Cheaters out there! What should be done?

January 7, 2007

While logging some finds from today I noticed that several of the caches were from the same person. (Nothing unusual yet.) As I was looking at their profile I noticed that they have placed 22 caches around in a relatively small area. (still nothing unusual) However this member has then went back and logged their own caches as FINDS to obviously raise their totals!!!!!!! What can be done if anything with these cheaters?

22k · January 7, 2007

What can be done if anything with these cheaters?

Place difficult caches. Make them work for it.

January 7, 2007

Your knowledge of their behavior is all you really need to know.

8.4k · January 7, 2007

Nothing at all.

Why tax a braincell to worry about something that has no real affect upon your own game?

January 7, 2007

one thing ive noticed is some of the first cachers in MN used to do that because well there werent really that many caches to find although now they have stopped i used to do it too but this is how i figured it i went out and hid the cache then i will go back to find it i think thats ok if you want to do that but if you feel serious about your stats dont do it. i have stopped because now i feel serious about my stats

9.2k · January 7, 2007

While logging some finds from today I noticed that several of the caches were from the same person. (Nothing unusual yet.) As I was looking at their profile I noticed that they have placed 22 caches around in a relatively small area. (still nothing unusual) However this member has then went back and logged their own caches as FINDS to obviously raise their totals!!!!!!! What can be done if anything with these cheaters?

Find counts are a tally, not a score. Since someone else's tally has no effect on you or anyone else, how is it "cheating"?

For all you know, this "person" is actually a team, and the caches were place by one member, and found by another.

My suggestion? Find something worthwhile to worry about. Try global warming.

22k · January 7, 2007

Whew, must be Saturday night down on the farm tonight.

January 7, 2007

on global warming they never talk about the south pole and if its true cant we just stop it by planting trees

January 7, 2007

While logging some finds from today I noticed that several of the caches were from the same person. (Nothing unusual yet.) As I was looking at their profile I noticed that they have placed 22 caches around in a relatively small area. (still nothing unusual) However this member has then went back and logged their own caches as FINDS to obviously raise their totals!!!!!!! What can be done if anything with these cheaters?

Find counts are a tally, not a score. Since someone else's tally has no effect on you or anyone else, how is it "cheating"?

For all you know, this "person" is actually a team, and the caches were place by one member, and found by another.

My suggestion? Find something worthwhile to worry about. Try global warming.

Tally... Score...Same thing. The point is this member is not being honest with their finds. And I'm not worried about it. However I WOULD worry about global warming if it actually existed.

38.2k · January 7, 2007

I say let's beat them up!

1.2k · January 7, 2007

While logging some finds from today I noticed that several of the caches were from the same person. (Nothing unusual yet.) As I was looking at their profile I noticed that they have placed 22 caches around in a relatively small area. (still nothing unusual) However this member has then went back and logged their own caches as FINDS to obviously raise their totals!!!!!!! What can be done if anything with these cheaters?

Here's the real questions: Did you have fun today? Did you see things today that you normally wouldn't have seen? Did you find new and interesting places?

If you answered yes to any of those questions you're ahead of the game.

Keep in mind, if you've noticed this trend, I'm sure others in your area have noticed it too. So whose fooling who?

See the Sights, Find Some Caches, Have Fun, Make some good friends along the way.

Edited January 7, 2007 by ekitt10

January 7, 2007

or make them eat eggplant, same thing in my book.

3.5k · January 7, 2007

Ask them about it at an event. Maybe they have a logical explaination. Problably they don't, but it would be fun to watch them squirm.

9.1k · January 7, 2007

Put the geocacher on a scale and see if he or she weighs more than a duck.

We did that once. But then we had to get rid of the duck.

1.2k · January 7, 2007

Put the geocacher on a scale and see if he or she weighs more than a duck.

We did that once. But then we had to get rid of the duck.

BTW I want my duck back!!

8.4k · January 7, 2007

I say let's beat them up!

NOPE. I say we put them in one of those death helmet traps like in Saw and then feed the key to their dog.

9.1k · January 7, 2007

Put the geocacher on a scale and see if he or she weighs more than a duck.

We did that once. But then we had to get rid of the duck.

BTW I want my duck back!!

The duck has been archived. If I were to send you another duck, it would be a moving archived "pocket duck."

