Members-only Caches

Posted May 30, 2005 · May 30, 2005

For the first time, I recently noticed a "members-only" cache. Hmmm, my first reaction was "A bit of an elitist, aren't they? (The one/s who placed the cache) I recently took out a Premium membership; not for the purpose of accessing these caches, but simply because I want to support GCing any way I can, so these "M-O" caches are not a problem for me/us. I am wondering about the reactions and viewpoints on the subject from the rest of you. Any thoughts?

Posted May 30, 2005 · May 30, 2005

Some people think it's elitist. Some thing it's a way to give a little something more to those who support this site. Some want to limit how many find a cache. Some have a person stealing caches. Others like to give members first crack at a cache before opening it up to eveyone else.

The ideas on it are varied. Locally over half of my nearest unfound caches are MO caches. When I was a charter member I never gave them any thought at all. Now that I'm not getting that "sorry" screen is something I see a lot.

Edited May 30, 2005 by Renegade Knight

Posted May 30, 2005 · May 30, 2005

Elitist? I don't think so. The primary purpose of the "members only" cache is to prevent cache theft. In some areas there have been (and continue to be) problems with people stealing caches. MO caches hide the coordinates from non-paying members. This isn't 100% effective, but it does work rather well in most cases.

Here's a quote from Jeremy Irish (in response to people claiming that MO caches are meant as a money making device) from some months back:

Contrary to what some say, the intent of Member only caches was not to encourage people to become Premium Members. I don't plan to offer this capability to entice people to upgrade their membership. Instead, I'd rather provide new features like ignore lists.

It can be found in this post from this thread.

I don't view them as elitist, I view them as a necessary evil. Luckily, there are very few in my area (there's only 1 or 2 in my whole state).

southdeltan

Posted May 30, 2005 · May 30, 2005

I see the reasons for MO caches, but it is hard when you are caching with a friend who is not a member. They may go to the cache with you, but then cannot log it online. A bit frustrating.

Posted May 31, 2005 · May 31, 2005

WOW! So much response in such short time. Thank you all for your perspective; I never thought about cache-theft. I guess I figure all 'cachers are as nice as the ones I've met, and cache theft would not be a problem. So naive at 50-plus..... live & learn.

Posted May 31, 2005 · May 31, 2005

I see the reasons for MO caches, but it is hard when you are caching with a friend who is not a member. They may go to the cache with you, but then cannot log it online. A bit frustrating.

Yes they can. It involves copying the cache id number when you click the link "log your visit."

Here is an example of the log id on two of my caches. geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?ID=151757

and another

geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?ID=151753

The six digit number at the end is the ID number

This topic has already been beat to death in these threads

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=99162

An older thread

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=91178

Edited May 31, 2005 by Kit Fox

Posted May 31, 2005 · May 31, 2005

I see the reasons for MO caches, but it is hard when you are caching with a friend who is not a member. They may go to the cache with you, but then cannot log it online. A bit frustrating.

Yes they can. It involves copying the cache id number when you click the link "log your visit."

Here is an example of the log id on two of my caches. geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?ID=151757

and another

geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?ID=151753

The six digit number at the end is the ID number

This topic has already been beat to death in these threads

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=99162

An older thread

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=91178

It's possible for them to log them, but I don't think that would really be right, because it is MO.

Posted May 31, 2005 · May 31, 2005

I see the reasons for MO caches, but it is hard when you are caching with a friend who is not a member. They may go to the cache with you, but then cannot log it online. A bit frustrating.

Yes they can. It involves copying the cache id number when you click the link "log your visit."

Here is an example of the log id on two of my caches. geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?ID=151757

and another

geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?ID=151753

The six digit number at the end is the ID number

This topic has already been beat to death in these threads

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=99162

An older thread

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=91178

It's possible for them to log them, but I don't think that would really be right, because it is MO.

Even Jeremy is aware of the glitch. http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...=91926&hl=aware

Read Lil Devil then Jeremy's reply.

Posted May 31, 2005 · May 31, 2005

It's possible for them to log them, but I don't think that would really be right, because it is MO.

I would imagine that it is possible for regular subscribers to log MO caches because Jeremy is okay with it.

I don't think it would be too hard to close the loophole that allows regular members to log MO caches. (They still need access to the cache coordinates from a Premium Member.)

