Real 100% waterproof cache

[+911vans]

I need a 100% waterproof cache, that will suspended just over water. It will be a medium size cache.

What do you guy's suggest?

[+fegan]

I need a 100% waterproof cache, that will suspended just over water. It will be a medium size cache.

What do you guy's suggest?

 

Over water, or Under water? Makes a BIG difference in cost.

[+Unkle Fester]

You could buy a surplus Soviet era submarine...

 

Smaller? anything with gaskets or o-rings will work best, but nothing is 100% when it comes to water, other than 100% it will get wet.

[+Renegade Knight]

We don't consider that all caches are 'air proof' in that they are immersed in it all the time without being air tight at all. Air merely causes no harm.

 

If you think of waterproof in the same vein it opens up some possibilities.

[+911vans]

I need a 100% waterproof cache, that will suspended just over water. It will be a medium size cache.

What do you guy's suggest?

 

Over water, or Under water? Makes a BIG difference in cost.

 

Supose to be over water, but not sure in the spring...

Is a Nalgene bottle could do the job if immerse ?

Edited September 8, 2009 by 911vans

[+bittsen]

A wide mouth soda bottle will work pretty good for a long while. If you want to make it work longer, you can heat it up to shrink (and make thicker) the plastic. It won't be pretty but it will hold out water.

Or, just get a wide mouth preform....

[+Wogus!]

Maaaaaaybe a Pelican case or an Otterbox container. Maybe. And neither is going to be what I would call a cheap solution.

 

When you say 100% waterproof I hear "watertight"; and I don't know that either Pelicans or Otter boxes will remain 100% watertight over time. I'd say they're your best bet, though.

 

Another problem, at least potentially as I see it, is that they're so nice (Pelican cases in particular) that, personally, I'd be afraid someone would take off with the cache just for the container.

[+Renegade Knight]

...Is a Nalgene bottle could do the job if immerse ?

 

I've seen this used as a temp cache for an event. It worked well and was a nice change of pace for a find. The main problem isn't the waterpoof here. It is. It's that it can float away. It's also that when you open it you can let water inside.

[+dakin55]

starting out waterproof is easy, opening and closing and then wanting waterproof is hard!

Edited September 8, 2009 by dakin55

[+911vans]

starting out waterproof is easy, opening and closing and then wanting waterproof is hard!

 

So you think a flaothing Nalgene can cross the ocean?

[+MountainRacer]

You mentioned a Nalgene bottle. Yes, I've seen these as submerged caches. They don't leak, but they still get wet inside. How, you may ask? The cooling effect of the water causes ambient humidity inside the container to condense and form liquid droplets or a puddle. (It's the same principle by which a cold glass or soda can "sweats" on a warm day; the "sweat" is water vapor in the air, not your drink.)

 

The upshot: you can't put things that would be damaged by water inside a cache hidden in water, no matter how tightly sealable the container is. Spring for a Rite-in-the-Rain log if you don't want the log to be a mushy mess after a week.

[+niraD]

Wide-mouth water bottles work well. So do containers with gaskets like ammo cans, Lock & Locks, beach safes, match holders, and bison tubes. But in practice, they are all vulnerable to being closed improperly. If something like a plastic bag gets caught in the seal, then it will wick moisture into the container no matter how waterproof the container might be in theory. For a cache suspended above water, any of these should be fine.

 

I've found an ammo can hidden under water. It was dry inside, but the cache page included a warning to close it carefully. I've also heard of caches that used two containers (e.g., a Lock & Lock inside an ammo can). And I've heard of custom PVC containers that used a large ball valve, and weights to keep the ball valve pointing down. The air pressure kept water out if the ball valve leaked for any reason.

[+Knight2000]

I have an ammo can that has been underwater since last October. It has only been pulled out about 10 times since then. It was found last week and I was told it was bone dry. (It has been all of the other times too.) It is in a pond that also freezes over in the winter.

 

+1 for ammo cans

 

*edit- I do have a pelican box inside the ammo can just in case. Overkill for sure.

