Religious material in caches

[+Geognome57]

Just curious, but in regards to cache etiquette, what's the accepted thought on religious material

being placed in caches? I ask because I'm rather new at this and really do not know. So far my wife

and I have encountered at least three caches with religious tracts stuck in them (one was almost stuffed with them. I'm not a follower of any religion, and I grant that each has a right to his or her own beliefs, but is really an accepted practice in geocaching?

[+Gan Dalf]

I would treat the religous things you encounter in caches in the same way you do when someone on a street corner presents you with a similar item, pamphlet or artifact.

[+geocacher_coza]

religious material being placed in caches?

I see no problem with any religious items in caches. If you dont like don't take or read it. Just pass over it and carry on!

If makes a lot better swag that some stuff out there! Its child friendly, it cannot hurt you and it makes for some good reading sometimes!

[+Isonzo Karst]

It's an item of value to the person who left it. As such, it's swag. Many (most) of the items in a cache will not have much swag value to many (most) cachers. Religious tracts may actually have more swag value than much of what you're going to find.

 

You could print up a few FSM brochures to use in trade

 

http://www.venganza.org/materials/brochures

[bogleman]

As long as your skin didn't burn when you took them out of the cache you should be good to go

[+BlueDeuce]

Trade even, trade up, or don't trade at all.

[+dalls]

I don't see a problem with it.

[Dinoprophet]

Here's my answer:

 

Items are fine but pamphlets, especially not protected with a ziploc or the like, are trash, too similar to advertising and too likely to get mangled and wet and useless. Some people say they like to read the pamphlets; well, I like to drink beer, but that doesn't mean it belongs in a cache.

 

If you don't like it there, by all means remove it, but treat it like any other trade item, i.e. leave something in its place. Tracts are each worth the cost to print them, so evaluate accordingly.

 

Now some preemptive responses to upcoming posts:

 

- No, I would not care if I found a non-Christian or even Satanic item. In fact, I've collected quite a few items that would probably be considered pagan (dreamcatchers, prayer flags -- these are some highly-sought sig items)

 

- Perhaps no one will be converted by a trinket in a cache. If that's so, what is anyone afraid of?

[+Headhardhat]

I don't see a problem with religious items at all. They obviously have value to people. I have seen many different hand made items and store bought trinkets that are quite nice. My daughter has taken to trading one article to the next when found.

 

What I do not like though is the a gluttony of pamphlets. Those should be treated like advertising in my mind. If it is a book great but when it starts looking like a business advertisement it should not be allowed. I know that is a very grey line but it is my opinion.

 

-HHH

Edited August 2, 2008 by Headhardhat

[+Cherokee Bill]

religious material being placed in caches?

I see no problem with any religious items in caches. If you dont like don't take or read it. Just pass over it and carry on!

If makes a lot better swag that some stuff out there! Its child friendly, it cannot hurt you and it makes for some good reading sometimes!

 

There could have been no better answer than the one quoted here! If I put out a new cache, I should be able to put what I want in the cashe (child-friendly).

 

You should be glad someone thinks enough about you, to care about your sole!!!!!!!

I'll stop now

[+OzzieSan]

 

There could have been no better answer than the one quoted here! If I put out a new cache, I should be able to put what I want in the cashe (child-friendly).

 

You should be glad someone thinks enough about you, to care about your sole!!!!!!!

I'll stop now

 

And to play devils advocate, as the cache owner I would be able to remove items I do not want in my cache.

[+SCOUT 19D]

Trade even, trade up, or don't trade at all.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Let's keep it about caching without ulterior motives, good or bad.

[4wheelin_fool]

If you run across any tracts on Frisbeeterianism you can send them my way.

[mlbcard]

I don't see a problem with religious items at all. They obviously have value to people. I have seen many different hand made items and store bought trinkets that are quite nice. My daughter has taken to trading one article to the next when found.

 

What I do not like though is the a gluttony of pamphlets. Those should be treated like advertising in my mind. If it is a book great but when it starts looking like a business advertisement it should not be allowed. I know that is a very grey line but it is my opinion.

