on private land, please provide a link to your resources.

Edited by Ecylram
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Spoken like a true Earthcache Master. :rolleyes:
Sorry, you must have me mixed up with a guy called Cav Scout. ;)
Careful, you'll cross the streams and get us all banned.

 

Also, from your profile: 3c7e38d2-f4d2-4ab5-91f6-0bf8039133f9.jpg

What are you trying to start or prove there? I was talking about the E.T. Highway but I can't figure out your agenda.
You were taking part in the discussion about how fragile or not the desert is. Earth Science stuff. You know, the kind of stuff covered by an Earth Cache Master. :blink:
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But on a serious note, if you do and I hope you do, get out to the desert to cache you will see that it is hard to hurt that place. You will find so much junk out there just dumped everywhere so it isn't always a clean place. Either way, I enjoy it enough that I got back there at least once if not twice a year. Coming from a midwest boy that has grown up around greenery, I thought I would never be hooked by the desert but I am.

 

Spoken like a true Earthcache Master. :rolleyes:

 

Sorry, you must have me mixed up with a guy called Cav Scout. ;)

 

Careful, you'll cross the streams and get us all banned.

 

Also, from your profile: 3c7e38d2-f4d2-4ab5-91f6-0bf8039133f9.jpg

 

What are you trying to start or prove there? I was talking about the E.T. Highway but I can't figure out your agenda.

You sure are one suspicious guy, Joranda.

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I came here looking for facts about what's going on in Nye County today and all I am seeing is a lot of silly stuff. Here are some facts I received after posting a note of concern on the Nye County web site. These emails are now a day+ old. I'm sure they have contacted the NDOT to sort out if they had any involvement in this, but since the removal of caches was isolated to Nye County that seems unlikely. The bottomline here is that the Leadership of Nye County is denying that they had anything to do with the removal of the ET Highway caches, so if someone acted in Nye county they acted without authority:

 

From: Elizabeth Pittsley <epittsley@co.nye.nv.us>

Date: February 7, 2011 6:34:50 PM CST

Subject: RE: Online Form Submittal: Report a Concern

 

Thank you for your concern. Rick Osborne, Nye County Manager did respond to the 20+ e-mails we have already received. His response is below. Also, Joni Eastley, Nye County Commissioner is contacting the Nevada Dept of Transportation to find out what is happening. Part of an e-mail from her is below. We will keep you apprised of any information.

 

Take care,

 

Liz

 

Elizabeth (Liz) Pittsley

 

Administrative Secretary

Nye County Administration

2100 E. Walt Williams Dr. #100

Pahrump, NV 89048

775/751-7075

775/751-7093-Fax

 

epittsley@co.nye.nv.us

 

All,

 

I do not know anything about this. No one ever contacted me, or, anyone else in Nye County, that I have been able to determine thus far. We didn’t remove anything from our roadways. Perhaps you should contact Nevada Dept. of Transportation. They can be reached at

 

Nevada Department of Transportation

1263 South Stewart Street

Carson City, Nevada 89712

Telephone: 775-888-7000

Fax: 775-888-7115

General Information: info@dot.state.nv.us

 

You could contact our Public Works to explain your plans @ 775-751-6843. If Nye County has any objections to what you plan, you could determine that with a phone call. Neither Nye County Public Works or the County Manager’s office has information on what you reference in the emails to us. I can assure you that we appreciate folks coming to our area of Nevada and are as accommodating as possible.

 

Best Regards,

 

Rick

 

Rick Osborne Sr., CPFA, ICMA-CM

 

Nye County Manager

 

Phone 775-751-7075

 

Email rosborne@co.nye.nv.us

 

I’m tracking this down right now. This area is in Commissioner Wichman’s district so I will work with her. She may actually be the one you’ll hear from.

 

 

Joni Eastley

 

Nye County Commission

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<snip>

and some of the plants that grow in the desert regions are quite rare. so in addition to ripping up the landscape, a vehicle can also be destroying some rare plant's habitat.

<snip>

 

smiley_ROFLMAO.gif

 

On open range land? Now that is a good one.

 

Why wouldn't that be possible?

 

Try googling "Nevada Rare Plant Atlas index"

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<snip>

and some of the plants that grow in the desert regions are quite rare. so in addition to ripping up the landscape, a vehicle can also be destroying some rare plant's habitat.

