I almost don't want to admit this..

[+LaTuFu]

I have the week off and the house to myself (offspring with the Ex at the beach this week), so I decided to hop in the car and go on a caching road trip to the SW corner of Virginia and the Eastern part of TN. Not too far from me, but far enough I wouldn't drive here all the time.

 

Spent the night before downloading the Pocket Queries to my GPS and the ebook to my mobile phone. Took off Sunday morning looking forward to some fun.

 

Loaded up a waypoint in my GPS, then got started. Found a couple, kept hitting "find next" after each successful find. Things were going great, until...

 

...I could take it no more. It was one mind numbing micro after another. I got to a point where I could tell who the owner of the cache was by the particular brand of micro container he was buying. I figured out another person by the total lack of creativity in his hides. Quantity was his goal, not quantity. One hide area dragged me thru the middle of an illegal dump, just off the interstate--just outside the 528' boundary for placing another cache (My GPS said that cache was .12 miles from the hide I where I was standing). From the hide, I could see the phone booth where someone else had also placed a micro. I didn't even bother looking for that one, I just took the DNF and moved on. As I was standing at a broken open electrical junction box (Yes, that was supposed to be where it was hidden, in or around a live junction box) in a shopping center, within eyesight of two other micros at opposite ends of the same shopping center, I finally had my fill.

 

Unfortunately, while making my pocket query, in my "youthfulness" as a cacher I did not attempt to filter out micros. Having no idea that almost every single one of these hides was a micro, I didn't know any better. With literally 2,000 waypoints in my PQ, and no way to sort them, I was drowning in them.

 

There were a handful of truly wonderful caches, however. There was a gorgeous virtual that took me to a 100 year old limestone bridge, a small container hide that brought me to a 150 year old church and spring, among many others. Hidden among the alphabet soup of micros under lamp skirts (I dodged more wasps than I ever care to admit) I found a few that made the trip worthwhile.

 

I hate to sound like some of the crotchety old timers that haunt this forum (never thought I would agree with them) but after spending 2 days sifting through micros, I'm not a big fan of them. I used to be indifferent, now I prefer to leave them alone.

 

Don't get me wrong. I enjoy a micro--when its placed somewhere that is enjoyable! I took a DNF on one this morning just off the Appalachian Trail in Virginia. Beautiful site, great hike to reach it. It stinks that I didn't find it, but I enjoyed myself completely. A local cacher in my area uses micros quite a bit, but they all seem to have a purpose, a nice location, or are the clue to a much larger container. Taking a DNF on a guardrail micro just doesn't give me the same feeling of appreciation.

 

I have no regrets, I learned what I enjoy and what I don't enjoy about this game. The numbers folks can have the micros, I suppose, I bear them no ill will. (And I highly recommend the Tri-Cities/Bristol/Abingdon, VA area for those folks, you'll be in heaven!)

 

Now if you'll excuse me, I received a shiny new Red Jeep TB in the mail yesterday, I have to scout out a few caches in the area worthy of its placement. I'm off all week, I think I can find a good place for her.

 

I'll value the customized filter on my Pocket Query builder from now on.

 

Cheers and thanks for the opportunity to share my travels.

 

[/rant]

[coldbeer]

[+gh patriot]

Yup. Not much else to add.

[+Renegade Knight]

To borrow from Paul Harvey. "PQs are useful for their purpose, but they are no substitute for brains".

 

I've really had to start looking at the caches before I go out. It's impossible to just go and expect a varity of caches anymore on any one route.

Edited July 3, 2007 by Renegade Knight

[+TheManInStripes]

As one who caches with my kids, we ignore the micros then. They like the treasures, which just can't be found in a micro.

 

But, of course, when it comes to racing for a FTF, who cares what size it is!!!

[+CurmudgeonlyGal]

 

...

 

I hate to sound like some of the crotchety old timers that haunt this forum (never thought I would agree with them) but

 

...

 

[/rant]

[coldbeer]

 

 

Welcome to the dark side.

 

 

 

 

 

michelle

[+Miragee]

I feel your pain . . . A while back I took a road trip to an Event. My caching partner and I soon tired of the caches we were finding, and it didn't take long to see who the culprits were. After that, we just avoided those caches when we looked up the information in our Palms and saw who the cache owner was.

 

When I was in Colorado caching with my cousin and her family, I definitely didn't want us to be looking for any Micros. I had my laptop with me, so I just filtered out all the Micros in GSAK before loading that set of waypoints in my GPSr.

 

We really had a good time that afternoon finding small containers and ammo cans.

[+TrailGators]

I feel your pain too. The days of loading up a PQ and heading out caching are long gone for me too. I am very leary these days of doing any cache that has a difficulty or a terrain rating of "1." When you get up to "2" you are a lot less likely to run into YKWs (you-know-whats). I also have been using the ignore feature quite a bit. I read through caches near my home coordinates, and if they sound like YNWs then I will ignore them. I wish I could ignore all the caches from certain prolific YNW hiders, but that probably will never be a feature.

[+StarBrand]

It is too simplistic to simply ignore all micros. There are some good ones. A few anyway.

 

But I am tempted.

[Clan Riffster]

Things were going great, until...I could take it no more. It was one mind numbing micro after another.

