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nashuan

2008 Dragonfly

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I just checked the AEToys website and found the following message:

 

 

. ~~SNIP~~

Any orders for the Pirate geocoins we have been told they left China and we hope to be shipping them very soon. We will honor all orders for the Dragonfly geocoins with refunds or shipping them soon as we receive them.

 

 

Team AEToys!

 

Well let's hope for once they are telling the truth and will honor the refund requests that they have ignored in the past.

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I just checked the AEToys website and found the following message:

 

 

. ~~SNIP~~

Any orders for the Pirate geocoins we have been told they left China and we hope to be shipping them very soon. We will honor all orders for the Dragonfly geocoins with refunds or shipping them soon as we receive them.

 

 

Team AEToys!

 

Well let's hope for once they are telling the truth and will honor the refund requests that they have ignored in the past.

 

My guess would be that if they actually do get the coins they will ship them out rather than issuing refunds. It would be cheaper for them. I hope that I am wrong and those that want a refund get one.

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"Due to the economy and a few issues we have had on our geocoins we are closing until further notice. We hope to reopen in the next few months. Our Nanos will be back instock and we will offer them on our ebay store. We love geocaching and our store but hard times have forced us to back off for a short time. Thank you to all that have supported us, we look forward to working with you again. Have a happy holiday season. All orders placed for stock items will be shipped in the next day or two. Any orders for the Pirate geocoins we have been told they left China and we hope to be shipping them very soon. Orders for the Dragonfly geocoins we hope to be shipping them soon as well"

 

This was taken from their "contact us" page. It says NOTHING about any refunds! Once again they managed to update the page without saying anything of substance. I thought the Pirate coins had already shipped and would be sent out last week?

 

Unbelievable and Very Sad

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Well I've emailed them through their crappy store and got no replies either. I want my money back!

 

Well want doesn't always get :D , you will be lucky if you see the coins you ordered. Since they updated their website from 'getting coins or refunds' to 'getting coins' I imagine they were inundated with email requests for refunds. Isn't there a separate thread for updates on coins not received ?

 

Sad to see yet another vendor bite the dust, let this be a salient lesson to anyone considering going into 'business' as a coin vendor, to be in 'business' you need a particular set of skills, regardless of what your business is, if you don't possess those skills - it is never going to work out in the long term.

 

To all those vendors who have dug themselves into a hole - I hope you have learned a lesson from the experience, I also hope it doesn't get repeated - but as they say a fool and his money are soon parted, that goes for buyers as well as vendors :D

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You can add me to the list of punters who have paid for Dragonfly and Pirate coins :blink:

 

Best grab the activation code for any coin you haven't activated from A&E whilst the site is still there....

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UPDATE:

 

I just called Paypal and was told that AEToys did not even respond to Paypal's email that I had filed a chargeback. I told him that it should tell Paypal something when this company is ignoring Paypal's emails too. PayPal has notified my credit card company that AEToys has not provided them with any evidence to dispute my chageback claim. The only evidence a Seller can provide would have been "proof of shipment" and we all know that they can't provide that :blink:

 

Anyhow, I was telling the Paypal customer service rep that it seemed unfair that I am getting my money back because I used a credit card but people who used a debit or existing funds in their Paypal account, can't get their money back after 45 days. He told me that EVERYONE who lost money in this deal NEEDS TO FILE A PAYPAL COMPLAINT. He said that the complaints will automatically close because it has been more than 45 days. He said that Paypal still sees ALL of the complaints and they start to watch the company in question for the next 180 days. He said that if there are several complaints for that company, they will start an investigation. If an investgation shows that the company has acted wrongly, Paypal can choose to order refunds to ALL parties who filed complaints INCLUDING those who used existing funds and/or debit, even after 45 days. He said companies cannot keep delaying shipment as a means to avoid the 45 day complaint limit. In your complaint you may want to mention that they keep extending the delivery date. I hope this information helps. ~Karen

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I haven't filed a complaint yet but would like to do so. I don't have specific records on this laptop as this happened quite some time ago and the records which I kept are in our computer being shipped...

I will file a complaint when that computer is up and running, is there a date (after the 45 days) that I need to do this by?

