Wherigo Builder and 64-bit Windows

[+mty55]

I downloaded the Wherigo Builder to my new laptop today. Its running Vista 64 bit OS. I wanted to run a saved cartridge to check out a question I had on the emulator. Thats not going to happen on this laptop. Fortunately the builder loaded on my desktop running Vista 32bit and it runs fine. Anyone else run into this problem?

[matejcik]

er, just about everyone who tried it (on a 64bit vista, that is)?

maybe looking around the forums could help ... see for example this solution

[+mty55]

er, just about everyone who tried it (on a 64bit vista, that is)?

maybe looking around the forums could help ... see for example this solution

 

For now I'll just use my desktop. But I will check out other threads to find a solution, after all I bought the laptop to be mobile.

 

Thanks

[Ranger Fox]

I guess another solution would be dual-booting. Or remote desktopping to another 32-bit computer in your house. Hardly ideal.

 

I need to bug Groundspeak about a 64-bit version...

[+scavok]

On my laptop on the main hard drive there are two Program Files folders. One of them is the regular "Program Files" and the other is "Program Files (x86)."

 

By default most programs will install to the x86 folder. If there is software (like Wherigo builder) that can't run on the 64 bit, just make sure to specify during install to install it in to the regular program files folder. I did it that way and have no problems at all.

 

I don't know if this is possible on all computers (this is my first 64-bit PC). But worth checking out

Edited January 29, 2009 by scavok

[certik]

On my laptop on the main hard drive there are two Program Files folders. One of them is the regular "Program Files" and the other is "Program Files (x86)."

 

By default most programs will install to the x86 folder. If there is software (like Wherigo builder) that can't run on the 64 bit, just make sure to specify during install to install it in to the regular program files folder. I did it that way and have no problems at all.

 

I don't know if this is possible on all computers (this is my first 64-bit PC). But worth checking out

 

actually, the problem is the builder running natively in 64bit on 64bit OS. Builder is written in .NET, and .NET is similar to java - it's not native machine code and its run in a virtual machine. So it runs in 32bit on 32bit OS and 64bit on 64bit OS. Problem is, the real emulator binary is an 32bit binary, and you can't simply call parts of 32bit binaries from 64bit application.

 

The solution is, on the other side, quite simple. There's an easy way to set a 32bit flag in the Builder .EXE file and then it will run in 32bit environment, and so that it can call the 32bit emulator library.

 

You need to get this utility:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms164699(VS.80).aspx

i think it's a part of some MS .NET SDKs (Visual Studio?)

I think this is the link:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details...;displaylang=en

 

and use the parameter /32bit+, for example ""corflags /32BIT+ MyApp.exe" where MyApp.exe is the Builder binary. After you do this, everything will work fine.

 

and of course, the Wherigo people should be told about the issue, because they can very simply set this flag during the build process.

Edited February 20, 2009 by certik

[a_snail]

It Works!!!!!!!!

 

A big thanks Certik. Thats been annoying a lot of people.

 

To save everyone having to download 350Mb of stuff and install it, then get past Vista's security measures, I've included the patched exe

 

Install the builder if you have uninstalled it, or not bother installing it yet, then

overwrite your WherigoBuilder.exe which is probably located:

"C:\Program Files (x86)\Groundspeak\Wherigo\Builder\WherigoBuilder.exe"

 

Hopefully this uploaded version is not against copyright or some such thing, if so, perhaps Groundspeak could make the fixes to their install.

 

Finally I can now get rid of my Virtual Machine work around - hurray

WherigoBuilder.zip

Edited February 21, 2009 by a_snail

[Ranger Fox]

Yes, that does seem to work. I didn't know a utility existed to change an application's environment like that. Sure enough, it does work. This is definitely a must-know for anyone running a 64-bit Windows OS. I'll pin it to the top of the forum.

 

By the way, I created a batch file and ran it from the command line:

"C:\Program Files\Microsoft.NET\SDK\v2.0 64bit\Bin\CorFlags.exe" /32BIT+ "C:\Program Files (x86)\Groundspeak\Wherigo\Builder\WherigoBuilder.exe"

 

Edit: I forgot to say thank you, certik. You certainly entered the forums with a big splash!

