White Jeep Deception

10.1k · July 1, 2005

There's No White Jeep Here!

I ran across this one. The owner of the cache claimed to have put a White Jeep TB in the cache. I know someone who spent considerable time and effort to retrieve that White Jeep TB. He had a great time caching in the area, but was very disgusted to find that the White Jeep TB had never been placed in that cache. The owner seems to be keeping the Jeep to himself.

There seems to be some gibberish about being able to enter the Jeep contest if the Jeep isn't there.. I thought that that was for instances where someone took the Jeep and didn't log it. To have claimed to put the Jeep in the cache, and yet keep it for one's self seems a very sick perversion of the whole idea!

What a self-serving piece of claptrap this is!

(Edited to abide by guidelines. Thanks, Welch.)

Edited July 1, 2005 by Harry Dolphin

6.5k · July 1, 2005

the owner is advertising the jeep contest??? I agree its silly and will probably more than one persons time who doesn't read everything carefully....

oh, and you should try to NOT violate the forum guidelines about personally attacking someone.

July 1, 2005

it is unfortunate, but there are several flavors of unethical and perverse revolving around the whitejeep. my personal favorite has become cachers who keep the jeeps to themselves, just to log in and out of caches. with a large list of whitejeeps on my watchlist, i've been amazed at how many jeeps are doing such spectacular movement without ever leaving the same cacher's hands. that pretty much relegates the whole whitejeep game to a little private party--shame for the other thousands of cachers who would like to log a jeep find.

July 1, 2005

And the sad part about keeping possession and logging them in and out of caches is that it is not the way to enter the contest this year. Cache entries don't do a thing for them. They need to submit a photo under the contest rules. Maybe it will pick up and the jeeps will move a little more this year between cachers.

July 1, 2005

What do you guys think about WJTBs that have a 'stipulation' posted by the last cacher. Please do not remove from this area?!?? I rescued one and relocated it about 40 miles closer to a major metropolis where we have a thriving community of geocachers only to have my first hidden cache be blackmailed! We will not approve your cache until you return the WJTB back to where 'I' put it. Who owns these TBs? Jeep correct? Who are we to limit a TBs movements. Oh by the way, the second WJTB in that original area, has been sitting for nine days now.

1.7k · July 1, 2005

What do you guys think about WJTBs that have a 'stipulation' posted by the last cacher. Please do not remove from this area?!?? I rescued one and relocated it about 40 miles closer to a major metropolis where we have a thriving community of geocachers only to have my first hidden cache be blackmailed! We will not approve your cache until you return the WJTB back to where 'I' put it. Who owns these TBs? Jeep correct? Who are we to limit a TBs movements. Oh by the way, the second WJTB in that original area, has been sitting for nine days now.

Ummm...Are you sure it was an approver who told you this, doesn't sound like something they would do.

7.2k · July 1, 2005

We will not approve your cache until you return the WJTB back to where 'I' put it.

I find this hard to believe.

Someone want to confirm or deny reviewers are basing listings based on where someone put a TB?

July 1, 2005

Retrieve it, log it, photo it and move it. They are designed to be moved- move it anywhere you like. I have found 2 so far. I logged one and left it where it was and took one and plan to move it to another state.

July 1, 2005

There's No White Jeep Here!
I ran across this one. The owner of the cache claimed to have put a White Jeep TB in the cache. I know someone who spent considerable time and effort to retrieve that White Jeep TB. He had a great time caching in the area, but was very disgusted to find that the White Jeep TB had never been placed in that cache. The owner seems to be keeping the Jeep to himself.

There seems to be some gibberish about being able to enter the Jeep contest if the Jeep isn't there.. I thought that that was for instances where someone took the Jeep and didn't log it. To have claimed to put the Jeep in the cache, and yet keep it for one's self seems a very sick perversion of the whole idea!

What a self-serving piece of claptrap this is!

(Edited to abide by guidelines. Thanks, Welch.)