<snip>

 

smiley_ROFLMAO.gif

 

On open range land? Now that is a good one.

I still maintain that just because things are being done that damage the environment, that it doesn't automatically enable us to do the same.

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I came here looking for facts about what's going on in Nye County today and all I am seeing is a lot of silly stuff. Here are some facts I received after posting a note of concern on the Nye County web site. These emails are now a day+ old. I'm sure they have contacted the NDOT to sort out if they had any involvement in this, but since the removal of caches was isolated to Nye County that seems unlikely. The bottomline here is that the Leadership of Nye County is denying that they had anything to do with the removal of the ET Highway caches, so if someone acted in Nye county they acted without authority:

 

From: Elizabeth Pittsley <epittsley@co.nye.nv.us>

Date: February 7, 2011 6:34:50 PM CST

Subject: RE: Online Form Submittal: Report a Concern

 

Thank you for your concern. Rick Osborne, Nye County Manager did respond to the 20+ e-mails we have already received. His response is below. Also, Joni Eastley, Nye County Commissioner is contacting the Nevada Dept of Transportation to find out what is happening. Part of an e-mail from her is below. We will keep you apprised of any information.

 

Take care,

 

Liz

 

Elizabeth (Liz) Pittsley

 

Administrative Secretary

Nye County Administration

2100 E. Walt Williams Dr. #100

Pahrump, NV 89048

775/751-7075

775/751-7093-Fax

 

epittsley@co.nye.nv.us

 

All,

 

I do not know anything about this. No one ever contacted me, or, anyone else in Nye County, that I have been able to determine thus far. We didn't remove anything from our roadways. Perhaps you should contact Nevada Dept. of Transportation. They can be reached at

 

Nevada Department of Transportation

1263 South Stewart Street

Carson City, Nevada 89712

Telephone: 775-888-7000

Fax: 775-888-7115

General Information: info@dot.state.nv.us

 

You could contact our Public Works to explain your plans @ 775-751-6843. If Nye County has any objections to what you plan, you could determine that with a phone call. Neither Nye County Public Works or the County Manager's office has information on what you reference in the emails to us. I can assure you that we appreciate folks coming to our area of Nevada and are as accommodating as possible.

 

Best Regards,

 

Rick

 

Rick Osborne Sr., CPFA, ICMA-CM

 

Nye County Manager

 

Phone 775-751-7075

 

Email rosborne@co.nye.nv.us

 

I'm tracking this down right now. This area is in Commissioner Wichman's district so I will work with her. She may actually be the one you'll hear from.

 

 

Joni Eastley

 

Nye County Commission

 

Awesome!!! Thanks for the facts as they now stand. Waiting eagerly for the followup. When are you thinking about heading out there? Need company?

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ranchers have a certain amount of control of what goes on on their leased land. you cannot just drive willy nilly over the prairie or desert rangeland because it is blm controlled property leased by a rancher.

 

And whatever you do, be careful if cows are around. I know first hand that ranchers take cattle harassment seriously. Even if it is done by an ET or black ops program.

 

for sure!

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<snip>

and some of the plants that grow in the desert regions are quite rare. so in addition to ripping up the landscape, a vehicle can also be destroying some rare plant's habitat.

<snip>

 

smiley_ROFLMAO.gif

 

On open range land? Now that is a good one.

 

are you serious? grazing has been the cause of more than one species extirpation. and it can be a plant on open range land. there are many rare species on open range, prairie, desert that are under threat from a variety of sources, vehicle use, grazing, etc. you should really do some study before making such an uneducated and inane comment.

Edited by RedShoesGirl
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<snip>

and some of the plants that grow in the desert regions are quite rare. so in addition to ripping up the landscape, a vehicle can also be destroying some rare plant's habitat.

<snip>

 

smiley_ROFLMAO.gif

 

On open range land? Now that is a good one.

 

are you serious? grazing has been the cause of more than one species extirpation. and it can be a plant on open range land. there are many rare species on open range, prairie, desert that are under threat from a variety of sources, vehicle use, grazing, etc. you should really do some study before making such an uneducated and inane comment.