I had one potential employer tell me this is a sign of a keen intellect. Several decades ago, whilst job hunting, one business had me conduct a series of menial physical tasks, trying to determine the point where boredom engaged. Through their evaluation, they determined that I got bored too fast, which they claimed was indicative of a high IQ. As I recall, his exact words were, "Sorry boy, you're just too dang smart to work here." If they only knew I was dumber than a bag of hammers, I could still be there to this day, assembling whatever stuff they needed assembling. Note: This was before ADHD was invented by our pharmaceutical corporations.

 

The good news is that there is a cure for the film canister virus.

[+...The Girl]

They don't call it "micro spew" for nuthin'.

 

Oh, and LTF, two things ...

 

1) I hope you're healed up now.

 

2) Poo.

Edited July 3, 2007 by ...The Girl

[+LaTuFu]

They don't call it "micro spew" for nuthin'.

 

Oh, and LTF, two things ...

 

1) I hope you're healed up now.

 

2) Poo.

 

I knew I could count on you to connect this discussion to Poo. Its funny on any level, in any thread.

 

Yep, all healed up now. Although I think I may have chipped something in there. I have full range of motion in my elbow, doesn't hurt unless I press directly on it.

 

Oh well, its my drinking elbow and guitar pickin' elbow, and it doesn't seem to affect either of those activities. Or one other not mentionable on this forum, for that matter. So what if there is a little lump on the end of my elbow. Doesn't everybody have a lump somewhere?

 

Going back to my homebrew and playing Seven Bridges Road.

[+Markwell]

Boy - it took me a while to find my post along these lines:

 

...throwing out ALL caches based on a particular characteristic of a cache is a "baby-with-the-bathwater" solution. Let me see if I can come up with a good hypothetical.

 

If there was a data field on the system for caches indicated the color of the container, and I found that in my region, people using purple containers placed caches that I didn't enjoy hunting, I would exclude purple containers from my search, possibly even put them on my ignore list as soon as they pop up. But then along comes a cacher that places caches EXACTLY like I enjoy hunting, but he happens to use purple containers. Because of the limitations of the system, unless I periodically try a purple container cache and realize that this new individual is hiding caches that I would enjoy, I would be missing out on an opportunity to have fun playing this game.

 

However, if there were some OTHER method of showing aggregated information that purple caches were suddenly on the rise in popularity, it would likely be enough to trigger me to look again at purple container caches.

 

This post loosely fits in this topic in that there may be some very nice micros out there. I wouldn't exclude them from my data source completely just because of the container size. I do wish there were some OTHER way of indicating that a cache is worth my time and effort, but there isn't.

 

At this point, I'd suggest still pulling the micro data, but use GSAK to limit it to the caches you'll *KNOW* you enjoy.

 

For example, there are about 1,015 active caches within a 20 mile radius of my home. Of those, I've found a few. Many have characteristics I don't enjoy. Some are logged recently as having multiple "not found" or "needs maintenance" is one of the attributes. So after weeding out the caches, I could easily head out the door and find 132 caches within 20 miles that fit my idea of what I *KNOW* will be fun (13%). Shorten the distance down to 10 miles, and that percentage of caches goes down to 5%. But that's still a lot of caches to find.

 

Sad part is, I'll miss some of the fun ones in the other 290 caches.

[+LaTuFu]

Yeah, there were definitely some great caches on this trip, and a few of them were micros. It was the location and/or the hunt that made it fun. Culling out Micros would have eliminated this. Looking back on the ones I didn't enjoy, they were all hidden by the same 2 or 3 people. Although those hiders may well have some excellent caches somewhere, the odds would be with me if I was somehow able to filter out by user. (Don't go down the GSAK path, I'm aware. I think more robust filtering ability should be available when I'm building my pocket query.)

[+sbell111]

Well let's see. You were on a caching trip and you realized two things: 1) all of the caches you were finding were micros and 2) you weren't having fun.

 

Perhaps the simplest solution would have been to check the cache size quickly before hitting <goto>. If it was 'micro', choose a different cache to go after.

 

Granted, it isn't a perfect solution because you might miss the greatest micro ever, but it would certainly solve you're problem as you have presented it.

[+Renegade Knight]

It is too simplistic to simply ignore all micros. There are some good ones. A few anyway.

 

But I am tempted.

 

I keep them in my PQ and use GPX sonar to filter then. You are right. Some are good.

[Luckless]

OP-You're a premium member. That means you can make a listing (bookmark) of all those caches on your trip that you liked thereby providing your fellow cachers with a list of caches that you feel were worth the trip and in essence recommending them to others traveling that way. This is one way you can help to weed out the spew.

There is a listing in the northeast forum for bookmark lists.

[+geomann1]

I've taken the quality over quantity approach, and take the time to scan/read the logs to identify the caches that I would likely enjoy the most. It allows me to filter out the caches that I just don't like to do. Although there is certainly the possibility of skipping a great cache, I feel that I greatly increase the likelihood that the caches I do go after being enjoyable to me.

[+chuckwagon101]

If the cache container is not big enough......to hold a lotta loot........WHY BOTHER!

[Neos2]

When we head out, I pull in all the caches we could hope to do and more (in case we get in a mood to really cache) then I skim through the caches along the main route for names of caches that intrigue me. I preview some of those to make sure I find a few that look like they'll be interesting to us (historic site, quirky cache page, on lots of recommended lists made by people we know and trust, etc etc)--mostly it's instinct. It sounds like it takes a lot of time, but it really doesn't--especially when you compare it to wasted time on the road.

