Military Posts and Caches

[steve638]

Placing caches on military post, should it be allowed or not allowed ?

 

I hope posting this doesn't get the caches removed because there are many excellent places to visit on our military post.

 

According to the guidelines you should not. You'll find this by following the link:

Caches near or on military installations.

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

 

I'm an active duty service member and personally don't have any problem with placing them on post, my personal opinion may not count though. Also here's some caches located on military post, I won't list to many in case people start reporting them to be removed.

Ft. Knox

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...9f-e34ea731dde9

Ft. Bragg

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?id=129482

In Iraq on a US military post

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...a4-5978edbfc232

 

Some review of the policy needs to be made. Many service members are geocachers and could be used to verify that caches are placed in good locations that won't get them in trouble.

 

I propose that a cache reviewer ask someone near the cache or visit the site themselves to verify that it is a good location if it is located on a post. Some of these may take longer to approve of course. Common sense and a through review of the placement of the cache will be needed requiring more time of our volunteers who do this, thank them for doing this and/or go with them.

 

If you agree with me please let ground speak know so some review of the policy can be made and let a comment here please. If you don't please write why or why not.

 

I'm all in favor of people visiting our post to show support or just to swing by and see some of the very historic sights we have to offer. Ie. Our museums, battle grounds and other places of interest.

[Neos2]

No need for a change in the guidelines--the exception clause is already there! You may have missed it, but there is also this wording in the guidelines

 

There may be some exceptions. If your cache fits within one of the above areas, please explain this in a note to the reviewer.

[+joranda]

I don't see any problems with them.

[+BlueDeuce]

Check with your local reviewer for clarification on guidelines.

[+Albin_Group]

I currently work on an air force base and I can think of at least 15 great cache locations right off the top of my head. I lived on the base for 6 years while my dad was active duty, and I know a lot of neat places I could hide a cache. But, I do understand that you can't hide a cache without permission from the land owner... right? I don't think I'm ready to approach the US Government to ask if I can hide boxes of stuff on their property. The paper work required would be mind boggling I'm sure!

[+Quiggle]

Check with your local reviewer for clarification on guidelines.

There's no clarification needed, the wording is clear in the guidelines:

 

"Caches may be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not inclusive)"

 

Note that statement is drastically different from:

 

"Caches will be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not inclusive)" which doesn't appear in the guidelines.

 

Caches on military bases are not technically allowed, but I know of at least one that was listed recently because the hider got permission from the commanding officer of the base! With verifiable permission, some of the more 'extreme' off-limits locations can have caches.

 

So, to the OP, if you want to hide one on a military base, have at it. It should be no problem provided appropriate permission can be obtained and verified (ie not from a member of the grounds crew )

[steve638]

Check with your local reviewer for clarification on guidelines.

There's no clarification needed, the wording is clear in the guidelines:

 

"Caches may be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not inclusive)"

 

Note that statement is drastically different from:

 

"Caches will be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not inclusive)" which doesn't appear in the guidelines.

 

Caches on military bases are not technically allowed, but I know of at least one that was listed recently because the hider got permission from the commanding officer of the base! With verifiable permission, some of the more 'extreme' off-limits locations can have caches.

 

So, to the OP, if you want to hide one on a military base, have at it. It should be no problem provided appropriate permission can be obtained and verified (ie not from a member of the grounds crew )

 

I'm an active duty soldier and will look into what it takes to place one on post. I don't know if I have to go all the way to the post commander but that would be interesting. Both me and my Troop Commander go caching and are interested in this topic as I tried to place one and it was shot down due to being placed on post and is in violation of placing on or near military post.

[+Renegade Knight]

The key problem is some of the past reactions that caches near military were involved in. Panic and Paranoia are not the fault of the cache, but the climate that caches are placed within.

 

With that in mind, I can tell you that I can think of some great locations for on base caches on the base that I used to frequent. However...you do have to do some extra leg work on the permission front to put a cache in those spots because of the issues.

[+steve p]

Aren't most (maybe all?) military bases off-limits to civilians? Can caches be listed for locations where most people can't access them?

[+DavidMac]

Aren't most (maybe all?) military bases off-limits to civilians? Can caches be listed for locations where most people can't access them?

