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Manville Possum

Cemetery caches.

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Its not disrespectful...if he has permission from the groundskeeper then it is totally fine to put it there.

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there is a geocache in a cemetary in my town. I was just thinking how bad it woudl be if some idiots ran through there and if someone saw it and yelled to his or her friends and there was a funeral going on. that woudl be bad... so I'm kinda agains it cuz that woudl be really dissrespectiful.

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So let me get this straight: you'll place a cache on what could possibly be private property, knowing that you may or may not have permission to do so, and state those intentions on the forums? In such a manner that if a landowner, who had been properly contacted about placing a cache and was looking into our community could see, and decide we're just a bunch of thoughtless punks? Yet you, good sir, complain that the rest of the geocaching world is nothing but knuckleheads in other posts? Like I said earlier in this (or maybe a different) post: pot, meet kettle. Also, meet my ignore list.

 

 

(psssttt... I think he was kidding !!)

 

What's that smell? SP?

 

Mr. Klinger is a newer member who has only been part of the game for a very short while. Coming in with the attitude he has is forgivable for ignorance is bliss, and Klinger appears a very happy person.

 

:):D<_<:( Sorry... what are you talking about? I simply pointed out to 'Cpl. Klinger' that your post was in jest. I hardly think that deserved a response from you or anyone else except possibly from Cpl Clinger. By the way, what does, "What's that smell? SP?" mean? Whatever it means, was lost on me.

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there is a geocache in a cemetary in my town. I was just thinking how bad it woudl be if some idiots ran through there and if someone saw it and yelled to his or her friends and there was a funeral going on. that woudl be bad... so I'm kinda agains it cuz that woudl be really dissrespectiful.

I'd like to think cachers would know better than to do that with a funeral going on.

 

But who knows... some cachers will trample all over flower beds, do anything for the golden FTF, run out into intersections, cache after posted hours, lift lamp skirts, etc... the list goes on. :D

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So let me get this straight: you'll place a cache on what could possibly be private property, knowing that you may or may not have permission to do so, and state those intentions on the forums? In such a manner that if a landowner, who had been properly contacted about placing a cache and was looking into our community could see, and decide we're just a bunch of thoughtless punks? Yet you, good sir, complain that the rest of the geocaching world is nothing but knuckleheads in other posts? Like I said earlier in this (or maybe a different) post: pot, meet kettle. Also, meet my ignore list.

 

 

(psssttt... I think he was kidding !!)

 

What's that smell? SP?

 

Mr. Klinger is a newer member who has only been part of the game for a very short while. Coming in with the attitude he has is forgivable for ignorance is bliss, and Klinger appears a very happy person.

 

:):D<_<:( Sorry... what are you talking about? I simply pointed out to 'Cpl. Klinger' that your post was in jest. I hardly think that deserved a response from you or anyone else except possibly from Cpl Clinger. By the way, what does, "What's that smell? SP?" mean? Whatever it means, was lost on me.

 

I'll give you a hint... the smell was like foot odor. ~LOL~ Like Gepetto's foot odor.

My comment was not negative towards you at all. Trust me.

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I enjoy the Cemetery hides as there are many old Cemeteries in this area.

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Cemetery caches go on my ignore list. They are disrespectful, and should be banned.

 

Thank you for trying to force your opinion on everyone. I'm glad you're not running the site.

 

I agree with that statement. Most every cemetary around here has a cache. ALL of them that I have found have been well away from headstones, located with alot of thought & respect for the dead, & with the permission of the caretakers. Almost all of them state these facts also.

 

I'm a "history cacher", you'll see that if you ever visit one of my caches. There are few places with as much history in one place as a cemetary. Besides that, I'm betting the people inside might like to see visitors occasionally...their neighbours aren't much for conversation. :P

 

Just my way of doing it, per my beliefs, but everytime I enter a cemetary for any purpose, I always silently apologize to the inhabitants for anything I might accidently do which might be disrespectful to them. Maybe it doesn't matter. But it's just my way of doing things & I always leave knowing that my visit was a good one.

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Respect for the dead is nice and all, but they're dead. Unless you think that they're still hanging around :blink: (I don't), then respect for the dead is really respect for the living who remember the dead. Anybody, cacher or not, knows to be respectful when there might be mourners in a cemetery.