 

Then we just go. If we start getting frustrated in an area, we look to the "must do" list to see which is the nearest and we bypass the others to go find it.

 

More often than not, the things that frustrate me aren't the caches, but the non-available parking, the odd traffic patterns, and the other unexpected things non-locals don't know.

[+Miragee]

<snip>

 

More often than not, the things that frustrate me aren't the caches, but the non-available parking, the odd traffic patterns, and the other unexpected things non-locals don't know.

Boy, ain't that the truth. I drove around for an hour, covering 15 miles in the small town of Montrose, CO, trying to figure out how to find the access to a cache. Never did!

 

A few months later, I was back in the area and trying to find access to another cache. Same problem. Same cache hider.

 

I never found access to that cache either . . .

[+TrailGators]

<snip>

 

More often than not, the things that frustrate me aren't the caches, but the non-available parking, the odd traffic patterns, and the other unexpected things non-locals don't know.

Boy, ain't that the truth. I drove around for an hour, covering 15 miles in the small town of Montrose, CO, trying to figure out how to find the access to a cache. Never did!

 

A few months later, I was back in the area and trying to find access to another cache. Same problem. Same cache hider.

 

I never found access to that cache either . . .

That's part of caching. I think that's a different issue than YKWs...

[+Snoogans]

I've taken the quality over quantity approach, and take the time to scan/read the logs to identify the caches that I would likely enjoy the most. It allows me to filter out the caches that I just don't like to do. Although there is certainly the possibility of skipping a great cache, I feel that I greatly increase the likelihood that the caches I do go after being enjoyable to me.

 

 

I take that approach to caching most often, but I am also an opportunist when I am traveling. I'm happy for ANY cache along the way.

 

 

I go to a lot of events and I will generally pass on most caches near my home unless the word of mouth is really good. It keeps me from getting burnt out and developing feelings of entitlement for my time and gas.

 

 

A cache is a cache is a cache. All the hider owes you or me is to have hidden the cache within the guidelines and to have final coords within 30ft (the most common error) or so of the actual cache. Nothing more.

 

 

If it wasn't for micros, skirt lifters, and wally world caches, I wouldn't have gotten a cache in every state I passed through (15) on my way to and from GW5.

 

 

If you (the royal you) EXPECT more than that, you will have problems enjoying yourself geocaching.

 

 

The hider doesn't OWE you some awesome adventure. They are participating in a game called geocaching where you use a GPSr to find something that has been hidden. They hid something to participate. Get it?

 

 

You choose to hunt caches. Caches don't hunt you. If most caches don't blow your skirt up as they don't with me, then modify your cachin' routine to fit your expectations better. Take responsibility for your own choices as most of the rest of the adult world does. You'll be much happier in the long run.....

[+Spunkmeyer]

Ah... Been discussed before... If only a cache "quality" rating system could solve all of the world's bad geocaching ills. I don't think it would, but a finder rating system would be nice.

 

Comment

Fundamentally, I wish that people used "difficulty" a bit more carefully - I want to know if this "one and a half star" difficulty cache is a skirt lift or tree crook micro P&G. The rating just doesn't separate P&Gs very well from other caches. I still have to laugh that one of the hardest caches I've found is a 1.5 difficultly (GCVBBF is definitely not a 1.5 in my book).

 

Some P&Gs are great for what they are. Sometimes I'm in the mood for a P&G. I just want to be able to pick them out.

 

Suggestion

I feel that many people can appropriately rate a cache as a finder based on the expectation and difficulty set by the owner - just a simple scale of 1 to 5 ("waste of time" to "well worth it" to "amazingly fun and clever"). I'm still surprised that this doesn't exist to keep the quality of caches up.

 

Every time I find a cache made from a soggy cardboard SlimJim can thrown under a bush, I want to scream.

[+TrailGators]

I've taken the quality over quantity approach, and take the time to scan/read the logs to identify the caches that I would likely enjoy the most. It allows me to filter out the caches that I just don't like to do. Although there is certainly the possibility of skipping a great cache, I feel that I greatly increase the likelihood that the caches I do go after being enjoyable to me.

Take responsibility for your own choices as most of the rest of the adult world does. You'll be much happier in the long run.....

I have learned to expect very little these days. When you lower your expectations things seem to get better. However, I would be happier than a pig in YNW, if there was a way to ignore all the caches from the handful of Johnny Crappleseeds in my area with one button press.

[+Kiwi Nomad]

Now I am not suggesting you should interfer with other peoples hides but...

 

if you happened to come across a particuly 'why did they put it here?!?!' lpc / tossed out a window / middle of local tip cache. It would be very sad if you had to log a dnf of course the correct thing to do would be to CITO because people shouldn't leave rubbish lying around for others to find when the geocache especialy small grey plastic containers that are just rubbish and not serving any purpose.

 

[Edited by moderator to remove potty language. The CITO suggestion is not well-taken, either.]

Edited July 7, 2007 by Keystone

[+geomann1]

Ah... Been discussed before... If only a cache "quality" rating system could solve all of the world's bad geocaching ills. I don't think it would, but a finder rating system would be nice.

 

Comment

Fundamentally, I wish that people used "difficulty" a bit more carefully - I want to know if this "one and a half star" difficulty cache is a skirt lift or tree crook micro P&G. The rating just doesn't separate P&Gs very well from other caches. I still have to laugh that one of the hardest caches I've found is a 1.5 difficultly (GCVBBF is definitely not a 1.5 in my book).