 

-HHH

 

I agree with this, if it's religious artifacts... fine, it has value to some people, but what I wouldn't want to see is caches to become a tool for proselytizing.

Edited August 2, 2008 by mlbcard

[+FunnyNose]

You should be glad someone thinks enough about you, to care about your sole!!!!!!!

I'll stop now

 

Save your sole

[+OzzieSan]

You should be glad someone thinks enough about you, to care about your sole!!!!!!!

I'll stop now

 

Save your sole

 

Sole Saver

[+Kare429]

I would treat the religous things you encounter in caches in the same way you do when someone on a street corner presents you with a similar item, pamphlet or artifact.

 

I just can't see myself standing in the woods, yelling at the cache, "Get away from me, you religious freak!"

[+Vater_Araignee]

As long as it is not a government (u.s.a.) sponsored cache then it is not a major issue.

As long as the volume of tracts are not bordering or exceeding the advertisement line then it is not a minor issue.

 

Inform the CO and let them decide or trade up.

[+briansnat]

I've seen a few in caches and leave them, unless they are Chick Tracts. Those I collect because they are hilarious.

[+with.a.twist]

I guess if you really don't like them and you want them out of a cache; you could put a little roll of toilet paper in the cache... then take them and use them as an even trade?

 

Just a thought. Or you could read them and spend a little time praying.

[+WebChimp]

If you run across any tracts on Frisbeeterianism you can send them my way.

 

Frisbeetarianism? Are those the ones who think that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and can't get down?

[+Clarkbowman]

religious items are better then some of the crap I have seen in this area that are called trade items.

[+Knight2000]

Maybe it will teach us a valuable lesson.

[+Harry Dolphin]

We had actually considered putting nano on the bench in front of the bank where my friend Jesus (pronounced "heh-SOOS" does his banking, and calling it "Jesús Saves". But, we decided that outisde of the bad pun, it would have no redeeming value.

[+wimseyguy]

Occasionally I will trade one of my NC Sweet Potato Tracts for a religious tract when I find them in a cache. They are tasty, nutritious, and the official state vegetable.

[SillyDingo]

Just curious, but in regards to cache etiquette, what's the accepted thought on religious material

being placed in caches? I ask because I'm rather new at this and really do not know. So far my wife

and I have encountered at least three caches with religious tracts stuck in them (one was almost stuffed with them. I'm not a follower of any religion, and I grant that each has a right to his or her own beliefs, but is really an accepted practice in geocaching?

 

It also may depend on the location of the cache. Most public local and state parks prohibit caches with religious materials in them. So if you had an issue you could just bring it to the parks attention, if it is located in a park.

[AZcachemeister]

It's an item of value to the person who left it. As such, it's swag. Many (most) of the items in a cache will not have much swag value to many (most) cachers. Religious tracts may actually have more swag value than much of what you're going to find.

 

You could print up a few FSM brochures to use in trade

 

http://www.venganza.org/materials/brochures

 

See above!

 

In reply to the OP:

They don't bother me. I can ignore them just as effectively as I ignore those broken McToys, or the dog-eared baseball cards.

[+flask]

i resent material intended for proselytization. i'm in favor of items left as a signature, because the person who left them intends them to represent themselves.

 

there's kind of a big grey area between those two.

 

i often leave copies of my cds. one is secular, and one is sacred. you're completely welcome to ignore either.

[4wheelin_fool]

If you run across any tracts on Frisbeeterianism you can send them my way.

 

Frisbeetarianism? Are those the ones who think that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and can't get down?

Yes. A few followers informed me that if I joined, I would be able to eventually meet George Carlin..

[+Team Pantano]

It's an item of value to the person who left it. As such, it's swag. Many (most) of the items in a cache will not have much swag value to many (most) cachers. Religious tracts may actually have more swag value than much of what you're going to find.

 

You could print up a few FSM brochures to use in trade

 

http://www.venganza.org/materials/brochures

 

I have left FSM swag in caches - pairs of googly eyes.