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I will hunt cemetery caches, I would even place one, granting I got permission from the folks in charge. As long as it's done in a respectful manner, i.e. not near headstones, not in a manner to disrespect anyone or anything, go ahead. The only hard and fast rule I follow is never hunt one after dark. I have no desire to have run ins with local authorities, and in some areas local to us, being in a cemetery after dark is a sure way to do it.

 

I would ask all the residents if they cared. If I heard no complaints, I would place a cache. If one of the residents did speak up, I would simply wet my pants.

 

It is against the law to be in a cemetery after dark in Oregon.

 

The coffin in the back of the SUV probably didn't help matters. (don't ask)

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As long as permission has been given and the cache isn't anywhere near a gravestone I don't see a problem.

Edited by TheMadScotsman
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I will hunt cemetery caches, I would even place one, granting I got permission from the folks in charge. As long as it's done in a respectful manner, i.e. not near headstones, not in a manner to disrespect anyone or anything, go ahead. The only hard and fast rule I follow is never hunt one after dark. I have no desire to have run ins with local authorities, and in some areas local to us, being in a cemetery after dark is a sure way to do it.

 

I would ask all the residents if they cared. If I heard no complaints, I would place a cache. If one of the residents did speak up, I would simply wet my pants.

 

It is against the law to be in a cemetery after dark in Oregon.

 

The coffin in the back of the SUV probably didn't help matters. (don't ask)

 

Says who?

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A new cache just went active in our area (S.W. Virginia) and the driving dirictions showed it to be on the roadside near a public cemetary but when I got to the cache site it was inside the cemetary. (Placed with permission of the grounds keeper) I knew that the cache was hard to find according to other logs and the bush that it is in looked like it had been muggled. I thought it was inconsiderate and disrespectful to place a cache inside a cemetary so I did not attempt to find it but I did post a note stateing that I thought it was a poor place for a geocache. I have found/logged geocaches near cemetarys, along the fences & ect. but I don't know of any that are inside of a cemetary. Then I got some emails (not from the cache owner) suggesting that I delete my note, which I did. I would like to hear input from fellow geocachers on this matter, thanks. :D

 

I have placed caches just outside of cementarys "because" I love the calm and serenity and the sheer beauty of the places I have picked.

 

Tomato..tomatto....to each their own..

 

We're not talking about hiding caches in places where cement is made. I don't know how calm and serene a place like that would be anyway.

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A new cache just went active in our area (S.W. Virginia) and the driving dirictions showed it to be on the roadside near a public cemetary but when I got to the cache site it was inside the cemetary. (Placed with permission of the grounds keeper) I knew that the cache was hard to find according to other logs and the bush that it is in looked like it had been muggled. I thought it was inconsiderate and disrespectful to place a cache inside a cemetary so I did not attempt to find it but I did post a note stateing that I thought it was a poor place for a geocache. I have found/logged geocaches near cemetarys, along the fences & ect. but I don't know of any that are inside of a cemetary. Then I got some emails (not from the cache owner) suggesting that I delete my note, which I did. I would like to hear input from fellow geocachers on this matter, thanks. :rolleyes:

 

I have placed caches just outside of cementarys "because" I love the calm and serenity and the sheer beauty of the places I have picked.

 

Tomato..tomatto....to each their own..

 

We're not talking about hiding caches in places where cement is made. I don't know how calm and serene a place like that would be anyway.

When I was very small, I called them "cementeteries" because they had those big cement blocks all over the place.

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When I was very small, I called them "cementeteries" because they had those big cement blocks all over the place.

Aww... that's cute! :rolleyes:

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I will hunt cemetery caches, I would even place one, granting I got permission from the folks in charge. As long as it's done in a respectful manner, i.e. not near headstones, not in a manner to disrespect anyone or anything, go ahead. The only hard and fast rule I follow is never hunt one after dark. I have no desire to have run ins with local authorities, and in some areas local to us, being in a cemetery after dark is a sure way to do it.

 

I would ask all the residents if they cared. If I heard no complaints, I would place a cache. If one of the residents did speak up, I would simply wet my pants.

 

It is against the law to be in a cemetery after dark in Oregon.

 

The coffin in the back of the SUV probably didn't help matters. (don't ask)

 

Says who?

 

I actually scoured Indiana Code (I know it's different than Oregon, but I happen to have the link bookmarked) and found no such mention of it being a state offense. However, a quick Google search did bring up some mentions about it being against municipal laws. I know that a lot of cemeteries in Indiana happen to be city or county land, due to their age. Thus, they can be considered like some parks that, while public land, have limitations on their use. One of those being they are closed after dusk.