Edited September 9, 2009 by Knight2000

[+briansnat]

I have an ammo can that has been underwater since last October. It has only been pulled out about 10 times since then. It was found last week and I was told it was bone dry. (It has been all of the other times too.) It is in a pond that also freezes over in the winter.

 

+1 for ammo cans

 

*edit- I do have a pelican box inside the ammo can just in case. Overkill for sure.

 

Ammo cans are great but I have encountered ones that were soaked inside. No container is 100% waterpoof, though ammo cans are the nearest thing.

[Clan Riffster]

edit- I do have a pelican box inside the ammo can just in case. Overkill for sure.

When I was hunting containers for a submerged cache, I found a size Lock & Lock that fits nicely into a 30 calibre ammo can. With one inside the other, you've got two levels of protection, both of which are worthy containers.

[Mr.Yuck]

edit- I do have a pelican box inside the ammo can just in case. Overkill for sure.

When I was hunting containers for a submerged cache, I found a size Lock & Lock that fits nicely into a 30 calibre ammo can. With one inside the other, you've got two levels of protection, both of which are worthy containers.

 

I have found a submerged .50 cal. It wasn't exactly a "new" one either, and had no internal container. It's all about the gasket, I suppose.

[+sbell111]

You mentioned a Nalgene bottle. Yes, I've seen these as submerged caches. They don't leak, but they still get wet inside. How, you may ask? The cooling effect of the water causes ambient humidity inside the container to condense and form liquid droplets or a puddle. (It's the same principle by which a cold glass or soda can "sweats" on a warm day; the "sweat" is water vapor in the air, not your drink.)

 

The upshot: you can't put things that would be damaged by water inside a cache hidden in water, no matter how tightly sealable the container is. Spring for a Rite-in-the-Rain log if you don't want the log to be a mushy mess after a week.

The inside of the hypothetical waterproof container would not be as wet as the outside of your cold soda because the only water that could condense is the water in the humid air that is trapped inside the container. Since there is far more humid air outside of the container, the outside of your soda will be far wetter. Also, this is really no different from any cache anywhere. The hypothetical perfectly waterproof cache will have the same amount of condensation inside whether it is hidden underwater or inside a cool log.

[+Renegade Knight]

...Rite-in-the-Rain log...

 

This is coated paper. The paper will still get wet and turn to mush over time.

Adventure paper or another more durable option, is the better choice here.

[+bflentje]

This cache container truly IS waterproof. The only problem are the geocachers that splash water to the inside.

 

Shrinky Dinks

[+Castle Mischief]

This cache container truly IS waterproof. The only problem are the geocachers that splash water to the inside.

 

Shrinky Dinks

 

That's where I saw the ball valve used as a PVC cache lid!

 

I guess that's working out just fine other than the cachers that drip water into the open container?

[+Morning Dew]

In the terms most of you are talking, there are really an infinite amount of containers that are 100% waterproof (in the context that is being discussed).

 

Of course a nalgene bottle is 100% waterproof. Fill it with water close it, place it on your counter in a bowl and check it in a year. Do you really expect to find water that has leaked to the outside? Again, in the context that is being discussed. This is not taking in to account that plastic will breathe and that a tiny amount of water over time will evaporate out.

 

What confuses so many cachers about what keeps out water and what doesn't (and the main reason there are so many threads over the years about this) is they forget the "closing" part.

 

The reason ammo boxes have such a good reputation is two fold.

1) They are easy to close.

2) They are large enought that the chance of catching something in the seal is greatly minimized.

 

Of couse, someone will now post a reply about the time they found an ammo can with water in it. Again, this is usually because it wasn't closed properly, a bad gasket to begin with or something was trapped between the gasket and the lid. However, they will come to the conclusion that ALL ammo cans are not waterproof (again in the context we are talking here; i.e. not submerged, under no pressure and only experiencing rain and condensation).

 

The biggest problem with a nalgene bottle is not everyone closes it the same way. I might crank it down, you just might give it a few twists.

 

I've been running the following experiment on match stick containers for a couple years (famous for not being water tight but yet they have a gasket and are advertised as water tight).