The good thing about cows grazing on the open range is that they will fertilize the same range a little further down the road! ;)

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The bottomline here is that the Leadership of Nye County is denying that they had anything to do with the removal of the ET Highway caches, so if someone acted in Nye county they acted without authority:

 

In a way, we are back to Post 5 [county commissioners do not know what is happening]. The CO's statement that was reported earlier (post 75) hints about NDOT concerns. Perhaps. Perhaps not. It sort of fits in with the nature of Area 51. Why should the disappearance of hundreds of caches in the area be any more clear? Maybe it has something to do with abductions.

 

But thank you for tracking down this part of the story.

Edited by mulvaney
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So 100 caches were stolen. Next it is implied that a low-level DOT employee took them, so they were replaced.

 

This is disturbing in a few ways.

 

-Someone with a GPS uploaded the coords and took a lot of time in removing them, or

-They are so easy to find that a GPS is not needed.

 

lf someone from the DOT did remove them, simply writing him off as "low level" and replacing them will not fix the problem. After all, was there a high level person that approved them in the first place? And what will they do next, now that they are replaced? Move on to regular caches? How will this help permission causes in the future if there is the thought that geocachers will ignore concerns of regular employees and do their own thing?

 

Or perhaps they were replaced to cover up the fact that there were many signatures missing in the logbooks.

 

Or perhaps aliens took them. After leaving crop circles in fields for many years, now the extraterrestrials

are upset that humans are tattooing pictures of them in the desert? :ph34r:

 

I dont think that powertrails should go away, or that Groundspeak will make them go. But they should recognise them as being different, and treat them as different with respect to safety, permissions, and environmental damage. If there are individuals doing damage to the desert, it is a bit different than if an organized group is doing it and turning themself into a target.

Edited by 4wheelin_fool
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Feedback from the Sheriff's office in Nye County.

 

Caching is ok with them and all come down and enjoy it. But.... and it is a big But. He said the NDOT has and will remove all the ones next to the highway as it has become a real problem and the Cachers are not following the rules. If the Caches are placed 100 yards off the road they have no problem's with that. They are going to start ticketing to those they Catch leaving a film canister anywhere near the road for littering. He is a Cacher himself and loves it but he also has to uphold the laws and safety of their County. He says please enjoy but follow all the laws of common sense.

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Feedback from the Sheriff's office in Nye County.

 

Caching is ok with them and all come down and enjoy it. But.... and it is a big But. He said the NDOT has and will remove all the ones next to the highway as it has become a real problem and the Cachers are not following the rules. If the Caches are placed 100 yards off the road they have no problem's with that. They are going to start ticketing to those they Catch leaving a film canister anywhere near the road for littering. He is a Cacher himself and loves it but he also has to uphold the laws and safety of their County. He says please enjoy but follow all the laws of common sense.

 

I see you're in Oregon and I'm guessing you got this via email. Would you provide the original message to the CO on this series so they can address it appropriately?

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Perhaps someone should call the "Little Ale Inn" and see what they have to say?

 

I am sure the good folks at the Inn will be glad to tell you about aliens who have visited, geocachers, and perhaps any other rumors. But I will stick with what I originally posted - it is up to the CO, Groundspeak, and appropriate officials to work things out. If I understand the CO's statement, the NDOT has some concerns. It would not surprise me if there was a general lack of communication in the area between road crews, county officials, and the state. It is a fairly isolated area.

 

In the meantime, the issue will not be resolved on the forums so I would leave that to the people involved and not take it on myself to either replace 100s of caches or ignore what the CO has to say about driving the Alien Head. It is a rather simple matter.

Edited by mulvaney
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There's been so much stuff supposedly been said by different people I figured it would be good to go directly to the source and since NDOT has been contacted and people had said that the people at the INN told them that about NDOT why not call the Inn and get a first hand account.

 

It would be good to see that entire email as I didn't see anything about it on the Nye Co sherrifs office site.

 

And it should be simple but obviously it's not as there are 6 pages to this discussion already.

Edited by Cindyj2
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Feedback from the Sheriff's office in Nye County.

 

Caching is ok with them and all come down and enjoy it. But.... and it is a big But. He said the NDOT has and will remove all the ones next to the highway as it has become a real problem and the Cachers are not following the rules. If the Caches are placed 100 yards off the road they have no problem's with that. They are going to start ticketing to those they Catch leaving a film canister anywhere near the road for littering. He is a Cacher himself and loves it but he also has to uphold the laws and safety of their County. He says please enjoy but follow all the laws of common sense.