 

More to the point though, I don't hunt cemeteries after dark simply because it's the area most likely to attract attention from LEO's. I know that I won't look terribly out of place in the local Wal-Mart parking lot at 1 am, but I know in a lot of rural cemeteries, I'm banking on anything from a visit with a local cop to rock salt in shotgun shells.

Edited by Col. Flagg
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it would depend on the reason for placing the cache in the cemetary. If its a historical monument by all means please do. If its just a random cache where you need to collect data from unimportant grave stones then no, that just seems disrespectful.

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it would depend on the reason for placing the cache in the cemetary. If its a historical monument by all means please do. If its just a random cache where you need to collect data from unimportant grave stones then no, that just seems disrespectful.

'unimportant grave stones'? :laughing:

IMO - all grave stones are important regardless if the person was 'famous' or not.

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I always feel a little weird caching in cemeteries, and I try not to cache anywhere nearby if there is a funeral going on or if people are there grieving.

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it would depend on the reason for placing the cache in the cemetary. If its a historical monument by all means please do. If its just a random cache where you need to collect data from unimportant grave stones then no, that just seems disrespectful.

'unimportant grave stones'? :laughing:

IMO - all grave stones are important regardless if the person was 'famous' or not.

Agreed.

 

Try this. When looking at the dates on a headstone try to think of all the changes in the world between when the person was born and when they died. It puts history into perspective.

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I have found that geocaching in cemeteries, done with respect, has brought me an inner peace with my mortality. After having become involved with geocaching I often find myself in a cemetery, often alone, and finding myself more fully appreciating the life I have at this time. I know I and the rest of us will pass away some day. Geocaching cemeteries have brought me a closer peace with both life and death. There is a time and place for everything. Appreciate life. Think of the life those before us lived many years ago. Our struggles and hardships for the most part do not compare to those who lived ahead of us. There is a place for cemeteries and geocaching and both can be shared.

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I know this is late, but better late than never, right? I would like to apologize for acting like a complete jerk in this thread just because I disagreed with someone. I have a very bad habit of not thinking before posting. If I offended anyone, I am very sorry. Like I said, I tend to post before thinking, which can, and often does, get me into trouble. Hopefully this post is more well thought-out than most of my other posts.

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I realize there are 5 pages of replies, and I've not had the opportunity to read them all; but wanted to add my "two cents" because this is a particular topic of interest.

 

I find cemeteries in general to be fascinating, peaceful, often beautiful locations; filled with history, encounters with nature, and opportunities for remembrance. For that reason, they are often ideal places for cache visitors as geocachers in general appreciate all these qualities that drew them to the hobby initially.

I have several cache hides in cemeteries...I find older cemeteries highlight local history and allow us to reflect (sometimes rather profoundly) on all those that have passed this way before. I place my hides with my notes highlighting the history of the area, and reminders to cache only during daylight hours, and respect for the surroundings (which is probably unneccessary as our local cachers--and cachers in general--are among the most respectful stewards of the outdoors).

 

Practically speaking...I avoid all headstones and have placed hides in tree nooks and holes (not shrubs which are prone to geofatigue from repeated seeking). Obviously, I would not seek one, and have left many unfound, if there are services or nearby grieving visitors.

 

*To a more specific example...recently I submitted a new hide for approval...It was directly alongside the cemetery drive, 5 feet up the side of a very large and old deciduous tree in a hollow burl. The nearest stone was small ankle high ancient/unreadable and not proximal to the tree, probably 4 or 5 feet away.

The cache was disapproved/archived by our Ohio reviewer secondary to concerns about gravesite proximity. OK.

 

*Now, yesterday, I travel to another location in Ohio, and find a cache, approved by the same reviewer, surprisingly tucked in the flower vase attached to the gravemarker. That makes me very uncomfortable. The reviewer/cache owner will say that it is allowable because the gravemarker was the family member of the hider...however, my concern with this, is if you consider grave accoutrements to be "in-bounds"; the future cache seeker will naturally potentially find themselves looking through objects of nearby gravemakers which are not family members. This kind of hide will make cemetery placements problematic and possibly forbidden in the future, and affect the reputation of our hobby.

 

And, if cache review is to serve its purpose, consistency must be the watchword.

 

The cache reviewer is a moderator on these forums, and his perspective would be appreciated as well.

 

Opinions?