 

All of the caches I've ever seen hidden on military property were in publicly accessible areas. Many bases cover thousands of acres, only a few of which may actually be secured. The rest of the land is still part of the base, but is not always off limits (every one is different). In fact, of all the caches I've found on military land, I've never had to cross a fence or pass through a gatehouse to reach it.

 

This still doesn't mean that you don't need permission. In fact, I've heard of several bases that require a permit for recreational use.

Edited December 7, 2007 by DavidMac

[+Renegade Knight]

Aren't most (maybe all?) military bases off-limits to civilians? Can caches be listed for locations where most people can't access them?

 

Yes they are off limits to generic civilians. But most civilians can sign up. They are not businesses charging an admission fee, they are not restricting access based on anything that's not allowed in the Civil Rights act etc. In other words they are a valid exception to the general rule that caches should be available to everone.

 

Most bases are also larger than the fenced off, no civilains allowed parts. They may or may not allow public access on the larger undeveloped lands.

Edited December 7, 2007 by Renegade Knight

[+steve p]

That makes sense. Thanks for the clarifications.

[+Firespinner]

I think in this day and age, putting cache's on military bases woudl be a huge problem. First and foremost, it could too easily be mistaken as a terrorist item (bomb, explosive....etc). Second is that civilians certainly have no business wandering around a military base. It's too risky to both them and for the military personnel who may mistake them for a threat. On the geocaching listing requirements it specificallly states that your cache might be archived if they discover that it is ...and then they give a long list, including the following text: " Caches near or on military installations. Caches near, on or under public structures deemed potential or possible targets for terrorist attacks. These may include but are not limited to highway bridges, dams, government buildings, elementary and secondary schools, and airports."

 

It seems like a bad situation waiting to happen in my opinion

Edited December 7, 2007 by Firespinner

[+Quiggle]

Aren't most (maybe all?) military bases off-limits to civilians? Can caches be listed for locations where most people can't access them?

Hydro caches are off-limits to people without a boat, but they're still listed all the time. A cache 150 feet up a tree isn't accessible to everyone, yet those are listed, too.

 

A cache doesn't have to be accessible to everyone to be listed on the site. Other than for event caches, there's nothing in the guidelines about caches being open to everyone.

[+Shop99er]

The last I heard, caches weren't allowed on military bases, period.

 

And yes, the general public is normally not allowed on military bases. I know this beyond doubt cuz I work on one. I am about half-way up the food chain, and I have to have 2 different badges to get on this base.

 

There are a few cachers that work here, but the possible finders would be pretty well done in about a month.

 

And, the local commander would not be allowed to allow one, anyway, due to security concerns.

 

I suspect that all of the above would be true just about anywhere in the US you would try. Have no clue about the rest of the world.

[+steve p]

Aren't most (maybe all?) military bases off-limits to civilians? Can caches be listed for locations where most people can't access them?

Hydro caches are off-limits to people without a boat, but they're still listed all the time. A cache 150 feet up a tree isn't accessible to everyone, yet those are listed, too.

 

A cache doesn't have to be accessible to everyone to be listed on the site. Other than for event caches, there's nothing in the guidelines about caches being open to everyone.

Your examples are different, and you should know it. Locations that are off-limits to some people are completely different from locations that are simply not reachable for some people.

 

I may not have a boat to reach a hydro cache, but there is nothing that says I am not allowed to go to the location.

[+O-Mega]

The last I heard, caches weren't allowed on military bases, period.

 

And yes, the general public is normally not allowed on military bases. I know this beyond doubt cuz I work on one. I am about half-way up the food chain, and I have to have 2 different badges to get on this base.

 

There are a few cachers that work here, but the possible finders would be pretty well done in about a month.

 

And, the local commander would not be allowed to allow one, anyway, due to security concerns.

 

I suspect that all of the above would be true just about anywhere in the US you would try. Have no clue about the rest of the world.

 

Actually I think the reverse is true. I also work in a badge only area that even most soldiers can't access. But the base is quite large, and the largest part is composed of training areas where the only requirement is to get an MWR pass to enter. Most of those areas are open to the civilian public for the purpose of hunting, fishing and other outdoor activities. So geocaching can fit right in with this use, and the Military Association of Geocachers (MAGC) works with MWRs to get geocaching programs started within military bases.