 

I see you're in Oregon and I'm guessing you got this via email. Would you provide the original message to the CO on this series so they can address it appropriately?

 

Already did was second post on here. and no I cannot provide this was a personal phone call from the Sheriff himself. But here is the Number if you care to call them yourself.

 

Hi my name is Mike Dolfin, I am the Northern Area Commander for The Nye County Sheriff’s Department. Larry if you can please call me at xxx-yyy-zzzz (phone number removed by moderator), I can explain to you what is happening with the State Highway department.

Edited by Brad_W
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This is from the Sheriff in Nye County and his responses to it.

 

I wasn't aware of any Geocaching within Nye County over 99.9% of ET highway is in Lincoln County. I do know what Geocaching is however and understand it is popular.

 

The highway dept. is a state agency. I will forward this to the north area commander to look into this on the Nye County side. I suggest that if you have Cache's in Lincoln County you should contact them as well.

 

When I have additional information I will re-contact you. Looking at your message does give an indication that there was a safety issue concern.

 

If you have any questions you may contact me.

 

Regards

 

Sent from the Mobile Office of Nye County Sheriff Tony DeMeo

 

We will see what we can do to assist making sure you have a great event,

 

Tony

 

 

Sent from the Mobile Office of Nye County Sheriff Tony DeMeo

 

This is the second post and says he didn't know anything about what was going on really?

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This is from the Sheriff in Nye County and his responses to it.

 

I wasn't aware of any Geocaching within Nye County over 99.9% of ET highway is in Lincoln County. I do know what Geocaching is however and understand it is popular.

 

The highway dept. is a state agency. I will forward this to the north area commander to look into this on the Nye County side. I suggest that if you have Cache's in Lincoln County you should contact them as well.

 

When I have additional information I will re-contact you. Looking at your message does give an indication that there was a safety issue concern.

 

If you have any questions you may contact me.

 

Regards

 

Sent from the Mobile Office of Nye County Sheriff Tony DeMeo

 

We will see what we can do to assist making sure you have a great event,

 

Tony

 

Sent from the Mobile Office of Nye County Sheriff Tony DeMeo

 

This is the second post and says he didn't know anything about what was going on really?

 

Granted, the two stories don't appear to match up ("no caching" vs "active cacher"), but I'll assume that something just got lost in the translation. Which is usually the problem with 2nd hand information. Sounds like the CO is contacting or will contact the Sheriff's department and will get the straight answer.

 

With miniscule bits of information to work on, it sounds like if safety concerns are met the trail will continue. When the dust settles, I'm betting the trail will be getting smaller and it will take longer to complete the series. But then I'm speculating and there's been too much of that already in this thread.

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Please get your facts right and if you can't because you haven't been there then don't bother spewing lies.

 

I resent this personal attack. We certainly disagree. I may even have made statements which will eventually prove to have been incorrect. That is not "spewing lies," and you owe me an apology. (I won't hold my breath waiting for it, though.)

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Feedback from the Sheriff's office in Nye County.

 

Caching is ok with them and all come down and enjoy it. But.... and it is a big But. He said the NDOT has and will remove all the ones next to the highway as it has become a real problem and the Cachers are not following the rules. If the Caches are placed 100 yards off the road they have no problem's with that. They are going to start ticketing to those they Catch leaving a film canister anywhere near the road for littering. He is a Cacher himself and loves it but he also has to uphold the laws and safety of their County. He says please enjoy but follow all the laws of common sense.

 

Depending on others to use common sense, Oh yea, like that's gonna happen...

 

I have nothing against power trails or numbers hounds. But you do see more problems caused when the two come together (the nature of the beast). This is especially prevalent with a cache series like this where competition (with yourself or someone else) is the driving force.

 

In my mind, if a power trail is causing problems out in the middle of no where, then i would think it would be pretty tough to actually find a place where it would work without causing some grief. It needs to be weighed good and bad,,, how much good does a power trail do versus how many problems are caused by it's existence.