As someone stated previously, MO caches were not designed for the purpose of generating paying memberships. They allow paid subscribers to conceal caches from thieves, or to give the cache owner the ability to allow other paid subscribers first crack at new caches.

Of course I shoudn't speak for TPTB. Maybe they don't like regular members to log MO caches!

Posted May 31, 2005 · May 31, 2005

I don't think it would be too hard to close the loophole that allows regular members to log MO caches. (They still need access to the cache coordinates from a Premium Member.)

There are ways to find out the coordinates of an MO cache even if you are not a PM. Of course if it is an offset or a puzzle cache then you've got a problem.

Posted May 31, 2005 · May 31, 2005

I made my most recent hide an MO cache because I wanted to see the audit log. I do wish that audit logs were a member benefit, not an attribute of member's only caches. I took it off after about a week.

On the other hand, even if the audit log becomes a member's benefit I'd still make my hides MO caches for a week just to "reward" the members with a first shot at the cache, especially for FTF.

Paul

Posted May 31, 2005 · May 31, 2005

I see the reasons for MO caches, but it is hard when you are caching with a friend who is not a member. They may go to the cache with you, but then cannot log it online. A bit frustrating.

$3.00 a month or $30 a year.

C'mon. Get over it. If your friend can spend $100. minimum for a GPSr to go caching with you then they can afford a $3. a month membership to Geocaching. I got my membership just for the extra goodies that come along with it.

If you want the extras, get a membership. If you can live without the extras, don't get a membership. It's as easy as that.

Just like AMX. Membership has it's privileges. Is that a problem? If so go elsewhere.

-Jeff

Posted May 31, 2005 · May 31, 2005

On the other hand, even if the audit log becomes a member's benefit I'd still make my hides MO caches for a week just to "reward" the members with a first shot at the cache, especially for FTF.

The FTF usually goes to one of a small group of very active cachers who are premium members anyway (the "usual suspects"). I would rather do the opposite of what you are doing: I would prevent PMs from being FTF so that newbies can give it a shot and have the joy of getting their first FTF in their lives. Why should always the same 2-3 guys get those FTF prizes?

Posted May 31, 2005 · May 31, 2005

... Maybe they don't like regular members to log MO caches!

Jeremy posted in another thread that the logging ability won't be closed so that members can log MO caches they find with Premimum members. You can't find the cache without doing a lot of math (and that's not the same as logging) or having a premimum member help.

Posted May 31, 2005 · May 31, 2005

I have a few MO caches. No it is not elitist. Specific reasons.

To limit the number of finds and preserve a somewhat fragile enviornment.

To limit it to experienced cachers who should have enough sense not to expose it, or who should have enough tact not to make do foolish things in touchy areas and make a blemish on geocaching.

To limit plunders.

To keep it invisible to the outside world for a variety of reasons.

Posted May 31, 2005 · May 31, 2005

What's an 'audit log'?

Posted May 31, 2005 · May 31, 2005

What's an 'audit log'?

On MOCs you get a log showing the geocachers that visit the MOC cache page. it also tells you how many times they visited your cache page.

Posted May 31, 2005 · May 31, 2005

Any cache has an audit log. So you can switch it to MOC, take a look and then switch it back. If you like.

Posted May 31, 2005 · May 31, 2005

my next series will be all PM caches. There is enough regular caches around so that newbies can still see what geocaching is all about.

Trading fair is why I plan to go to the PM caches. usually PM don't even trade they just sign logs.

Posted May 31, 2005 · May 31, 2005

my next series will be all PM caches. There is enough regular caches around so that newbies can still see what geocaching is all about.
Trading fair is why I plan to go to the PM caches. usually PM don't even trade they just sign logs.

Then make a log-only cache.

I'm amazed how creative people can be when it comes to inventing reasons why they are placing MO caches when in fact it's just plain elitism.

Posted May 31, 2005 · May 31, 2005

I'm amazed how creative people can be when it comes to inventing reasons why they are placing MO caches when in fact it's just plain elitism.

You've made up your mind, that's fine with me. This is my reason, I don't believe that it is "elitism".

Edited May 31, 2005 by C&C+COMPANY

Posted May 31, 2005 · May 31, 2005

I'm amazed how creative people can be when it comes to inventing reasons why they are placing MO caches when in fact it's just plain elitism.

