FTF situation opinions

1.4k · January 7, 2011

Wanted opinions of a FTF I recently found pulled up to ground zero quickly found the cache but the tricky part was figuring out how to get the log sheet out took me a little while but I was successful and found a blank log sheet signed it put it back and was on my way home to log online my FTF. When I arrived home another cacher had logged that he found the cache shortly after publication maybe before me but he could not figure out how to get the log sheet out so he wrote his initials on the outside of the container and was claiming the FTF. What is your opinion regarding this situation......just curious, I would think you would have to sign the physical log first to claim the FTF, but that's just my opinion.

And yes I do know that the whole FTF game is a side game and is not recognized by GS but just would like some opinions

Scubasonic

January 7, 2011

Wanted opinions of a FTF I recently found pulled up to ground zero quickly found the cache but the tricky part was figuring out how to get the log sheet out took me a little while but I was successful and found a blank log sheet signed it put it back and was on my way home to log online my FTF. When I arrived home another cacher had logged that he found the cache shortly after publication maybe before me but he could not figure out how to get the log sheet out so he wrote his initials on the outside of the container and was claiming the FTF. What is your opinion regarding this situation......just curious, I would think you would have to sign the physical log first to claim the FTF, but that's just my opinion.

And yes I do know that the whole FTF game is a side game and is not recognized by GS but just would like some opinions

Scubasonic

I believe you sign the log to claim the ftf. That would be like signing the outside of a monkey puzzle cache and claiming a find. You are the FTF on another one. Congrats, you hit 1300 yet.

1.4k · January 8, 2011

Wanted opinions of a FTF I recently found pulled up to ground zero quickly found the cache but the tricky part was figuring out how to get the log sheet out took me a little while but I was successful and found a blank log sheet signed it put it back and was on my way home to log online my FTF. When I arrived home another cacher had logged that he found the cache shortly after publication maybe before me but he could not figure out how to get the log sheet out so he wrote his initials on the outside of the container and was claiming the FTF. What is your opinion regarding this situation......just curious, I would think you would have to sign the physical log first to claim the FTF, but that's just my opinion.

And yes I do know that the whole FTF game is a side game and is not recognized by GS but just would like some opinions

Scubasonic

I believe you sign the log to claim the ftf. That would be like signing the outside of a monkey puzzle cache and claiming a find. You are the FTF on another one. Congrats, you hit 1300 yet.

Not yet hey but thanks for the response

SS

January 8, 2011

I believe you sign the log to claim the ftf. That would be like signing the outside of a monkey puzzle cache and claiming a find. You are the FTF on another one. Congrats, you hit 1300 yet.

^^^ What they said ^^^

1.5k · January 8, 2011

I believe you sign the log to claim the ftf. That would be like signing the outside of a monkey puzzle cache and claiming a find. You are the FTF on another one. Congrats, you hit 1300 yet.

^^^ What they said ^^^

Agreed.

1.3k · January 8, 2011

It sounds like the other person found the cache first, so they' be FTF.

22k · January 8, 2011

... just would like some opinions

Scubasonic

Drop the issue and move on. That's what I did on a FTF conflict. Even after the person finally acknowledged they weren't first I decided the whole thing didn't mean crap. I got better things to do than argue about a dang find, much less argue about the time of day.

Edited January 8, 2011 by BlueDeuce

3.6k · January 8, 2011

It isnt the end of the world. Move on.

5.3k · January 8, 2011

As you are so very fond of saying to others, "if you can't hack the competition then don't do it." You lost. Buck up and deal with it.

8.3k · January 8, 2011

Wanted opinions of a FTF I recently found pulled up to ground zero quickly found the cache but the tricky part was figuring out how to get the log sheet out took me a little while but I was successful and found a blank log sheet signed it put it back and was on my way home to log online my FTF. When I arrived home another cacher had logged that he found the cache shortly after publication maybe before me but he could not figure out how to get the log sheet out so he wrote his initials on the outside of the container and was claiming the FTF. What is your opinion regarding this situation......just curious, I would think you would have to sign the physical log first to claim the FTF, but that's just my opinion.