 

v/r

O-Mega

[+briansnat]

And yes, the general public is normally not allowed on military bases. I know this beyond doubt cuz I work on one. I am about half-way up the food chain, and I have to have 2 different badges to get on this base.

 

It all depends on the base. FT Dix (Army) in NJ allows the community to use its soccer fields and I've been to many soccer tournaments there alongside hundreds of civilians. You just show your ID to the guard and tell him you are going to the soccer fields. Sometimes they'll check your trunk and look inside the car but most of the time they just wave you through.

[+Jeep_Dog]

Second is that civilians certainly have no business wandering around a military base. It's too risky to both them and for the military personnel who may mistake them for a threat.

 

It seems like a bad situation waiting to happen in my opinion

 

Besides the excellent "official" explanations given by Quiggle, I would like to add that the above is not necessarily true. Many (if not most) installations have public areas such as museums, facitilities (pools, athletic fields, schools), and monuments where civilians are welcome. With proper vehicle registration, insurance and a valid ID, and explaining the purpose of the visit, civilians can get on many installations with these facilities.

 

One of the problems is getting permission. One range control officer may or may not have the authority to grant permission. Even securing the senior mission commander or installation commander's permission is sketchy - that's a two year (at most) command, and in the exchange of duties to a replacement, an allowed geocache probably will be forgotten.

[+LeoGeo]

 

Sometimes they'll check your trunk and look inside the car

 

Uh-oh. I can explain the GPSr, and I can explain the dozen ammo cans in the trunk, but I think they might get suspicious about the big sack of Happy Meal Toys.

[steve638]

Well after reading everyones responses I see I opened a can of worms! Thanks for all the good comments please keep them coming.

[+Wadcutter]

There are a lot of military installations that are open to the public. Museums that shouldn't be missed are the Patton Museum at Ft Knox, the Naval Aviation Museum at Pensacola NAS, the Infantry Museum at Ft Benning, and the USMC Museum at Quantico. I haven't been to the new USMC Museum at Quantico but visited the old one several times and it's well worth the visit. All are open to the public and all are located on military installations. You just ID yourself at the gate and tell them where you are going. There are caches hidden on base at the Patton Museum and a couple near the Naval Aviation Museum.

However, there are lots of places on military installations where the public is not permitted and wouldn't be appropriate for caches.

[+combatnurse2003]

Plenty of museums and historical areas can be marked on www.Waymarking.com. In today's poat-9/11 world, with each base having threatcon levels, it's ill advised to try to start hiding packages on base. Walking around with a GPS outside a G3 Operations shop is going to be difficult to explain to the MPs. Sure, if you want to try to get permission, I'm sure the CG/ commanding general will consider it; for about 5 seconds. Good luck with that.

 

Don't even get me started on the USAF pilot I verbally beat two years ago on posting a pic of his GPS, coordinates visible, on an airfield in Iraq. That's just stupid...

[+VWDave]

The one you listed for Fort Bragg IS NOT on military property. It is on Spring Lake NC land, for now

[steve638]

The one you listed for Fort Bragg IS NOT on military property. It is on Spring Lake NC land, for now

I was going by what I saw on google maps provided when you search. By the map it looks like on post, my bad.

[+Titansfan]

I have found the cache located at Ft. Knox just outside the Patton Museum. The museum is on the post, but visitors can access the museum without going through the MP's and contract security, thus cachers can get to the cache without any security problems. With that, I have waymarked the museum.

[+steve p]

Don't even get me started on the USAF pilot I verbally beat two years ago on posting a pic of his GPS, coordinates visible, on an airfield in Iraq. That's just stupid...

Just curious, but why is that stupid? Because the insurgents don't already know where all the airfields are located?

[+wimseyguy]

Placing caches on military post, should it be allowed or not allowed ?

 

I hope posting this doesn't get the caches removed because there are many excellent places to visit on our military post.

 

According to the guidelines you should not. You'll find this by following the link:

Caches near or on military installations.