Edited by coleminers
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*To a more specific example...recently I submitted a new hide for approval...It was directly alongside the cemetery drive, 5 feet up the side of a very large and old deciduous tree in a hollow burl. The nearest stone was small ankle high ancient/unreadable and not proximal to the tree, probably 4 or 5 feet away.

The cache was disapproved/archived by our Ohio reviewer secondary to concerns about gravesite proximity. OK.

 

*Now, yesterday, I travel to another location in Ohio, and find a cache, approved by the same reviewer, surprisingly tucked in the flower vase attached to the gravemarker. That makes me very uncomfortable. The reviewer/cache owner will say that it is allowable because the gravemarker was the family member of the hider...however, my concern with this, is if you consider grave accoutrements to be "in-bounds"; the future cache seeker will naturally potentially find themselves looking through objects of nearby gravemakers which are not family members. This kind of hide will make cemetery placements problematic and possibly forbidden in the future, and affect the reputation of our hobby.

 

Opinions?

 

With regards to the placement issues you mentioned, especially the one on the "family" marker...

 

I was placing a cache "too close to RR tracks". The reviewer said that the fact that the cache was the same distance from RR tracks as a bus stop didn't matter. The "issue" was that someone "could" think the cache was closer to the RR tracks.

The same thought could be used for your placement and the one of the "family" tombstone. Someone "could" be searching someone elses gravesite looking for the cache.

 

That would say, to me, that it should not be allowed for the same reasons they would not allow a cache within the 150 feet of a RR track. I realize that a RR track is more dangerous than a tombstone but the proximity issues could be interpreted the same way.

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*To a more specific example...recently I submitted a new hide for approval...It was directly alongside the cemetery drive, 5 feet up the side of a very large and old deciduous tree in a hollow burl. The nearest stone was small ankle high ancient/unreadable and not proximal to the tree, probably 4 or 5 feet away.

The cache was disapproved/archived by our Ohio reviewer secondary to concerns about gravesite proximity. OK.

 

*Now, yesterday, I travel to another location in Ohio, and find a cache, approved by the same reviewer, surprisingly tucked in the flower vase attached to the gravemarker. That makes me very uncomfortable. The reviewer/cache owner will say that it is allowable because the gravemarker was the family member of the hider...however, my concern with this, is if you consider grave accoutrements to be "in-bounds"; the future cache seeker will naturally potentially find themselves looking through objects of nearby gravemakers which are not family members. This kind of hide will make cemetery placements problematic and possibly forbidden in the future, and affect the reputation of our hobby.

 

Opinions?

 

With regards to the placement issues you mentioned, especially the one on the "family" marker...

 

I was placing a cache "too close to RR tracks". The reviewer said that the fact that the cache was the same distance from RR tracks as a bus stop didn't matter. The "issue" was that someone "could" think the cache was closer to the RR tracks.

The same thought could be used for your placement and the one of the "family" tombstone. Someone "could" be searching someone elses gravesite looking for the cache.

 

That would say, to me, that it should not be allowed for the same reasons they would not allow a cache within the 150 feet of a RR track. I realize that a RR track is more dangerous than a tombstone but the proximity issues could be interpreted the same way.

a very logical approach...and I don't disagree. I would only propose that there must therefore be some amount of consistency in cache approval within this issue. If the policy should be that only caches on the periphery of a cemetery will be allowed, then that should be clearly stated.

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*To a more specific example...recently I submitted a new hide for approval...It was directly alongside the cemetery drive, 5 feet up the side of a very large and old deciduous tree in a hollow burl. The nearest stone was small ankle high ancient/unreadable and not proximal to the tree, probably 4 or 5 feet away.

The cache was disapproved/archived by our Ohio reviewer secondary to concerns about gravesite proximity. OK.

 

*Now, yesterday, I travel to another location in Ohio, and find a cache, approved by the same reviewer, surprisingly tucked in the flower vase attached to the gravemarker. That makes me very uncomfortable. The reviewer/cache owner will say that it is allowable because the gravemarker was the family member of the hider...however, my concern with this, is if you consider grave accoutrements to be "in-bounds"; the future cache seeker will naturally potentially find themselves looking through objects of nearby gravemakers which are not family members. This kind of hide will make cemetery placements problematic and possibly forbidden in the future, and affect the reputation of our hobby.

 

Opinions?

 

With regards to the placement issues you mentioned, especially the one on the "family" marker...