BWAAAHAHAHAHA ... this topic always kills me. How can you use a term like elitism when referencing a sport that evolves around tupperware and ammo cans. That is laughable. Anyways, I use MO caches to cut down on the riff-raff. If that is elitism then I'm guilty as charged ...

PS - I am, however, a huge NASCAR fan so please don't think I'm being too snooty ...

Posted May 31, 2005 · May 31, 2005

PS - I am, however, a huge NASCAR fan so please don't think I'm being too snooty ...

too funny!

Posted May 31, 2005 · May 31, 2005

BWAAAHAHAHAHA ... this topic always kills me. How can you use a term like elitism when referencing a sport that evolves around tupperware and ammo cans.

My sentiments exactly!

The reasons I've had MO caches have been primarily to minimize the number of visits I get on caches that are particularly "delicate" hides. My own personal opinion is that caches are meant to be found, so I want as many people to find them as possible...I, for one, would never want to outright prevent a non-PM cacher from logging a find on one of my caches. I just want to keep the traffic down on a few.

Posted May 31, 2005 · May 31, 2005

For the first time, I recently noticed a "members-only" cache. Hmmm, my first reaction was "A bit of an elitist, aren't they? (The one/s who placed the cache) I recently took out a Premium membership; not for the purpose of accessing these caches, but simply because I want to support GCing any way .... Any thoughts?

Sure, I have some thoughts.

1) My GPSr cost $139.

2) I search for surplus store ammo cans, tupperware, and $0.86 waterproof match containers. The "treasure" is signing the log or a recycled/dollar store item my two year old finds invaluable.

3) My premium membership set me back a whopping $30 for a year.

From my perspective, this is hardly "elitist."

This reminds me of a convenient store encounter I had a few weeks ago. I get up to the counter to pay, and some dude behind me mutters "y'all buyin' only the best, you rich #(%hole!" I was somewhat startled, and noted he had a six pack of Natural Light and a can of Grizzly snuff. I replied, "I'll take that as humor." Pointing to my can of Copenhagen "this isn't a cuban cigar," and to my six pack of Budweiser "and this isn't a Bourdeux wine (I think I lost him on this part)." I paused, looked for any sign of the fellow being facetious, then stated "yup, Copenhagen and Bud is really high-fallutin'."

It all just depends on one's perspective, I suppose.

Posted May 31, 2005 · May 31, 2005

I think that premium member cachers have a little more pride in the hobby, considering they spent the extra money to sign up to the site. They are probably the people that are really trying to push the limits of the hobby, try new things, and keep it interesting. Therefore, they are more likely to stick to a cache theme if you have one, they will take a little extra time to find an appropriate item to exchange, rather than throw in just any old McToy.

Posted May 31, 2005 · May 31, 2005

Whaddya--some kind of Socialist? You want a free ride at the expense of the taxpayers? I hope some of the right-wingers who like to beat me up in the Off-Topic Forum take you out for a ride.

Posted May 31, 2005 · May 31, 2005

What's an 'audit log'?

It just gives you a list of who looked at the page, how many times, etc. See below for an example.

Posted May 31, 2005 · May 31, 2005

I am fairly new to this hobby, and my family and I enjoy it immensely. I’ve found that elitism has nothing to do with wealth or fine things. A drug addict will have a “better than you”, elitist, attitude because “you haven’t been through what I’ve gone through.” Elitism is an attitude not dollar sign.

I don’t mind the $30 to support the ability to do the sport. My 13 year old son wanted his own membership so he could strut his independence. I’m not sure that I want to pay another membership just so he can post MO logs (now I know he can), but I may do it because it isn’t that big an expense.

My favorite post is:

a sport that evolves around tupperware and ammo cans.

My coaches use to say, when some one got too excited about the outcome of a game, “there are a billion Chinese people don’t know you played tonight.”

I really enjoy this hobby, but there are 6 billion people on this planet that don’t know what geo caching is.

hcocf

Posted May 31, 2005 · May 31, 2005

...I use MO caches to cut down on the riff-raff...

dadgum.

Posted May 31, 2005 · May 31, 2005

It's an available option and some people use it. That's about all the thought I put into wondering why people make their caches MO.

Everybody has their reasons for everything. I have more than enough to worry about than a cache I can't get to. (There are plenty of those without it being an MOC). When I was a non-paying member it was just another one outside of my radar. When I run out of available caches maybe I'll question the motives of my fellow cachers, but I think it'll take a while.