 

As soon as I find one, I see if I can screw it tighter before I try to open it. Usually I'm able to turn it at least one full turn before it will "grab" closed. Then I'll open it and wala the rolled up paper log is soaked. Other times I will find a bit of plastic bag trapped between the seal and the cap.

 

If you don't believe me, run your own experiments. Buy a lock n lock, matchstick container (must have a gasket), ammo can, nalgene bottle, etc. Put a paper log in each, close them up good and tight with nothing trapped in the gasket. Toss them on the grass in your backyard. Mark your calender and one year later open them up. NEVER open before that. Let us know what you find.

 

And oh yeah, if you find any of the log books signed, you have some good cachers in your area .

[+bflentje]

This cache container truly IS waterproof. The only problem are the geocachers that splash water to the inside.

 

Shrinky Dinks

 

That's where I saw the ball valve used as a PVC cache lid!

 

I guess that's working out just fine other than the cachers that drip water into the open container?

 

Works out great. Just for added protection, inside the 2" PVC capsule is a tightly closed match container which contains the log. So even with careless cachers, the double protection system has kept the log perfectly dry over two entire seasons.

[+The Cheeseheads]

This cache container truly IS waterproof. The only problem are the geocachers that splash water to the inside.

 

Shrinky Dinks

 

That's where I saw the ball valve used as a PVC cache lid!

 

I guess that's working out just fine other than the cachers that drip water into the open container?

 

Works out great. Just for added protection, inside the 2" PVC capsule is a tightly closed match container which contains the log. So even with careless cachers, the double protection system has kept the log perfectly dry over two entire seasons.

Do you disable the cache during the winter, or let it be and see if people can find it through the ice?

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

You could buy a surplus Soviet era submarine...

 

Even that isn't a guarantee: Juliet 484.

[+traildad]

A big part of the question is will it still be water proof after each cache finder closes it.

[John E Cache]

The problem is that if water gets into a waterproof container the inside will never dry out. All it takes is one person with wet hands to contaminate the cache forever, in my opinion.

[+Arrow42]

The problem is that if water gets into a waterproof container the inside will never dry out. All it takes is one person with wet hands to contaminate the cache forever, in my opinion.

 

That's an asinine argument to not make something waterproof.

[John E Cache]

The problem is that if water gets into a waterproof container the inside will never dry out. All it takes is one person with wet hands to contaminate the cache forever, in my opinion.

 

That's an asinine argument to not make something waterproof.

I agree and I didn't say not to make one. Are you a troll?

[+Arrow42]

I agree and I didn't say not to make one.

 

You phrased your sentence as an objection to waterproofing a cache.

 

Are you a troll?

 

Are you?

 

[John E Cache]

I agree and I didn't say not to make one.

You phrased your sentence as an objection to waterproofing a cache.

Is English your first language? I pointed out a "con" that needed to be considered along with the "pros". My response was triggered by the time I camped two weeks in the Alaskan rain forest. where you never brought wet clothes into the tent. Waterproof containers hold water just as well as repelling it. If you have personal comment, send e-mail.

[Clan Riffster]

The problem is that if water gets into a waterproof container the inside will never dry out. All it takes is one person with wet hands to contaminate the cache forever, in my opinion.

One of the log types I dread seeing on my caches are words to the effect of, "Found this one while caching in the rain..."

Your comment about waterproof containers was dead on, and these types of logs tell me I can either:

1 ) Suffer the indignity of numerous "soggy contents" logs.

or

2 ) Rush out with a replacement ammo can, so I can dry out the original.

 

I keep several fully stocked & camo'ed ammo cans on hand for just such a purpose.

[+texasgrillchef]

I need a 100% waterproof cache, that will suspended just over water. It will be a medium size cache.

What do you guy's suggest?

 

Nothing and I mean NOTHING is 100% waterproof.

 

I say this because you take anything DEEP enough underwater and it will eventually leak.

 

In the real world though waterproofing is rated on what is known as an IP scale. For instance my Garmin GPS is rated as an IPX7. The X stands for its rating against drops etc... the 7 represents it's rating for waterproofing.

