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...So, now that everyone here has their character slandered by the Columbia Star, how do you feel? ;) ...

After looking at the pictures of the staff, they don't have much of a leg to stand on to be pronouncing random people geeks. At least when I was a kid it was the Jocks who made the official proclimation of who was and wasnt' a Geek. They collectivly miss jockhood.

 

Edit: I have to add, that perhaps in high school some might of been jocks, but once you are out of high school you are no longer a jock, and if you are living in the past enough to think you still have the gift of appointing geekhood, well...that's just pathetic.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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Tuesday May24th Rm. 308 -- Judiciary Committee, 3:00

 

They will be discussing the bill then

Please make sure some well prepared people are there in person.

This is a full commitee meeting and there will be no public comment taken.

 

I'm hoping we can get someone in there to at least get a feel of what is going on and tenor of the discussion between the members.

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Tuesday May24th Rm. 308 -- Judiciary Committee, 3:00

 

They will be discussing the bill then

Please make sure some well prepared people are there in person.

This is a full commitee meeting and there will be no public comment taken.

 

I'm hoping we can get someone in there to at least get a feel of what is going on and tenor of the discussion between the members.

Yes, observing can be very good. Also you never know when you will get the chance to talk to some members in the hallway after the meeting.

 

FYI: I received a response from a committee member today stating that he opposes the bill. He said his brother is a geocacher and that he had done some caching himself. :P

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FYI: I received a response from a committee member today stating that he opposes the bill. He said his brother is a geocacher and that he had done some caching himself.  :)

Wouldn't it be appropriate to identify this committee member, as an ali? :blink:;)

Senator Mescher.

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The Columbia Star came out today with a huge front page photo and article that was obviously taken word for word from Rep Ceips' slanderous position.  The headline reads 'High Tech Game Players Invade Hallowed Ground,' and begins the story by detailing how a downtown Columbia church now has to lock its cemetary because of geocachers.  It also includes at least one photo not taken in SC.  The online version of the Star hasn't been updated yet but I expect that will be done soon. 

 

- T

The story is up there now. Here's the website:

 

http://www.thecolumbiastar.com/news/2005/0...t_Page/001.html

Mr. Warner Montgomery is the publisher and Ms. Mimi Maddock is the Executive Editor of the Columbia Star. The following e-mail was sent to them this evening.

 

Dear Mr. Montgomery & Ms. Maddock,

 

It's a shame that Ms. Rita Haynie neglected to do a small amount of basic research to get her facts straight in her May 20 article on geocaching. Speaking as an individual geocacher (I have no affiliation with Groundspeak, owner of the www.geocaching.com web site), I can tell you that had she spent but a few minutes checking out the Geocaching web site, she would have learned that:


  •  
  • persons placing geocaches are already required to be respectful of archeologically-sensitive sites, historic sites, cemeteries, schools and playgrounds, and the like
     
     
  • contrary to her statement in the article, geocachers are specifically advised NOT to place caches in locations that may raise questions of security, such as bridges, government buildings, airports, and train stations (to name a few)
     
     
  • cache owners are already REQUIRED to have permission of the property owner or custodian prior to placement of a cache -- in the case of public properties such as parks and forest preserves, this is often handled through the existence of policies and procedures enacted by those agencies which implicitly allow the placement of caches as long as they adhere to specific guidelines
     
     
  • geocaching.com has a respected history of acting promptly on the isolated occasions when illegal or inappropriate cache placements are brought to their attention, removing the cache listing from their service
     
     
  • geocaching.com also acts responsibly in revoking access privileges from the very infrequent site users who engage in irresponsible, disrespectful, or illegal behavior while participating in geocaching activities
     

All geocache placements are subject to review by a volunteer geocaching.com staff member, who uses all information available to verify that new geocache placements adhere strictly to both geocaching.com guidelines and all public use restrictions of which the reviewer can reasonably be aware. Any property owner or caretaker (such as a cemetery administrator) who discovers that an undesired cache is located on their property need only contact geocaching.com, and the listing will be promptly disabled. In addition, the volunteer reviewers will often contact another local cacher to assure that the cache is physically removed if the original cache owner or the property owner does not do so on their own.