And THAT would be cheating.

January 7, 2007

No matter how many finds one makes or does not make, there is no prize other than personal satisfaction. Who cares if another pads his or her finds? It has nothing to do with you or me. The numbers do not hold any value at all. Relax and enjoy your own game.

10.2k · January 7, 2007

My suggestion? Find something worthwhile to worry about. Try global warming.

I'm responsible. I was cleaning out the closet in the bathroom late last summer, and I emptied like 25 aerosol cans into the atmosphere out in the backyard. I'm very sorry for this, but Mrs. Urkel really wanted that closet cleaned out. And the town really wanted the cans empty before I put them in the recycling bin.

That really didn't happen though. As far as the cheater, like someone else said, make a mental note to yourself that they are a cheater, and umm, I guess that's about it.

Edited January 7, 2007 by TheWhiteUrkel

2k · January 7, 2007

My suggestion? Find something worthwhile to worry about. Try global warming.

I'm responsible. I was cleaning out the closet in the bathroom late last summer, and I emptied like 25 aerosol cans into the atmosphere out in the backyard. I'm very sorry for this, but Mrs. Urkel really wanted that closet cleaned out. And the town really wanted the cans empty before I put them in the recycling bin.

That really didn't happen though. As far as the cheater, like someone else said, make a mental note to yourself that they are a cheater, and umm, I guess that's about it.

Careful Urk, KB is gonna sue you for their losses this year.

But I must say, you have the most colorful back yard in the area.

On topic, not a thing you can do. Just have fun with your own caching.

The numbers have a net worth of...well...zero.

January 7, 2007

What can be done if anything with these cheaters?

Hunt them down and kill them.

Nothing can be done. What you need to ask yourself is what makes you happy in this hobby. If the thrill of looking/hiding caches, looking at beautiful sights, and learning something interesting then great. Don't worry about the cheaters. If you happen to find someone cheating one of your caches, then delete thier find and move on.

4.5k · January 7, 2007

Can't for the life of me figure out why a person would ever want to log their own cache but i know it does happen. I like to look at stats sometimes, so i don't care for the practice at all since i know their numbers are incorrect. But, its not something to get worked up over either. You can keep this person in mind for those rare occasions when a stat comparison conversation comes up. Except for that, i wouldn't worry about it none!

2.2k · January 7, 2007

it's ok they have been noted and they wont get the prize that the rest of us will when we get to 500 caches....

5.3k · January 7, 2007

No matter how many finds one makes or does not make, there is no prize other than personal satisfaction.

Oh, really?

How about this?

Or this?

Those are only a few examples of the many, many prizes that are given by various organizations for people who achieve a specific number of finds.

If that's not enough, take a look at the literally hundreds of "congratulations" threads in the various regional forums.

Personally, I don't cache for the numbers, and it doesn't ruin the game for me that other people cheat. Eliminates any respect I had for them, sure. But doesn't cause me to lose a wink of sleep.

But claiming that there is no reward for cheating is, in my opinion, absurd. If there were no reward, people wouldn't do it.

Edited January 7, 2007 by fizzymagic

1.2k · January 7, 2007

My suggestion? Find something worthwhile to worry about. Try global warming.

Said using a computer-enabled message, powered by a huge fossil fuel-burning powerplant some place where we can forget about it.

(back on topic) Sure, they logged their own finds. I just hope that doesn't knock the fun out of it for them and make them stop playing altogether.

January 7, 2007

Reading the OPs log, I wondered if he/she had sent a nicely worded email to the cache hider suggesting to him/her that it was considered bad form to get a smiley for finding caches that they actually hid. I've done that in the past and in all cases the hider was not aware it was considered a faux pas. I would suggest that the OP send the message and then FUGGEDABOUDIT!

9.3k · January 7, 2007

No matter how many finds one makes or does not make, there is no prize other than personal satisfaction.

What?! No Prize!? Say it ain't so!

Back on topic: Cheating, by it's very definition, implies breaking the rules. Since this game has no rules, cheating is a misnomer.

If that doesn't cut it for you, then hunt them down and do nasty things to them with blunt objects and breakfast cereals.

2k · January 7, 2007

I haven't seen this mentioned, but certainly it could be a case of a legit find followed by a later adoption. Nothing wrong with that.