And yes I do know that the whole FTF game is a side game and is not recognized by GS but just would like some opinions

Scubasonic

And what prevents your from claiming FTF? Just log it, claim the FTF and claim your first to sign the log. I doubt black SUV's will show up.

January 8, 2011

As you are so very fond of saying to others, "if you can't hack the competition then don't do it." You lost. Buck up and deal with it.

lol, no he didn't. The guy who couldn't hack it and find the log within the cache lost.

2.8k · January 8, 2011

I Agree, first to sign the log is FTF. But i guess it will fall on the CO to assign FTF. Weather they check the cache log or go buy the internet log will be up to them. That is if they want to acknowledge FTF in the cache description.

1.8k · January 8, 2011

But i guess it will fall on the CO to assign FTF.

If I were the CO I wouldn't touch issues like this.

19k · January 8, 2011

I Agree, first to sign the log is FTF. But i guess it will fall on the CO to assign FTF. Weather they check the cache log or go buy the internet log will be up to them. That is if they want to acknowledge FTF in the cache description.

"Assign FTF"? :blink: Uh, no. I don't think so. Well... OK, under the conditions stated in your last sentence (bolded), yes, I guess you could say that they can do that, but that's about where their power to "assign FTF" ends.

3.6k · January 8, 2011

But i guess it will fall on the CO to assign FTF.

If I were the CO I wouldn't touch issues like this.

If I were the CO, nobody will get the FTF. If you cant act like adult, no FTF for you.

19k · January 8, 2011

But i guess it will fall on the CO to assign FTF.

If I were the CO I wouldn't touch issues like this.

If I were the CO, nobody will get the FTF. If you cant act like adult, no FTF for you.

That is also not in a cache owner's power to do, although I love the idea!!

2.8k · January 8, 2011

An FTF isn't recorded anywhere but the cache log and buy a CO's recognition of FTF in the description. Anyone can log a find at any time and claim an FTF weather they tried looking for the cache or not. Anyone can claim a FTF anytime they want. But the proof is the physical log in the cache and further recognized by the CO on the web page if they are inclined to do so. So how is it not in the CO's power? FTF is a side game with no official rules or enforcement. So in the end its up to the CO to decide the FTF. Just like its up to the CO to decide if a find is legit or not and has the ability to delete the find online. In this case the first person claiming FTF didn't sign the log. So if the CO wanted to he could make the call that the first person didn't officially make the find since the log wasn't signed and delete the online log.

Edited January 8, 2011 by mpilchfamily

22k · January 8, 2011

...

Edited January 8, 2011 by BlueDeuce

January 8, 2011

Quite honestly, writing on the cache container is almost like claiming FTF for being the first to GZ. Under usual circumstances first to sign the log is the FTF. Non-transferable and non-negotiable by the authority of a CO. It just happens, it isn't a title or reward. It is an event of sorts. If you signed it first I feel it is all yours.

4.5k · January 8, 2011

My opinion is that i need to sign the log before i claim the find. If i'm not able to remove a cache's log for some reason, then it's a big ole dnf for me.

As far as this cache is concerned, i as a cache owner would NOT appreciate anyone signing the outside of the container. I'd be tempted to delete a cacher's find log if i found out he or she defaced my cache...

January 8, 2011

Oh yeah, I found that cache, too. Not really sure what cache you're talking about or even where in the world you are, but I found it. Before the other guy, even. I signed a tree near the cache because I couldn't get the cache open.