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

 

I'm an active duty service member and personally don't have any problem with placing them on post, my personal opinion may not count though. Also here's some caches located on military post, I won't list to many in case people start reporting them to be removed.

Ft. Bragg

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?id=129482

 

I propose that a cache reviewer ask someone near the cache or visit the site themselves to verify that it is a good location if it is located on a post. Some of these may take longer to approve of course. Common sense and a through review of the placement of the cache will be needed requiring more time of our volunteers who do this, thank them for doing this and/or go with them.

 

If you agree with me please let ground speak know so some review of the policy can be made and let a comment here please. If you don't please write why or why not.

 

I'm all in favor of people visiting our post to show support or just to swing by and see some of the very historic sights we have to offer. Ie. Our museums, battle grounds and other places of interest.

 

1. The Fort Bragg cache is not on base. The thumbnail google map may make it look that way, but it isn't.

From the cache page: "This is NOT on a Military Reservation. " I've been there they are telling the truth.

2. All the necessary guidelines already exist. There isn't any reason for a second opinion from a nearby cacher. These caches were published because they complied with the guidelines. If permission was necessary, it was provided to the reviewer.

 

I recently found the one at the Beruit Memorial at the entry to Quantico. There is a laminated note on letterhead from the officers who granted permission for that cache placement in the container. As there should be.

Edited December 10, 2007 by wimseyguy

[+eagletrek]

Second is that civilians certainly have no business wandering around a military base. It's too risky to both them and for the military personnel who may mistake them for a threat.

 

It seems like a bad situation waiting to happen in my opinion

 

Besides the excellent "official" explanations given by Quiggle, I would like to add that the above is not necessarily true. Many (if not most) installations have public areas such as museums, facitilities (pools, athletic fields, schools), and monuments where civilians are welcome. With proper vehicle registration, insurance and a valid ID, and explaining the purpose of the visit, civilians can get on many installations with these facilities.

 

One of the problems is getting permission. One range control officer may or may not have the authority to grant permission. Even securing the senior mission commander or installation commander's permission is sketchy - that's a two year (at most) command, and in the exchange of duties to a replacement, an allowed geocache probably will be forgotten.

 

I can't believe I'm reading this from Jeep Dog. Yes there are places on military installations that the public can visit such as museums as long as they have the proper vehicle registration, insurance and a valid ID, etc... They are there to visit and not play games espicially looking for and hiding things on a military installation which could easily be misconstrued as something else!!!!! Where's your common sense!!!!

 

That said, I don't believe any commander in his right mind would grant permission to allow a bunch of folks to hide containers all over his installation.

 

Ya know I really surprised to here this from a current comissioned officer but I guess that' the difference between the "Old Army" and the "New Army!!!!!"

 

BOTTOM LINE: Your armed forces have a few other important things to worry about right now if you haven't noticed so find some other place to hide your caches!!!!

 

BTW, as a retired Army Officer, I've assisted my local installation in keeping caches off government land.

Edited December 10, 2007 by eagletrek

[+Jeep_Dog]

 

I can't believe I'm reading this from Jeep Dog. Yes there are places on military installations that the public can visit such as museums as long as they have the proper vehicle registration, insurance and a valid ID, etc... They are there to visit and not play games espicially looking for and hiding things on a military installation which could easily be misconstrued as something else!!!!! Where's your common sense!!!!

 

That said, I don't believe any commander in his right mind would grant permission to allow a bunch of folks to hide containers all over his installation.

 

Ya know I really surprised to here this from a current comissioned officer but I guess that' the difference between the "Old Army" and the "New Army!!!!!"

 

 

If you were more interested in reading and expanding perspective as opposed to assuming and flaming, perhaps you would notice:

 

1) I never mentioned containers or "hiding" things on an installation;

2) My point was to address the misconception of non-military visiting posts;

3) I highlighted that permission is hugely problematic.

 

If anything, I envision perhaps a multi-cache, with one of the stages being a memorial, plaque, or museum placard that would contain information for a follow-on stage or a final cache off the installation. Generally, such public awareness of memorials/plaques/museums is generally welcomed and embraced on installations. Whoa, I know that is thinking "outside the box" or "current paradigm," but so be it.