I like seeing cheaters like this - it gives others something to gossip about and make fun of the person behind their back. Good clean fun. (like the guy who after archiving his caches logs a find on them "I found this to be missing so I'm archiving")

38.2k · January 7, 2007

No matter how many finds one makes or does not make, there is no prize other than personal satisfaction.

Oh, really?

How about this?

Or this?

Or this?

Those are only a few examples of the many, many prizes that are given by various organizations for people who achieve a specific number of finds.

If that's not enough, take a look at the literally hundreds of "congratulations" threads in the various regional forums.

Personally, I don't cache for the numbers, and it doesn't ruin the game for me that other people cheat. Eliminates any respect I had for them, sure. But doesn't cause me to lose a wink of sleep.

But claiming that there is no reward for cheating is, in my opinion, absurd. If there were no reward, people wouldn't do it.

Exactly. Outside the material rewards that FizzyM pointed out (and I've personally seen gifts given to people who reach a certain number of finds), there is also the "prestige" that comes with being a high numbers cacher. When they arrive at events they are often greeted as celebrities. People jocky to meet them and have their photos taken with them, or point them out with awe tinged whispers.

This kind of attention is attractive to the kind of person who was the last one picked when choosing sides for basketball, or who couldn't get a date for the prom. They can suddenly be "somebody" simply by submitting phony found it logs. As FizzyM stated, people wouldn't cheat if there wasn't a reward (real or perceived).

Who cares if another pads his or her finds? It has nothing to do with you or me.

I reject the notion that cheating at this sport doesn't affect others. Logging finds on your own caches doesn't hurt anything but your own credibility, but logging phony finds on other's caches can absolutely impact others.

When you log a find on a cache, you are essentially telling the community that the cache is there. I know of a geocacher who was lured into a fruitless 100 mile round trip to go afer a cache long thought missing, because someone logged a phony found it. I've personally wasted my time and gas searching for a cache that was missing because finders lied about actually finding it. I didn't think it was funny.

Phony finds can also cause a cache owner to put off a needed maintenance check. I had a cache that had several DNFs. I was ready to go out and check it when a Found It popped up. I was ready to forget about the maint trip, but something in the log made me think that maybe the cache hadn't been found, so I went out there and discovered the cache had fallen from its hiding place making it nearly impossible to find. Had the log been worded a bit differently I would have put off the maintenance and others would have wasted their time looking for the cache.

Wasting the precious time of others is not harmless fun.

January 7, 2007

I stand most humbly corrected! To think that some one would give me a $5 trinket for simply finding a given cache has made me dizzy with anticipation! Why, I have discovered that there are actually caches with a grand prize of $160! I am seriously considering going pro. All that and adulation too? Oh the wonder of it all!

I agree that when cachers post bogus finds it does delay the cacher owner from knowing that the cache is missing.

However, in my recent admittedly limited experience, cachers in my geographical area LOATH to post DNF's. (it appears that this is somehow an affront to their manhood) This has lead to at least two of my caches to be missing for some time before I was aware that they were missing. In addition I have had at least three instances personally where I alerted the owner of caches I found that the cache was damaged, moldy, smelly and generally decimated. In not ONE of those three cases has the cache been archived or replaced and continue to grow strange species of mold and no doubt cultivate antibiotic resistant bacterium to this very day.

I was complacent and believed that was just just the way life had to be, but you have opened my eyes!Perhaps the time has come to institute fines and if necessary jail time for those black hearted souls who insist on sullying our sport with cheating? Recruit and train Cache Police? This is a far more pressing concern than say that global warming nonsense!

Edited January 7, 2007 by Team Rat Pack (led by Miss Bi)

7.2k · January 7, 2007

This kind of attention is attractive to the kind of person who was the last one picked when choosing sides for basketball, or who couldn't get a date for the prom.

What I find disturbing is the fact these folks get the glory while the folks who put forth the effort to place fantastic caches get an "eh." It seems the geocaching community would rather celebrate the person who can eat the most hotdogs in a minute than the person who can create a meal so good that you remember it for the rest of your life.