On the other hand, if someone was to place a jeep in a cache and not drop it, just place a 'suprise'. What a great way to get the jeep into the hands of an unsuspecting cacher who may be more likely to move it along than keep it.

Instead they usually fall into the personal collection of jeeps that I'm sure alot of people have sitting on their mantles or other places of honor to be revered and worshipped for their holiness.

Just make sure they drop it in the cache and then grab it to keep mileage correct. Is this a good idea? I have a jeep that I plan to drop this weekend and would like some opinions.

2.2k · July 1, 2005

What do you guys think about WJTBs that have a 'stipulation' posted by the last cacher. Please do not remove from this area?!?? I rescued one and relocated it about 40 miles closer to a major metropolis where we have a thriving community of geocachers only to have my first hidden cache be blackmailed! We will not approve your cache until you return the WJTB back to where 'I' put it. Who owns these TBs? Jeep correct? Who are we to limit a TBs movements. Oh by the way, the second WJTB in that original area, has been sitting for nine days now.

If your reviewer is refusing to approve a cache because of a WJTB that they don't own in the first place, you really need to send an email to approvers@Groundspeak.com

This is a TOTAL breach of the confidence and trust that Groundspeak gives it's reviewers and someone who would weild that power in this fashion is unworthy of that trust.

38.2k · July 1, 2005

There's No White Jeep Here!
I ran across this one. The owner of the cache claimed to have put a White Jeep TB in the cache. I know someone who spent considerable time and effort to retrieve that White Jeep TB. He had a great time caching in the area, but was very disgusted to find that the White Jeep TB had never been placed in that cache. The owner seems to be keeping the Jeep to himself.

Why would someone go through the trouble of logging a WJTB into a cache, then keep it? Doesn't make any sense to me because people are free to keep them if they want.

Also, don't rule out the possibility of a ghost cacher taking a WJTB. Not everybody logs their finds so the owner may have placed the WJTB in the cache and someone found it and never logged it out. Wouldn't be the first time it happened.

What do you guys think about WJTBs that have a 'stipulation' posted by the last cacher. Please do not remove from this area?!?? I rescued one and relocated it about 40 miles closer to a major metropolis where we have a thriving community of geocachers only to have my first hidden cache be blackmailed! We will not approve your cache until you return the WJTB back to where 'I' put it.

I see a newly approved cache listed in your profile so I'm not sure what your beef is.

Edited July 1, 2005 by briansnat

2.2k · July 1, 2005

Doesn't make any sense to me because people are free to keep them if they want.

Since when are people free to keep something that doesn't belong to them?

July 1, 2005

If your reviewer is refusing to approve a cache because of a WJTB that they don't own in the first place, you really need to send an email to approvers@Groundspeak.com

This is a TOTAL breach of the confidence and trust that Groundspeak gives it's reviewers and someone who would weild that power in this fashion is unworthy of that trust.

You don't know that the Reviewer was involved. I agree with C-R (above) that it seems unlikely - especially as the cache in question HAS been approved.

The fact is: any experienced cacher could have had the WJTB on a "watchlist" - and therefore would have known that it had been dropped in a new pending cache. To send a message pretending to be one of the Reviewers, would have been the work of a moment.

Viewed from afar (Ireland), the whole affair reflects little credit on any of those involved...

-Wlw.

38.2k · July 1, 2005

Doesn't make any sense to me because people are free to keep them if they want.

Since when are people free to keep something that doesn't belong to them?

I understood that people were free to keep the YJTBs and I assumed that it is the same with the WJTBs.

2.2k · July 1, 2005

Doesn't make any sense to me because people are free to keep them if they want.

Since when are people free to keep something that doesn't belong to them?

I understood that people were free to keep the YJTBs and I assumed that it is the same with the WJTBs.

This is news to me. Could you please point me to where It says that?

5.3k · July 1, 2005

WTBJ should bekept on the move.

But a TB that is purchased by a cacher is subject to the desires of the cacher that paid for the TB. If a cacher want a TB kept in an certain area or only wants his/hers TB place in certain caches that is up to them because they own the bug.