19k · January 8, 2011

An FTF isn't recorded anywhere but the cache log and buy a CO's recognition of FTF in the description. Anyone can log a find at any time and claim an FTF weather they tried looking for the cache or not. Anyone can claim a FTF anytime they want. But the proof is the physical log in the cache and further recognized by the CO on the web page if they are inclined to do so. So how is it not in the CO's power? FTF is a side game with no official rules or enforcement. So in the end its up to the CO to decide the FTF. Just like its up to the CO to decide if a find is legit or not and has the ability to delete the find online. In this case the first person claiming FTF didn't sign the log. So if the CO wanted to he could make the call that the first person didn't officially make the find since the log wasn't signed and delete the online log.

It is not in the cache owner's power to "assign" first to find, because there is no "assigning". Somebody found it first. Somebody else found it next. Period. I guess you must mean "attribute" or "acknowledge" or something like that. The cache owner can do that. But that doesn't mean that he is correct on who first found it.

2k · January 8, 2011

Oh yeah, I found that cache, too. Not really sure what cache you're talking about or even where in the world you are, but I found it. Before the other guy, even. I signed a tree near the cache because I couldn't get the cache open.

I was FTF at every cache ever published all over the world. I never signed anything though, but I was still FTF on all million plus caches.

1.4k · January 8, 2011

As you are so very fond of saying to others, "if you can't hack the competition then don't do it." You lost. Buck up and deal with it.

Just looking for opinions, Fuzzy don't get yourself all worked up

SS

January 8, 2011

I'd forget about it and move on. What's one lousy FTF in the grand scheme of things?

I'm not a huge FTF hound, but I've had a 2nd-to-find or two where the only way somebody could have beaten me to it was enter a property before it opened. I followed the rules and waited and got burned. But they got the FTF, as far as I'm concerned.

If the other guy found it first and made an honest effort to get to the log and just couldn't, I'd say you got beat fair and square. Sounds like he left "proof" that he found the cache that under most other circumstances people would be fine about. How many times have we seen, "Forgot pen, left muddy fingerprint on log" etc.

People like to assume the worst about other people's intentions.

10.2k · January 8, 2011

Wanted opinions of a FTF I recently found pulled up to ground zero quickly found the cache but the tricky part was figuring out how to get the log sheet out took me a little while but I was successful and found a blank log sheet signed it put it back and was on my way home to log online my FTF. When I arrived home another cacher had logged that he found the cache shortly after publication maybe before me but he could not figure out how to get the log sheet out so he wrote his initials on the outside of the container and was claiming the FTF. What is your opinion regarding this situation......just curious, I would think you would have to sign the physical log first to claim the FTF, but that's just my opinion.

And yes I do know that the whole FTF game is a side game and is not recognized by GS but just would like some opinions

Scubasonic

Answering as someone who couldn't give a rat's patooie about the FTF side game, I'll say "it depends". Why were you two having difficulty figuring out how to open this thing? Was it an intentionally "evil hide", such as the CO wanted people to have difficulty figuring out how to open it and sign the log, or did they use some wacky unorthodox container, with no intention of tricking people on how to open it?

Generally, you can put me down in the "first to sign the logsheet" camp.

January 8, 2011

I like to keep it simple.

Geocaches can be logged online as Found once the physical log has been signed.

Signing the container is lame and the log should be deleted.

7k · January 8, 2011

"Assign FTF"? Uh, no. I don't think so.

you never heard of people getting FTFs on event caches? they win them, at a trivia, or something like that.

18.9k · January 8, 2011

FTF and 2 quarters will buy you a can of pop from the local vending machine.

Come to think of it - just the 2 quarters will do fine.

Signing the contaier instead of the logbook is lame whether you are FTF or 737th to find.

January 8, 2011

1. Find the cache, sign the log, claim a smiley.

2. Find the cache, don't sign the log, then it's up to your own ethics. :unsure:

Here's a scenario.

You arrive at a locked Mystery cache that has a field puzzle. :blink:

You solve the puzzle, unlock the cache and are the first to sign the log.

You get home happy with your FTF only to see someone else claims an FTF.