 

May He touch you with His Noodley Appendage

[+Zop]

Just curious, but in regards to cache etiquette, what's the accepted thought on religious material

being placed in caches? I ask because I'm rather new at this and really do not know. So far my wife

and I have encountered at least three caches with religious tracts stuck in them (one was almost stuffed with them. I'm not a follower of any religion, and I grant that each has a right to his or her own beliefs, but is really an accepted practice in geocaching?

 

I CITO them.

 

Especially if they are cluttering up a micro. These tracts are pushing a social agenda and unless I am very mistaken, social agendas are frowned upon.

[+CrippledBlindSquirrel]

If you run across any tracts on Frisbeeterianism you can send them my way.

 

Frisbeetarianism? Are those the ones who think that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and can't get down?

Yes. A few followers informed me that if I joined, I would be able to eventually meet George Carlin..

 

It must be pretty warm on the roof where old George - I can't say two words together without cussing - Carlin is hanging out...

[+flask]

If you run across any tracts on Frisbeeterianism you can send them my way.

 

Frisbeetarianism? Are those the ones who think that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and can't get down?

Yes. A few followers informed me that if I joined, I would be able to eventually meet George Carlin..

 

It must be pretty warm on the roof where old George - I can't say two words together without cussing - Carlin is hanging out...

 

george carlin was a genius both with language and social commentary. to reduce his entire body of work to a few words is unfair and for you to presume the temperature of that roof wherever he's landed only makes you look very small by comparison.

[+CrippledBlindSquirrel]

If you run across any tracts on Frisbeeterianism you can send them my way.

 

Frisbeetarianism? Are those the ones who think that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and can't get down?

Yes. A few followers informed me that if I joined, I would be able to eventually meet George Carlin..

 

It must be pretty warm on the roof where old George - I can't say two words together without cussing - Carlin is hanging out...

 

george carlin was a genius both with language and social commentary. to reduce his entire body of work to a few words is unfair and for you to presume the temperature of that roof wherever he's landed only makes you look very small by comparison.

 

Okay...You liked George Carlin...Can I assume that you are a Frisbeetarian as well? Its 90 degrees in shade here to today...all of the roofs around here are hot...Didn't mean to spike your BP

[+flask]

 

Okay...You liked George Carlin...Can I assume that you are a Frisbeetarian as well? Its 90 degrees in shade here to today...all of the roofs around here are hot...Didn't mean to spike your BP

 

i loved george carlin. he was one of the great comic geniuses of the world and a thoughtful, thought-provoking man, to boot. if you had gotten farther in his work than some salty language, you might understand.

 

i am not a frisbeetarian.

 

if you really didn't want to spike anyone's BP, you might try not rolling your eyes. not rolling one's eyes is very popular these days in conversations between grownups. maybe you can aspire to it.

[+CrippledBlindSquirrel]

 

Okay...You liked George Carlin...Can I assume that you are a Frisbeetarian as well? Its 90 degrees in shade here to today...all of the roofs around here are hot...Didn't mean to spike your BP

 

i loved george carlin. he was one of the great comic geniuses of the world and a thoughtful, thought-provoking man, to boot. if you had gotten farther in his work than some salty language, you might understand.

 

i am not a frisbeetarian.

 

if you really didn't want to spike anyone's BP, you might try not rolling your eyes. not rolling one's eyes is very popular these days in conversations between grownups. maybe you can aspire to it.

 

I do not think that many thoughtful, educated and mature adults would agree that anyone who spent his life spewing forth profane language and insulting whole groups and classes of people was either thought provoking or a genius. Mr. Carlin made his living by feeding the prejudices and hatred of one group or another at the expense of someone else. It worked for him – and evidently for you. That’s fine – have a good time with it.

 

Now, is there better reaction to someone who has obviously drunk the Kool-Aide on a subject than rolling your eyes and shrugging your shoulders? I don’t think so…to do anything else would be like pouring water on a rock…none of it would soak in so why bother. You will, no doubt, read what you want into this, my final post on this subject, and continue to be angry and insulted that some of the rest of the world might not feel the way you do. That sir, is beyond my control. Have a wonderful rest of your life.