 

The IPX7 rating means it can handle 3 feet of water for 30 min before leaking. Or Hard rainfall indeffinately.

 

What you have to determine FIRST is what kind of "Water Proofing" do you need?

 

Do you want to put the cache underwater? Or do you just want it to handle hard rains and temporary flooding?

 

You can get pelican & otter boxes that can handle being underwater up to 60' for over 24 hours. And anything less as well.

 

If you want the BEST.... get a Pelican or Otter box. They aren't cheap. But they are among the best. I worked Search & Rescue for many years. A Pelican or Otter box is the ONLY thing that we would buy because it's the ONLY thing that could handle EMS/Fire/S&R without failing on us in times of need.

 

TGC

[+bflentje]

I need a 100% waterproof cache, that will suspended just over water. It will be a medium size cache.

What do you guy's suggest?

 

Nothing and I mean NOTHING is 100% waterproof.

 

I say this because you take anything DEEP enough underwater and it will eventually leak.

 

In the real world though waterproofing is rated on what is known as an IP scale. For instance my Garmin GPS is rated as an IPX7. The X stands for its rating against drops etc... the 7 represents it's rating for waterproofing.

 

The IPX7 rating means it can handle 3 feet of water for 30 min before leaking. Or Hard rainfall indeffinately.

 

What you have to determine FIRST is what kind of "Water Proofing" do you need?

 

Do you want to put the cache underwater? Or do you just want it to handle hard rains and temporary flooding?

 

You can get pelican & otter boxes that can handle being underwater up to 60' for over 24 hours. And anything less as well.

 

If you want the BEST.... get a Pelican or Otter box. They aren't cheap. But they are among the best. I worked Search & Rescue for many years. A Pelican or Otter box is the ONLY thing that we would buy because it's the ONLY thing that could handle EMS/Fire/S&R without failing on us in times of need.

 

TGC

 

I know for a fact that my PVC container is good for in excess of 40' of water. Though it's only hidden in a few feet of water.

[+Castle Mischief]

If you want the BEST.... get a Pelican or Otter box. They aren't cheap. But they are among the best. I worked Search & Rescue for many years. A Pelican or Otter box is the ONLY thing that we would buy because it's the ONLY thing that could handle EMS/Fire/S&R without failing on us in times of need.

 

I'd put a $5 ammo can (with some TLC) up against a $30 Pelican or Otter Box any day of the week.

[+Castle Mischief]

 

I know for a fact that my PVC container is good for in excess of 40' of water. Though it's only hidden in a few feet of water.

 

Okay, you've piqued my curiosity. Did you submerge it a swimming pool or is there a more interesting story?

 

I'm researching a spot for a submerged cache myself, how hard is it to find a ball valve the size of the one on your cache?

[+Wild Thing 73]

My pill bottles are water tight, but I don't think any caching container can keep moisture out....Stay safe

[+Castle Mischief]

My pill bottles are water tight, but I don't think any caching container can keep moisture out....Stay safe

 

A pill bottle that keeps water out while submerged for long periods? Really?

[+GeoLobo]

I have created a number of Hydro-caches and I have found just as many. Most are created using a nalgene bottle (but ive seen other containers). They are usually clipped using a Carbiner to a ring attached to a rope tied to an anchor. It is probably best to make sure that it suspends below the approximate ice thickness for that particular body of water. Also, if motor boats frequent the water, you need to be sure you take that into consideration on how far you suspend the cache under water. Hydro-caches are fun to find and hide!

 

The idea is to have the finder remove the nalgene bottle from the water (unclipping and marking the spot with some type of flag (I use a scuba flag)). The finder then takes it to shore to sign the log or have a second person waiting to sign the log. This helps to keep the contents dry. Its usually best to require in your cache description to make sure there is a second person along for emergency purposes.