If cache has a specific goal a card of some sort should be on the TB explaining the goals of the TB.

July 1, 2005

Doesn't make any sense to me because people are free to keep them if they want.

Since when are people free to keep something that doesn't belong to them?

I understood that people were free to keep the YJTBs and I assumed that it is the same with the WJTBs.

This is news to me. Could you please point me to where It says that?

you are free to keep a WJTB in the same way you can keep a rental car. does not make it right, but you can do it.

July 1, 2005

My take on the WJTB is that the "approver person" is trying to keep the WJTB in a specific area so all of his fellow cachers in the area have the opportunity to take a picture with it and get in the contest. Unethical but understandable.

Any TB is subject to to being Missing in Action and as such when you put a TB out you should be willing to loose it forever at any time.

We went to a new cache recently ..... knife in cache, 2 lighters in cache, ammo markings on container clearly visible. I traded out the lighters, left the knife (but am having second thoughts on that), and added a green spray paint can to my list of backback goodies. I did not loose any sleep over it. IT"S A GAME PEOPLE!

ImpalaBob

2k · July 1, 2005

I always thought Travel Bugs were supposed to ......um......travel?

If I found a white jeep (or any other travel bug), I would normally try to move it. Of course, TB's do have "missions" and I suppose the "mission" could be to stay in an area.

An easier way to let local cachers log the TB would be to have an event, bring the bug to the event and then let them log it.

38.2k · July 1, 2005

Doesn't make any sense to me because people are free to keep them if they want.

Since when are people free to keep something that doesn't belong to them?

I understood that people were free to keep the YJTBs and I assumed that it is the same with the WJTBs.

This is news to me. Could you please point me to where It says that?

Since I don't know the URL to the old YJTB page I can't.

2.2k · July 1, 2005

Doesnt really matter anyways. People will end up keeping them whether Jeep has authorized it or not.

July 1, 2005

the YJTB's are supposed to be kept moving. period.

(even jeremy, in a previous thread about this same topic, said he would prefer that they be kept in circulation.)

38.2k · July 1, 2005

Doesnt really matter anyways. People will end up keeping them whether Jeep has authorized it or not.

It doesn't matter. My point was that I can't see a cache owner logging them into a cache, then keeping them. Seems silly to me and I don't understand why someone would do it.

6.4k · July 1, 2005

Since I don't know the URL to the old YJTB page I can't.

Gotta love the Wayback Machine!

Here is the jeep contest page as it looked in Nov. 2004: (link)

July 1, 2005

Doesn't make any sense to me because people are free to keep them if they want.

Since when are people free to keep something that doesn't belong to them?

I understood that people were free to keep the YJTBs and I assumed that it is the same with the WJTBs.

This is news to me. Could you please point me to where It says that?

Since I don't know the URL to the old YJTB page I can't.

The yellow jeep travel bugs were allowed to be kept AFTER the contest was over, but were supposed to be kept moving before that.

It is indeed a game and subject to the rules the players would like to impose as the game is played.

I personally think that the grab and hide "rule" is great. The TB will always be a surprise to the next cacher and the mileage will still be intact. (not that the mileage matters anyway though)

July 1, 2005

"It doesn't matter. My point was that I can't see a cache owner logging them into a cache, then keeping them. Seems silly to me and I don't understand why someone would do it."

the reason is very simple. if they keep logging caches it appears that there is activity with the jeep and, a ) that maintains their self-righteous delusion that they are not keeping it, b ) eliminates that pesky message telling them that they have a travel bug that has been inactive more than 14 days, c )creates the illusion to others that they are genuinely moving the jeeps along.

if you, as a very active and ethical cacher, haven't thought of these reasons, think about how many other cachers wouldn't recognize the deceptiveness here.

July 1, 2005

What do you guys think about WJTBs that have a 'stipulation' posted by the last cacher. Please do not remove from this area?!?? I rescued one and relocated it about 40 miles closer to a major metropolis where we have a thriving community of geocachers only to have my first hidden cache be blackmailed! We will not approve your cache until you return the WJTB back to where 'I' put it. Who owns these TBs? Jeep correct? Who are we to limit a TBs movements. Oh by the way, the second WJTB in that original area, has been sitting for nine days now.