[+flask]

 

Okay...You liked George Carlin...Can I assume that you are a Frisbeetarian as well? Its 90 degrees in shade here to today...all of the roofs around here are hot...Didn't mean to spike your BP

 

i loved george carlin. he was one of the great comic geniuses of the world and a thoughtful, thought-provoking man, to boot. if you had gotten farther in his work than some salty language, you might understand.

 

i am not a frisbeetarian.

 

if you really didn't want to spike anyone's BP, you might try not rolling your eyes. not rolling one's eyes is very popular these days in conversations between grownups. maybe you can aspire to it.

 

I do not think that many thoughtful, educated and mature adults would agree that anyone who spent his life spewing forth profane language and insulting whole groups and classes of people was either thought provoking or a genius. Mr. Carlin made his living by feeding the prejudices and hatred of one group or another at the expense of someone else. It worked for him – and evidently for you. That’s fine – have a good time with it.

 

Now, is there better reaction to someone who has obviously drunk the Kool-Aide on a subject than rolling your eyes and shrugging your shoulders? I don’t think so…to do anything else would be like pouring water on a rock…none of it would soak in so why bother. You will, no doubt, read what you want into this, my final post on this subject, and continue to be angry and insulted that some of the rest of the world might not feel the way you do. That sir, is beyond my control. Have a wonderful rest of your life.

 

sarcasm sooooo suits you. you neither wish me a good time nor a wonderful life. you mean no respect by calling me "sir".

 

george carlin fueled no prejudices nor classes of people; his work was specifically small "d" democratic. if you can get past some of the language you notice that he very much favored what brings us together over what drives us apart.

 

i am not surprised that you do not understand this, and i am not surprised that you resort to sarcasm and the defense of eye-rolling. it suits you very much to dismiss me entirely based on things you do not understand. it also suits you to make assumptions that are wrong and analogies that are false.

 

who spoon feeds you?

[+cachemandue]

Have you ever found a dollar bill in a cache? Did you take it. If so, better read it. There are religious references there....wooooooo.

[+flask]

Have you ever found a dollar bill in a cache? Did you take it. If so, better read it. There are religious references there....wooooooo.

 

and there shouldn't be. freedom of religion means freedom FROM religion. government agencies have no business promoting any god.

 

unfortunately, there are few practical alternatives to using the coin of the realm.

 

happily a geocache is not a government agency and cachers while perhaps government agents are (i hope) caching as private citizens and are therefore free to promote religious items as they wish.

 

geocaching .com is opposed to social agendas at caches, which is (i think) a sensible policy.

 

so. religious item as signature, representing you and your visit? sure.

 

religious item meant to pressure or prosyletize? not on your life.

 

there's still a big grey area.

Edited August 3, 2008 by flask

[Motorcycle_Mama]

The guidelines prohibit caches that solicit or have an agenda. Swag with an agenda placed in caches is not covered by the guidelines.

Edited August 3, 2008 by Motorcycle_Mama

[+flask]

The guidelines prohibit caches that solicit or have an agenda. Swag with an agenda placed in caches is not covered by the guidelines.

 

true enough. people do seem to feel comfortable trashing it out, though.

[+WeeWillie]

If a religious item is an expression of the cacher's personal belief I don't have a problem. If a religious item attacks another religion I remove it. I have encountered anti-Catholic and anti-Semetic tracts.

 

The 1st Ammendment does not proctect you FROM religion. The wall of separation between church and state is begining to crumble because of the absolutism of Progressive organizations is wearing thin.

Edited August 4, 2008 by WeeWillie

[Mushtang]

i loved george carlin. he was one of the great comic geniuses of the world and a thoughtful, thought-provoking man, to boot. if you had gotten farther in his work than some salty language, you might understand.

George Carlin is seriously over rated. He was a very funny man, and very intelligent, but he wasn't the God that all the band wagoners have made him out to be after he died.

 

Religious material in caches, to me, isn't a bad thing because of the religion, but the paper tracts that are sometimes left can just become a nasty mess. I'll CITO any nasty mess I find no matter what the original paper said on it. If someone leaves a cross, a rosary, or any other religious item that doesn't become a mess I'm fine with it.