 

On ET,,, it provides fun for cachers who like competition and smilies. It may also be bringing a few tourist dollars into the area. Other than this, it doesn't seem to have a whole lot else going for it. We've seen evidence of cachers throwing common sense right out the window. Moving caches, not finding and then dropping new containers, groups splitting up and leap frogging, driving in places they shouldn't be, and likely causing problems with other traffic, all in the quest of the mighty smilie.

 

To be honest, i wish power trails were separated from geocaching.com and listed on another website. This is not geocaching as i've come to know it.

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... Sounds like these power trails need to go back to the basics a bit more and do things by the guidelines otherwise what are they there for?
In what way do you believe that these caches are in violation of the guidelines.

I've read every post to this thread ...

That's a bit surprising, since you appear to have totally missed my reply to your earlier post.
... and I think that if I were the co and people state their bad practices in their logs like driving where they are not supposed to and such should have their logs deleted and those smileys taken away.
Deleting those logs would violate the guidelines.
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Please get your facts right and if you can't because you haven't been there then don't bother spewing lies.

 

I resent this personal attack. We certainly disagree. I may even have made statements which will eventually prove to have been incorrect. That is not "spewing lies," and you owe me an apology. (I won't hold my breath waiting for it, though.)

 

While GeoGeeBee and I are on different sides of this discussion...he's right. I have not seen anything that he's written that would constitute a deliberate mistelling of a fact. He has different opinion regarding the E.T. and the environmental impact than you do (and different from mine). But that's 'ok'.

 

It's his right to have a different opinion, but that doesn't make him a liar.

Edited by Ecylram
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... and I think that if I were the co and people state their bad practices in their logs like driving where they are not supposed to and such should have their logs deleted and those smileys taken away.
Deleting those logs would violate the guidelines.

Cindyj2... please understand that this is an opinion that has been debated endlessly here, and not necessarily a fact. Discussing it again in this thread would, however, take us way off topic very quickly.
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... and I think that if I were the co and people state their bad practices in their logs like driving where they are not supposed to and such should have their logs deleted and those smileys taken away.
Deleting those logs would violate the guidelines.

How so? They seem to fit neatly within the "Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements" part of cache maintenance. The owner specified not to drive, so those logs are not "within the stated requirements."

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This is from the Sheriff in Nye County and his responses to it.

 

I wasn't aware of any Geocaching within Nye County over 99.9% of ET highway is in Lincoln County. I do know what Geocaching is however and understand it is popular.

 

The highway dept. is a state agency. I will forward this to the north area commander to look into this on the Nye County side. I suggest that if you have Cache's in Lincoln County you should contact them as well.

 

When I have additional information I will re-contact you. Looking at your message does give an indication that there was a safety issue concern.

 

If you have any questions you may contact me.

 

Regards

 

Sent from the Mobile Office of Nye County Sheriff Tony DeMeo

 

We will see what we can do to assist making sure you have a great event,

 

Tony

 

Sent from the Mobile Office of Nye County Sheriff Tony DeMeo

 

This is the second post and says he didn't know anything about what was going on really?

 

Granted, the two stories don't appear to match up ("no caching" vs "active cacher"), but I'll assume that something just got lost in the translation. Which is usually the problem with 2nd hand information. Sounds like the CO is contacting or will contact the Sheriff's department and will get the straight answer.

 

With miniscule bits of information to work on, it sounds like if safety concerns are met the trail will continue. When the dust settles, I'm betting the trail will be getting smaller and it will take longer to complete the series. But then I'm speculating and there's been too much of that already in this thread.

 

One is from Tony and the other is from his area Commander Dolfin. I am just passing on what was said via phone call. You have a phone you all can call yourselves and get the info from them. If you want to pick apart a thread that is up to you. I provided the Phone number check it out yourself.

 

"Hi my name is Mike Dolfin, I am the Northern Area Commander for The Nye County Sheriff’s Department. Larry if you can please call me at 775-482-8101, I can explain to you what is happening with the State Highway department."

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Please get your facts right and if you can't because you haven't been there then don't bother spewing lies.

 

I resent this personal attack. We certainly disagree. I may even have made statements which will eventually prove to have been incorrect. That is not "spewing lies," and you owe me an apology. (I won't hold my breath waiting for it, though.)

I agree. You spread information that was obviously incorrect and easy to prove wrong. That doesn't make you a liar.