6.5k · January 7, 2007

While logging some finds from today I noticed that several of the caches were from the same person. (Nothing unusual yet.) As I was looking at their profile I noticed that they have placed 22 caches around in a relatively small area. (still nothing unusual) However this member has then went back and logged their own caches as FINDS to obviously raise their totals!!!!!!! What can be done if anything with these cheaters?

Require them to bring a shrubbery to the next event!

8.4k · January 7, 2007

This kind of attention is attractive to the kind of person who was the last one picked when choosing sides for basketball, or who couldn't get a date for the prom.

What I find disturbing is the fact these folks get the glory while the folks who put forth the effort to place fantastic caches get an "eh." It seems the geocaching community would rather celebrate the person who can eat the most hotdogs in a minute than the person who can create a meal so good that you remember it for the rest of your life.

I totally disagree with CR. Go figure.

I have placed some great caches (Back, meet Pat) for which I receive ample props from finders and those who someday wish to find one of my better hides. Of course, I'm also a shameless self promoter who talks to himself in 3rd person, so maybe that helps out a bit.....

I do not feel any less of a cacher when hanging out with cachers with finds in the multiple thousands and/or hides in the hundreds. Nor, do I question how they achieved their stats.

My pursuit of quality is its own reward. I have no need to look down upon others to feel satisfied with how I play at this activity. 475 Finds in just under 4 years & 47 hides and proud of it.

7.3k · January 7, 2007

Put the geocacher on a scale and see if he or she weighs more than a duck.

We did that once. But then we had to get rid of the duck.

BTW I want my duck back!!

The duck has been archived. If I were to send you another duck, it would be a moving archived "pocket duck."

And THAT would be cheating.

January 7, 2007

While logging some finds from today I noticed that several of the caches were from the same person. (Nothing unusual yet.) As I was looking at their profile I noticed that they have placed 22 caches around in a relatively small area. (still nothing unusual) However this member has then went back and logged their own caches as FINDS to obviously raise their totals!!!!!!! What can be done if anything with these cheaters?

Find counts are a tally, not a score. Since someone else's tally has no effect on you or anyone else, how is it "cheating"?

For all you know, this "person" is actually a team, and the caches were place by one member, and found by another.

My suggestion? Find something worthwhile to worry about. Try global warming.

Tally... Score...Same thing. The point is this member is not being honest with their finds. And I'm not worried about it. However I WOULD worry about global warming if it actually existed.

it's 83 degrees here in florida today, it's been about 5 degrees above normal all winter. what do you call that?

10.2k · January 7, 2007

I haven't seen this mentioned, but certainly it could be a case of a legit find followed by a later adoption. Nothing wrong with that.

I like seeing cheaters like this - it gives others something to gossip about and make fun of the person behind their back. Good clean fun.

Yeah, what could be funner? Although I earlier said "make a mental note to yourself that they are a cheater, and that's about it", feel free, while out on a group caching outing, to bash them to no end to your friends, calling them such names as Knucklehead and Dirtbag.

9.3k · January 7, 2007

This kind of attention is attractive to the kind of person who was the last one picked when choosing sides for basketball,

You just described me to a "T". Does this mean I get to log finds on all my hides?

I know of a geocacher who was lured into a fruitless 100 mile round trip to go after a cache long thought missing, because someone logged a phony found it. I've personally wasted my time and gas searching for a cache that was missing because finders lied about actually finding it.

I tend to see things from a slightly different perspective. (go figure )

I would never consider a 100 mile cache hunt to be fruitless. I'm out geocaching, so whether or not I actually find something, my quest still beats a day spent in a Lazy-Boy. Every minute of every day, each cache has a chance of getting muggled. I would never conceive of following advice from a "found it" log written an hour ago, (or a week ago/a month ago/etc), to determine that the cache would still be there when I arrived. With the exception of the occasional lay mass micro that slipped through my personal filters, I've thoroughly enjoyed every cache hunt I've been on, even those that end in a DNF. None of them were a waste of my time.

If you rely on the logs of others to determine your actions, then yes, a bogus log could affect you. If you don't, then it can't.

Edited January 7, 2007 by Clan Riffster

2.5k · January 7, 2007

I reject the notion that cheating at this sport doesn't affect others. Logging finds on your own caches doesn't hurt anything but your own credibility, but logging phony finds on other's caches can absolutely impact others.

No matter what the logs may say, or not say the cache may or may not be there.