 

Of course I ignore all trade items anyway - but even if I were looking for something to take I wouldn't allow myself to get offended at something like that. If I didn't want it, I'd just forget it and look for something else.

[+hikemeister]

Have you ever found a dollar bill in a cache? Did you take it. If so, better read it. There are religious references there....wooooooo.

 

geocaching .com is opposed to social agendas at caches, which is (i think) a sensible policy.

 

 

Interesting general concept, but is it always followed. Last week I found a 'Christ Centered Geocaching' coin in one of our caches and it was trackable on GC.com. Someone must have approved it. The coin clearly indicated that there was a straight and narrow path to heaven. Fortunately I had just enough time to log it before some athiest cacher stole it from me.

[+The Hornet]

Sounds horribly like a Christian (presumably) religious agenda to me. I know Agendas are frowned upon by Groundspeak.

 

However, if the cache owner is happy for me to replace their preferred tracts with some promoting, say, Islam or perhaps Humanism or maybe Atheism then I'm happy that they can stock the cache with their preferred agenda.

 

It's called freedom of speech, something I believe you hold dear over there.

[+ZSandmann]

Just remember no one can offend you, you have to choose to be offended. A piece of paper does not offend me. A person sitting beside the cache yelling at me might. I've found tracts and fake 1 million dollar bills, etc. I leave them be unless they are deteriorated and messing up the cache.

[+tozainamboku]

I have encountered anti-Catholic and anti-Semetic tracts.

Those would be Chick Tracts, which some people prize as highly collectible since they are so overboard as to be funny.

 

It's called freedom of speech, something I believe you hold dear over there.

Thats because some the "colonies" as you call them were founded by Puritans fleeing persecution by the Church of England. I know this is true because I read about it in a Chick Tract.

[+Castle Mischief]

George Carlin is seriously over rated.

 

That's it. You're dead to me. Neil and the boys called and they said they want their album cover back.

 

I'm not a big fan of organized religion myself. If asked, in private, I'll go on all day on my opinion. However, this is my hobby and I'm not going to get all bent out of shape over what I find in a cache. My personal feeling is that it has no place in the cache. I understand that others don't agree. So I take it out and replace it with something else. Trade up or trade even.

 

If it's my cache, I just take it out. I've made an exception to some adopted caches because of the convictions of the cacher that placed the cache.

 

Or in the words of a man wiser than myself, "quietly resist."

[+UncleJimbo]

You should be glad someone thinks enough about you, to care about your sole!!!!!!!

Someone cares about my feet?!?

[Mushtang]

Have you ever found a dollar bill in a cache? Did you take it. If so, better read it. There are religious references there....wooooooo.

 

geocaching .com is opposed to social agendas at caches, which is (i think) a sensible policy.

 

 

Interesting general concept, but is it always followed. Last week I found a 'Christ Centered Geocaching' coin in one of our caches and it was trackable on GC.com. Someone must have approved it. The coin clearly indicated that there was a straight and narrow path to heaven. Fortunately I had just enough time to log it before some athiest cacher stole it from me.

As has been stated previously in this thread, the agenda opposition is only for caches, and not for cache contents left as trade items. It also doesn't apply to Travel Bugs, Coins, or any trackable item.

 

Sounds horribly like a Christian (presumably) religious agenda to me. I know Agendas are frowned upon by Groundspeak.

 

However, if the cache owner is happy for me to replace their preferred tracts with some promoting, say, Islam or perhaps Humanism or maybe Atheism then I'm happy that they can stock the cache with their preferred agenda.

 

It's called freedom of speech, something I believe you hold dear over there.

Freedom of speech only exists to keep the government from creating laws to keep citizens from speaking out against something. We're free to bad mouth the President all day long without fear that we'll be arrested, but freedom of speech doesn't do anything to protect what you want to put into my cache. And it doesn't give anyone the right to say whatever they want to me without expecting a reply.

 

If a person comes up and insults my mother, they can't claim freedom of speech and expect me to just let them keep talking. That's not at all how it works.