 

Some P&Gs are great for what they are. Sometimes I'm in the mood for a P&G. I just want to be able to pick them out.

 

Suggestion

I feel that many people can appropriately rate a cache as a finder based on the expectation and difficulty set by the owner - just a simple scale of 1 to 5 ("waste of time" to "well worth it" to "amazingly fun and clever"). I'm still surprised that this doesn't exist to keep the quality of caches up.

 

Every time I find a cache made from a soggy cardboard SlimJim can thrown under a bush, I want to scream.

 

The main problem I see with a rating system is that it will get people upset and start acting petty. This issue reminds me of an engineering company I formerly worked for, in which the project managers had to rate people's performance as to the degree they missed, met, or exceeded expectations. Turned out everyone exceeded expectations and to say that someone did an average job was construed as a negative rating. I had an incident where I rated someone's performance as exceeding expectations and she was in tears because she always was given a "greatly exceeded expectations". Once you start public ratings, watch out, as some people will go out of control. - How dare you rate my cache as only a two, your log will be deleted.

 

The only solution I have is to given honest praise in logs to noteworthy caches. It will become evident which caches and cache-hiders are worth looking for.

[+Googling Hrpty Hrrs]

I've taken the quality over quantity approach, and take the time to scan/read the logs to identify the caches that I would likely enjoy the most. It allows me to filter out the caches that I just don't like to do. Although there is certainly the possibility of skipping a great cache, I feel that I greatly increase the likelihood that the caches I do go after being enjoyable to me.

 

 

I take that approach to caching most often, but I am also an opportunist when I am traveling. I'm happy for ANY cache along the way.

 

 

I go to a lot of events and I will generally pass on most caches near my home unless the word of mouth is really good. It keeps me from getting burnt out and developing feelings of entitlement for my time and gas.

 

 

A cache is a cache is a cache. All the hider owes you or me is to have hidden the cache within the guidelines and to have final coords within 30ft (the most common error) or so of the actual cache. Nothing more.

 

 

If it wasn't for micros, skirt lifters, and wally world caches, I wouldn't have gotten a cache in every state I passed through (15) on my way to and from GW5.

 

 

If you (the royal you) EXPECT more than that, you will have problems enjoying yourself geocaching.

 

 

The hider doesn't OWE you some awesome adventure. They are participating in a game called geocaching where you use a GPSr to find something that has been hidden. They hid something to participate. Get it?

 

 

You choose to hunt caches. Caches don't hunt you. If most caches don't blow your skirt up as they don't with me, then modify your cachin' routine to fit your expectations better. Take responsibility for your own choices as most of the rest of the adult world does. You'll be much happier in the long run.....

 

Okay, so I invite you over for a delicious dinner and fine conversation. You ask if you need to bring anything, and I respond, "No, I wouldn't dream of it." Just bring your appetite! You ask what sort of meal I'm planning, because you don't want to be TOTALLY in the dark, and I let you know it's hard to describe, and I don't want to spoil the surprise, but it's somewhat akin to pasta.

 

I don't OWE you a great meal. And you've taken responsibility to come over and eat dinner. You could have said no, you have laundry to do. But you're a man of adventure and you decided to go for some good ol' GHH home cooking.

 

When you arrive, I let you know you're in for a special treat. I've specially prepared my secret recipe of Worms with Lemon Juice.

 

 

After being polite and swallowing a few bites without chewing, you mention how you had a late lunch and you're not real hungry. We end up having enjoyable conversation, though, and you leave with an overall impression that I'm a good person, but not necessarily a great cook.

 

Later, you happen to be on the internet and see a forum dedicated to cooking. There's a thread about awful meals, and though you post a response that states something along the lines of "the host doesn't OWE you anything," a slight belch and hint of lemony worms makes you at least give a slight pause.

[+imajeep]

So, is the problem micros, or lame hides? I know, I know; overwhelming chorus replies "It's micros, you fool!"

 

And I would agree that some of the lamest hides we have found in our brief caching career have been micros. But some of the most fun have been micros, and what they have in common is that they have all been very clever hides, which required a lot of thought and effort on the part of the cache owner. We'll do those any day.

Edited July 4, 2007 by imajeep

[+TrailGators]

This issue reminds me of an engineering company I formerly worked for, in which the project managers had to rate people's performance as to the degree they missed, met, or exceeded expectations. Turned out everyone exceeded expectations and to say that someone did an average job was construed as a negative rating.

That's how it is where I work.

 

The best way to implement a rating system that doesn't step on toes is to have a awards system. People pick their favorite caches and the results are tallied to show the consensus favorites. We have been doing this in San Diego and it works. Some people are trying harder to make the list. This has a positive influence on the game without any negative side effects.

[+Team GeoBlast]

I have the week off and the house to myself (offspring with the Ex at the beach this week), so I decided to hop in the car and go on a caching road trip to the SW corner of Virginia and the Eastern part of TN. Not too far from me, but far enough I wouldn't drive here all the time.

 

Spent the night before downloading the Pocket Queries to my GPS and the ebook to my mobile phone. Took off Sunday morning looking forward to some fun.

 

Loaded up a waypoint in my GPS, then got started. Found a couple, kept hitting "find next" after each successful find. Things were going great, until...