 

Understandably, it is impossible for each reviewer to be aware of every local ordinance and "no trespassing" sign, and they necessarily rely on conscientious cachers to abide by local restrictions. In the rare occasions that there have been local restrictions which appear to be violated by a cache placement, bringing these to the attention of the reviewers has ensured that not only is the immediate cache in question dealt with appropriately, but that future proposed cache placements can be reviewed for adherence to those laws. In the case of a sizeable property such as a cemetery, which might not be clearly within the scope of local or state laws, the owner or caretaker need only advise geocaching.com as to their requirements (prohibition of any caches whatsoever, or guidelines as to permissible use of the location) and all caches will be reviewed in accordance with their directions.

 

With regard to the behavior of individual cache hunters, unfortunately there is no practical alternative but to deal with them on a case-by-case basis. As noted above, the extremely small number of cachers who engage in illegal, inappropriate, disrespectful, or unethical behavior will have their access to the geocaching.com site revoked.  Unfortunately, there will always be individuals who find it difficult to conduct themselves with a modicum of decorum, as is also demonstrated (for example) by people who answer cell phone calls in the middle of a funeral. It is not just the occasional geocacher who might act disrespectfully in a hallowed or historic space; should ALL visitors be banned because A FEW of them might misbehave?

 

Ms. Haynie's disingenuous citation, out of context, from the May 2005 issue of "Governing" magazine, describing a "curious ritual" associated with geocaching is clearly intended to conjure up images of occult rites and cast a negative light on the activity. In fact, the original light-hearted comment was part of a lengthy article presenting an overall positive view of geocaching, presented by an author who actually took time to learn something first-hand about the hobby.

 

It's unfortunate that Ms. Haynie's article was so full of misinformation. The last line of the article advises the reader to "go to www.geocaching.com for more information about the practice or sport." It's apparent that Ms. Haynie did not do so herself -- or, if she did, she failed to investigate the site thoroughly. Geocaching has brought thousands of people to thousands of locations that they never would have discovered on their own. In virtually all cases, these visitors come with a sense of respect and discovery, and leave with a sense of awe, beauty, and dignity appropriate to the site they have visited. This is the very reason why forward-thinking land managers such as Cleveland Metroparks (http://www.clemetparks.com/recreation/geocaching/index.asp) actively work with geocachers to develop constructive and creative avenues for visitors to discover the history and beauty surrounding them.

 

Sincerely,

<WascoZooKeeper's real name, city, and phone number>

While I had several reliable people vet my statements for completeness, fairness, and accuracy, and very much appreciate their comments which I incorporated into my final draft, I am solely responsible for my letter's contents.

 

Edit: sent them a correction, I had miscopied the reporter's name as "Rita" when it is actually "Rachel". :blink:

Edited by WascoZooKeeper
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...The story is up there now.  Here's the website:

 

http://www.thecolumbiastar.com/news/2005/0...t_Page/001.html

I sent an email to the general manager. I pointed out that one or more of his staff would likely become hooked on geocaching and that I'd make the introduction to some locals who could show them what geocaching is first hand, if the locals didn't beat me to the punch and offer directly.

 

A few other bases were covered as well. I kept it short. That's hard to do sometimes. ;)

I obviously didn't. :)

 

:blink:

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This may be just a tangent on a technicality, but...

 

How does the wording of the bill affect the use of the GPS devices installed on delivery trucks and public utility maintainence vehicles and such?

 

I know there are all kinds of businesses which monitor their employees (and their vehicles) and other organizations which use GPS throughout the state for similar purposes. Will these now be outlawed in the historic areas and regions outlined in the bill?

 

Just curious.

 

(Sorry if I missed something.)

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How does the wording of the bill affect the use of the GPS devices installed on delivery trucks and public utility maintainence vehicles and such?

At present it doesn't.