Edited February 23, 2009 by Ranger Fox

[a_snail]

Yes, that does seem to work. I didn't know a utility existed to change an application's environment like that. Sure enough, it does work. This is definitely a must-know for anyone running a 64-bit Windows OS. I'll pin it to the top of the forum.

 

By the way, I created a batch file and ran it from the command line:

"C:\Program Files\Microsoft.NET\SDK\v2.0 64bit\Bin\CorFlags.exe" /32BIT+ "C:\Program Files (x86)\Groundspeak\Wherigo\Builder\WherigoBuilder.exe"

 

Edit: I forgot to say thank you, certik. You certainly entered the forums with a big splash!

 

Quick Note: For those people who havn't yet disabled UAC (needing to elevate your rights to do administrative types of things), you will need to make sure you run the batch file (or command prompt) using "Run as Administrator" othewise you will just get errors.

[kvhollis]

I guess another solution would be dual-booting. Or remote desktopping to another 32-bit computer in your house. Hardly ideal.

 

I need to bug Groundspeak about a 64-bit version...

 

Don't stop....

 

Sooner rather than later would also be nice. I'm really tired of losing about every cartridge now due to corruption on my Vista laptop.

[+Starf]

It Works!!!!!!!!

 

A big thanks Certik. Thats been annoying a lot of people.

 

To save everyone having to download 350Mb of stuff and install it, then get past Vista's security measures, I've included the patched exe

 

Install the builder if you have uninstalled it, or not bother installing it yet, then

overwrite your WherigoBuilder.exe which is probably located:

"C:\Program Files (x86)\Groundspeak\Wherigo\Builder\WherigoBuilder.exe"

 

Hopefully this uploaded version is not against copyright or some such thing, if so, perhaps Groundspeak could make the fixes to their install.

 

Finally I can now get rid of my Virtual Machine work around - hurray

Thanks for the file. It works fine!

[+JohnE5]

Works for me now, thanks.

[+Sargents]

I am still experiencing issues. I realize that this is a 64 bit issue but at the very least ground speak should post that this does not work with 64 bit vista or Win7. Does anyone have a solution for the map which I still cannoit get top work or am I totally off base and this is a separate issue. Iam really new to Wherigo builder so be nice

Marc

[a_snail]

I am still experiencing issues. I realize that this is a 64 bit issue but at the very least ground speak should post that this does not work with 64 bit vista or Win7. Does anyone have a solution for the map which I still cannoit get top work or am I totally off base and this is a separate issue. Iam really new to Wherigo builder so be nice

Marc

 

Sadly the map is a separate issue. There are workarounds, none very nice. You might be better off trying some of the alternative utilities like Earwigo, or the other one which I have just totaly forgotten the name of, but I'm sure looking around you will find its name or some nice person can post. In both cases the mapping is working fine. Oh and I belive the other two alterantives work fine in any of the Windows versions.

 

Good luck

A_Snail

[+sTeamTraen]

Oh and I belive the other two alterantives work fine in any of the Windows versions.

Earwigo works on pretty much anything that will support a browser with Javascript.

[+Mickey and Goofy]

It Works!!!!!!!!

 

A big thanks Certik. Thats been annoying a lot of people.

 

To save everyone having to download 350Mb of stuff and install it, then get past Vista's security measures, I've included the patched exe

 

Install the builder if you have uninstalled it, or not bother installing it yet, then

overwrite your WherigoBuilder.exe which is probably located:

"C:\Program Files (x86)\Groundspeak\Wherigo\Builder\WherigoBuilder.exe"

 

Hopefully this uploaded version is not against copyright or some such thing, if so, perhaps Groundspeak could make the fixes to their install.

 

Finally I can now get rid of my Virtual Machine work around - hurray

 

ThankYou that worked for me!