Interesting, the person who said not to remove it from the area picked up again! I suppose he is going to move it back to Charlotesville. . He didn't even log the cache to claim FTF.

White Jeep Travel Bug "Eadwyn"

BTW, what is a Charter Member?

DC

24.7k · July 1, 2005

What do you guys think about WJTBs that have a 'stipulation' posted by the last cacher. Please do not remove from this area?!?? I rescued one and relocated it about 40 miles closer to a major metropolis where we have a thriving community of geocachers only to have my first hidden cache be blackmailed! We will not approve your cache until you return the WJTB back to where 'I' put it. Who owns these TBs? Jeep correct? Who are we to limit a TBs movements. Oh by the way, the second WJTB in that original area, has been sitting for nine days now.

It's a travel bug, it moves. Stipulations don't have any basis and should be ignored.

If an approver actually said that use the report an approver email (which I don't know what it is...) and forward the exact comment. Jeep TB's and Cache approvals don't have anything in common.

7.2k · July 1, 2005

If an approver actually said that use the report an approver email...

I agree. If that happened then that's not right. Not in the least.

6.5k · July 1, 2005

Interesting, the person who said not to remove it from the area picked up again! I suppose he is going to move it back to Charlotesville. . He didn't even log the cache to claim FTF.

BTW, what is a Charter Member?

I saw that too... I wonder if wjtb is actually still there or not?

a charter member is a person who paid for 'premium' membership in the first 11months it was offered. (oh and haven't let it lapse)

July 1, 2005

Woowhoo! I found "Bob" today. (OK, I went to a cache I had already found to retrieve the jeep-- but it had been there for 11.5 days...)

I have a short trip that I am taking on the 6th (I can't leave the bug overseas, so it's coming back with me, after an in-and-out at a cache there), then I'll release it, because that is what the goal of the TB states:

Current GOAL: Log your visit, and move me to a new geocache!

Now, the bug looks cute sitting next to my computer station right now, but I'm 47 years old and probably won't be getting down on the floor to play with it any time soon. I'd like to see it move around, so others can log it and get a chance to experience the Wow! factor of holding a White Jeep TB for a little while. That's what it should be about, not for mantle-sitting. Count coups on your profile page...

I was given four yellow jeeps by the Maryland Geocaching Society to release last year and all four have "stalled"; two are in unknown locations in New York (12/29/04) and Arizona (4/18/05), the other two in the hands of a cacher in Wisconsin (8/12/04), who complained that none ever got his way before he got this one, and one in that I left in the UK (2/18/05). I'm sure they are being enjoyed by whoever has them right now...but no one else.

July 1, 2005

In defense of the reviewers I have had a disagreement about a Virtual and discovered once again that it is easy to blame the other guy when you don't get you own way.

I still feel I am correct but I realize I only have a " local " and self centered view.

These folks are are spending a great deal of personal time to direct stuff in a positive fashion.

A realistic view is DON'T MAKE AN ACCUSATION UNLESS YOU HAVE IRREFUTABLE PROOF!

End of sermon.

July 1, 2005

I have just been to a cache where a similar situation has occurred. I noticed a WJTB was listed the night before so I went out over my lunch break to check it out. I worked hard to get to the cache, it was two parter and it was not easy. I finally get to it and to my disappointment, there was no jeep. No one has logged the cache or picked up the jeep since I was there. Or, if they have, they are being quiet about it, or the jeep owner still has it in their mitts. It really bummed me out because I worked hard for that cache and was hoping to get a prize.

July 1, 2005

The reviewr and I came to an agreement today after several emails back and fro. Cache is up and running and although frustrating, WJTB is on its way once again. Maybe they'll take it back to Charlottesville!

Edited July 1, 2005 by Team Mini Wee!