Yep. I know there is alot to read back through, but the wording was changed to specifically cover geocaching and letterboxing.

 

Kenneth

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FYI: I received a response from a committee member today stating that he opposes the bill. He said his brother is a geocacher and that he had done some caching himself.  :huh:

Wouldn't it be appropriate to identify this committee member, as an ali? :P:P

Senator Mescher.

Checking Mescher's bio, it appears he may be an influential senator. He has served in the Senate since 1993. He is chairman of the General committee and a member of:

  • Education
  • Fish, Game and Forestry
  • Judiciary
  • Labor, Commerce and Industry

This is a person who might be very helpful to our cause. He must know almost everyone in the senate, and he obviously understands the workings of that body. He could have a great deal of influence on some of the other, uncommitted senators, and be a great help in educating the senate about geocaching.

 

(He also holds the BSA Silver Beaver Award for service to youth.) :huh::o

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I thought "kick the bucket" was slang for pass away. I didn't know there was a game called that.

If it's the same as "kick the can", then yes, it's a game. My kids were taught it by the neighborhood kids when we did a home exchange in Maryland a few years ago. It's a kind of hide and seek game, where the hider evades the seeker by getting back to a strategically placed trash can (say, on the sidewalk) and kicks it over. It's a cool way to announce to anyone within earshot that a new game is about to start. :P

 

(I hope that this isn't something which every American knows, and I've just insulted you all by assuming that you might confuse "bucket" and "can"...)

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I went to the meeting today along with several other members of the Geocaching Community. Rep Ceips was given the opportunity to present the Bill to the Committee. There was much discussion among the Senators who jokingly asked if anyone wanted to speak against the Bill. When Sissy raised her hand, the Committee was made aware seemingly for the first that there might another side to this issue. Against strong protests from Senators urging the Bill to be sent to the full Senate, the Chairman recognized our right to be heard and sent the Bill to Subcommittee for public comment and review. That Subcommittee Hearing has not yet been scheduled.

 

We discussed the Bill with the State Archaeologist and the DNR Enforcement Head in the hallway while the Committee considered other matters. Several Senators came out into the hallway, having heard our elevated discussion level, and asked us about our position. They were very surprised to hear that we had disabled all of the cemetary caches as soon as we were aware that they had offended anyone and asked us if Rep Ceips was aware of that! So that is one thing to focus on. We have been very responsive as SC Geocachers. We have acted in good faith and have shown a willingness to work with anyone who has any issue with Geocaching. We are passionate ambassadors for the Natural and Historic Treasures of SC. As geocaching is being pursued in SC now, is there need for legislation? This is especially true in light of there having been an issue that we truly and strongly addressed without the need of any laws.

 

- T of TandS

Edited by tands
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If we hadn't been there it would have been all over. Strong voices on the committee for the bill are Senators Knotts, Lourie, and Sheheen. Any of their constituents would be wise to contact these legislators. Also, Mescher did not attend the hearing for unknown reasons.

 

- T of TandS

Edited by tands
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Tourism in Cemeteries

 

Lowcountry and Resort Islands

Tourism Commission and Visitor’s Center

(843) 717-3090

(800) 528-6870

www.southcarolinalowcountry.com

 

African American heritage sites

African American Churches — There are many historic churches to visit in the Beaufort area.

African American cemeteries — Several African American cemeteries can be found on Hilton Head Island.

 

This is a partial list from the Mar/Apr 2005 TravelBound! webpage. Hmmm...looks like someone is promoting tourism in African American cemeteries in Beaufort County! Isn't this how H3777 got started? I expect that the same constituents will contact Rep. Ceips and demand a bill be proposed requiring tourists to have written permission before visiting any of these South Carolina treasures.

Edited by Swamp Thing
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This is a partial list from the Mar/Apr 2005 TravelBound! webpage. Hmmm...looks like someone is promoting tourism in African American cemeteries in Beaufort County! Isn't this how H3777 got started? I expect that the same constituents will contact Rep. Ceips and demand a bill be proposed requiring tourists to have written permission before visiting any of these South Carolina treasures.