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... and I think that if I were the co and people state their bad practices in their logs like driving where they are not supposed to and such should have their logs deleted and those smileys taken away.
Deleting those logs would violate the guidelines.

How so? They seem to fit neatly within the "Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements" part of cache maintenance. The owner specified not to drive, so those logs are not "within the stated requirements."

So what you are saying is that I can list a cache that requires a person to park at a specific place and walk to the cache, say a few miles away. The problem is, I can make no such requirement because of the ALR guideline. Cache owners do not have teh authority to create 'stated requirements' beyond 'sign the dang log'. Edited by sbell111
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This is from the Sheriff in Nye County and his responses to it.

 

I wasn't aware of any Geocaching within Nye County over 99.9% of ET highway is in Lincoln County. I do know what Geocaching is however and understand it is popular.

 

The highway dept. is a state agency. I will forward this to the north area commander to look into this on the Nye County side. I suggest that if you have Cache's in Lincoln County you should contact them as well.

 

When I have additional information I will re-contact you. Looking at your message does give an indication that there was a safety issue concern.

 

If you have any questions you may contact me.

 

Regards

 

Sent from the Mobile Office of Nye County Sheriff Tony DeMeo

 

We will see what we can do to assist making sure you have a great event,

 

Tony

 

Sent from the Mobile Office of Nye County Sheriff Tony DeMeo

 

This is the second post and says he didn't know anything about what was going on really?

 

Granted, the two stories don't appear to match up ("no caching" vs "active cacher"), but I'll assume that something just got lost in the translation. Which is usually the problem with 2nd hand information. Sounds like the CO is contacting or will contact the Sheriff's department and will get the straight answer.

 

With miniscule bits of information to work on, it sounds like if safety concerns are met the trail will continue. When the dust settles, I'm betting the trail will be getting smaller and it will take longer to complete the series. But then I'm speculating and there's been too much of that already in this thread.

 

One is from Tony and the other is from his area Commander Dolfin. I am just passing on what was said via phone call. You have a phone you all can call yourselves and get the info from them. If you want to pick apart a thread that is up to you. I provided the Phone number check it out yourself.

 

"Hi my name is Mike Dolfin, I am the Northern Area Commander for The Nye County Sheriff’s Department. Larry if you can please call me at xxx-yyy-zzzz (phone number removed by moderator), I can explain to you what is happening with the State Highway department."

All of us need to butt out of the situation and allow the cache owner to resolve it. Dozens of random contacts from interested geocachers is not going to do anything but make the situation worse. Edited by Brad_W
removed phone number
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Agreed. As posted earlier, that long stretch of road only gets about 200 cars a day combined. Cachers have reported only seeing a half dozen cars in several hours of driving. I've been through the logs and have seen no references to accidents with other vehicles.

 

Just wanted to make a minor point with this info:

 

I don't recall seeing anyone dispute the 200 cars a day figure so I did a little math: Dividing that by 24 hours gives us 8.33 cars/hour. Multiply that by 13 (that's how long group from my area said it took them IIRC) and you get @108. That's roughly 1 car passing by every 10 caches or 7 minutes. While not rush hour traffic by any means, it's not insubstantial either- especially considering the remoteness of the area.

Many people have posted that they didn't see nearly that many vehicles.
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... and I think that if I were the co and people state their bad practices in their logs like driving where they are not supposed to and such should have their logs deleted and those smileys taken away.
Deleting those logs would violate the guidelines.

How so? They seem to fit neatly within the "Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements" part of cache maintenance. The owner specified not to drive, so those logs are not "within the stated requirements."

So what you are saying is that I can list a cache that requires a person to park at a specific place and walk to the cache, say a few miles away. The problem is, I can make no such requirement because of the ALR guideline. Cache owners do not have teh authority to create 'stated requirements' beyond 'sign the dang log'.

If the logger violates a law, then I would gladly delete it. Cachers blatantly post on their logs that they replaced containers and counted it as a find for some reason. Not sure how they found it, it was nice of them to replace it for the next cacher I suppose. I would think a CO could delete preloads, throwdowns and any illegal finding practices. If I had permission to hide a cache at a business, that locks its gates at 9:00 PM and a cacher says in their log, that they found it at 2 AM, do you think it is deletable under the guidelines? All that being said, I don't know if driving to the Alien head is legal or not, poor taste and lack of character to go against the CO, and poor taste to defend the behavior as well.