 

The only difference in "new" and "old" is how you choose to perceive such "differences." I could just as easily judge you, from my current standpoint, for never being CSL; such nonsense is irrelevant.

[+eagletrek]

 

I can't believe I'm reading this from Jeep Dog. Yes there are places on military installations that the public can visit such as museums as long as they have the proper vehicle registration, insurance and a valid ID, etc... They are there to visit and not play games espicially looking for and hiding things on a military installation which could easily be misconstrued as something else!!!!! Where's your common sense!!!!

 

That said, I don't believe any commander in his right mind would grant permission to allow a bunch of folks to hide containers all over his installation.

 

Ya know I really surprised to here this from a current comissioned officer but I guess that' the difference between the "Old Army" and the "New Army!!!!!"

 

 

If you were more interested in reading and expanding perspective as opposed to assuming and flaming, perhaps you would notice:

 

1) I never mentioned containers or "hiding" things on an installation;

2) My point was to address the misconception of non-military visiting posts;

3) I highlighted that permission is hugely problematic.

 

If anything, I envision perhaps a multi-cache, with one of the stages being a memorial, plaque, or museum placard that would contain information for a follow-on stage or a final cache off the installation. Generally, such public awareness of memorials/plaques/museums is generally welcomed and embraced on installations. Whoa, I know that is thinking "outside the box" or "current paradigm," but so be it.

 

The only difference in "new" and "old" is how you choose to perceive such "differences." I could just as easily judge you, from my current standpoint, for never being CSL; such nonsense is irrelevant.

 

What I expected out of a current active duty officer would have been a clear/consise statement along the lines: "While it may be possible in some exceptional conditions, I wouldn't recommend or suggest it as we in the military have more important issues to deal with like winning a war and preparing for the next one!!!!" But then again, I'm not a slow and Zenful cacher!!!

[+Jeep_Dog]

What I expected out of a current active duty officer would have been a clear/consise statement along the lines: "While it may be possible in some exceptional conditions, I wouldn't recommend or suggest it as we in the military have more important issues to deal with like winning a war and preparing for the next one!!!!" But then again, I'm not a slow and Zenful cacher!!!

 

If I would be anything besides zenful, I may be quite remiss indeed that I do not live up to your expectations. I suppose my two combat tours has dulled my "common sense."

 

Yet, I do not see the link between "GPS games" and "deal with like winning a war and preparing for the next one!!!!"

 

Perhaps you can explain how the following cache finds below, all on a military installation, detracted from the personnel on the base from "winning a war and preparing for the next one" so that I may better understand my error?

 

List of caches:

 

Cache 1

 

Cache 2

 

Cache 3

 

Cache 4

 

Cache 5

[+eagletrek]

What I expected out of a current active duty officer would have been a clear/consise statement along the lines: "While it may be possible in some exceptional conditions, I wouldn't recommend or suggest it as we in the military have more important issues to deal with like winning a war and preparing for the next one!!!!" But then again, I'm not a slow and Zenful cacher!!!

 

If I would be anything besides zenful, I may be quite remiss indeed that I do not live up to your expectations. I suppose my two combat tours has dulled my "common sense."

 

Yet, I do not see the link between "GPS games" and "deal with like winning a war and preparing for the next one!!!!"

 

Perhaps you can explain how the following cache finds below, all on a military installation, detracted from the personnel on the base from "winning a war and preparing for the next one" so that I may better understand my error?

 

List of caches:

 

Cache 1

 

Cache 2

 

Cache 3

 

Cache 4

 

Cache 5

 

Ahhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Once agin you stray from the topic at hand. I believe the OP and most that have posted on this thread were and are refering to actual physical caches. The examples you posted are all "Locationless Caches." Remember those????? So nothing was hidden. All that was to be found was an example of what the cache owner was looking for. Why do do try to confuse the issue????

 

Additionally, the "Locationless Caches" that I found on Fort Hood posed no issues for the military authorities on the installation as I'm properly credentialed. Remember that I work there as well. Let's try to tell the whole story next time. What you failed to mention were the caches that were placed on the installation by others and through my efforts were removed.

