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"couldn't Sign Wet Logbook"


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One of my caches had several DNFs in a row, my guess is cachers put it back in the wrong spot. Anyway, a couple days ago someone logged it saying they found it but couldn't sign it because of a wet log. Following this log, 4 other people claimed finds saying they couldn't sign it because of a wet log. After these logs another person logged a DNF on it. This all happened in the course of a couple days and I haven't been able to get out and replace it yet.

 

I don't know if these people really found the cache or just claimed a find for the find count. These are the option s I figure I have:

 

1. Don't let it bother me and just let them be number hogs or just believe that they did find it.

2. Delete the logs, replace the logbook, and if they have a fit, tell them to go back and find the cache and sign it this time. If they really care about the find they'll do that.

 

Of course I'm going to go replace the log as soon as I find time to. I know it might not seem like a big deal, but it's just been bugging me the past few days and I'd like your opinions on what you'd do in a situation like this.

 

Thanks for your answers.

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What?? They didn't have anything to write their name on? A scrap piece of paper? A dollar? Anything?

Sorry, no signature, no find. I would have sent them an explanation and then deleted it.

 

Without cache owners sticking to the basic requirements of claiming a find, this is exactly what you get with the recent downward spiral of caching ethics and pumped-up numbers. Cache owners ALLOWING others to play it 'loose and fast' have brought this current situation down upon themselves.

Keep your caches straight, I say! Don't be afraid to use that 'delete log' option...it's there for a reason!

 

Again, no signature, no find. Delete. Simple.

Edited by TEAM 360
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Disable the cache and consider the finds valid. Especially if you find a wet logbokk.

I agree with this action.

 

If this still bugs you afterwards, write down their names somewhere for reference. You might get lucky and catch them "in the act" in the future, and that'll make for some good mockery. :laughing:

 

I usually keep a receipt or two from restaurants when I go caching. It has proved useful on a few occasions.

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I've found logs to wet to sign. I replace them if I can. I this case, just let it go. Check your cache and replace the log when you can.

The owner's failure to properly maintain the cache shouldn't prevent me from logging a find. Personally, I had a situation just yesterday with a log too wet to sign. As a matter of fact, it had been logged similarly about a week or so back, and still the owner hadn't replaced it or posted anything about it. When I looked up the owner's profile, I found out they live in California and this is an Alaskan cache, somewhat remote even. What happened to having caches removed if you aren't close enough to maintain them?

 

In this instance, I also took a photo of the cache to post in my log to prove my find.

Edited by TheManInStripes
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Oh, silly. Most geocachers do not bring Sharpies with them! That would seem to imply an intent to sign the container, rather than the log book, wouldn't it?

What surprises me is the number of cachers who do not have writing implements with them!

What I do with 'log too wet to sign' is to sign a piece of paper, and put it in with the log (also works on 'log book full'.)

Of course, I'm silly enough to run out at the next opportunity (within two weeks, usually), to check on caches which have problems logged. Log too wet to sign? I'd replace that quickly.

Allow the log, and replace the log book/page as soon as you can.

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The owner's failure to properly maintain the cache shouldn't prevent me from logging a find.

 

....what about THE CACHERS responsibility to make sure their name gets in that cache as proof positive they were actually there? Shouldn't be too hard to find SOMETHING to write on, paper, McDonalds wrapper, something, anything...

 

 

edited to generalize...

Edited by TEAM 360
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Actually, looking at the logs, it looks like this was group of cachers (one of which was only one year old)

 

Only a year old and they already know how to work a GPS and find a cache? :laughing:

Man, parents don't waste any time these days.... <_<

 

Sorry, couldn't resist...

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The owner's failure to properly maintain the cache shouldn't prevent me from logging a find.

 

....what about THE CACHERS responsibility to make sure their name gets in that cache as proof positive they were actually there? Shouldn't be too hard to find SOMETHING to write on, paper, McDonalds wrapper, something, anything...

 

 

edited to generalize...

 

Chill_Pill.mbe.jpg

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We also carry cache repair supplies. If nothing else we'd rip a piece of paper out of a notebook or something to leave.

 

OTOH, we also stamp our finds. We found a wet and frozen log once. It took the stamp and though it ran a little it was recognizable.

 

I don't know that signing the logbook is an absolute must as in some cases it's not possible. Some sort of verification is a must, though, and the provided verification method is what needs to be used.

 

Did that make sense? If logbook is available and signable you must sign it. If logbook is not signable you must leave some sort of verification that is similar in nature. In other words, don't sign the dagburn container. Leave a piece of paper, a new log, or something along the same lines.