July 1, 2005

The reviewr and I came to an agreement today after several emails back and fro. Cache is up and running and although frustrating, WJTB is on its way once again. Maybe they'll take it back to Charlottesville!

MiniWee: I just read what your post said before you edited it. If a Reviewer abused his/her position in the way you describe, then that Reviewer has to resign.

You should send any evidence of this to Groundspeak, directly.

-Wlw.

9.4k · July 1, 2005

The yellow jeep travel bugs were allowed to be kept AFTER the contest was over, but were supposed to be kept moving before that.

No. They should keep going. I don't remember saying that people could keep them after the end of the year.

9.4k · July 1, 2005

We will not approve your cache until you return the WJTB back to where 'I' put it.

I need to know who said this. Please forward any emails you may have.

38.2k · July 2, 2005

"It doesn't matter. My point was that I can't see a cache owner logging them into a cache, then keeping them. Seems silly to me and I don't understand why someone would do it."

the reason is very simple. if they keep logging caches it appears that there is activity with the jeep and, a ) that maintains their self-righteous delusion that they are not keeping it, b ) eliminates that pesky message telling them that they have a travel bug that has been inactive more than 14 days, c )creates the illusion to others that they are genuinely moving the jeeps along.

if you, as a very active and ethical cacher, haven't thought of these reasons, think about how many other cachers wouldn't recognize the deceptiveness here.

I think what Mr. Dolphin was complaining about was someone logging a WJTB into a cache, and leaving it logged in there but hanging on to the WJTB. That doesn't make a whit of sense to me.

I can see someone keeping one and logging it in and out of caches as they find them. Because of the unique nature of these TBs its not a good idea to do this, but its common practice with regular TBs. I think that if people are doing it, they are doing so out of ignorance rather than having any "evil" intent.

July 2, 2005

The reason they logged it into their cache and then kept it, they claim is so other people in the area could have a chance to enter the contest.. So then some unsuspecting twit like me races out there to get it and its not there.

Edited July 2, 2005 by FunnyNose

July 2, 2005

^^^^^

yup!

(like me too, FN) :anitongue:

2.5k · July 2, 2005

I found my white jeep quickly this year, but missed the photo opportunity for last month, so I'll try for one of this month's themes. I would have liked to move it quickly, but there are sometimes higher priorities that get ahead of this one. Sorry that I can't accomodate everyone's timelines.

2.5k · July 2, 2005

We will not approve your cache until you return the WJTB back to where 'I' put it.

I need to know who said this. Please forward any emails you may have.

It looks like it was this travel bug. It also looks like the original placer hung on to the number and tried to fake a retrieval as well. How sad, lame, and weak.

July 5, 2005

There's No White Jeep Here!
I ran across this one. The owner of the cache claimed to have put a White Jeep TB in the cache. I know someone who spent considerable time and effort to retrieve that White Jeep TB. He had a great time caching in the area, but was very disgusted to find that the White Jeep TB had never been placed in that cache. The owner seems to be keeping the Jeep to himself.

There seems to be some gibberish about being able to enter the Jeep contest if the Jeep isn't there.. I thought that that was for instances where someone took the Jeep and didn't log it. To have claimed to put the Jeep in the cache, and yet keep it for one's self seems a very sick perversion of the whole idea!

What a self-serving piece of claptrap this is!

(Edited to abide by guidelines. Thanks, Welch.)

On the other hand, if someone was to place a jeep in a cache and not drop it, just place a 'suprise'. What a great way to get the jeep into the hands of an unsuspecting cacher who may be more likely to move it along than keep it.

Instead they usually fall into the personal collection of jeeps that I'm sure alot of people have sitting on their mantles or other places of honor to be revered and worshipped for their holiness.

Just make sure they drop it in the cache and then grab it to keep mileage correct. Is this a good idea? I have a jeep that I plan to drop this weekend and would like some opinions.