 

Examples:

 

Abanakee Hydrocache

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...40-48753733c34d

 

Rock Island Bay Hydro-cache

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...63-0b3048142495

 

Pack Forest Lake Multi-Hydro-Cache

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...12-dbb09b233a3f

 

Moose Pond Hydrocache

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...f2-2621a9921252

[+sbell111]

My pill bottles are water tight, but I don't think any caching container can keep moisture out....Stay safe

 

A pill bottle that keeps water out while submerged for long periods? Really?

Did I miss where Wild Thing stated that he owns submerged caches that utilize pill bottles?

[+DavidMac]

The biggest problem with a nalgene bottle is not everyone closes it the same way. I might crank it down, you just might give it a few twists.

 

This is exactly the problem I've had with several caches in the past. For a while I was using large centrifuge tubes (about the size of a soda bottle preform) with screw-on caps. In the lab, they're completely leakproof and air/water tight. After several months in the field, I started getting complaints of soggy logs. I replaced the containers several times but it kept happening. Finally I figured out what was up. Finders were assuming that the cap worked like that on a soda bottle, where you stop turning as soon as you meet resistance. You actually have to turn them an extra quarter turn, which we were used to doing in the lab. If the cap isn't twisted down extra tight, the tubes leak.

 

Decon containers face the same problem. If properly closed, they're normally leakproof. But properly closing them involves snapping the lid down tightly on all sides. Some people don't know to do this, so the contents get wet and the containers get a bad reputation.

Edited September 16, 2009 by DavidMac

[+bflentje]

 

I know for a fact that my PVC container is good for in excess of 40' of water. Though it's only hidden in a few feet of water.

 

Okay, you've piqued my curiosity. Did you submerge it a swimming pool or is there a more interesting story?

 

I'm researching a spot for a submerged cache myself, how hard is it to find a ball valve the size of the one on your cache?

 

I bought the ball valve at our local Menards store. I think Menards is regional to Minnesota and surrounding states but Home Depot also sells them.

[+Castle Mischief]

My pill bottles are water tight, but I don't think any caching container can keep moisture out....Stay safe

 

A pill bottle that keeps water out while submerged for long periods? Really?

Did I miss where Wild Thing stated that he owns submerged caches that utilize pill bottles?

 

Did I miss the vote for forum post police? Fair enough. Here's my corrected version:

 

A water-tight (often meaning that it will keep water out while staying submerged for long periods, sometimes called water-proof depending on what side of pedantic you woke up on this morning) pill bottle? Really?

[+sbell111]

My pill bottles are water tight, but I don't think any caching container can keep moisture out....Stay safe

 

A pill bottle that keeps water out while submerged for long periods? Really?

Did I miss where Wild Thing stated that he owns submerged caches that utilize pill bottles?

 

Did I miss the vote for forum post police? Fair enough. Here's my corrected version:

 

A water-tight (often meaning that it will keep water out while staying submerged for long periods, sometimes called water-proof depending on what side of pedantic you woke up on this morning) pill bottle? Really?

For most caches, 'water resistant' is perfectly fine. You see, most caches will never become submerged, at all.

[+Castle Mischief]

My pill bottles are water tight, but I don't think any caching container can keep moisture out....Stay safe

 

A pill bottle that keeps water out while submerged for long periods? Really?

Did I miss where Wild Thing stated that he owns submerged caches that utilize pill bottles?

 

Did I miss the vote for forum post police? Fair enough. Here's my corrected version:

 

A water-tight (often meaning that it will keep water out while staying submerged for long periods, sometimes called water-proof depending on what side of pedantic you woke up on this morning) pill bottle? Really?

For most caches, 'water resistant' is perfectly fine. You see, most caches will never become submerged, at all.

 

I assumed that in a thread titled "Real 100% waterproof cache" that the OP was looking for something that falls outside the boundaries of "most caches".

[+sbell111]

My pill bottles are water tight, but I don't think any caching container can keep moisture out....Stay safe

A pill bottle that keeps water out while submerged for long periods? Really?

Did I miss where Wild Thing stated that he owns submerged caches that utilize pill bottles?