 

So once again, tell me why you think it's a good idea to allow civilians to come on military installations to hide and seek caches!!!!!

[+Jeep_Dog]

So once again, tell me why you think it's a good idea to allow civilians to come on military installations to hide and seek caches!!!!!

 

I do not think it a good idea. Since these types of caches are against the guidelines, I hardly think it is worth arguing any further, hence my blatant and deliberate avoidance of that facet of the discussion.

 

Concise or not, I was exploring the fringes and focusing on what could be accomplished, as opposed to focusing on the impossible/improbable. This was an attempt to address the OP's comment of "I'm all in favor of people visiting our post to show support or just to swing by and see some of the very historic sights we have to offer. Ie. Our museums, battle grounds and other places of interest."

 

Hence, my statement a few posts back of "I envision perhaps a multi-cache, with one of the stages being a memorial, plaque, or museum placard that would contain information for a follow-on stage or a final cache off the installation."

 

Why do do try to confuse the issue????

 

Ah, I probably became confused and afraid following the mean green meme assualt exemplified by "Where's your common sense!!!!"

[steve638]

Just want to thank you all for the comments, facts, and experiences. Based on what I've read from all comments in this thread and other information(some links I followed from this thread) you all helped shape my thoughts on this topic. I'm no expert and am still learning. Keep in mind these are just my thoughts not recommendations for changes to policy as I suggested in the OP.

 

1. I agree with the guidelines that no caches should be allowed on military post.

Sorry, to all you deployed SM it may get you in trouble.

 

2. People are going to place them on military post and there isn't much you can do about it as long as reviewers allow them to be published.

 

3. I do encourage people to visit our military bases to visit public places. Ie. Museums, labeled historical spots, and other places encouraged by our post policies(fishing&hunting). Not Motor Pools, ASP's and Arty impact area's(although there's some people I could think that should visit arty impact area's).

 

4. For anyone who wants to place a cache on post I suggest this instead, kind of like the old virtual caches linked together. Create a multi stage cache that requires a cacher to go from site to site gathering information with the actual cache located off and away from post.

 

Ie. Have cachers travel from museums and historical places on post, using that information to locate the actual cache off post.

 

This is one suggestion anyone else have others ?

[+Jeep_Dog]

This is a great topic, Steve. I appreciate the highlight/discussion of issues you have brought to bear.

 

Just a note on your last post - I think caches in Iraq/Afghanistan are in a completely different category than the overall scope of this discussion. For example, the caches I have placed in Iraq have the support/overhead of MWR, who endeavored to secure permission from FOB "mayors" (who could frankly care a less). In the cases over there, only folks authorized on FOBs can search the caches, and they are far less "dangerous" of a morale activity than say, a Toby Keith USO concert with loud speakers and lights.

[+ChiefWings]

... and they are far less "dangerous" of a morale activity than say, a Toby Keith USO concert with loud speakers and lights.

 

Amen!

[+KTGI]

This is a great topic, Steve. I appreciate the highlight/discussion of issues you have brought to bear.

 

Just a note on your last post - I think caches in Iraq/Afghanistan are in a completely different category than the overall scope of this discussion. For example, the caches I have placed in Iraq have the support/overhead of MWR, who endeavored to secure permission from FOB "mayors" (who could frankly care a less). In the cases over there, only folks authorized on FOBs can search the caches, and they are far less "dangerous" of a morale activity than say, a Toby Keith USO concert with loud speakers and lights.

 

FWIW, I would have to disagree with this one. FOB security is taken very seriously. Contract civilians, though allowed on FOBs, are still a potential threat. Any activity that allows a person to "hide" something in a secure area is a bad idea in a combat theater. Perhaps I'm being overly risk-averse, but one can imagine the damage to our sport's reputation if an explosive, espionage, or other harmful device was hidden on a FOB geocache.

 

Worse still are the geocaches in war zones but not on FOBs. At one point, there were a few; I don't know if they still exist. I do know that some FOB caches were placed and the FOBs were later closed. Those caches (e.g. danger, danger, danger) need to be archived before some young soldier gets curious enough to try an "off-FOB" cache and gets him/herself hurt. I realize that this isn't solely an American game, so there's nothing to prevent Iraqis/Afghanis from placing and hunting their own caches, but the sport's reputation could suffer a severe blow in the eyes of American military commanders if we in the Military geocaching community don't act responsibly.