[+Trekkin' and birdin']

Is there a "fix for dummies" somewhere, you know, that looks like the Wherigo tutorial? I have been experiencing this issue trying to create my first cartridge, and now at least I understand the issue. I don't however have the tech savvy to understand some of the directions explaining just how to repair the issue. I have a Windows Vista laptop, so presumably, I need to install some kind of patch or something. Beyond that, I don't understand what all you're all saying I'd need to do. Thanks!

[Ranger Fox]

Is there a "fix for dummies" somewhere, you know, that looks like the Wherigo tutorial? I have been experiencing this issue trying to create my first cartridge, and now at least I understand the issue. I don't however have the tech savvy to understand some of the directions explaining just how to repair the issue. I have a Windows Vista laptop, so presumably, I need to install some kind of patch or something. Beyond that, I don't understand what all you're all saying I'd need to do. Thanks!

Open notepad and copy to it the line I have in post #8. On a new line, type "pause" without the quotation marks (this will allow you to view the output). Save the file as "Wherigo.bat" to your desktop. Make sure it is .bat and not .bat.txt. Now, double-click on the file. The command prompt will open and the script should do its thing.

 

I can also give you a really basic step-by-step instruction if you'd like.

[+Trekkin' and birdin']

Thanks, I'll give this a try and hopefully that will do it for me.

[+j-annie]

Is there a "fix for dummies" somewhere, you know, that looks like the Wherigo tutorial? I have been experiencing this issue trying to create my first cartridge, and now at least I understand the issue. I don't however have the tech savvy to understand some of the directions explaining just how to repair the issue. I have a Windows Vista laptop, so presumably, I need to install some kind of patch or something. Beyond that, I don't understand what all you're all saying I'd need to do. Thanks!

Open notepad and copy to it the line I have in post #8. On a new line, type "pause" without the quotation marks (this will allow you to view the output). Save the file as "Wherigo.bat" to your desktop. Make sure it is .bat and not .bat.txt. Now, double-click on the file. The command prompt will open and the script should do its thing.

 

I can also give you a really basic step-by-step instruction if you'd like.

I have tried all proposals above.

I first installed it in program files instead in (x86) but then I tried to install the Microsoft. Net Framework 2.0 as suggested in the editor installation lines. Win7 did not like this. Then I made an installation in (x86) and put in the unziped file by the snail instead of the exe file. But I have had no luck. I think a basic step by step instruction could be a nice step to solv this issue for us. Please

[Ranger Fox]

I looked on another cacher's computer and saw most of the problem you described. I couldn't resolve it over the phone due to his lack of time. Let me try to arrange a time I can visit him at his house and solve the problem, then I'll get back with you with step-by-step instructions.

 

The problem, as I understood it over the phone, involves the .Net SDK (software development kit). The file you need for this solution isn't included in a normal .Net download; that's part of the problem he was having.

[+gvsu4msu]

recently got an OS upgrade to Windows 7 on the new laptop. Then discovered the Groundspeak Builder did not work.

 

The updates above appear to have worked on my end.

 

I was able to open a cartridge (LUA file) now, and open a GWC file in the emulator.

 

Thanks for posts everyone.

Edited June 21, 2011 by gvsu4msu

[+redhead3434]

The patched exe file works, thanks Certik and a_snail for your help.

[+gvsu4msu]

recently got an OS upgrade to Windows 7 on the new laptop. Then discovered the Groundspeak Builder did not work.

 

The updates above appear to have worked on my end.

 

I was able to open a cartridge (LUA file) now, and open a GWC file in the emulator.

 

Thanks for posts everyone.

 

Well it looks like this only worked for a couple of months. The Emulator portion is not working anymore. To be more specific, it lets me emulate a file I have the native LUA for, but not a GWC file (and since this is needed for a local Wherigo, this is a problem).

 

Anyone smart enough to help me out?

[+LordSoth]

Your file copied & pasted into the directory you describe works perfectly for me running Windows 7 Ultimate.

 

Many thanks

 

John :lol:

 

It Works!!!!!!!!

 

A big thanks Certik. Thats been annoying a lot of people.