 

...I could take it no more. It was one mind numbing micro after another. I got to a point where I could tell who the owner of the cache was by the particular brand of micro container he was buying. I figured out another person by the total lack of creativity in his hides. Quantity was his goal, not quantity. One hide area dragged me thru the middle of an illegal dump, just off the interstate--just outside the 528' boundary for placing another cache (My GPS said that cache was .12 miles from the hide I where I was standing). From the hide, I could see the phone booth where someone else had also placed a micro. I didn't even bother looking for that one, I just took the DNF and moved on. As I was standing at a broken open electrical junction box (Yes, that was supposed to be where it was hidden, in or around a live junction box) in a shopping center, within eyesight of two other micros at opposite ends of the same shopping center, I finally had my fill.

 

Unfortunately, while making my pocket query, in my "youthfulness" as a cacher I did not attempt to filter out micros. Having no idea that almost every single one of these hides was a micro, I didn't know any better. With literally 2,000 waypoints in my PQ, and no way to sort them, I was drowning in them.

 

There were a handful of truly wonderful caches, however. There was a gorgeous virtual that took me to a 100 year old limestone bridge, a small container hide that brought me to a 150 year old church and spring, among many others. Hidden among the alphabet soup of micros under lamp skirts (I dodged more wasps than I ever care to admit) I found a few that made the trip worthwhile.

 

I hate to sound like some of the crotchety old timers that haunt this forum (never thought I would agree with them) but after spending 2 days sifting through micros, I'm not a big fan of them. I used to be indifferent, now I prefer to leave them alone.

 

Don't get me wrong. I enjoy a micro--when its placed somewhere that is enjoyable! I took a DNF on one this morning just off the Appalachian Trail in Virginia. Beautiful site, great hike to reach it. It stinks that I didn't find it, but I enjoyed myself completely. A local cacher in my area uses micros quite a bit, but they all seem to have a purpose, a nice location, or are the clue to a much larger container. Taking a DNF on a guardrail micro just doesn't give me the same feeling of appreciation.

 

I have no regrets, I learned what I enjoy and what I don't enjoy about this game. The numbers folks can have the micros, I suppose, I bear them no ill will. (And I highly recommend the Tri-Cities/Bristol/Abingdon, VA area for those folks, you'll be in heaven!)

 

Now if you'll excuse me, I received a shiny new Red Jeep TB in the mail yesterday, I have to scout out a few caches in the area worthy of its placement. I'm off all week, I think I can find a good place for her.

 

I'll value the customized filter on my Pocket Query builder from now on.

 

Cheers and thanks for the opportunity to share my travels.

 

[/rant]

[coldbeer]

 

Boy, this post sure hit home with me. First off, there nothing more sacred than free time to yourself to do as you please. Secondly, the frustration with hides that have no imagination.

 

My advice is to take those caches that you really enjoyed and cherish them just a little more now that you know the score. Write long logs, leave great stuff, do unsolicited maintenance on them and especially send a personal email to the owner that really when out of his or her way to entertain you. The faster you accept the fact these caches are special and increasingly not the norm the better. The reason you will keep caching is you know that there's more out there like this but you are going to have to develop your own skill and system on filtering them out.

 

Lastly, walk the talk. When you put out a geocache yourself remember how you felt running across the umpteenth film canister spaced 528 feet away. Ignore anyone who tells you that mediocrity is perfectly okay and you are wrong for expecting more.

[+Kiwi Nomad]

CITO!

[+Team GeoBlast]

I've taken the quality over quantity approach, and take the time to scan/read the logs to identify the caches that I would likely enjoy the most. It allows me to filter out the caches that I just don't like to do. Although there is certainly the possibility of skipping a great cache, I feel that I greatly increase the likelihood that the caches I do go after being enjoyable to me.

 

 

I take that approach to caching most often, but I am also an opportunist when I am traveling. I'm happy for ANY cache along the way.

 

 

I go to a lot of events and I will generally pass on most caches near my home unless the word of mouth is really good. It keeps me from getting burnt out and developing feelings of entitlement for my time and gas.

 

 

A cache is a cache is a cache. All the hider owes you or me is to have hidden the cache within the guidelines and to have final coords within 30ft (the most common error) or so of the actual cache. Nothing more.

 

 

If it wasn't for micros, skirt lifters, and wally world caches, I wouldn't have gotten a cache in every state I passed through (15) on my way to and from GW5.

 

 

If you (the royal you) EXPECT more than that, you will have problems enjoying yourself geocaching.

 

 

The hider doesn't OWE you some awesome adventure. They are participating in a game called geocaching where you use a GPSr to find something that has been hidden. They hid something to participate. Get it?

 

 

You choose to hunt caches. Caches don't hunt you. If most caches don't blow your skirt up as they don't with me, then modify your cachin' routine to fit your expectations better. Take responsibility for your own choices as most of the rest of the adult world does. You'll be much happier in the long run.....

 

Okay, so I invite you over for a delicious dinner and fine conversation. You ask if you need to bring anything, and I respond, "No, I wouldn't dream of it." Just bring your appetite! You ask what sort of meal I'm planning, because you don't want to be TOTALLY in the dark, and I let you know it's hard to describe, and I don't want to spoil the surprise, but it's somewhat akin to pasta.

 

I don't OWE you a great meal. And you've taken responsibility to come over and eat dinner. You could have said no, you have laundry to do. But you're a man of adventure and you decided to go for some good ol' GHH home cooking.