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I haven't filed a complaint yet but would like to do so. I don't have specific records on this laptop as this happened quite some time ago and the records which I kept are in our computer being shipped...

I will file a complaint when that computer is up and running, is there a date (after the 45 days) that I need to do this by?

 

Sending you an email through your profile ~Karen

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UPDATE:

 

I just called Paypal and was told that AEToys did not even respond to Paypal's email that I had filed a chargeback. I told him that it should tell Paypal something when this company is ignoring Paypal's emails too. PayPal has notified my credit card company that AEToys has not provided them with any evidence to dispute my chageback claim. The only evidence a Seller can provide would have been "proof of shipment" and we all know that they can't provide that <_<

 

Anyhow, I was telling the Paypal customer service rep that it seemed unfair that I am getting my money back because I used a credit card but people who used a debit or existing funds in their Paypal account, can't get their money back after 45 days. He told me that EVERYONE who lost money in this deal NEEDS TO FILE A PAYPAL COMPLAINT. He said that the complaints will automatically close because it has been more than 45 days. He said that Paypal still sees ALL of the complaints and they start to watch the company in question for the next 180 days. He said that if there are several complaints for that company, they will start an investigation. If an investgation shows that the company has acted wrongly, Paypal can choose to order refunds to ALL parties who filed complaints INCLUDING those who used existing funds and/or debit, even after 45 days. He said companies cannot keep delaying shipment as a means to avoid the 45 day complaint limit. In your complaint you may want to mention that they keep extending the delivery date. I hope this information helps. ~Karen

 

Thanks for watching out for us "Trusting Souls" that used existing funds to pay for these coins! However, if I were planning on embezzling a bunch of people (whether premeditated or not), I certainly wouldn't leave any funds in my PayPal account for them to access.

I'm afraid that my money is gone! Although this experience has taught me a valuable lesson, I'm kinda sad to see the cynic it has turned me into.

I guess we're "not in Kansas anymore"

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I haven't filed a complaint yet but would like to do so. I don't have specific records on this laptop as this happened quite some time ago and the records which I kept are in our computer being shipped...

I will file a complaint when that computer is up and running, is there a date (after the 45 days) that I need to do this by?

 

Sending you an email through your profile ~Karen

 

Just realized in order to order coins in Australia using paypal, I had to close my Canadian account and open an Australian account so there is no way for me to access records back that far <_< until I have my computer. Even then, I don't have an account. :mad:

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I haven't filed a complaint yet but would like to do so. I don't have specific records on this laptop as this happened quite some time ago and the records which I kept are in our computer being shipped...

I will file a complaint when that computer is up and running, is there a date (after the 45 days) that I need to do this by?

 

Sending you an email through your profile ~Karen

 

Just realized in order to order coins in Australia using paypal, I had to close my Canadian account and open an Australian account so there is no way for me to access records back that far <_< until I have my computer. Even then, I don't have an account. :mad:

Not quite sure why you needed to do that ? Paypal allows me to have up to 32 different currencies and I can transfer money between them all in the same account. Unfortunately there are several folk in America who think they need to charge me an additional 7.5% because I am ordering from the UK - when in fact I use my US dollar account for the purchase and they do not incurr any extra fees. As long as you can remember your login and password you should be able to look at your paypal history, if you can only remember your login I am sure there would be a way to retrieve your password, changes to email addresses could be a problem - so you could try contacting their support desk. Hope you get a result.

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UPDATE:

 

I just called Paypal and was told that AEToys did not even respond to Paypal's email that I had filed a chargeback. I told him that it should tell Paypal something when this company is ignoring Paypal's emails too. PayPal has notified my credit card company that AEToys has not provided them with any evidence to dispute my chageback claim. The only evidence a Seller can provide would have been "proof of shipment" and we all know that they can't provide that <_<

 