I was thinking the same thing about the article in the June 2005 issue of Southern Living.

 

On page 39 there's a story called "Take a Stroll in Beaufort". (I couldn't find a link to it on www.southernliving.com)

 

There are links to www.thespiritofoldbeaufort.com and www.gullahngeechietours.net. The later is an African-American heritiage tour.

 

sd

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The Travel Bound magizine has a link to Lowcountry & Resort Island Tourism Commission as well as many of the city and county tourism board. I am thinking of sending an email to each informing them of the proposed bill and its impact on "our kind" traveling to their tourism spots, fact that we are only in all 50 states and more than 200 countries. Included in it would be links to the other states travel boards that was posted earlier, mention of AAA's Route 66 caching summer, Jeep's and the Salvation Army's Travel Bug involvement. Keeping it short and positve with current contact information.

 

What do you think? I don't want to use any ammo that the group back in SC is planning on using and I am a little to far to attend the meetings right now.

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Just out of curiosity -- has anyone written any letters to the editor yet? I subscribe to The State but haven't seen one yet. (Don't get the Greenville News. Need to ask my in-laws about the Post and Courier.) Didn't know if that wasn't a priority at the moment, or if people had written and hadn't been published, or what was going on there.

 

By the way (as many have already stated) thanks Sissy, and everyone else who represented us at the meeting yesterday!

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I'm working on one for the Greenville Fishwrap, but with end-of-school-year duties, just haven't had time to finish it. I'll post here for feedback before submitting.

 

Let me also add my thanks to all those that have been working on this on behalf of SC geocachers.

 

...and on another note...

 

According to the website Dumb Laws, according to Spartanburg City Regulations, it is illegal to eat watermelons in Magnolia Street Cemetery.

 

So just don't hide your GPSr in a watermelon.

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I've been working on a letter to the editor myself, but it's extremely long. I'm trying to cut it down a bit. I'll post it as soon as I'm somewhat happy with it, to get everyone else's opinion on it before I send it in.

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Tips for being published

(According to The Greenville News)

 

• Write a brief letter (maximum of 250 words) on a timely public issue, preferably one that has been covered by this newspaper.

• Make your point quickly.

• Include your name, home address and a daytime telephone number. (If you don't include your name, address and telephone number, we can't consider your letter for publication.

• Remember, all letters are subject to editing.

• Most letters are edited for length, clarity, grammar and good taste.

• Choose your words carefully. Letters that contain potentially libelous or slanderous statements will likely be edited or rejected.

• We prefer to have letters submitted in typed or electronically transmitted form. However, we will accept handwritten letters, providing the handwriting is legible.

• If you are sending handwritten letters by fax, please make sure the writing is dark enough to transmit clearly.

• Letter writers are limited to no more than one letter published every 30 days.

 

I think most newspapers use similiar guidelines for letters to the editor.  :ph34r:  :o

Please keep all letters succinct to optimize their chance of publication (longer editorials and columns are generally printed by invitation only). :unsure::huh:

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I have written, emailed, and called and left a message to my local senator, with no reply. I'm sick of all this, I'm moving all my caches over to georgia, or into my small 1 acre backyard, i'll set up a grill and a pick-nick table for cachers only. :o:ph34r::huh::unsure:

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I have been hesitant to provide any examples of letters to an editor for two main reasons.

 

I do not want to put words into anybody’s mouth; we all have our own opinions, and that’s what this is about. So consider the following example, form your own opinion about one thing and write about it. In the example below, I have chosen to target the journalistic standards of a specific reporter and publication. You may have an opinion about school, commerce, local geocaching organizations or Rep. Ceips, etc.

 

My second reason for hesitation is, letters should be generated on an individual basis. Too much copying and pasting will result in a lot of letters that look alike, or have identical tones. If an editor receives two or more similar letters, he is likely to believe that he is being spammed, which in reality, he is.