[+Jeep_Dog]

I agree FOB security is serious business. When I stated mayors were not concerned, I was referring strictly to concern about well-marked geocaches.

 

All of the ones I encountered were either too small to be confused for anything dangerous and too small to attach nefarious devices such as you outline, or were big and quite obviously not a threat (complete with see-through containers). In any case, each and every one was VERY well marked and most of the large ones were regularly inspected by deployed (and dedicated) cachers.

 

I agree with the importance of cache maintenance, especially removal and archival of caches on closed FOBs. I would assume that if you know of any of these, you bothered to contact the cache owner to verify, and if no verification indicated a "SBA?" Erik, who was the reviewer for one of the locations when I was there, is a phenomenal reviewer who keeps up with caches there very diligently.

 

The handful of caches that I logged, and the associated tour to check on all the caches about once a week, in my last tour was one of the few things that kept my sanity intact. From the logs I read on caches over there, that is the same affect for folks over there now. I would be very disappointed if this thread or other discussion shut down that piece of "home," especially the caches that are fully supported by MWR and have appropriate permission from FOB mayors/governors.

[steve638]

This is a great topic, Steve. I appreciate the highlight/discussion of issues you have brought to bear.

 

Just a note on your last post - I think caches in Iraq/Afghanistan are in a completely different category than the overall scope of this discussion. For example, the caches I have placed in Iraq have the support/overhead of MWR, who endeavored to secure permission from FOB "mayors" (who could frankly care a less). In the cases over there, only folks authorized on FOBs can search the caches, and they are far less "dangerous" of a morale activity than say, a Toby Keith USO concert with loud speakers and lights.

 

I didn't think this topic would go as far as it did, but then I realized there's a large number of military personal that do this.

 

This topic wasn't meant to have good caches removed just for people to discuss what we do, how it is done, what we do wrong and how we can improve it in the future. In this format we will improve caching for everyone possibly in the future.

[+eagsc7]

Aren't most (maybe all?) military bases off-limits to civilians? Can caches be listed for locations where most people can't access them?

 

Yes they are off limits to generic civilians. But most civilians can sign up. They are not businesses charging an admission fee, they are not restricting access based on anything that's not allowed in the Civil Rights act etc. In other words they are a valid exception to the general rule that caches should be available to everone.

 

Most bases are also larger than the fenced off, no civilains allowed parts. They may or may not allow public access on the larger undeveloped lands.

 

Where I'm at, I just found out that I just needed to inform EOD and get my Squadron Commander approval to place one(within reason) on base. Of course, the cacher would need to call either myself or my wife to be able to meet them at the gate, but it Can still be done...

 

Of course, I find this out right After we move Off base...

[+tabulator32]

I have been stationed in Maine, in Orlando, in Norfolk, in Wallops Island, in San Diego and Honolulu. Its been a few years but I would imagine, if presented with a good display of intention and purpose, a cache couldn't be placed on the outskirts of the common areas of any of these bases (with the exception of Wallops Island Missile Development and Training Command), providing the base command had a decent outlook and even a familiarity with the person placing the cache.

 

Naturally, civilians should not be allowed to wander freely around military bases and geocachers should be no exception, however, there ARE safe locations on or near ANY base, typically near other recreational sites, that would serve this function very well.

 

It should be a location that civilians would typically be allowed access to for recreational purposes and it should be part of the watch turnover for the security teams to be aware of who and how many people have logged the cache. It might even be a good on-going exercise for them.

 

Concerning overseas bases, that would be a case-by-case basis, I'm sure.

Edited December 16, 2007 by tabulator32

[+LostMontanan]

Hey Steve638....I was at Riley for 3 years...it was before I discovered caching though, lol. What unit are you in?

[+ChiefWings]

Placing caches on military post, should it be allowed or not allowed ?

 

I hope posting this doesn't get the caches removed because there are many excellent places to visit on our military post. :ph34

 

Some review of the policy needs to be made. Many service members are geocachers and could be used to verify that caches are placed in good locations that won't get them in trouble.