Anyhow, I was telling the Paypal customer service rep that it seemed unfair that I am getting my money back because I used a credit card but people who used a debit or existing funds in their Paypal account, can't get their money back after 45 days. He told me that EVERYONE who lost money in this deal NEEDS TO FILE A PAYPAL COMPLAINT. He said that the complaints will automatically close because it has been more than 45 days. He said that Paypal still sees ALL of the complaints and they start to watch the company in question for the next 180 days. He said that if there are several complaints for that company, they will start an investigation. If an investgation shows that the company has acted wrongly, Paypal can choose to order refunds to ALL parties who filed complaints INCLUDING those who used existing funds and/or debit, even after 45 days. He said companies cannot keep delaying shipment as a means to avoid the 45 day complaint limit. In your complaint you may want to mention that they keep extending the delivery date. I hope this information helps. ~Karen

 

Thanks for watching out for us "Trusting Souls" that used existing funds to pay for these coins! However, if I were planning on embezzling a bunch of people (whether premeditated or not), I certainly wouldn't leave any funds in my PayPal account for them to access.

I'm afraid that my money is gone! Although this experience has taught me a valuable lesson, I'm kinda sad to see the cynic it has turned me into.

I guess we're "not in Kansas anymore"

 

I will have to call Paypal and ask for clarity on how things are handled if the Seller empties their account balance. I know with a credit card, I get it back from Paypal and then Paypal gets it from the vendor. If the vendor does not have money Paypal has to deal with that. The first time I talked to Paypal a few weeks ago, I was told that they have a team of lawyers who take sellers to court everyday for these kind of issues. If they clear their account and can't reimburse Paypal for refunds it issues, I would imagine that Paypal will sue them for their funds back. ~Karen

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Guess I am not the only one that did not receive my coins. Hopefully they will show up some day. But as of right now it looks like I am out $55.05.

 

Date Of Order: 5/27/2008 9:15:00 PM

Dragonfly 2008 Five coin set including the LE

(Qty: 1 x $49.75)

Subtotal: $49.75

Tax: $0.00

S&H: $5.30

Final Total: $55.05

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Guess I am not the only one that did not receive my coins. Hopefully they will show up some day. But as of right now it looks like I am out $55.05.

 

Date Of Order: 5/27/2008 9:15:00 PM

Dragonfly 2008 Five coin set including the LE

(Qty: 1 x $49.75)

Subtotal: $49.75

Tax: $0.00

S&H: $5.30

Final Total: $55.05

 

Ratandjmt, you need to make sure that you post this information in the vendor delay tracking thread in order to make sure that it is properly tracked.

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This is my order:

 

Order Information

Order Number: 5228

Order Date: 6/24/2008 12:38:00 AM

Order Status: Pending Pirate Treasure coin

 

Product Total $19.00

Shipping & Handling $3.51

Final Total $22.51

 

Today i call my money back via paypal

Edited by Schulz & Schulz

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Schulz & Schulz, I added you to the list in the thread linked in the post above yours.

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in this case, no news is not good news--haven't heard a thing, no coins in mail yet...I am still hopeful every time I get the mail though

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Add me to the list of people who are waiting on their dragonfly coins I guess we will all just have to wait and see.

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I know this may not matter much but I think of it as an unfortunate situation some fellow Cachers are in by circumstances that are out of their control. In short a nightmare. They weren't the only ones who have had difficulties with the mints. I had several others with delays on preorders. That's the chance you take with preorders.

 

I'm taking the attitude that they are fellow Cachers that got into coins and thought they were bringing more cool coins and other items to us other fellow Cachers whom found that it made for convenient shopping and appreciated their efforts. I still do.

 

Anyway that's my 2 cents worth as far as Allen & Elli's.

 

I hope I'm right and things work out for everyone and once again peace and harmony can be bestrode upon the geocoin world.

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I know this may not matter much but I think of it as an unfortunate situation some fellow Cachers are in by circumstances that are out of their control. In short a nightmare. They weren't the only ones who have had difficulties with the mints. I had several others with delays on preorders. That's the chance you take with preorders.

 

I'm taking the attitude that they are fellow Cachers that got into coins and thought they were bringing more cool coins and other items to us other fellow Cachers whom found that it made for convenient shopping and appreciated their efforts. I still do.

 

Anyway that's my 2 cents worth as far as Allen & Elli's.

 

I hope I'm right and things work out for everyone and once again peace and harmony can be bestrode upon the geocoin world.