 

To save everyone having to download 350Mb of stuff and install it, then get past Vista's security measures, I've included the patched exe

 

Install the builder if you have uninstalled it, or not bother installing it yet, then

overwrite your WherigoBuilder.exe which is probably located:

"C:\Program Files (x86)\Groundspeak\Wherigo\Builder\WherigoBuilder.exe"

 

Hopefully this uploaded version is not against copyright or some such thing, if so, perhaps Groundspeak could make the fixes to their install.

 

Finally I can now get rid of my Virtual Machine work around - hurray

[+gvsu4msu]

I have uninstalled the original builder.

 

I have installed the Groundspeak builder

 

I have overwritten the Groundspeak builder with the a_snail file

 

When I open the builder and go to emulator mode, it stops working.

 

Can someone give me some guidance on how to get this to run on Windows 7?

 

I have tried the instructions above but not getting any success.

 

Is there an issue with the .NET thing I may need? I think my computer has version 4 on it. Is this what is hosing me up?

[+JeanJensen]

After re-installing and overwritten the .exe-filen with the on in #7, I'm stil having problems...

 

[Ranger Fox]

Unfortunately, this is a known issue, JeanJensen. I would guess TerraServer updated its service and the web service call the Builder makes needs to be modified.

[+worldtraveler]

Unfortunately, this is a known issue, JeanJensen. I would guess TerraServer updated its service and the web service call the Builder makes needs to be modified.

Thanks for the update, Ranger Fox. Does this mean what I think it does - that the aforementioned fixes/patches/workarounds are not going to work now on any 64-bit (Vista and Windows 7) system?

[Ranger Fox]

The patches and workarounds will work on a 64-bit system (this is how I'm able to run Groundspeak's Builder on my machine with 16GB RAM). However, this does not address the TerraServer issue.

[+twin_57103]

Thanks for the fix! I am running Windows 7 64-bit and had the same error. It would be nice to see Groundspeak update since this software doesn't work on a large portions of the computer market, or at least put a disclaimer on it (yes, I realize they state it runs Win 2K and XP, without specifying newer OS's, but I'd like to see it explicitly rather than fumbling through errors).

[+cirramqc]

Hi, need some help, please.

 

I ran the line in #8 but get an error message before it can do much... (I ran the file as administrator)

 

corflags : error CF001 : Could not open file for writing

 

Any ideas? What am I doing wrong?

Thanks

Edited April 23, 2012 by cirramqc

[Ranger Fox]

I've heard that happen with some later versions of the framework. See what happens when you replace your builder file altogether with the one uploaded in post #7. I've heard of some people having good luck with that.

[+Sievebrain]

Sorry to add to this thread, but is my problem below a 64 bit problem or a user error (very likely!)

I have created lots of zones using your kit program (thanks for that a great utility) I wanted to check the zone ares on a map to make sure they are big enough in the right size etc. When I click Zones edit, I get a list bottom left of 4 zone points. I wanted to check them.

I tried create from map and got the 1st 2 below boxes, and then it opens a blank map. I tried view shape, seem to show an oblong somewhere and edit on line brings up the final two screen shots (first the error one, and then I click No and get the background shot shown last.

Am I just asking the wrong thing, or is something wrong please Ranger Fox, can you help again?!

[Ranger Fox]

The first two error messages are because TerraServer modified their service and Groundspeak never updated their builder to take advantage of that.

 

The last two screen shots are funny. An API key wasn't included in the emulator (the cause for its maps going crazy), yet the web page here has an API key. Huh. Anyway, I'll see what I can do. Since I doubt I can make something with Greasemonkey (the only way I can possibly inject a fix into this mess), it'll be up to Groundspeak to fix this. Fortunately, I have a meeting with them next week.

[+redsox_mark]

I've recently moved to Windows 7. I applied A_Snail's fix in post 7, and the editor itself works.

But the Emulator does not.

 

I get a variety of errors. First a map error. Then several script errors. Then when I try and play a cartridge, I get more script errors, and eventually an exception.

 

Any ideas?

[Ranger Fox]

And you applied this fix, too, redsox_mark?