 

I was placing a cache "too close to RR tracks". The reviewer said that the fact that the cache was the same distance from RR tracks as a bus stop didn't matter. The "issue" was that someone "could" think the cache was closer to the RR tracks.

The same thought could be used for your placement and the one of the "family" tombstone. Someone "could" be searching someone elses gravesite looking for the cache.

 

That would say, to me, that it should not be allowed for the same reasons they would not allow a cache within the 150 feet of a RR track. I realize that a RR track is more dangerous than a tombstone but the proximity issues could be interpreted the same way.

a very logical approach...and I don't disagree. I would only propose that there must therefore be some amount of consistency in cache approval within this issue. If the policy should be that only caches on the periphery of a cemetery will be allowed, then that should be clearly stated.

I believe that reviewing cache placement is highly subjective.

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If we didn't cache in cemeteries, we'd hardly have any caches at all! I'm in the Saginaw Valley of Michigan, and probably 75% of our caches are in cemeteries. (The rest are stupid light pole caches, which aren't worth the time or trouble, but that's another topic.) The cemetery caches have taken me to quiet little out of the way spots that I didn't even know existed, full of history and interesting to investigate. Indeed, before I became a cacher, I would frequently explore cemeteries and take rubbings of the old headstones. I also work out on the road, and often pull off into cemeteries to eat luch in a quiet corner.

 

I love the cemetery caches, when they're well done and repsectful. I've only found two that I felt were in bad taste; one was a film can (which are lousy cache containers!) jammed into the ground right up against a tombstone, and the other required one to actually stand on a flat tombstone to reach up into a tree. But most of the time they are good caches.

 

I've placed a few caches, and almost all of them are in cemeteries. I make an effort to research the history of the area and write about the people for my cache page. And all of my hides are off on the edge, sometimes even through the fence, never at a tombstone.

 

And not all cachers are idjits! I've seen a lot of comments about cachers disrupting funerals, etc., and don't tar everyone with the same brush! My caching friend Kat and I were out on a big caching run, and wanted to get one last find....however when we got to the cemetery, there was a service going on, so we quietly turned around and left. And we had gone alsomst 20 miles out of our way for this stop!

 

So it still, as always, comes down to your own decision. If you don't like cemetery caches, don't do them - but don't get nasty with those of us who like them. If you do like them, just be respectful.

 

Why do things always get so complicated?

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My very first find was actually in a cemetary it took me to a memorial dedicated to soldiers.

 

Im fine with caches in a cemetery as long as they are respectful

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Based on today's release notes, I guess it might be time to reanimate this thread, since I don't wish to hijack a thread that is predominately about the release itself.

 

 

OpinionNate says that this is just a clarification of existing policies. I don't buy it. It places cemeteries in the same light as archeological sites when it comes to hiding caches. The existing policy generally has allowed cemetery caches (based upon local reviewer's bias), but archeological sites I believe have essentially been banned... or at least disallowed without explicit, written permission.

 

 

And even if the policy with Groundspeak and local reviewers hasn't changed, the geocaching fundamentalists will declare this as the Word of Frog and preach from the pulpits that it is geo-sin to hide a cache in a cemetery.

 

 

I have no cemetery hides, aside from one that is a bison tube hanging on the fence outside of a very old cemetery. But I very much enjoy cemetery caches. They have brought me to many old country cemeteries that I would have otherwise driven right past. If they are truely banned by the change in guidelines (and again... TPTB insist that nothing has changed) I find it a sad day in geocaching history.

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Based on today's release notes, I guess it might be time to reanimate this thread, since I don't wish to hijack a thread that is predominately about the release itself.

 

 

OpinionNate says that this is just a clarification of existing policies. I don't buy it. It places cemeteries in the same light as archeological sites when it comes to hiding caches. The existing policy generally has allowed cemetery caches (based upon local reviewer's bias), but archeological sites I believe have essentially been banned... or at least disallowed without explicit, written permission.

 

 

And even if the policy with Groundspeak and local reviewers hasn't changed, the geocaching fundamentalists will declare this as the Word of Frog and preach from the pulpits that it is geo-sin to hide a cache in a cemetery.

 

 

 

I have no cemetery hides, aside from one that is a bison tube hanging on the fence outside of a very old cemetery. But I very much enjoy cemetery caches. They have brought me to many old country cemeteries that I would have otherwise driven right past. If they are truly banned by the change in guidelines (and again... TPTB insist that nothing has changed) I find it a sad day in geocaching history.