 

I'm sorry that these folks have fallen on hard times. But when you take money for a product and don't deliver the product, it is stealing, pure and simple.

 

Some of these people paid for their coins in March of 2008! We are going on a year that they have taken on money for a coin that they have not delivered. If the mint can't produce the coin in that amount of time, then maybe it can't be done.

 

Or maybe the mint is not the issue....

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The point is this flatouts, If a fellow cacher were to ask me for help due to circumstances, I would probably be the first in line to help them out. These people however took without asking, used without permission, and then lied regarding their actions. In my book, none of that is excusable. Now that the facts are coming to light, they don't even have the guts to face the music and let us know truthfully what is going on.

 

If you paid for an item at a store, and was told it would be brought up to the counter for you, and then they said well, we couldn't find it but we will let you know when we find one and you can have it then, would you say OK and just walk away? I think not. You would be screaming for your money back, or for the item to be produced as promised. Tell me how this is any different than that!

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Folks, Eartha's using this thread to track delays. If you'd like to discuss the individual vendors (or the situation in general), could you take it to the discussion threads?

 

Here are two threads for the two vendors with the most complaints so far:

 

For discussion of A&E Toys (and specifically the 2008 Dragonfly), this thread

For discussion of Geocoin Design (and specifically the Titanic remint), this thread

 

You can start a new thread about delinquent threads, too, but please just post the specifics of your coin delays in this one, per the format & instructions that Eartha put out in the opening post. That way, the thread is kept clean for Eartha and makes it easier for her to track problems. Thanks!

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Holy Crap people! I can't believe this has been going on so long and you guys are putting up with it. I mean sure I can see issues with coins coming up and have a delay but never and i mean I would NEVER wait more then 3months on a coin and that would be pushing it very far, 2 months should be the max. And this has been almost a year!?!?!?! *blink*

 

If anyone receives a coin I might just have a heart attack after reading over most of these posts!

 

Im very interested in finding out what going on now and i havent even put a dime into these coins. Makes me sick that somone could cause this kind of upset to the geocoin community.

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I am sorry for all this mess. We will honor all orders for this coin. Like so many families and business this past year have hit some tough times. I could go into a long list but none of that matters. The bottom line is the need to take care of these orders. The Pirate coins will start shipping this week. As for the Dragonfly coins we have been issuing refunds starting with the oldest ones we have requests for but due to our hard times they have not been coming as fast as they should. I will have every one of these orders taken care of no later than the middle of February. I know that may not be good enough for some but it is the best we can do under the circumstances. I am going to get our store back up this week and anyone wishing store credit for there orders may do so just note the order with the coin order number that you have pending. We love geocaching and our store and we are doing everything we can to get things right. I am deeply sorry for all this and hope you can see it in your hearts to forgive us and at least give us this one last chance to correct this.

 

Mark

Alan and Elli’s

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I am sorry for all this mess. We will honor all orders for this coin. Like so many families and business this past year have hit some tough times. I could go into a long list but none of that matters. The bottom line is the need to take care of these orders. The Pirate coins will start shipping this week. As for the Dragonfly coins we have been issuing refunds starting with the oldest ones we have requests for but due to our hard times they have not been coming as fast as they should. I will have every one of these orders taken care of no later than the middle of February. I know that may not be good enough for some but it is the best we can do under the circumstances. I am going to get our store back up this week and anyone wishing store credit for there orders may do so just note the order with the coin order number that you have pending. We love geocaching and our store and we are doing everything we can to get things right. I am deeply sorry for all this and hope you can see it in your hearts to forgive us and at least give us this one last chance to correct this.

 

Mark

Alan and Elli's

 

 

 

you'll not be getting any sympathy from over here....

 

 

I read 'blah,blah,blah blah....'

 

communication is(or should I say was) the key to folks understanding what was going on here. When you broke down the line of communication, you dug your own grave, I don't see A&E toys getting back off the ground as a reputable coin vendor. I know I won't be foolish enough to ever deal with you again.