[+redsox_mark]

And you applied this fix, too, redsox_mark?

 

Oops - sorry, missed that one. I've applied that, and now it works! (Version 3 complete with Ranger Fox graphic).

Thanks!

[+-KROP-]

The fix appears to work for me too on windows 7 x64

 

Thanks!

[+Sharknose Bunnies]

Thanks for the file fix and for the map fix and for the info here! I'm building a Wherigo through Earwigo, and wanted to run it in the Wherigo Emulator. It wasn't working at first, but with the fixes it's working just fine.

 

It's helpful to have an emulator to test things.

[+Mickey and Goofy]

It Works!!!!!!!!

 

A big thanks Certik. Thats been annoying a lot of people.

 

To save everyone having to download 350Mb of stuff and install it, then get past Vista's security measures, I've included the patched exe

 

Install the builder if you have uninstalled it, or not bother installing it yet, then

overwrite your WherigoBuilder.exe which is probably located:

"C:\Program Files (x86)\Groundspeak\Wherigo\Builder\WherigoBuilder.exe"

 

Hopefully this uploaded version is not against copyright or some such thing, if so, perhaps Groundspeak could make the fixes to their install.

 

Finally I can now get rid of my Virtual Machine work around - hurray

 

Thanks it now works great with my Windows 8.1!

[+HikingSeal]

To save everyone having to download 350Mb of stuff and install it, then get past Vista's security measures, I've included the patched exe

 

Install the builder if you have uninstalled it, or not bother installing it yet, then

overwrite your WherigoBuilder.exe which is probably located:

"C:\Program Files (x86)\Groundspeak\Wherigo\Builder\WherigoBuilder.exe"

 

 

Over 5 years later this is still a valuable fix. Thank you!

 

Now if Groundspeak would just do something with Wherigo or at least sell it to someone who would.

[+CWillyPngn]

Hi All:

 

I recently bought a Dell Laptop with Windows 7 Professional. I downloaded the Wherigo builder and it appears to be working so far. However when I click on emulator to test one of my cartridges, I received this error message. Any suggestions on how to resolve this issue?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

CWillyPngn

 

at Player.frmMain..ctor()

at ZonesAuthor.frmMain.menuCartridgeEmulator_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e)

at System.Windows.Forms.MenuItem.OnClick(EventArgs e)

at System.Windows.Forms.Command.Invoke()

at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmCommand(Message& m)

at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)

at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)

at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)

 

************** Loaded Assemblies **************

mscorlib

Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0

Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5483 (Win7SP1GDR.050727-5400)

CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework64/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll

----------------------------------------

WherigoBuilder

Assembly Version: 2.0.5129.5086

Win32 Version: 2.0.5129.5086

CodeBase: file:///C:/Program%20Files%20(x86)/Groundspeak/Wherigo/Builder/WherigoBuilder.exe

----------------------------------------

System.Windows.Forms

Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0

Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5483 (Win7SP1GDR.050727-5400)

CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll

----------------------------------------

System

Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0

Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5467 (Win7SP1GDR.050727-5400)

CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll

----------------------------------------

System.Drawing

Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0

Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5483 (Win7SP1GDR.050727-5400)

CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll

----------------------------------------

System.Xml

Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0

Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.5483 (Win7SP1GDR.050727-5400)

CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll

----------------------------------------

ZonesFramework

Assembly Version: 1.0.2104.4260

Win32 Version: 1.0.2104.4260

CodeBase: file:///C:/Program%20Files%20(x86)/Groundspeak/Wherigo/Builder/ZonesFramework.DLL

----------------------------------------

Player

Assembly Version: 1.0.3072.27804

Win32 Version: 1.0.0.0

CodeBase: file:///C:/Program%20Files%20(x86)/Groundspeak/Wherigo/Builder/Player.DLL

----------------------------------------

GeoFramework.Gps

Assembly Version: 2.3.3600.13

Win32 Version: 2.3.3600.13

CodeBase: file:///C:/Program%20Files%20(x86)/Groundspeak/Wherigo/Builder/GeoFramework.Gps.DLL