Did I miss the vote for forum post police? Fair enough. Here's my corrected version:

 

A water-tight (often meaning that it will keep water out while staying submerged for long periods, sometimes called water-proof depending on what side of pedantic you woke up on this morning) pill bottle? Really?

For most caches, 'water resistant' is perfectly fine. You see, most caches will never become submerged, at all.

I assumed that in a thread titled "Real 100% waterproof cache" that the OP was looking for something that falls outside the boundaries of "most caches".

You will note from the OP that the cache in question would be suspended above water, not submerged under it.

 

Either way, it doesn't change the fact that Wild Thing's experience with the bottles that he uses is that they do not leak when placed in teh locations of his choosing.

[+Castle Mischief]

My pill bottles are water tight, but I don't think any caching container can keep moisture out....Stay safe

A pill bottle that keeps water out while submerged for long periods? Really?

Did I miss where Wild Thing stated that he owns submerged caches that utilize pill bottles?

Did I miss the vote for forum post police? Fair enough. Here's my corrected version:

 

A water-tight (often meaning that it will keep water out while staying submerged for long periods, sometimes called water-proof depending on what side of pedantic you woke up on this morning) pill bottle? Really?

For most caches, 'water resistant' is perfectly fine. You see, most caches will never become submerged, at all.

I assumed that in a thread titled "Real 100% waterproof cache" that the OP was looking for something that falls outside the boundaries of "most caches".

You will note from the OP that the cache in question would be suspended above water, not submerged under it.

 

Either way, it doesn't change the fact that Wild Thing's experience with the bottles that he uses is that they do not leak when placed in teh locations of his choosing.

 

We can go on like this all day. I think anybody can read what the OP was looking for, what I've said and draw their own conclusions. Thanks for your helpful analysis of the situation.

[+sbell111]

My pill bottles are water tight, but I don't think any caching container can keep moisture out....Stay safe

A pill bottle that keeps water out while submerged for long periods? Really?

Did I miss where Wild Thing stated that he owns submerged caches that utilize pill bottles?

Did I miss the vote for forum post police? Fair enough. Here's my corrected version:

 

A water-tight (often meaning that it will keep water out while staying submerged for long periods, sometimes called water-proof depending on what side of pedantic you woke up on this morning) pill bottle? Really?

For most caches, 'water resistant' is perfectly fine. You see, most caches will never become submerged, at all.

I assumed that in a thread titled "Real 100% waterproof cache" that the OP was looking for something that falls outside the boundaries of "most caches".

You will note from the OP that the cache in question would be suspended above water, not submerged under it.

 

Either way, it doesn't change the fact that Wild Thing's experience with the bottles that he uses is that they do not leak when placed in teh locations of his choosing.

 

We can go on like this all day. I think anybody can read what the OP was looking for, what I've said and draw their own conclusions. Thanks for your helpful analysis of the situation.

Honestly, I don't know why you are getting wadded up over the fact that other people use pill bottles to good effect.

[Clan Riffster]

Nothing and I mean NOTHING is 100% waterproof.

I say this because you take anything DEEP enough underwater and it will eventually leak.

I reckon THAT depends ON your DEFINITION of DEEP enough. WOULD being AS deep AS physically POSSIBLE count? I seem TO recall A certain VESSEL travelling TO the DEEPEST spot ON the PLANET, and IT didn't LEAK.

 

Maybe IF they HAD brought A shovel THEY could've ESCAVATED down A bit FARTHER till THEY reached YOUR magical LEAK point?

[+bittsen]

Nothing and I mean NOTHING is 100% waterproof.

I say this because you take anything DEEP enough underwater and it will eventually leak.

I reckon THAT depends ON your DEFINITION of DEEP enough. WOULD being AS deep AS physically POSSIBLE count? I seem TO recall A certain VESSEL travelling TO the DEEPEST spot ON the PLANET, and IT didn't LEAK.

 

Maybe IF they HAD brought A shovel THEY could've EXCAVATED down A bit FARTHER till THEY reached YOUR magical LEAK point?

 

Fixed it for you.

[Clan Riffster]

Fixed it for you.

Thanx! My speeling sux.