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I am sorry for all this mess. We will honor all orders for this coin. Like so many families and business this past year have hit some tough times. I could go into a long list but none of that matters. The bottom line is the need to take care of these orders. The Pirate coins will start shipping this week. As for the Dragonfly coins we have been issuing refunds starting with the oldest ones we have requests for but due to our hard times they have not been coming as fast as they should. I will have every one of these orders taken care of no later than the middle of February. I know that may not be good enough for some but it is the best we can do under the circumstances. I am going to get our store back up this week and anyone wishing store credit for there orders may do so just note the order with the coin order number that you have pending. We love geocaching and our store and we are doing everything we can to get things right. I am deeply sorry for all this and hope you can see it in your hearts to forgive us and at least give us this one last chance to correct this.

 

Mark

Alan and Elli’s

 

I asked for a refund and I am one of the oldest orders. I have yet to receive that refund or a reply to my emails. Sorry to be a hard a** but this money was not yours to spend on your hard times regardless of what they were. What you've done is very dishonest and fraudulant. You really should not open back up your store until every single outstanding order has been shipped or refunded. I honestly wouldn't be able to live with myself if I had cheated so many people like you have.

 

Now, please refund my money!!!!!

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:lol:

I am sorry for all this mess. We will honor all orders for this coin. Like so many families and business this past year have hit some tough times. I could go into a long list but none of that matters. The bottom line is the need to take care of these orders. The Pirate coins will start shipping this week. As for the Dragonfly coins we have been issuing refunds starting with the oldest ones we have requests for but due to our hard times they have not been coming as fast as they should. I will have every one of these orders taken care of no later than the middle of February. I know that may not be good enough for some but it is the best we can do under the circumstances. I am going to get our store back up this week and anyone wishing store credit for there orders may do so just note the order with the coin order number that you have pending. We love geocaching and our store and we are doing everything we can to get things right. I am deeply sorry for all this and hope you can see it in your hearts to forgive us and at least give us this one last chance to correct this.

 

Mark

Alan and Elli’s

 

I asked for a refund and I am one of the oldest orders. I have yet to receive that refund or a reply to my emails. Sorry to be a hard a** but this money was not yours to spend on your hard times regardless of what they were. What you've done is very dishonest and fraudulant. You really should not open back up your store until every single outstanding order has been shipped or refunded. I honestly wouldn't be able to live with myself if I had cheated so many people like you have.

 

Now, please refund my money!!!!!

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I am sorry for all this mess. We will honor all orders for this coin. Like so many families and business this past year have hit some tough times. <snip>

 

Howdy --

 

I'm not a customer (yet) but I have a couple of questions:

 

1) Did you take money during a pre-sale?

2) If yes, what precisely did you do with the money you collected?

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Well.. well.. well... some news from AEToys.....lucky us :lol:

 

I would like to say I agree with AtlantaGal, what you did was dishonest and fraudulant, but more than that it was CRIMINAL!!!! If you expected us to be understanding, you should have at least given us something to understand. I am sure you could have given us the TRUTH about your situation without giving us the blow-by-blow details. Instead you just stole money, spent it on whatever you felt like, posted BS updates on your website and then ignored emails sent to you concerning our money and/or merchandise.

 

Well I am lucky that I received my credit card statement the other day and my funds have been credited back to my account. I wish everyone you stole money from had been able to get the same results. I am amazed that when Paypal sent you an email of my chargeback claim, that you even ignored their email. You can't just stick your head in the sand, ignore your customers and think that they will just disappear.

 

You may love geocaching and love your store, but if you loved your fellow geocachers you would not have stolen our money and used it for your personal needs. One more thing, have you given ANY thought as to how your actions have ruined "presales" for the other honest vendors???

 

~Karen

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I received a letter a few days ago from The Better Business Bureau. It basically said that their attempts to contact AEToys regarding my filed complaint was ignored completely by AEToys. If you are truly trying to "get things right" and honestly feel bad about what has happened and you "love" your store then why would you ignore inquiry from The BBB?

 

That doesn't seem like doing "everything" you can to make things right. :lol:

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Folks, Eartha's using this thread to track delays. If you'd like to discuss the individual vendors (or the situation in general), could you take it to the discussion threads?