 

I'm with ya I love cemetery caches after a find I spent time looking at the stones they are what I consider some of the most interesting sites I have gone to get a cache. Seems like LPC will be the only allowable hide spot soon. :mad:

 

Scubasonic

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As a cache reviewer in a territory where cemetery caches are quite popular, I don't plan on changing my review standards one bit. That wasn't the purpose of today's wording changes. I do, however, now have specific guideline language to which I can point when someone disagrees with my handling of their cemetery cache. For this, I am most grateful.

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I think, especially after Sundays cache adventure, that caches in cemetaries are a great way to bring people to cemetaries that would otherwise be forgotten and overgrow into nothingness.

 

I am going to call on Scubasonic to agree with me since we both recently found a cache (not found together but we both logged it and posted in this thread) that is a great example of what I mean.

There is a cache called "11" that is in a small pioneer cemetary that the highway has hidden. I would venture to guess that there are less than 1 in 10,000 people who drive by this cemetary all the time and have no clue it exists.

It's obvious that the residents wanted to be buried somewhere where they would be remembered and geocaching draws people to this cemetary to remember those who perished.

 

Perhaps not worded so eloquent, but hopefully my post is understood.

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As I have said before, my wife and I put up a total of 29 cemeteries in our county. We called it the Riley Necropolis' Series. We posted rules to follow, and although some have been disobeyed, we have seen no trouble from it. We avoided large city cemeteries and mainly focused on small country cemeteries. As of now, two other counties next to ours have taken up the idea, and have really brought more caches to the area. We enjoy them, take pictures, look at names, heck even smell the flowers. If someone doesn't like what myself and other are doing, that is their thing. It will be a shame to see cemetery caches being banned. Too many rules takes the fun out of things.

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It will be a shame to see cemetery caches being banned. Too many rules takes the fun out of things.

 

 

Just to keep things in perspective, those "in the know" have stated that cemetery caches are not banned. That nothing has changed but the guidelines wording. However, I'm afraid that the new wording does put us one step closer to that.

 

 

Re: Bittsen's post... yes, we have a series in Wisconsin that was put out that takes you to cemeteries that have been overgrown for generations. The rusty old iron gates creak as you open them (if the gate is still in place). Many of the headstones have fallen or broken, many are moss covered. Almost all are marble or limestone... not the newer polished granite. Few, if any, artificial flowers or other signs of recent visits by ancestors or caretakers. Falled trees... trees even growing inside of the wrought iron fences that surround some of the graves.

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It will be a shame to see cemetery caches being banned. Too many rules takes the fun out of things.

Just to keep things in perspective, those "in the know" have stated that cemetery caches are not banned. That nothing has changed but the guidelines wording. However, I'm afraid that the new wording does put us one step closer to that.

Ahh, but it's not Groundspeak banning caches in cemeteries. It's the cities, counties, and cemetery districts that are banning caching in their cemeteries. In many areas we're not banned yet, but we have to tread very lightly to avoid an outright ban. The wording change in the guidelines just gives the reviewers in those areas something to cite when they're telling a newbie to move their new cache to the trees that border the cemetery instead of in that animal hole under the headstone :mad:

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Caching has been banned in cemeterys in the UK since July 2008 due to concerns raised, unless the premission has been provided to the reviewer:

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...amp;hl=cemetery

 

So in the UK I only see this a clarification of an exsiting rule, and I am assuming that it has become a concern in other areas as well.

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I just found a much better alternative to placing a geocache in a cemetery. Not that I won't do it again but...I recently gave Waymarking another try and I decided if I'm going to try it to at least give it more then a passing glance. I realized that I can waymark cemeteries and not place a physical container. Waymarking is a little newer then geocaching but it is still growing and I think its a wonderful way to add to a cemetery experience. One cemetery I just waymarked in the world wide cemetery database catagory is in my own hometown. It now has 2 waymarks and will soon have 3. One is the cemetery itself, another is Edward Haynes Sargent the man who changed the face of NY when he engineered and designed the Great Sacandaga Lake, and the next waymark will be a double. I'm going to waymark the benchmark and then log it myself. Right now I have 1 cemetery that is waymarked with a cannon and I know of at least 2 other cemeteries with cannons. Granted I still think the site needs work but I think in many cases a cemetery should have a waymark instead of a geocache. Just my personal opinion. Swizzle

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Caching has been banned in cemeterys in the UK since July 2008 due to concerns raised, unless the premission has been provided to the reviewer:

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...amp;hl=cemetery

 

So in the UK I only see this a clarification of an exsiting rule, and I am assuming that it has become a concern in other areas as well.