 

When you arrive, I let you know you're in for a special treat. I've specially prepared my secret recipe of Worms with Lemon Juice.

 

 

After being polite and swallowing a few bites without chewing, you mention how you had a late lunch and you're not real hungry. We end up having enjoyable conversation, though, and you leave with an overall impression that I'm a good person, but not necessarily a great cook.

 

Later, you happen to be on the internet and see a forum dedicated to cooking. There's a thread about awful meals, and though you post a response that states something along the lines of "the host doesn't OWE you anything," a slight belch and hint of lemony worms makes you at least give a slight pause.

 

This has got to be one of the best posts I've ever seen in any forum.

 

----Standing O----

[+Team GeoBlast]

So, is the problem micros, or lame hides? I know, I know; overwhelming chorus replies "It's micros, you fool!"

 

 

I dunno about that.

[+TrailGators]

I've taken the quality over quantity approach, and take the time to scan/read the logs to identify the caches that I would likely enjoy the most. It allows me to filter out the caches that I just don't like to do. Although there is certainly the possibility of skipping a great cache, I feel that I greatly increase the likelihood that the caches I do go after being enjoyable to me.

 

 

I take that approach to caching most often, but I am also an opportunist when I am traveling. I'm happy for ANY cache along the way.

 

 

I go to a lot of events and I will generally pass on most caches near my home unless the word of mouth is really good. It keeps me from getting burnt out and developing feelings of entitlement for my time and gas.

 

 

A cache is a cache is a cache. All the hider owes you or me is to have hidden the cache within the guidelines and to have final coords within 30ft (the most common error) or so of the actual cache. Nothing more.

 

 

If it wasn't for micros, skirt lifters, and wally world caches, I wouldn't have gotten a cache in every state I passed through (15) on my way to and from GW5.

 

 

If you (the royal you) EXPECT more than that, you will have problems enjoying yourself geocaching.

 

 

The hider doesn't OWE you some awesome adventure. They are participating in a game called geocaching where you use a GPSr to find something that has been hidden. They hid something to participate. Get it?

 

 

You choose to hunt caches. Caches don't hunt you. If most caches don't blow your skirt up as they don't with me, then modify your cachin' routine to fit your expectations better. Take responsibility for your own choices as most of the rest of the adult world does. You'll be much happier in the long run.....

 

Okay, so I invite you over for a delicious dinner and fine conversation. You ask if you need to bring anything, and I respond, "No, I wouldn't dream of it." Just bring your appetite! You ask what sort of meal I'm planning, because you don't want to be TOTALLY in the dark, and I let you know it's hard to describe, and I don't want to spoil the surprise, but it's somewhat akin to pasta.

 

I don't OWE you a great meal. And you've taken responsibility to come over and eat dinner. You could have said no, you have laundry to do. But you're a man of adventure and you decided to go for some good ol' GHH home cooking.

 

When you arrive, I let you know you're in for a special treat. I've specially prepared my secret recipe of Worms with Lemon Juice.

 

 

After being polite and swallowing a few bites without chewing, you mention how you had a late lunch and you're not real hungry. We end up having enjoyable conversation, though, and you leave with an overall impression that I'm a good person, but not necessarily a great cook.

 

Later, you happen to be on the internet and see a forum dedicated to cooking. There's a thread about awful meals, and though you post a response that states something along the lines of "the host doesn't OWE you anything," a slight belch and hint of lemony worms makes you at least give a slight pause.

 

This has got to be one of the best posts I've ever seen in any forum.

 

----Standing O----

That is funny!

[+rdaines]

I'm not a big micro fan, especially the micro in the woods thing and urban micros. That said, I can't just ignore all micros because to do, occassionally, run into a great one.

[+Astro_D]

Just recently, we have been running pocket queries that ignore any and all micro containers. We've been all the happier for it. Will we miss a great micro hide or two doing this? Sure, no doubt about it. But really, with working, a family and other responsibilities, I just don't have the time to sift through pages and pages of micro hides to find the one or two that may just stand out as being worthy of hunting.

[+Snoogans]

Later, you happen to be on the internet and see a forum dedicated to cooking. There's a thread about awful meals, and though you post a response that states something along the lines of "the host doesn't OWE you anything," a slight belch and hint of lemony worms makes you at least give a slight pause.

 

 

Hmmm, I've had plenty of bad meals and I've been to plenty of uninspired caches. The difference is that I save most of my harshest criticism for OFFline. I do this mostly to save the feelings of the person(s) involved. Plausable deniability is a good thing.

 

 

A home cooked meal analogy isn't really a good comparison for me. Most caches I've visited, I wasn't personally invited by the hider of that cache as I have been with every home cooked meal. I chose to hunt those caches on my own. And the caches that I was invited by the hider to hunt all happened to be quite good.

 

 

You can analogise all you want. It's really just whether or not you can accept your failure to have fun. In my case, it usually results in a drive bye before I ever get to a parking space. I rarely fail to have fun when I commit to a hunt. In fact, I can't remember being disappointed about having another log to sign (regardles of container size & quality) and I've only been truly disappointed about 1 virt that I recall.

 

 

I appreciate that others WANT to contribute this great game even if their contribution doesn't blow my skirt up. I'd rather have MORE choices than less in the long run.