They state they couldn't solve the puzzle, nor unlock the cache to sign the log but since they found the cache they signed their name on the outside of the container. :mad:

If it were my cache, the smiley goes bye-bye.

January 8, 2011

I think that you should flee GZ and nuke the sight from orbit.

Okay seriosly maybe the other person should of taken a picture of the cache and emailed it to the CO. just say that it was a joint ftf, or maybe no one gets the FTF

2.4k · January 8, 2011

On a magnetic strip cache, there was no logsheet...so we signed the cache itself. As the cache was 4 hours from home I didn't feel lame doing so. And it wasn't an FTF issue either. As far as the OP goes...what was signed first - the container or the log? I wouldn't want to be the CO on this one, and would probably "award" a joint FTF to try and keep the peace!

January 8, 2011

the CO could "award" two FTFs

1) FTF the container and signed it

2) FTF the logsheet and signed it

:anibad:

1.2k · January 8, 2011

You didn't say, and I'm surprised no one has asked...

Did you see the other cacher's initials on the container?

What was the difficulty?

If the container is supposed to add to the difficulty, then the other cacher didn't complete the find. But, if the lid was just stuck, or somehow not supposed to be difficult or challenging (a maintenance issue), then its a hard call, but if his initials weren't on the container when you found it, there's no question, you got it.

January 8, 2011

Slightly related - on New Years Eve, a new cache was published 1.5km from my house. As we had geocaching friends over for dinner, 2 people decided to quickly go and get the cache (hoping to be FTF).

The find was very simple, and upon removing the cache, someone else had signed the log 3 days before it was published. And when I looked up the cacher in GS, they were hosting a event 200+ kms away (and from what I can gather, good friends with the cache owner). They have not yet logged on the find on GS, but it was really odd.

Has anyone else come across this? I don't quite see the point unless they are a number chaser and will log it later. We have a photo of the log in someone's iPhone. Our friend claimed the FTF (as they are a FTF nut and personally I don't care).

6.7k · January 8, 2011

You can claim First To Sign, but you obviously weren't the First To Find.

January 8, 2011

Signing the outside of the container is only acceptable on Power Trials. :laughing:

19k · January 8, 2011

"Assign FTF"? Uh, no. I don't think so.

you never heard of people getting FTFs on event caches? they win them, at a trivia, or something like that.

No, I never have, and I find the concept laughable. Do they at least get a trophy to take home with them? Edited January 8, 2011 by knowschad

19k · January 8, 2011

1.8k · January 8, 2011

you never heard of people getting FTFs on event caches? they win them, at a trivia, or something like that.

I think events are special cases. I don't have a problem with the social convention that's popped up of people having raffles or goofy contests to declare who was the first person to "find" the event. It's fun. But I don't think it really changes things for caches that aren't parties.

You get home happy with your FTF only to see someone else claims an FTF.
They state they couldn't solve the puzzle, nor unlock the cache to sign the log but since they found the cache they signed their name on the outside of the container.

If I wouldn't consider it a find, I wouldn't consider it an FTF. In the case of not solving an on-site Monkey Puzzle, I'm pretty unlikely to consider it a find. Other situations it might be different.

That said, I don't really care what other people consider to be their own FTFs. I keep my own personal bookmark list, and don't really sweat what other people do with theirs.

6.7k · January 8, 2011

I was the first to find it. I found it. Opened the container. Saw the empty log so I know you weren't there yet. Put the log back and checked out the craftsmanship, or lack there of, so I know there weren't any initials or anything on it. So it is obvious to me that I was the first. Prove me wrong.

See how silly the whole thing is? Claim whatever you want and move on.

3.2k · January 8, 2011

Did you find the cache? Did you enjoy looking for it? If yes, mission accomplished.

Move on. There is no real significance to finding it first.

January 9, 2011

So you got it first. Claim FTF in your log. Put it in your stats. If the other guy does the same thing, don't worry about it. You might not get recognition on the cache page, but nobody's gonna come to your house and uncheck the "First to Find" attribute in GSAK...