 

Here are two threads for the two vendors with the most complaints so far:

 

For discussion of A&E Toys (and specifically the 2008 Dragonfly), this thread

For discussion of Geocoin Design (and specifically the Titanic remint), this thread

 

You can start a new thread about delinquent threads, too, but please just post the specifics of your coin delays in this one, per the format & instructions that Eartha put out in the opening post. That way, the thread is kept clean for Eartha and makes it easier for her to track problems. Thanks!

 

Eartha is more than welcome to move or remove the above posts. But continuing to defend people who have robbed fellow cachers is one of the reasons that this continues. I think it would be wrong to let it stand with no response.

 

Again, this post, along with the ones above can and should be moved to the dragonfly thread.

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this has gotten too ugly, a mob mentality with "let's go find them" being expressed.

 

everyone makes mistakes. period. everyone. that includes those who have lost money here. are you pure with no mistakes that have cost others emotional distress? money?

 

let a&e try to straighten themselves out. they know they have erred. piling on more abuse is not going to get anything done.

 

if they don't make things right, then, move on. find something else to use your energy on. anger is bad for your heart! and it is simply not worth it.

 

you'all have done what you needed to do by contacting the various authorities. you have called them out in the forums. you have made their sins public.

 

if any of you have never made mistakes, then pile on, "get 'em," lynch them.

 

otherwise, how about just moving on. let the anger go and go caching!

 

as someone once said a long time ago, "turn the other cheek."

 

merry christmas folks

Edited by RedShoesGirl

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I received a letter a few days ago from The Better Business Bureau. It basically said that their attempts to contact AEToys regarding my filed complaint was ignored completely by AEToys. If you are truly trying to "get things right" and honestly feel bad about what has happened and you "love" your store then why would you ignore inquiry from The BBB?

 

That doesn't seem like doing "everything" you can to make things right. :lol:

 

I got this letter from the BBB in today's mail.

 

I also sent AEToys yet another request for refund after my posting above.

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I understand Lara's point of view posted above but in my opinion there is a big difference between a simple "mistake" and "embezzlement" Given they have embezzled thousands of dollars, this is no simple mistake. That's my 2 cents ~Karen

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Alot of people who make mistakes like this end up in jail.

 

This community has "turned the other cheek" time and time again. That is why a couple of people have been able to make these "big scores".

 

These people are not a lynch mob, and do not have a mob mentality. These people are working together to make a bad situation right. They are trying to get their hard earned money back. These people are discussing steps they need to take to try to assure that this doesn't happen again.

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I understand Lara's point of view posted above but in my opinion there is a big difference between a simple "mistake" and "embezzlement" Given they have embezzled thousands of dollars, this is no simple mistake. That's my 2 cents ~Karen

 

Although I agree that this is a BAD situation, you may want to look up the term "embezzlement" and then the term "libel".

 

Steve

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Alot of people who make mistakes like this end up in jail. ....................

 

.............or they file for bankruptcy which LEGALLY relieves them of all debt!

 

Steve

Edited by hitechman

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I understand Lara's point of view posted above but in my opinion there is a big difference between a simple "mistake" and "embezzlement" Given they have embezzled thousands of dollars, this is no simple mistake. That's my 2 cents ~Karen

 

Although I agree that this is a BAD situation, you may want to look up the term "embezzlement" and then the term "libel".

 

Steve

 

"Embezzlement: To appropriate fraudulenty to one's own use, as money or securities entrusted to one's care"

The money was given to them to have these coins made and delivered. They in turn fraudelently used the funds for their own use.

 

To be "libel" the statement has to be false or malicious, I don't consider it either.

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Ok. so let me try a word of sense here.

 

If you didn't buy Dragonfly 2008 coins, then quit hijacking the thread. This thread is not for the discussion of whether you like the grammar used in the posts, whether you like AEtoys or not, or whether or not you think the poor souls who had their money stolen should just put up and shut up. Go start your own off topic discussion.

 

How about we go back to discussing the 2008 Dragonfly coin order that's still missing after 1 year, through no fault of anyone but AEtoys? You expect that the response from the "clients" who don't have their merchadise yet is going to positive when a ton of holes can be found in the first response post from AEtoys in months? Not likely.

 

P.S. Yes I did order these coins, and yes I did receive a refund. Back in the summer sometime.