 

 

I'd rather hold my tongue than discourage a willing participant that is hiding caches that meet the listed guidelines. Ya never know when they might snap to hiding something more inspired. I've seen it happen.

 

 

I'll watch the rest of the peanut gallery whine and complain about cache quality and comment my tired speech when I feel like posting it. Who knows which side of the fence does more good? From the bookmarks and comments on my own caches, I would venture to assert that I am leading by example.

[vtmtnman]

<snip>YKWs (you-know-whats). <snip>

I think I'm going to start a thread to document all of these TG acronyms.

[+VO2WW]

It's a hunt!!!!! As such you need to hunt, read the page, note the size, read the description, look at and study the logs, mull over it all, is the quarry worth your time? Look at some of the other hides by the owner, see if you have found any of them? If it seems like your kind of cache go for it, if not pass. Set your own crieteria for all caches you seek, remember you just dont' take a date to a restaurant because it's there if you want to have a memorable meal!!!! Be selective, play the game the way it gives you pleasure.

[+Tsmola]

Stuff like this is why I take my time to read through cache listings of the area I'll be visiting before I load anything. Photos and comments on cache pages can tell a lot about if a cache is worth it or not.

 

Does this take more time than simply loading every cache in the area you are visiting? Yes...

 

Does it cut down the number of caches you'll find in an area you don't typically visit? yes again...

 

I'd rather find a dozen great caches and avoid the 50 bad ones altogether than take a chance and just hope I get led to a good area. I only do this when I'm going on a long trip out of my home area. If I'm gonna spend time on a trip far from home caching I only wanna do good caches.

[+Googling Hrpty Hrrs]

I'll watch the rest of the peanut gallery whine and complain about cache quality and comment my tired speech when I feel like posting it.

 

I don't take any of this that seriously. Sure there's some folks that talk doom and gloom about lamp skirts, but most of us wouldn't ever even have occasion to mention our opinions about cache quality if we weren't visiting forums that are about all things geocaching.

 

Just to clarify-

 

1.) I've NEVER not had a good time when I've set out to geocache.

2.) I do log LPC's, and we're usually to be busy laughing about something else to even comment on the lameness or non-lameness of it.

3.) I fully accept my "failure to have fun", but see #1.

4.) I think a cache listing page IS an invitation from someone to hunt their cache.

5.) I've never called anyone out for a specific hide, and I have only seen a couple of instances ever on these forums where someone else did. I think it would be uncool if someone did do that.

6.) I think folks need to lighten up if it offends them that someone else says a film cannister is a poor container. Or that they don't like LPC's. If we were out caching, I'd be the first to tell them to shut up and let's have fun caching. But these are forums, and discussion about hiding techniques/containers/types/likes/dislikes is a very normal topic. If any of us are so thin-skinned that we take a critique about an inanimate object personally, we might need to rachet down our obsession level. We are not our caches. (notice in the analogy I stated you might not have liked the meal, but you'd think I was a swell guy. One of my very favorite cachers hides some sub-par caches by my estimation. I can like and appreciate the cacher and not love their caches.

7.) No comments or discussion in these forums affect my pleasure caching. They are two different activities.

 

AND BTW, the analogy was just for fun, anyway.

[+LaTuFu]

I am certainly not saying "its the micros, stupid" or anything like that. There were a couple of micros, like this one, that were well worth the effort, because they were unique or in a beautiful location. Spending the time looking for it was enjoyable because of the location. For me it was learning my own definition of "inspired hide".

 

Lifting a skirt on a light pole, wondering how many wasp's nests I'll disturb this time, just didn't have the same appeal to me after a while.

 

Don't get me wrong, the first day of the trip, it was fun pulling off the interstate here and there to find a hide within an easy distance of the car. But after a while that wore off and I started looking for more.

 

I learned more about what I don't enjoy, and thats not a bad thing. Even before I left on this trip, I had no plans to toss a film canister in a bush any time soon. The difficulty I am having placing my own caches is thinking of an area I would like to have someone visit to search for one, only to find that the veteran cachers in my area have already beaten me to it. There is a Wal-Mart without one down the road though...

 

Back to my original topic, this trip helped me develop my own tastes in what I enjoy about this game. That will be reflected in the caches I hunt in the future, as well as the ones I place for others at some point.

 

Going out to scratch a couple of DNFs off my list.

 

Happy 4th to all.

Edited July 4, 2007 by LaTuFu

[+Team GeoBlast]

 

I'd rather hold my tongue than discourage a willing participant that is hiding caches that meet the listed guidelines. Ya never know when they might snap to hiding something more inspired. I've seen it happen.

 

 

Is it divine intervention that we are hoping for? How exactly is that willing participant going to know any better unless they run across a good cross section of discussion on the issue? It's my hope that they would read threads like this and see that very few people like to hunt these types of caches and that every time someone states that "I'd rather find one good cache than 50 LPCs" that this would influence their hides.

 

What I struggle with is someone suggesting that someone has failed in anything, especially having fun.

[+wimseyguy]

It's a hunt!!!!! As such you need to hunt, read the page, note the size, read the description, look at and study the logs, mull over it all, is the quarry worth your time? Look at some of the other hides by the owner, see if you have found any of them? If it seems like your kind of cache go for it, if not pass. Set your own crieteria for all caches you seek, remember you just dont' take a date to a restaurant because it's there if you want to have a memorable meal!!!! Be selective, play the game the way it gives you pleasure.