 

PS: it helps to carry a space pen or similar instrument to sign damp logbooks. It's just a good practice.

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Hey, Anonymous'...how you been? Long time no see.

LOL hi, I've been fine. How bout you?

 

Back on topic, it's a tough decision to make. Usually I carry around some paper or cache pages that i can write a note on and leave in the cache. Even if the paper gets wet the cache owner should be able to make out what you write. A find where you don't sign the logbook or have some verification doesn't constitute as a find in my mind.

 

Over the past couple years I've noticed that with the increase of Geocachers and Geocaches, questionable practices have come around. New ways of showing that they were there (as in recent topics :laughing:) and claiming finds for caches that they didn't really find or logging finds on a cache multiple times.

 

This sport shouldn't be about the numbers, but it seems to have evolved into that and it disappoints me. I cache because I have fun doing it and I know most people do, they just get into competitions with other cachers leading to questionable caching.

 

I am going to think about what action I should take on the wet logbook finds and I will tell you guys what my decision is tomorrow.

Edited by Anonymous'
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In case anyone is wondering about some of the creative ways people have come up with "proof of visits" in this thread...

 

It's all about the extra effort. None of them did this to "save time." Sorry to insult your intelligence by spelling it out, but I figure this reminder might be necessary in case you are getting ideas. :laughing:

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As an owner I would be pretty forgiving as long as the book really was wet/unsignable when I checked and they seemed to verify they were there (described the cache etc). I would figure the wet log was my own fault and while I tend to have some paper and a pen with me when I cache, I don't expect it of everyone. Plus, I tend to feel something like that is not worth making waves over.

 

Where I get more miltant is with actual no finds. I once had a cache go missing and ran into another cacher while I was out checking if it was gone. I looked and verified that it was gone. He later logged a find because he had generally seen the spot where it was. I wrote and asked him to change it to a note. He seemed a bit miffed with me about that, but did change it, and later legitimately found the replacement.

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Personally, I prefer to carry a set of return adress stickers with my cacher name and logo. They sometimes stick when the log is too wet to write on. At least I can toss one in there for good measure if nothing else :ph34r: .

 

I know some people claim finds that they didn't find. More people don't claim DNFs for caches that they did not find. The same people tailgate me on the freeway for all the same reasons: they just want to get ahead of the next guy. At least here they don't threaten my life with their shallowness. If the greatest accomplishment a person has is a bigger number next to their name on a geocaching website, then I feel sorry for them. I log in my finds on the web for my personal benefit, and I would feel irked if some arrogant baboon deleted my post because they thought they had some clairvoyant ability to see where I was on a given day, especially if that person wasn't even responsible enough to provide a well-equipped, dry cache :laughing: . Chill out, people. Stop trying to control each other <_< .

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Actually, this problem can be tougher than some of the other suggestions make it seem.

 

I have come across dampish logs and had to pull apart the paper and let it dry on a hot sidewalk, or on the vent of the car with the heat on full blast. That usually takes care of minor sogginess.

 

But I have also seen logs so sopping wet that all of the names on the logs were smeared and blurred, and the paper is sticking together and beginning to turn moldy. When I see a log in that shape, I have to wonder how much the owner really cares about log integrity anyway.

 

If the cache is that wet, adding more paper doesn't really help, as it will just get wet, too. If the cache is small, you really can't just keep adding paper.

 

I think the cacher has some responsibility for helping to maintain a cache in minor ways. If the cache belongs to someone I know well, I will replace the log with a new one. I always email them to ask if they want me to mail the log to them, or to bring it to the next get-together.

 

I once did dare to remove a soggy log from a cache where I didn't know the owner. I got a severe scolding from them for tampering with their cache (and yes, I had offered to do whatever they wanted to get the log to them--mail it, drop it off somewhere, scan every page or type it all out and email it). Hmm, I won't do that again, even if I do think they were a bit too harsh.

 

Since I do carry a sharpie with me, I could have written my name on the log, or on a separate piece of paper, and walked away. It probably would have remained at least partially legible. Guess that is what I will probably try the next time I don't know the owner.

 

Who decides if the logs are bogus if you can't read the names in the log because you let the log stay soggy too long?

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What?? They didn't have anything to write their name on? A scrap piece of paper? A dollar? Anything?

Sorry, no signature, no find. I would have sent them an explanation and then deleted it.

 

Without cache owners sticking to the basic requirements of claiming a find, this is exactly what you get with the recent downward spiral of caching ethics and pumped-up numbers. Cache owners ALLOWING others to play it 'loose and fast' have brought this current situation down upon themselves.