This just happend in one of my caches yesterday.I was reading the logs on one of my caches and the guy that found it said there was a white jeep T.B. in it..I didnt know it was there or I would have retrieved it for my own log as a find..Just never know where they are.The guy was a happy cacher

3.8k · July 7, 2005

There's No White Jeep Here!
I ran across this one. The owner of the cache claimed to have put a White Jeep TB in the cache. I know someone who spent considerable time and effort to retrieve that White Jeep TB. He had a great time caching in the area, but was very disgusted to find that the White Jeep TB had never been placed in that cache. The owner seems to be keeping the Jeep to himself.

There seems to be some gibberish about being able to enter the Jeep contest if the Jeep isn't there.. I thought that that was for instances where someone took the Jeep and didn't log it. To have claimed to put the Jeep in the cache, and yet keep it for one's self seems a very sick perversion of the whole idea!

What a self-serving piece of claptrap this is!

(Edited to abide by guidelines. Thanks, Welch.)

We have a cacher family here in Washington State that's doing the same thing. They logged the White Jeep they found into a log they own, and claim, in so many words that they did it so other people could have a chance at the contest. Then, in the same paragraph, the admit to not having put the Jeep in the cache!

There are some PO'ed cachers around here.

This is taken from their page.

"NOTE: Our thoughts for placing a White Jeep symbol in this cache was to give those that wanted to enter the Photo Jeep Contest a chance to do so. The Jeep is not at this cache at this time. http://jeep.geocaching.com/contest/rules.aspx "

July 7, 2005

In honor of White Jeep Travel Bug "Keisha"

I have issued my own Travel Bug

Unofficial White Jeep Travel Bug "Seabeck"

http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=106968

Edited July 7, 2005 by FunnyNose

7.3k · July 7, 2005

In honor of White Jeep Travel Bug "Keisha"
I have issued my own Travel Bug

Unofficial White Jeep Travel Bug "Seabeck"

http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=106968

We've tried two different Wal-marts, and can't find the Jeeps.

July 7, 2005

We've tried two different Wal-marts, and can't find the Jeeps.

Each Wal-Mart I visited only seemed to have 1

7.3k · July 7, 2005

We've tried two different Wal-marts, and can't find the Jeeps.

Each Wal-Mart I visited only seemed to have 1

Weird.

July 7, 2005

Doesn't make any sense to me because people are free to keep them if they want.

Since when are people free to keep something that doesn't belong to them?

I understood that people were free to keep the YJTBs and I assumed that it is the same with the WJTBs.

This is news to me. Could you please point me to where It says that?

you are free to keep a WJTB in the same way you can keep a rental car. does not make it right, but you can do it.

Apples to oranges, You are under contract to return a rental car and they have a credit card number. Anytime you put something in a box and hide it but post the coordinates for others to come and find it I would say your pretty much giving up the rights to it. I to am a firm believer in keeping TB’s and Jeeps moving and I think briansnat was just a little confused about the Jeeps, but I really don’t understand when people get so upset when things go missing, I believe it’s the risk you take when you post the coordinates to something you have left to be took on the world wide web, but that’s just my thoughts.

6.5k · July 7, 2005

Doesn't make any sense to me because people are free to keep them if they want.

Since when are people free to keep something that doesn't belong to them?

I understood that people were free to keep the YJTBs and I assumed that it is the same with the WJTBs.

This is news to me. Could you please point me to where It says that?

you are free to keep a WJTB in the same way you can keep a rental car. does not make it right, but you can do it.

Apples to oranges, You are under contract to return a rental car and they have a credit card number. Anytime you put something in a box and hide it but post the coordinates for others to come and find it I would say your pretty much giving up the rights to it. I to am a firm believer in keeping TB’s and Jeeps moving and I think briansnat was just a little confused about the Jeeps, but I really don’t understand when people get so upset when things go missing, I believe it’s the risk you take when you post the coordinates to something you have left to be took on the world wide web, but that’s just my thoughts.

so I should fricking happy when I leave my car in a public place and someone runs into and drives off? or steals the radio?

I understand why people are ticked when 'their' TBs go missing, I don't want to hear the whining!!, but I do understand.

White Jeep Deception

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