 

TMA

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As for the Dragonfly coins we have been issuing refunds starting with the oldest ones...

Does this mean that the 2008 Dragonfly coin will not be made at all? A question for the vendor.

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Well, Mr. Moop, I did purchase a set, and have not yet received them.

 

Do I believe that AEToys took my money with the knowledge that they never intended to deliver the product (fraud)? NOPE! Something happened, no idea what, but something happened. I am not going to speculate on what that was, because I may be wrong, and that makes me no better than them.

 

I just ordered a chair (special order) from a furniture company, and they wanted 50% down. Sort of like a preorder. They are basically promising me that they will construct a chair and deliver it too me. A lot can happen (especially in todays ecoomy) between the time I made my payment, and when my chair is actually delivered (I was told 8 weeks). If this company or a company that makes chair parts for them goes out of business in the meantime, I don't get a chair. Does the chair company put my $$ in a special account to be held until the chair is delivered? NOPE. They deposit it into their operating account to buy more parts and pay the help. Now if the chair company fails (bankrupt), I am out my money, and legally there is nothing I can do to get it back, except file a lien (and I'll be next to last on the list for reimbursement). I'll would probably never see a cent of that money.

 

Look at all the people who have gift cards for some of the businesses that went bankrupt. They are SOL. Were they notified by the company that the cards would not be honored? NOPE!

 

Is this right? NO, but it does happen. I'm not sticking up for AEToys. They are a small business and sold products that are close to all of our hearts. It would have been ethical of them to have kept us informed, but they are under no legal obligation to do so. There has definitely been a violation of trust, but I think fraud/embezzelment would be very difficult to prove because the intent is not there.

 

I believe that they had (and still have) the intent to do what they say--coins or refund. I have seen no guarantee as to a timeline. Will I do business with them in the future? Definitely not.

 

My intent was not to knock any posters personally, but we must all be careful of what we say, when we do not have all of the facts.

 

I'm chalking this one up to experience. I'm done posting to this thread, but will read, with interest, what others have to say.

 

Steve

 

PS.......Yup, the chair was on a Credit Card and so was my AEToys purchase (June1). My CC company will not do a charge back after 90 days...called and begged to no avail. Like I said......chalking this one up to experience. I also did file on the internet fraud website, and with the BBB. Have not heard back from the internet site (they state they will contact local law enforcement for action--appears that the local police have not, and probably will not, take any action).

Edited by hitechman

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Well, Mr. Moop, I did purchase a set, and have not yet received them.

 

Do I believe that AEToys took my money with the knowledge that they never intended to deliver the product (fraud)? NOPE! Something happened, no idea what, but something happened. I am not going to speculate on what that was, because I may be wrong, and that makes me no better than them.

 

I just ordered a chair (special order) from a furniture company, and they wanted 50% down. Sort of like a preorder. They are basically promising me that they will construct a chair and deliver it too me. A lot can happen (especially in todays ecoomy) between the time I made my payment, and when my chair is actually delivered (I was told 8 weeks). If this company or a company that makes chair parts for them goes out of business in the meantime, I don't get a chair. Does the chair company put my $$ in a special account to be held until the chair is delivered? NOPE. They deposit it into their operating account to buy more parts and pay the help. Now if the chair company fails (bankrupt), I am out my money, and legally there is nothing I can do to get it back, except file a lien (and I'll be next to last on the list for reimbursement). I'll would probably never see a cent of that money.

 

Look at all the people who have gift cards for some of the businesses that went bankrupt. They are SOL. Were they notified by the company that the cards would not be honored? NOPE!

 

Is this right? NO, but it does happen. I'm not sticking up for AEToys. They are a small business and sold products that are close to all of our hearts. It would have been ethical of them to have kept us informed, but they are under no legal obligation to do so. There has definitely been a violation of trust, but I think fraud/embezzelment would be very difficult to prove because the intent is not there.

 

I believe that they had (and still have) the intent to do what they say--coins or refund. I have seen no guarantee as to a timeline. Will I do business with them in the future? Definitely not.

 

My intent was not to knock any posters personally, but we must all be careful of what we say, when we do not have all of the facts.