Keep your caches straight, I say! Don't be afraid to use that 'delete log' option...it's there for a reason!

 

Again, no signature, no find. Delete. Simple.

 

This has happened to me once or twice and in the case where there is no paper to sign I will always leave my sig item(that has my name clearly on it) and send a note to the owner, in my opinion the sig item verifies that I did find the cache. After finding a few wet logs I now carry a bunch of small log books in my pack to replace wet logs which are fairly common in South Florida.

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As an owner I would be pretty forgiving as long as the book really was wet/unsignable when I checked and they seemed to verify they were there (described the cache etc). I would figure the wet log was my own fault and while I tend to have some paper and a pen with me when I cache, I don't expect it of everyone. Plus, I tend to feel something like that is not worth making waves over.

 

Where I get more miltant is with actual no finds. I once had a cache go missing and ran into another cacher while I was out checking if it was gone. I looked and verified that it was gone. He later logged a find because he had generally seen the spot where it was. I wrote and asked him to change it to a note. He seemed a bit miffed with me about that, but did change it, and later legitimately found the replacement.

I agree with everything you posted and could not have put it better.

 

While I have a gel pen, stamper, and stickers in my daypack, its rare that I carry it anymore. I can totally see myself with nothing but a pen and no way to sign a soggy log.

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I don't know if these people really found the cache or just claimed a find for the find count.

 

Cool it. They claim to have found a piece of tupperware you hid in the woods. <edited by moderator> they only claim to have found a wet bit of paper, so what?

 

It's all a game, isn't it?

 

Jan

Edited by CYBret
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I keep a Rite in the Rain tablet with me in my caching backpack. If I find a cache that has a wet log, my assumption is that the cache design makes it prone to wet logs. So, I pull out a couple sheets of waterproof paper, sign that and place the sheets in the cache for follow-on cachers to be able to sign.

 

Also, on a cache container I am not too certain about (like a cache under water), I use the H2O proof paper for the log, just in case.

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"Once you place the cache, it is your responsibility to maintain the cache and the area around it. You'll need to return as often as you can to ensure that your cache is not impacting the area, and ensure that the cache is in good repair." - geocaching guidelines which also states, "you'll need a logbook and a pen"

 

At the very least an owner should temporarily disable a cache that has a reported soggy logbook. A check will verify the reporting cacher (how'd would he have known it was soggy if they didn't go there in the first place) and would also help prevent others from facing the same problem. A soggy logbook shouldn't be the cacher's problem!

 

My own personal views: I trust cachers unless I have firm evidence not to. This is a fun light-hearted game and I like it that way.

 

I will allow a find on any of my caches where the log was in the cachers hands but can't be signed through no fault of the cacher.

 

As a owner I want my caches to be ready for the next hunt. And most of all I want the cachers to have a good experience with my caches.

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What?? They didn't have anything to write their name on? A scrap piece of paper? A dollar? Anything?

Sorry, no signature, no find. I would have sent them an explanation and then deleted it.

 

Without cache owners sticking to the basic requirements of claiming a find, this is exactly what you get with the recent downward spiral of caching ethics and pumped-up numbers. Cache owners ALLOWING others to play it 'loose and fast' have brought this current situation down upon themselves.

Keep your caches straight, I say! Don't be afraid to use that 'delete log' option...it's there for a reason!

 

Again, no signature, no find. Delete. Simple.

 

Respectfully TEAM 360, I found a micro recently that contained 3 items:

- a yellow, animal shaped eraser

- a tiny pencil

- a soggy, wet piece of mush wrapped around the pencil (I assume this was the log)

 

There was NO ROOM for anything else in this 35mm film canister.

 

I described the find, the contents, the location, and condition in my online log.

 

If they deleted my log knowing the circumstances surrounding the find, I'd be annoyed enough to never visit a cache placed by that owner again.

 

"Don't let the letter of the law defeat the spirit of the law."

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What?? They didn't have anything to write their name on? A scrap piece of paper? A dollar? Anything?

Sorry, no signature, no find. I would have sent them an explanation and then deleted it.

 

Without cache owners sticking to the basic requirements of claiming a find, this is exactly what you get with the recent downward spiral of caching ethics and pumped-up numbers. Cache owners ALLOWING others to play it 'loose and fast' have brought this current situation down upon themselves.

Keep your caches straight, I say! Don't be afraid to use that 'delete log' option...it's there for a reason!

 

Again, no signature, no find. Delete. Simple.