 

If I remeber well in Ireland is the same rule from few months ago.

 

Thanks to everybody for clarification.

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I moved a post from Nate's Release Notes thread and edited the Title and Subtitle so that "cemetery" is spelled correctly.

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Based on today's release notes, I guess it might be time to reanimate this thread, since I don't wish to hijack a thread that is predominately about the release itself.

 

OpinionNate says that this is just a clarification of existing policies. I don't buy it.

You should buy it.
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As a cache reviewer in a territory where cemetery caches are quite popular, I don't plan on changing my review standards one bit. That wasn't the purpose of today's wording changes. I do, however, now have specific guideline language to which I can point when someone disagrees with my handling of their cemetery cache. For this, I am most grateful.

Thank you, Keystone!

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For those of you who like it when I post in the Forums, let me give you another installation.

 

The world is very large.

 

Within this very large world are very many subdivisions of space, and just as many types of management policies. Land managers aware of geocaching like to see that we honor their wishes and that we communicate their wishes to the general geocaching public. The guidelines page was very quiet on cemetery hides and so we finally added text to address that. This way, those who manage cemeteries can see that it is, in fact, a part of our guidelines.

 

The cemetery wording change in yesterday’s Release Notes was just a clarification of an already existing policy. Nothing has changed, therefore no explanation is needed. (OpinioNate already stated this.)

Please rest assured that your reviewers have all been instructed to do with cemetery caches as they have been doing the day before yesterday’s Release Notes.

 

Many cemeteries are legislated as public lands that people are welcome to visit, to take solemn walks in, and in some cases even, to have a picnic there. In other areas already mentioned in posts above this, cemetery managers have banned caching. In most areas around this large world, the people who are in charge haven’t made a decision yet on how they feel about geocaching and cemeteries.

 

As such, Groundspeak does not intend to make one singular stance on cemeteries. This is why we have local experts (your reviewers) who know the deal in their respective territories. They know the right thing to do. They have been doing that and they’ll continue to do the same.

 

What did the guidelines say before?

 

1. Off-Limit (Physical) Caches - 4th bullet

Caches may be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not exhaustive):

...

Caches placed in areas which are highly sensitive to the extra traffic that would be caused by vehicles and humans (examples may include archaeological or historic sites).

 

2. Guidelines that Apply to all Cache Types

For all physical caches and waypoints, think carefully about how your container and the actions of geocachers will be perceived by the public. For example, a cache hidden in full view of office or apartment building windows exposes a geocacher to being seen by someone who may think the cache search looks suspicious. Your cache may be hidden on public property, but there may be concerned residents on the other side of that property line.

 

 

What do the Guidelines say after August 25, 2009?

 

1. Off-Limit (Physical) Caches - 4th bullet

Caches may be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not exhaustive):

....

Caches placed in areas which are highly sensitive to the extra traffic that would be caused by vehicles and humans (examples may include archaeological or historic sites and cemeteries).

 

2. Guidelines that Apply to all Cache Types

For all physical caches and waypoints, think carefully about how your container and the actions of geocachers will be perceived by the public. Be respectful when considering cache and waypoint placements in areas which are highly sensitive to the extra traffic that would be caused by vehicles and humans (examples may include archaeological or historic sites and cemeteries). For example, a cache hidden in full view of office or apartment building windows exposes a geocacher to being seen by someone who may think the cache search looks suspicious. Your cache may be hidden on public property with permission, but there may be concerned residents on the other side of that property line.

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I would have perferred it to be worded a bit differently.

 

Something like "certain cemetaries" or "some cemetaries" or "cemetaries in certain areas".

 

It remains clear that there exists many cemetaries that are quite geocaching friendly.

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I would have perferred it to be worded a bit differently.

 

Something like "certain cemetaries" or "some cemetaries" or "cemetaries in certain areas".

 

It remains clear that there exists many cemetaries that are quite geocaching friendly.

 

Right.

 

As you've pointed out, if you followed the guidelines, cemetery caches would be archived quickly, just as archeological site caches.

 

Rather than just tell us to ignore what it says since Groundspeak says nothing has changed, they should fix the guidelines.