 

The following letter is not perfect, but those are the best kinds. Editors want to print letters written by people, not machines. This letter is just under 200 words, an ideal length in the eyes of most editors.

 

I will not be sending this letter because I’m from a different state. If someone local to Columbia wants to use this letter, please PM me, and it’s yours. I ask that you not use this letter without my permission for the reasons stated above.

 

 

To the editor:

 

Your recent article about geocaching in cemeteries is yellow journalism at its finest. Ms. Haynie’s reference to “kick the bucket” is misleading. Geocaching is not a game, it is a hobby for most.

 

I know many geocachers who involve their families and are excellent stewards of our historic areas.

 

Instead of properly researching this new phenomenon to present a reasonable, fair article for your readers, Ms Haynie chose to use language like “gadget geeks” and “curious rituals,” which in reality is basically equivalent to signing a guest book at a historic site.

 

She failed to mention the geocacher mantra: CITO. It means Cache In Trash Out. Yes, geocachers are proud of their reputation of cleaning up the areas they visit. Now that’s really curious. Can’t you just see a bunch of gadget geeks performing curious rituals and picking up all the trash around at the same time?

 

Geocachers are not gadget geeks anymore than birders or hikers. Geocachers are responsible people. There are public schools all around us that teach geocaching in one form or another. Did Ms. Haynie take the time to research that?

 

Sincerely,

__________

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The thing that gets me about all this is that there is no proof, or even an accusation of a geocacher breaking a law. If one is caught trepassing, or whatever, he should be prosecuted under existing statutes. There is no need to turn law abiding geocachers into criminals.

 

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only real power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible to live without breaking laws." - Ayn Rand

Edited by briansnat
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The following letter is not perfect, but those are the best kinds. Editors want to print letters written by people, not machines. This letter is just under 200 words, an ideal length in the eyes of most editors.

 

I will not be sending this letter because I’m from a different state.

I think its awesome you came up with a template, more or less, for others to use.

 

I am just curious why you would not advocate anyone and everyone interested in caching to write a letter. I understand congress and representatives listen to their consituents but the more letters they receive, I believe, the stronger the message...even if they are from "external" sources.

 

If all the interested cachers in the US (or beyond) wrote letters concerning SC legislation, it would have more of an effect of indicating how many people there are who are interested in the outcome of this event.

 

(Just my 2¢ worth)

 

:unsure:

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I have written, emailed, and called and left a message to my local senator, with no reply. I'm sick of all this, I'm moving all my caches over to georgia, or into my small 1 acre backyard, i'll set up a grill and a pick-nick table for cachers only. :D:):unsure::D

Two additional things you can do is not vote for this senator and volunteer to help on the campaign of someone running against this senator, the next time elections roll around. They obviously do not represent you and your interests. Maybe the next person will.

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Question: Does Groundspeak realize If geocaching is banned in South Carolina they would lose a whole bunch of money , when people start cancelling thier accounts. I probally would. Why are they not involved in all this?? :unsure:

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Question: Does Groundspeak realize If geocaching is banned in South Carolina they would lose a whole bunch of money , when people start cancelling thier accounts. I probally would. Why are they not involved in all this?? :unsure:

They are. They are also not in the habit of making their efforts known. I know Hydee spoke with the State Archaelogist and that's all I know of their efforts. They could be doing more or coordinating more but someone wiht more direct knowledge would have to confirm.

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Question: Does Groundspeak realize If geocaching is banned in South Carolina they would lose a whole bunch of money , when people start cancelling thier accounts. I probally would. Why are they not involved in all this??  :unsure:

They are. They are also not in the habit of making their efforts known. I know Hydee spoke with the State Archaelogist and that's all I know of their efforts. They could be doing more or coordinating more but someone wiht more direct knowledge would have to confirm.

You would think if they were, we would be seeing it in the interactions with the legislators ...