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... and I think that if I were the co and people state their bad practices in their logs like driving where they are not supposed to and such should have their logs deleted and those smileys taken away.
Deleting those logs would violate the guidelines.

How so? They seem to fit neatly within the "Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements" part of cache maintenance. The owner specified not to drive, so those logs are not "within the stated requirements."

So what you are saying is that I can list a cache that requires a person to park at a specific place and walk to the cache, say a few miles away. The problem is, I can make no such requirement because of the ALR guideline. Cache owners do not have teh authority to create 'stated requirements' beyond 'sign the dang log'.

No. Cachers don't have to use your parking coordinates. To require it would be an ALR and not allowed.

 

Telling cachers "do not drive on the sidewalk" is not an ALR. It's telling them to refrain from doing something that would be both illegal and a detriment to geocaching.

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If the logger violates a law, then I would gladly delete it.

There's no evidence of any cachers breaking the law regarding this series (beyond a few who have apparently parked partway in the road).

Cachers blatantly post on their logs that they replaced containers and counted it as a find for some reason. Not sure how they found it, it was nice of them to replace it for the next cacher I suppose. I would think a CO could delete preloads, throwdowns and any illegal finding practices.

None of the practices you list are 'illegal'. Each has been left to the cache owner to decide whther it is acceptable. If a cache owner did not agree with those practices, he could delete the finds, taking the position that the proper log book was not signed.

If I had permission to hide a cache at a business, that locks its gates at 9:00 PM and a cacher says in their log, that they found it at 2 AM, do you think it is deletable under the guidelines?

The guidelines would not allow a cache finder to be retricted from logging a find in that instance. The proper thing to do would be for the cache owner to request that the log is changed. As a cache owner, if the log was not changed, I would delete the log with an explanation that it could be relogged without the offending verbiage. Note that this differs from Cindy and Sax's position because I am not restricting the person from logging the cache (ie 'taking the smiley away')
All that being said, I don't know if driving to the Alien head is legal or not, poor taste and lack of character to go against the CO, and poor taste to defend the behavior as well.
I can't figure out what you are trying to say here.
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... and I think that if I were the co and people state their bad practices in their logs like driving where they are not supposed to and such should have their logs deleted and those smileys taken away.
Deleting those logs would violate the guidelines.

How so? They seem to fit neatly within the "Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements" part of cache maintenance. The owner specified not to drive, so those logs are not "within the stated requirements."

So what you are saying is that I can list a cache that requires a person to park at a specific place and walk to the cache, say a few miles away. The problem is, I can make no such requirement because of the ALR guideline. Cache owners do not have teh authority to create 'stated requirements' beyond 'sign the dang log'.

No. Cachers don't have to use your parking coordinates. To require it would be an ALR and not allowed.

 

Telling cachers "do not drive on the sidewalk" is not an ALR. It's telling them to refrain from doing something that would be both illegal and a detriment to geocaching.

Of course, if you then delete the log because the cacher drove on the sidewalk, you are in violation of the guidelines.

 

Is it also your position that you can tell someone not to speed on the way to your cache?

Edited by sbell111
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... and I think that if I were the co and people state their bad practices in their logs like driving where they are not supposed to and such should have their logs deleted and those smileys taken away.
Deleting those logs would violate the guidelines.

How so? They seem to fit neatly within the "Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements" part of cache maintenance. The owner specified not to drive, so those logs are not "within the stated requirements."

So what you are saying is that I can list a cache that requires a person to park at a specific place and walk to the cache, say a few miles away. The problem is, I can make no such requirement because of the ALR guideline. Cache owners do not have teh authority to create 'stated requirements' beyond 'sign the dang log'.

No. Cachers don't have to use your parking coordinates. To require it would be an ALR and not allowed.

 

Telling cachers "do not drive on the sidewalk" is not an ALR. It's telling them to refrain from doing something that would be both illegal and a detriment to geocaching.

Of course, if you then delete the log because the cacher drove on the sidewalk, you are in violation of the guidelines.

 

Is it also your position that you can tell someone not to speed on the way to your cache?

You're gonna get this thread shut down if you keep speeding like this.

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