 

hummmmmmmmm! Let's see. I searched for the cache, I found the cache, I opened the container, I pulled out a pen BUT BECAUSE THE CACHE OWNER DID NOT MAINTAIN HIS/HER CACHE I should log a DNF. Sorry, not buying that one.

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What?? They didn't have anything to write their name on? A scrap piece of paper? A dollar? Anything?

Sorry, no signature, no find. I would have sent them an explanation and then deleted it.

 

Without cache owners sticking to the basic requirements of claiming a find, this is exactly what you get with the recent downward spiral of caching ethics and pumped-up numbers. Cache owners ALLOWING others to play it 'loose and fast' have brought this current situation down upon themselves.

Keep your caches straight, I say! Don't be afraid to use that 'delete log' option...it's there for a reason!

 

Again, no signature, no find. Delete. Simple.

 

I've found logs that were so wet you couldn't even pull it out of the container without destroying it. I suppose I could have left a piece of paper with my sig on it, but it too would have just disintegrated without proper maintenance of the cache. If the owner of the cache has a problem with this, I would hope they would contact the cacher and then perform some maintenance on their cache.

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Since the cache in question is in Washignton State, there is no need to doubt that it is soaking wet. It isn't uncommon at all here to find logs that have turned to mush and you are forced to do what you can with what ever you have. Besides, if somebody lies about a find, it doesn't hurt anybody but them.

As has been noted before, this can "hurt" others. A false find log can send people on hunts for caches that aren't there. Or cause a cache owner to think everything is OK with the cache and not do needed work on it.

 

I always carry a "space" pen in my kit. These can write on just about anything and anywhere. I've signed logs that were so wet that a regular pen would have ripped several layers of mush. I also carry small rite-in-the-rain notebooks with me so I can add a waterproof logbook (or remove a page or two to add to smaller caches). I will always note what I've done in the log so the owner knows what's going on. I try to keep extra baggies in my kit, but being in WA (the wet half) I keep running out!

 

I'd say, let them have the find and get out asap to replace the log (consider using a waterproof logbook).

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Here is one of those wet logs...

a4709c80-3c28-47e2-8935-5550c10f2bd5.jpg

The log is in the lower right corner. I could have put a scrap piece of paper in there but before long it would have ended up looking like the rest of the paper in the cache. I took a picture and posted it in the online log and emailed the owner. Looks like the first entry about a wet log was 4 months ago. I listed this as a find.

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I was looking for a cache one. I was in the correct area. Just about to put my hand on the cache container when I disturbed a 'rat'.

When I picked up the cache there was a strong smell of ammonia. I took it to be the rats calling card. The log book was very wet, and so was the container.

I emailed the cache owners and told them, location and condition. With in a couple of hours I was told to log it as a find even though I could not find sign the log. Cache was replaced the next day. I would have replaced the log book but it would have soaked up the rats offerings!!

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I was looking for a cache one. I was in the correct area. Just about to put my hand on the cache container when I disturbed a 'rat'.

When I picked up the cache there was a strong smell of ammonia. I took it to be the rats calling card. The log book was very wet, and so was the container.

I emailed the cache owners and told them, location and condition. With in a couple of hours I was told to log it as a find even though I could not find sign the log. Cache was replaced the next day. I would have replaced the log book but it would have soaked up the rats offerings!!

 

I had a similiar experience, but the perpetrator was a human, not a rat. :-\

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Um, if a cache is so poorly maintained that it is continually full of water, I doubt anyone would be deleting finds because your name is not in the logbook.

 

On the other hand, someone who is on top of maintenance and had not yet gotten a report of maintenance issues would be looking for some sort of proof you were there. It would be very likely they could get there in time for your piece of paper to have not disintegrated.

 

Also, doesn't anyone carry baggies anymore? We could almost completely replace a cache if we needed to. A scrap of paper, heck a whole logbook, in a baggy will take care of most issues.

 

Yes, I'm sure there are always excepts, but let's not try to make them a rule.

Edited by CoyoteRed
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I signed one the other day with a charred stick from a camp fire pit since I forgot a pen :laughing:

 

Check this out. Look for my log of 1 April... Nothing like dashing for a cache and forgetting your utensils :tired:

 

I have found numerous "soaked" logs. My usual procedure is to let the log dry out before signing. However, sometimes that is not an option (raining) so I whip out the pen and write a big wet Jhwk in the log book.

 

If I can't find the cache, or can't sign the log, then I don't get the smiley. I would work with the owner if needed. Carry some paper, ziploc bags, and pens with you to help others out.

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