The cache could have gone missing after it was found; it could also have been there and not found by a person (or twenty) who looked for it. There is no way to know how many people look for a cache, don't find it, and never DNF the cache. Any cache could have had twenty people at it who never log online since the last online log. Those people could have found it, or not and we'll never know.

I'm always amazed by people who say they filter out caches that have "x number of DNFs" or that haven't been found "recently"--There are certainly plenty of caches that are only found once every blue moon, and all it takes is for one group of five to visit a cache and not find it, but each log an individual DNF to "disqualify" a cache from that person's PQ.

I'm not suggesting that anyone should deliberately mislead anyone else, just saying that for anyone to expect that the online logs in any way reflect the whole history of a cache is naïve at best.

January 7, 2007

don't worry about it, just line 'em up against a wall and shoot them - and whoever brought it up and is responsible for the waste of good ammunition

2.2k · January 7, 2007

While logging some finds from today I noticed that several of the caches were from the same person. (Nothing unusual yet.) As I was looking at their profile I noticed that they have placed 22 caches around in a relatively small area. (still nothing unusual) However this member has then went back and logged their own caches as FINDS to obviously raise their totals!!!!!!! What can be done if anything with these cheaters?

Checking some logs I see that this person took a relative to find the caches and logged them as finds herself. I doubt that this was some devious scheme to raise her find count. Here's what you should do: Delete all your finds of her caches in protest. Write to the forums to tell everyone how indignant you are. OH, wait, you already did that part.)

Today I found a cache hidden by a new member and when I went to log it noticed that he had entered a "found" log to record a Green Jeep TB drop. Here's what I did: I wrote a log note welcoming him to the game, thanking him for placing the cache, and thanking him for dropping the TB in it. That's all. Eventually he may realize he made a mistake and change his entry. Or not. As far as I'm concerned he did the most important stuff exactly right.

38.2k · January 7, 2007

No matter what the logs may say, or not say the cache may or may not be there.

The cache could have gone missing after it was found...

Quite true, caches can go missing after they are found. Its a chance we all take, but the I think ithe idea that someone would deliberately mislead their fellow geocachers is reprehensible. Apparently some people are fine with it.

Edited January 8, 2007 by briansnat

10.1k · January 8, 2007

Well, OP's question was about hiders who log their own caches. There are many cachers who are unaware of what other cachers consider inappropriate. On rare occasion, I have e-mailed such an owner to note that that is usually considered inappropriate. Usually a cache owner who I know. Usually, the find is changed to a note.

One can play the game anyway one wants to, I guess. But some players, in doing so, earn disrespect from their fellow players. Then again, usually, they don't care!

We're still following the saga of the player with thousands of finds who visited a distant city, and logged forty finds in one day. Oddly, the cache owners who checked the logs (and that would account for more than half the logged finds) discovered that this player had neglected to sign any of the logs. How many of those thousands of 'finds' has this player actually found? This player might be respected in his/her own state, but has earned disrespect in the distant city.

How does this affect my playing of the game? Not much, outside of reminding me that geocachers are human. Some of them lie, just because they can. Okay, they're obviosuly not playing the same game as I am, but that's their problem.

January 8, 2007

And as the thread goes off on a different tangent....

The OP asked about a cache owner posting finds on their own caches.

Me, I dont care either way, my family & I actually have a lil thing going which is killing me as I've hidden 3 finds to none for most of the others. (shrug) But then again its only family.

I already know by word of mouth (putting it politely) that there are people who geocache that pad their numbers by various means but are 'still worshipped for being such _great geocachers_'

I just snort to myself & remind myself they are fools & jerks. Then again I dont care to be around certain groups of people for various reasons, doesnt matter if its number padding, not logging or removing DNFs, being FTF hounds, being number hounds.

We do this as we can, if that means we go several weeks without a cache lookie then so be it, sorry but this is truely a hobby for us, a fun repose, & something that can be done when we feel like it & have the time.

I'm actually thinking about going back to my (currently) placed 3 caches & logging finds on them just so our stats all match up online. Since I'm the premie member & run the stats counter I think it might make more sense. But then again I dont think I'm going to place 100 or more caches either, or even 50, 25 maybe but even thats a stretch for a area with a lot of the great views already taken & just plain old woodland to look at. (shrugs)

I wouldnt worry about what others do, think or even say as it doesnt really matter in the end what they think as their opinions are mostly irrevelent, its up to you how you want to do a game/hobby within the little bit of rules GS has set out at this time.