Posted June 1, 2005 · June 1, 2005

A bit of an elitist, aren't they

Yes - but we don't tell non-PMs about it. Now that your one of us, remember that they aren't...

Posted June 1, 2005 · June 1, 2005

I'm amazed how creative people can be when it comes to inventing reasons why they are placing MO caches when in fact it's just plain elitism.

Rather judgemental.

Let's analyze as77 and elitism. Elitism suggests a superior attitude of ones perspective over someone else and their social postion in some regard. Seems to me as77 is one of these backdoor elitists that one runs across so often these day. Raise some kind of moralistic social complaint against others to gain a superior attitude of ones perspective over someone else and their social postion . I ask, who IS the elitist here?

I have over 60 caches. I think I have 3 or 4 mo caches. To suggest that there is some sort of social inequity here is rediculous. It's just a game folks. Quit trying to turn it into some kind of socialist crusade.

Posted June 1, 2005 · June 1, 2005

Some property owners that allow caches feel better about having the option of it being members only. They will know they will get a bit less traffic, and the people who will be finding the cache are probably more into playing by all the rules. (not that non-members aren't...)

It can be a good selling point to get that container in certain spots.

(coming from someone who has hid a couple in the spots that had issues.... doh!)

Posted June 2, 2005 · June 2, 2005

Let's analyze as77 and elitism. Elitism suggests a superior attitude of ones perspective over someone else and their social postion in some regard. Seems to me as77 is one of these backdoor elitists that one runs across so often these day. Raise some kind of moralistic social complaint against others to gain a superior attitude of ones perspective over someone else and their social postion . I ask, who IS the elitist here?

Well, if we continue your logic then the outcome is that you are the most elitist because you used this complaint against me to "gain a superior attitude of your perspective over mine", or whatever you said. Of course by saying this I become even more elitist than you :grin: So why don't we just drop this rather ill-defined concept?

Posted June 2, 2005 · June 2, 2005

So why don't we just drop this...

Good idea.

Posted June 2, 2005 · June 2, 2005

The primary purpose of the "members only" cache is to prevent cache theft.

I think that's the dumbest reason...

90+% of the caches that go missing are either muggled or weathered.... Neither of which will making them members only prohibit.

Posted June 2, 2005 · June 2, 2005

The primary purpose of the "members only" cache is to prevent cache theft.

I think that's the dumbest reason...

90+% of the caches that go missing are either muggled or weathered.... Neither of which will making them members only prohibit.

I didn't say that MO caches were designed to prevent caches from "going missing". I said they were designed to prevent them from being STOLEN. There is a huge difference. Of course most caches that disappear aren't targetted by cache thieves - but there are more than a few documented cases of thieves systematically stealing caches in areas.

If you do a search, you can find several discussions of MO caches and cache theft. The most recent wasn't that long ago.

INSERTED: Post by Jeremy about MO caches and cache theft.

I think EraSeek is onto something, btw.

sd

Edited June 2, 2005 by southdeltan

Posted June 2, 2005 · June 2, 2005

I've cached for about 5 months without being a Premium Member, and then the rest of the way as a Premium Member. Lack of access to Members Only caches for that first 5 months didn't affect my enjoyment of this sport.

I can see the potential elitism as an issue if people's livelihood was affected by Geocaching, like access to food, shelter, and other resources critical to survival. (I can already see a humorous interpretation of this )

However, since there are other ways to exercise our "Pursuit of Happiness," I am not too worried about the perceived elitism of MO caches.

I would complain, of course, if MO caches baited non-members to visit then force them to sign up as a Premium Member just when they were about to experience the joy of the find. Since non-members aren't supposed to see the listing to begin with, I see no problems.

I don't think elitism can be eliminated, since there is ALWAYS someone who's better than you (or thinks he is) at doing something.

Edited June 2, 2005 by budd-rdc

Posted June 2, 2005 · June 2, 2005

INSERTED: Post by Jeremy about MO caches and cache theft.

Read the linked topic from welch's post below mine as well. It goes on to discuss the success of Subscriber-Only caches as it relates to cache theft.

Posted June 2, 2005 · June 2, 2005

The primary purpose of the "members only" cache is to prevent cache theft.

I think that's the dumbest reason...

90+% of the caches that go missing are either muggled or weathered.... Neither of which will making them members only prohibit.

That's in an area that doesn't have a person who is dedicated to his job of stealing every cache he finds and finds enough to be a power cacher.