----------------------------------------

GeoFramework

Assembly Version: 1.4.3600.3

Win32 Version: 1.4.3600.3

CodeBase: file:///C:/Program%20Files%20(x86)/Groundspeak/Wherigo/Builder/GeoFramework.DLL

----------------------------------------

Microsoft.WindowsCE.Forms

Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0

Win32 Version: 2.0.7045.00

CodeBase: file:///C:/Program%20Files%20(x86)/Groundspeak/Wherigo/Builder/Microsoft.WindowsCE.Forms.DLL

----------------------------------------

 

************** JIT Debugging **************

To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this

application or computer (machine.config) must have the

jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.

The application must also be compiled with debugging

enabled.

 

For example:

 

<configuration>

<system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />

</configuration>

 

When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception

will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer

rather than be handled by this dialog box.

[Geo-Magician]

You have posted your question to the thread that I would suggest to you. I assume you have done the modifications mentioned in

Warning 1. and 2. on this page?

 

http://earwigo.net/WWB/wiki/doku.php?id=tips_and_tricks#testing_your_cartridge

 

Let us know if you have done the modifications.

[+CWillyPngn]

Oops I forgot about that page! I made the modifications as the page suggested including both patches for the GS builder and the emulator map. The emulator works like a charm! The RangerFox avatar was a nice addition.

 

Thanks for your help!

 

CWillyPngn

[Ranger Fox]

Please don't be rough as you drag me around. I may be a willing participant, but please handle with care.

 

(Now that I think about it, it would be fun to come out with an Easter egg version of the maps. Perhaps if you're testing a cartridge too late at night, I could turn into a pumpkin. Or if it's close to Halloween, you could be dragging around a zombie--or a zombie could randomly spawn on your map and try to eat me! Why, yes, I do have a silly side!)

[+koddde]

you're so great! it's working now thx

[+hardyp3]

Whoopee! I loaded up the Whereyougo app on my Nexus 7 a couple of months ago and played several of the local mid Missouri Wherigo caches and now, tonight, I downloaded the builder, ran it on my Dell Win8.1 laptop, it couldn't even read back the .lua files it was writing, downloaded the patched version, IT WORKED! I even managed to crank out a .lua version of Hello World using my back yard as a zone. I'm off and running now. Thanks for everyone's help here.

[+8Nuts MotherGoose]

I downloaded and replaced the Wherigo builder.exe and map v3. Now I finally have the Emulator working on my 64bit windows 7 computer.

On a “Play Anywhere” Cartridge, I get the message, “This is a play anywhere cartridge, do you want to set a starting point from an address?” [Yes] [No]

If I click NO it closes the game. If I click YES it opens a small window to fill in an address. Once I fill in the address and click OK, I get the message, “Error looking up address: The remote name could not be resolved: ‘api.local.yahoo.com’“ When I click OK it closes the game.

I’ve tried many different addresses. All fail.

I haven’t found any other Play Anywhere cartridges to see if they give the same problem.

Can someone help resolve this?

[+OHail]

I downloaded and replaced the Wherigo builder.exe and map v3. Now I finally have the Emulator working on my 64bit windows 7 computer.

On a “Play Anywhere” Cartridge, I get the message, “This is a play anywhere cartridge, do you want to set a starting point from an address?” [Yes] [No]

If I click NO it closes the game. If I click YES it opens a small window to fill in an address. Once I fill in the address and click OK, I get the message, “Error looking up address: The remote name could not be resolved: ‘api.local.yahoo.com’“ When I click OK it closes the game.

I’ve tried many different addresses. All fail.

I haven’t found any other Play Anywhere cartridges to see if they give the same problem.

Can someone help resolve this?

I ran into exactly that a few days ago with some in Georgia. I loaded the cartridges to my GPSr and they ran perfectly from wherever I happened to be.

 

I had some Pennsylvania Play anywhere cartridges that I was able to run in the emulator before GeoWoodstock earlier this year like http://coord.info/GC5J33V. You could use that one or the others in the area as a comparison.