 

I agree that a review of the “guidelines” would be a good idea. Reviews never hurt.

 

Just an example for thought:

What is meant by the word “near”? What is meant by the word “airport”?

I think this is where common sense has to kick in.

If a reviewer read this in a cache description, would it automatically be turned down?

“A cache, in a corn field, ‘near’ a small ‘airport’ in the middle of nowhere.”

 

If I were you, I’d work with my local reviewer, the Military Association of Geocachers (MAGC) and Ft. Riley’s MWR. If local reviewer has a problem with a cache … is there a reviewer above him/her?

 

There’s so many “military” installations around the world that I think the local reviewer should be able to determine weather a cache is appropriate. Even among our (US military) installations, there is a wide range of security levels and public access.

Like Neos2 said:

“There may be some exceptions. If your cache fits within one of the above areas, please explain this in a note to the reviewer.”

 

I don’t see a problem with a container cache on a military installation as long as you have permission, just like any other private property.

 

As for caches in SWA, I wish I had been in this game and had caches to hunt on my deployments. I traveled all over both theaters and 90% of the time was bored out of my mind. Just the nature of my job. The other 10% of adrenalin rush makes me love what I do. Not to say I wasn’t working my butt off but work can be boring.

 

Hmm:

-Bombs in caches at FOBs? Dropping one in a trashcan would be easier.

-Pic of GPSer cords. at airfield in Iraq? The locals probably built the place, they already know the cords. or can get them off the internet.

- It should be a location that civilians would typically be allowed access to for recreational purposes and it should be part of the watch turnover for the security teams to be aware of who and how many people have logged the cache. It might even be a good on-going exercise for them. I agree! I hunted a cache on a collage campus one night (best time to find a place to park.) It involved about 7 stages. When I reached GZ, a campus police car was park there waiting on us. They said they’d been watching us during the hunt. When I told them I hadn’t seen them, they said that was part of their training to “observe the cache hunters unobserved.”

- Assisted my local installation in keeping caches off government land. I thought of a lot of comments I could make regarding this statement. All I will say is the word “Army” and “Officer” preceded the statement.

 

Good luck steve638.

BTW, have you checked out www.terracaching.com?

 

Aim High!

E-9

[steve638]

I had a good experience with the reviewer in my area and no hard feelings he was just following the guidelines. He recommended I take it up with Groundspeak. Mainly because the cache falls in that gray area. It's at a public place on post that anyone can drive by and it's at a place of little to no foot traffic but still a cool historical spot here on Ft. Riley. Everyone has provided a lot of good feed back.

 

I'm going to contact that Military Association of Geocachers (MAGC) see what help they can provide. Also I just checked out the Terracaching.com and am going to bookmark that website, seems challenging.

 

Thanks for the quality feedback!

[+SuitedPair]

There are currently two caches located at the base where I currently am. They are specifically for military personnel. One is to drop off/pick up travelbugs(GC16TNW) and the other (GC1195W)is for Soliders, Sailors, Airmen and Marines(those who can read) (JK!!!) to have something to do while waiting on a rotator flight either into or out of Hell. It can take a couple of days to figure this one out and is a good way to spend a couple of days. I have had quite a few non-cachers wanting to help with these and have even converted a few to our kind.

 

Does anybody truly have a problem with these types of Caches? They are real morale boosters over here and if you take them away it will be one more reason for life to suck over here. They are already taking my holiday season away from me!

[+simpjkee]

Fine with me. I'm glad our troops will something to do for fun while they are not getting shot at.

 

Though, I think the difficulty/terrain would easily be a 5/5

[+tabulator32]

Fine with me. I'm glad our troops will something to do for fun while they are not getting shot at.

 

Though, I think the difficulty/terrain would easily be a 5/5

 

Just, please, don't hide an ammo can in a big pile of other ammo cans!

 

[nobby.nobbs]

So if they left an ammo can cache standing out in the open..... in the middle of a mine field would it still be a level 5 difficulty due to needing a metal detector?

[+tabulator32]

No. I'm pretty certain the metal detector requirement would be negligible at that point as far as the cache rating is concerned.