Then your ratio changes to about 5% muggled and the rest dumped by Jimmy Hoffa.

Posted June 2, 2005 · June 2, 2005

Those who are placing PMO caches, are they only logging just PM caches and never a MO cache? If they log a non PM cache then that makes them real freeloaders. If so, shame on them (that's lowlife in my eyes). I see none of the above mentioned reasons as any excuse to make a cache PM-only. If you don't want your cache visited, then don't put your listing on GC!!!! Or better - quit geocaching.

Edited June 2, 2005 by baø

Posted June 2, 2005 · June 2, 2005

Those who are placing PMO caches, are they only logging just PM caches and never a MO cache? If they log a non PM cache then that makes them real freeloaders. If so, shame on them (that's lowlife in my eyes). I see none of the above mentioned reasons as any excuse to make a cache PM-only. If you don't want your cache visited, then don't put your listing on GC!!!! Or better - quit geocaching.

Huh?

Posted June 2, 2005 · June 2, 2005

Those who are placing PMO caches, are they only logging just PM caches and never a MO cache? If they log a non PM cache then that makes them real freeloaders. If so, shame on them (that's lowlife in my eyes).

I love it when the "something for nothing" crowd gets up in arms because they refuse to pony up $3.00 to find MOCs. I'm a premium member, and have been one since I started caching a year ago. I'll log any cache that I can find with my gps.

Posted June 2, 2005 · June 2, 2005

Those who are placing PMO caches, are they only logging just PM caches and never a MO cache? If they log a non PM cache then that makes them real freeloaders. If so, shame on them (that's lowlife in my eyes). I see none of the above mentioned reasons as any excuse to make a cache PM-only. If you don't want your cache visited, then don't put your listing on GC!!!! Or better - quit geocaching.

Someone needs a hug.

Posted June 2, 2005 · June 2, 2005

Those who are placing PMO caches, are they only logging just PM caches and never a MO cache? If they log a non PM cache then that makes them real freeloaders. If so, shame on them (that's lowlife in my eyes). I see none of the above mentioned reasons as any excuse to make a cache PM-only. If you don't want your cache visited, then don't put your listing on GC!!!! Or better - quit geocaching.

Someone needs a hug.

Posted June 2, 2005 · June 2, 2005

I'm a premium member, and have been one since I started caching a year ago.

And you are very proud of that because you feel you belong to an elite

I have a question though to anyone who can answer: what percentage of existing caches was placed by premium members?

Posted June 2, 2005 · June 2, 2005

Those who are placing PMO caches, are they only logging just PM caches and never a MO cache? If they log a non PM cache then that makes them real freeloaders. If so, shame on them (that's lowlife in my eyes). I see none of the above mentioned reasons as any excuse to make a cache PM-only. If you don't want your cache visited, then don't put your listing on GC!!!! Or better - quit geocaching.

Huh?

I think the point being made, which I happen to agree with, is that if someone is placing MO caches for any reason other than because of a localized cache maggot/pirate problem, then isn't it fair to only seek/log those caches that are also placed by premium members (regular or MO)? Otherwise, it seems to be a bit hypocritical to log a find on one of my caches, yet at the same time say that I'm not worthy of seeking/logging one of theirs. :lol:

Edited June 2, 2005 by 4x4van

Posted June 2, 2005 · June 2, 2005

Those who are placing PMO caches, are they only logging just PM caches and never a MO cache? If they log a non PM cache then that makes them real freeloaders. If so, shame on them (that's lowlife in my eyes).

I love it when the "something for nothing" crowd gets up in arms because they refuse to pony up $3.00 to find MOCs. I'm a premium member, and have been one since I started caching a year ago. I'll log any cache that I can find with my gps.

Has it ever occured to you that the "something for nothing" crowd maybe have placed both more and better caches than you ever will be capable of Kit Fox?

Edited June 2, 2005 by baø

Posted June 2, 2005 · June 2, 2005

I am not a premium member simply because I dont have a way to pay! haha! Maybe at the rally I can give someone my thirty bucks! I think that there are plenty of caches in my area to keep myself and my children entertained that arent MO's. I don't feel left out because I don't have access to a particular cache. ::yeah, who am I fooling...::: lol Soon they will all be mine...mine I tell you! ::insert evil laugh here:::

Happy hunting!

~Eric

Members-only Caches

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