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Question: Does Groundspeak realize If geocaching is banned in South Carolina they would lose a whole bunch of money , when people start cancelling thier accounts. I probally would. Why are they not involved in all this??  :unsure:

I think that a lot of us are having a knee jerk reaction to this proposed law. Geocaching will not be "banned" in SC. It only requires that permission be requested and given in writing. If written permission is given to place a cache, then that can also be written to cover the seekers. This may effectively end all caches in these locations since Groundspeak may not want to list caches in these locations to prevent possible infractions.

 

But geocaching will continue in SC in spite of this law. This is not the end of geocaching as we know it!

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But geocaching will continue in SC in spite of this law. This is not the end of geocaching as we know it!

True, but the potential negative future impact of this piece of legislation, both in SC and other states, still remains a legitimate concern. Once a single law is passed restricting any aspect of how geocaching can legally take place, legislators in SC or other states can use the law as a basis for considering other, stricter laws which impact the activity.

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But geocaching will continue in SC in spite of this law.  This is not the end of geocaching as we know it!

True, but the potential negative future impact of this piece of legislation, both in SC and other states, still remains a legitimate concern. Once a single law is passed restricting any aspect of how geocaching can legally take place, legislators in SC or other states can use the law as a basis for considering other, stricter laws which impact the activity.

Yes, laws tend to have a ripple effect. When San Francisco banned smoking in bars about 10 years ago a lot of people thought it was ridiculious and it would never fly in places like New York, or their state.

 

If this passes, other state legislatures will take notice.

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I'm looking at 24 months after this bill (hopefully not pass) passes, that we'll go on our merry old ways of geocaching, or when the Mrs. ceips gets booted, that i'll go back to geocaching as normal or less of normal. this law would be forgotten. like so many other stupid laws , Like its legal to hit your wife at 12 noon on thursday's on the courthouse steps in Jasper County. or the one about you could only keep 3 live gators in one pen at a time. I'm really thinking of going Pirate, develop a bunch of Sudoku versed pirate caches on a seperate blog page. Oh I need to shut-up. I live in Ridgeland, SC 22 miles north of Beaufort, Sc where all this started.

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A sub-committee was formed and will likely meet today after general session or in the morning. This has not been established yet ...

 

The sub committee will consist of the following:

 

Chair - Senator James H. "Jim" Ritchie, Jr.

District 13 - Greenville, Spartanburg & Union Cos.

Contact Address:

(H) 302 South Pine St., Spartanburg, 29302

Bus. (864) 585-2275 Home (864) 585-6047

© 608 Gressette Bldg., Columbia, 29202

Bus. (803) 212-6032 Home

 

E-Mail Address: JHR@scsenate.org

 

Senator Joel Lourie

District 22 - Kershaw & Richland Cos.

Contact Address:

(H) P.O. Box 6212, Columbia, 29260

Bus. (803) 765-9200 ext.257 Home (803) 787-5802

© 504 Gressette Bldg., Columbia, 29202

Bus. (803) 212-6116 Home

 

E-Mail Address: JBL@scsenate.org

 

Senator Vincent A. Sheheen

District 27 - Chesterfield, Kershaw & Lancaster Cos.

Contact Address:

(H) P.O. Drawer 10, Camden, 29020

Bus. (803) 432-4391 Home

© 506 Gressette Bldg., Columbia, 29202

Bus. (803) 212-6124 Home

 

E-Mail Address: VS@scsenate.org

 

Senator Kevin L. Bryant

District 3 - Anderson Co.

Contact Address:

(H) 104-A North Ave., Anderson, 29625

Bus. (864) 202-8394 Home (864) 225-0990

© 501 Gressette Bldg., Columbia, 29202

Bus. (803) 212-6100 Home

 

E-Mail Address: BRYANTK@scsenate.org

 

Senator George E. "Chip" Campsen III

District 43 - Berkeley & Charleston Cos.

Contact Address:

(H) 360 Concord St., Suite 201, Charleston, 29401

Bus. (843) 722-0123 Home (843) 886-8454

© 604 Gressette Bldg., Columbia, 29202

Bus. (803) 212-6016 Home

 

E-Mail Address: CAMPSEN@scsenate.org

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