Hey, it's the same way you'd handle a "co-FTF" and "Shared FTF" and all the other stuff people come up with. I guess.

2.2k · January 9, 2011

I'm with all those who feel that if you open it up and sign the log first, then you are the FTF. You were the first to complete the task at hand. If I were the other finder, I'd post a note describing my experience, and then email the Cache Owner, and figure it out from there...

In other FTF news, I got my first out of state FTF (a co-FTF with J the Goat, pretty cool!)

January 9, 2011

From the Cache Listing Requirements / Guidelines page:

Logging of All Physical Caches

Geocaches can be logged online as Found once the physical log has been signed.

So how can one claim a find if they didn't sign the physical log? The outside of the container is not the log unless the log is of course on the outside of the container.

4.2k · January 9, 2011

As a cache owner I never award the three initials and anybody can claim what they want. The OP can claim it. For that matter, somebody who was the 14th to find could claim it. It has equal effect. Which is one reason why I never use the initials when I sign a blank log at a new cache,

1.4k · January 9, 2011

You didn't say, and I'm surprised no one has asked...

Did you see the other cacher's initials on the container?

What was the difficulty?

If the container is supposed to add to the difficulty, then the other cacher didn't complete the find. But, if the lid was just stuck, or somehow not supposed to be difficult or challenging (a maintenance issue), then its a hard call, but if his initials weren't on the container when you found it, there's no question, you got it.

Didn't look that close to the container to see if there were initials on it or not.

Scubasonic

January 9, 2011

As a fellow FTF hound (not nearly as successful, but still a hound) I look at this and think this whole thread is dealing with the wrong question. A few people alluded to it, but I will say it outright.

If you get to a cleverly concealed cache that is easy to find but hard to open/get to/whatever and the logsheet is NOT signed, then the CO should delete their log altogether. If the container was tough to open due to ice or some other unplanned issue, then I believe the first person there keeps his log and gets the FTF.

It is based on your own ethics, as stated earlier. However, I would expect a found it log to be deleted if the person did not COMPLETE the task to sign the log. I recently found a cool cache that was easy to find, but the log sheet was within a puzzle which was inside the container. Signing the logsheet was NECESSARY to claim the smiley, and defeating the puzzle was necessary to sign the logsheet. I think it's poor sportsmanship in the FTF side-game to claim an FTF or even a smiley when you did not sign the logsheet.

One more thing: Who's to say YOU weren't there first?!!! Maybe you got there, opened the container, signed your name, put it back, and in the process of driving home, the other cacher found it, signed the outside of the container, logged from their phone on the spot, and claimed the FTF (they never saw your name, they never got at the logbook!) just before you got home to see the log?

My $.02.

1.4k · January 9, 2011

So several had asked about the container it was a 1.5 Diff and 1.5 Terr a large lip lock bag that had duct tape all over it to the point that u could not tell which end opened because the duct tape was stuck together on all corners but I could feel the rim of the zip lock bag where you squeeze it together to seal the bag under the tape so I was able to determine which end opened that's it.

Scubasonic

10.2k · January 9, 2011

So several had asked about the container it was a 1.5 Diff and 1.5 Terr a large lip lock bag that had duct tape all over it to the point that u could not tell which end opened because the duct tape was stuck together on all corners but I could feel the rim of the zip lock bag where you squeeze it together to seal the bag under the tape so I was able to determine which end opened that's it.

Scubasonic

Well then, I'll decline commenting on a zip lock bag with duct tape as a cache container, or the FTF side game. Although by saying that, I guess I already did. :unsure:

So with no apparent intent on making the container difficult to figure out how to open, you Sir, are FTF. This is just my opinion, and means absolutely nothing.

What's up with the avatars in this thread that are just a colored square? I must have missed something. I should probably roll with that, seeing as Groundspeak has received a complaint about my OJ Simpson mug shot avatar.

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