 

One of the wisest posts I have ever read in these forums. I very rarely agree with anything here 100%.

And I gather by the OP's tone and follow up post that he did learn and develop his MO as his day/weekend progressed. I live close enough to his road trip area that I was able to correctly guess of few of the hiders of some of his finds, and probably ID which made him smile and which ones he drove past on day 2.

 

I've got several caching road trips coming up. Each time I head out and press find I have a different agenda and motivation for the day. I've already started reading the cache pages near my destination to get a feel for who hides what. Anything I pick up along the route in order just to add another Delorme page to the map, or color in a new state will just be groovy gravy.

[+TrailGators]

Hmmm, I've had plenty of bad meals and I've been to plenty of uninspired caches. The difference is that I save most of my harshest criticism for OFFline. I do this mostly to save the feelings of the person(s) involved. Plausable deniability is a good thing.

I'm kind of the opposite. I use the forums as a sounding board. However, over time I have softened my language. I hope calling caches that are not fun to find "YKWs" is more palatable.

[+TrailGators]

<snip>YKWs (you-know-whats). <snip>

I think I'm going to start a thread to document all of these TG acronyms.

[+fatblokecaver]

Even in England we get fed up with the micro rash that seems to be sweeping this nation. As I usually take my 2 adopted children caching with me they want the swapsies and goodies as well as TBs and coins in regular size caches. It is more fun.

Large caches for ever.

 

FBC

[+Snoogans]

I'd rather hold my tongue than discourage a willing participant that is hiding caches that meet the listed guidelines. Ya never know when they might snap to hiding something more inspired. I've seen it happen.

 

Is it divine intervention that we are hoping for? How exactly is that willing participant going to know any better unless they run across a good cross section of discussion on the issue? It's my hope that they would read threads like this and see that very few people like to hunt these types of caches and that every time someone states that "I'd rather find one good cache than 50 LPCs" that this would influence their hides.

 

 

I anticipated this type of response to my post. I even had an idea who might post it. That's whyyy I posted this:

 

 

I'll watch the rest of the peanut gallery whine and complain about cache quality and comment my tired speech when I feel like posting it. Who knows which side of the fence does more good? From the bookmarks and comments on my own caches, I would venture to assert that I am leading by example.

 

 

Frankly, this particular forum has a bad reputation with most cachers I meet (and I've met THOUSANDS) for negativity. As a cross section of local geocaching continuums go, very few brave the waters here. Other than the coin forum, I am the ONLY person from my local geocaching continuum who participates here regularly. A few others dip their toe in from time to time, but most describe this forum in terms of ickyness.

 

 

What I struggle with is someone suggesting that someone has failed in anything, especially having fun.

 

 

I'll draw a better picture.

 

 

99.999% of geocachers go geocaching for fun. It's what they CHOOSE to do with their quality time and expendable resources such as gas and batteries, etc.

 

 

If you choose to do an activity for fun and then you don't end up with the result you set out for, ummm, you've failed to attain your goal.

 

 

In business I learned a valuable lesson about failure that I apply to those that work under me. It goes like this: "It's either training or attitude." After 10 years in middle management, whenever there has been a problem with an employee, it has ALWAYS been one of those two things. Always.

 

 

Since we can assume that most people KNOW how to have fun, what we're left with in the geocaching context is NOT a training issue.

 

 

If you head out for any cache with an air of entitlement and an unhealthy dose of expectation, you're gonna fail more often than not UNLESS you do extensive research and CHOOSE your cache hunts wisely.

 

 

It's your quality time and your resources you choose to spend on geocaching. What I struggle with is someone suggesting they are owed anything more than a log to sign and a cache hidden within posted guidelines when they hunt a cache.

 

 

 

"Failure is a hard pill to swallow until you realize the only failure you can really have in this sport is the failure to enjoy yourself."

TotemLake 4/26/04

 

 

Okay, how many of you just KNEW I was gonna post that quote?

[CoyoteRed]

In business I learned a valuable lesson about failure that I apply to those that work under me. It goes like this: "It's either training or attitude." After 10 years in middle management, whenever there has been a problem with an employee, it has ALWAYS been one of those two things. Always.

ROFL!

 

Was that "training or attitude" of only the employee or does that include the supervisor, as well?

 

Have you ever run into a situation where some employees have either quite or asked for reassignment and the exit interviews show the problem is actually with the supervisor? I've seen it.

 

Of course, I guess an "improper attitude" could include not being able to handle ineptitude, incompetence, bullying, or a whole host of other undesirable traits in a supervisor. But then again, it's never the supervisor's fault. Right?

[+Snoogans]

In business I learned a valuable lesson about failure that I apply to those that work under me. It goes like this: "It's either training or attitude." After 10 years in middle management, whenever there has been a problem with an employee, it has ALWAYS been one of those two things. Always.

ROFL!

 

Was that "training or attitude" of only the employee or does that include the supervisor, as well?

 

Have you ever run into a situation where some employees have either quite or asked for reassignment and the exit interviews show the problem is actually with the supervisor? I've seen it.

 

Of course, I guess an "improper attitude" could include not being able to handle ineptitude, incompetence, bullying, or a whole host of other undesirable traits in a supervisor. But then again, it's never the supervisor's fault. Right?

 

I guess I'm failing to see your point. I was talking about geocaching. I used outside experience to illustrate my point. What are you talking about?