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Hey - Members here is an idea.

 

I love geocaching as I am sure most of you do (as you are reading this forum).

 

I'm going to tell my wife and put in my will that I want a geocache IN MY HEADSTONE!!! I hereby grant all of your permission to visit.

 

Does this solve the issue about hallowed ground - or whatever. IF the dead guy WANTS you to vist his cache then you have permission.

 

Anybody that beats me to the grave - feel free to use my idea - I'll come find you.

Edited by Pokerfart
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You can't bury caches or use anything to create a hole in the ground for it. :ph34r:

Edited by Wintonian
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As long as this is not a ban on some of the greatest geocaches in existence I'm ok.

 

If this is a step toward banning them, well then I will be quite angry.

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Based on today's release notes, I guess it might be time to reanimate this thread, since I don't wish to hijack a thread that is predominately about the release itself.

 

OpinionNate says that this is just a clarification of existing policies. I don't buy it.

You should buy it.

 

 

I should probably make it clear that I wasn't doubting Nate personally, but the "corporate speak" that I felt he was simply echoing.

 

 

Thanks for your clarification posting. That does calm me down a bit. Its just that I've seen too many times how anything that GS puts into writing soon becomes "sacred text" by some. But considering that the same guideline mentions "historical site", yet knowing that are plenty of historical sites that have caches, I guess it doesn't scare me as much.

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For those of you who like it when I post in the Forums, let me give you another installation.

....

Thank You. That clarifies it for me.

 

Before - caches should think carefully about how your container and the actions of geocachers will be perceived by the public; and caches may be archived if placed in areas which are highly sensitive to the extra traffic that would be caused by vehicles and humans.

 

Examples of such places were given. Those examples were not an exhaustive list.

 

There are many different cemeteries. There are small historic cemeteries where few visit. There are large cemeteries with open space and park like settings, some that even encourage people to come for a picnic lunch or a contemplative walk. There are small cemeteries that are gated and private. Many cemeteries are associated with a particular religious denomination or ethnic group. Sometimes religious beliefs are that the cemetery grounds are sacred and should be visited only by mourners paying respect to the dead. Some groups have historically had their cemeteries vandalized by bigots and are understandably concerned if outsiders come to visit.

 

Geocaching has grown in popularity. If you hide a cache in a cemetery is will get more than just a few occasional visits (unless it is a very remote cemetery). This has resulted in more complaints from people who see a group of geocachers in the cemetery that look like they don't belong there. Sometimes, there are complaints because someone's religious beliefs are that using the cemetery to play a game, even when done respectfully, is not appropriate.

 

The existing guidelines have been clarified to show they apply to cemeteries - just in case some geocacher couldn't figure it out. And as stated, Groundspeak can now deal with issues from cemeteries better by pointing out that geocachers are asked to consider the repercussions that may arise if they place a cache in a cemetery. If there are complaints, it will be easier for the reviewer to archive the offending cache by pointing to the same guidelines they would have used before - along with the most obvious guideline that is quoted when a cemetery cache causes a problem - that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location. It seems that nothing has changed regarding whether or not cemetery caches will be approved (some reviews may ask you if you have considered the impacts you cache might have), nor should this change the reasons why a cemetery cache may get archived.

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Based on today's release notes, I guess it might be time to reanimate this thread, since I don't wish to hijack a thread that is predominately about the release itself.

 

OpinionNate says that this is just a clarification of existing policies. I don't buy it.

You should buy it.

 

 

I should probably make it clear that I wasn't doubting Nate personally, but the "corporate speak" that I felt he was simply echoing.

 

 

Thanks for your clarification posting. That does calm me down a bit. Its just that I've seen too many times how anything that GS puts into writing soon becomes "sacred text" by some. But considering that the same guideline mentions "historical site", yet knowing that are plenty of historical sites that have caches, I guess it doesn't scare me as much.

 

I know it's tempting to let your imaginations run wild but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

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Hey - Members here is an idea.

 

I love geocaching as I am sure most of you do (as you are reading this forum).

 

I'm going to tell my wife and put in my will that I want a geocache IN MY HEADSTONE!!! I hereby grant all of your permission to visit.

 

Does this solve the issue about hallowed ground - or whatever. IF the dead guy WANTS you to vist his cache then you have permission.

 

Anybody that beats me to the grave - feel free to use my idea - I'll come find you.

 

Already been done.... and the COs still walk among us. click here

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