1.8k · January 8, 2007

You could make them read this thread then require an essay on sarcasm.

9.3k · January 8, 2007

I think ithe idea that someone would deliberately mislead thier fellow geocachers is reprehensible. Apparently some people are fine with it.

I don't think anybody who has replied to this thread OK with the practice of intentionally deceiving others. I know I'm not OK with it. I just don't get worked up about it. It doesn't affect me. Why would I want to get all riled up about such a trivial issue? Personally, I won't do this, and I might roll my eyes at those who do, but I'm not ready to break out the torches & pitchforks.

With just a few mouse clicks, and some fairly simple code, Jeremy could alter the programing so that logging your own cache, and/or logging a given cache more than once would be a thing of the past. He hasn't done so, nor has he written any "rules" prohibiting the practice. Thus, it remains a grey area for me. Deliberetly lying about finds you've never even searched for is a whole different topic.

(Sorry about the spelling. This PC doesn't do spellcheck)

1.2k · January 8, 2007

it's 83 degrees here in florida today, it's been about 5 degrees above normal all winter. what do you call that?

I call it sun spots. It's freezing cold here in Southern California, and it's usually about 83 degrees in the winter. What do you call that? :anicute:

9.2k · January 8, 2007

While logging some finds from today I noticed that several of the caches were from the same person. (Nothing unusual yet.) As I was looking at their profile I noticed that they have placed 22 caches around in a relatively small area. (still nothing unusual) However this member has then went back and logged their own caches as FINDS to obviously raise their totals!!!!!!! What can be done if anything with these cheaters?

Find counts are a tally, not a score. Since someone else's tally has no effect on you or anyone else, how is it "cheating"?

For all you know, this "person" is actually a team, and the caches were place by one member, and found by another.

My suggestion? Find something worthwhile to worry about. Try global warming.

Tally... Score...Same thing. The point is this member is not being honest with their finds. And I'm not worried about it. However I WOULD worry about global warming if it actually existed.

No, the point is, they aren't the same thing. Nobody ever sang "Hey, Mister Score Man, Score Me Some Bananas".

January 8, 2007

Can't for the life of me figure out why a person would ever want to log their own cache but i know it does happen. I like to look at stats sometimes, so i don't care for the practice at all since i know their numbers are incorrect. But, its not something to get worked up over either. You can keep this person in mind for those rare occasions when a stat comparison conversation comes up. Except for that, i wouldn't worry about it none!

I log my own Waymarks, but I agree about caches. There's no challenge in finding my own cache.

6.1k · January 8, 2007

While logging some finds from today I noticed that several of the caches were from the same person. (Nothing unusual yet.) As I was looking at their profile I noticed that they have placed 22 caches around in a relatively small area. (still nothing unusual) However this member has then went back and logged their own caches as FINDS to obviously raise their totals!!!!!!! What can be done if anything with these cheaters?

I know of an elderly cacher who logs a "find" on his own cache when he checks on it. He is not intentionally cheating, he is just being himself. There are plenty of new cachers that log finds on their own caches - only because they dont know any better. I dont care for "cheaters" myself, but to publicly point them out and yell: CHEATER CHEATER, is much worse than the actual "cheating" in most cases. If someone purposely abuses the system,then send a note to Groundspeak and have them worry about it.

January 8, 2007

:huh: Hi everyone. My wife and I are new to this sport and thought we'd come in to check out the forums. Glad to see your a lively bunch. :anicute: Oh yeah while all you were writing back and forth we went out night caching and found four tonight. This is a blast!!! It's something that both me and my wife are having a hoot doing together. Can't beat that. I've found places only miles from where I live that I never knew existed, and the ideas that people come up with when hiding their caches. Fantastic.

We look forward to meeting some of you if you can tear yourselves away from this thread and come out. We drive a 89Cherokee four wheel drive. It's got six inches of lift with a big winch on the front. If you see it come over and say hi.

Jim & Pam Briar, 2-4-Fun :wub: :wub:

Cheaters out there! What should be done?

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