 

I'm chalking this one up to experience. I'm done posting to this thread, but will read, with interest, what others have to say.

 

Steve

 

Just, BTW, if you put that deposit on a credit card, you do have some protection. They had a story on the news about that this morning! They said never pay a furniture deposit with a check or cash. Always use your credit card!

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~~snip:

 

Is this right? NO, but it does happen. I'm not sticking up for AEToys. They are a small business and sold products that are close to all of our hearts. It would have been ethical of them to have kept us informed, but they are under no legal obligation to do so. There has definitely been a violation of trust, but I think fraud/embezzelment would be very difficult to prove because the intent is not there. ~~

 

Under the Federal Trade Commission's website it says that if you sell merchandise that you must deliver the merchandise when stated or within 30 days if not stated. The original delivery date for these coins was in JUNE. It also states that you must notify your customers of ANY delays before the expected delivery date (June, in this case) and if the customer requests a refund, you must give them a timely refund. I read this a couple of months ago, but I believe the time given to issue a refund was 30 days. The FTC has rules to prevent companies from issuing delay after delay after delay, when it comes to delivering merchandise.

 

So I would say that they were legally obligated under the FTC rules to delivery, notify of delay and honor refund requests.

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Do I believe that AEToys took my money with the knowledge that they never intended to deliver the product (fraud)? NOPE! Something happened, no idea what, but something happened. I am not going to speculate on what that was, because I may be wrong, and that makes me no better than them.

 

I just ordered a chair (special order) from a furniture company, and they wanted 50% down. Sort of like a preorder. They are basically promising me that they will construct a chair and deliver it too me. A lot can happen (especially in todays ecoomy) between the time I made my payment, and when my chair is actually delivered (I was told 8 weeks). If this company or a company that makes chair parts for them goes out of business in the meantime, I don't get a chair. Does the chair company put my $$ in a special account to be held until the chair is delivered? NOPE. They deposit it into their operating account to buy more parts and pay the help. Now if the chair company fails (bankrupt), I am out my money, and legally there is nothing I can do to get it back, except file a lien (and I'll be next to last on the list for reimbursement). I'll would probably never see a cent of that money.

 

 

Steve

 

Well, unfortunately, the case here is nothing like your furniture store. See, they took money specifically for a geocoin to be made. Not for their phone bill, not for their staff of shipping experts, and not for their kids tuition. You've made a geocoin, and you know exactly what it takes. They took a small margin of "profit" I'm sure, but it's not enough to retire on. So the money should have ONLY gone for the Dragonfly 2008 minting and NOTHING else. Taking our money to fund anything else other than designing, minting, and shipping those coins to us is STEALING! Sorry, no way around it. The more people that want to condone this thievery just fuel the fire for the next burn out and crash. I'm sure it wasn't their fault all the money just vanished. :lol:

 

And like MustangJoni says, if you can't use a credit card to protect yourself, your bad. If I can't charge it, I don't buy it.

 

TMA

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Its strange that you would say this considering you became pretty hostile and acted the same way others are doing here in another thread about not getting Christmas gifts in the mail on time, lol.

 

This is blatant robbery of geocachers money. Anyone remember a cacher from Texas (she no longer caches)? Wow she robbed alot of folks, but then again she was sick, husband lost his lob, etc. Thats a good reason to keep everyones money right? She managed to do a big trip to Seattle soon afterwards for some sort of vacation.

 

this has gotten too ugly, a mob mentality with "let's go find them" being expressed.

 

everyone makes mistakes. period. everyone. that includes those who have lost money here. are you pure with no mistakes that have cost others emotional distress? money?

 

let a&e try to straighten themselves out. they know they have erred. piling on more abuse is not going to get anything done.

 

if they don't make things right, then, move on. find something else to use your energy on. anger is bad for your heart! and it is simply not worth it.

 

you'all have done what you needed to do by contacting the various authorities. you have called them out in the forums. you have made their sins public.

 

if any of you have never made mistakes, then pile on, "get 'em," lynch them.

 

otherwise, how about just moving on. let the anger go and go caching!

 

as someone once said a long time ago, "turn the other cheek."

 

merry christmas folks

Edited by Cav Scout

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