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South Carolina Senate Activity


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Please, someone tell me that there is a coordinated, intelligent effort to have this legislation defeated in the Senate. Please tell me that somewhere in South Carolina, you cachers are working together, off this public forum, to prevent the passage of this law.

Yes, we are working on it.

 

We do not discuss everything we're doing because the other side is reading these forums. You can see that in how the bill has been changed. Of course, they don't know enough about geocaching to write an intelligent bill that will cover what they want to cover. Right now, the bill is written in such a way as it has a loophole I can drive a Mack truck through. Right now, it only restricts letterboxes and physical caches. This would not stop someone from creating a virtual tour of every rural Black cemetery in the state, much less Beaufort, so the law is worthless.

 

BTW, Cieps mentioned folks climbing fences at night--which at this point I doubt. Contrary to what she said about trespassing, climbing fences with a closed gate between the hours of 6pm and 6am is illegal. One of us will be scouring as much text and arguments for such double talk. If they've used anything that is already law, I say urge to not even consider it. We are talking about creating law where law doesn't aleady cover it. Otherwise, it's not needed.

 

So, yes, more is going on behind the scenes.

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Ceips says the tresspassing laws have a loophole that doesn't protect places such as cemtaries from people jumping the fence and coming in at night? OK heres a thought. instead of going after a group for political reasons, how about fixing your tresspassing laws?

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Well, it looks like going to the press won't help our situation.

Good to know the press likes to take a lie and spread it around.

My thoughts exactly. The article was very one-sided, and the alteration of the title in the Greenville News version really doesn't help.

 

Is anyone familiar with this Jennifer Holland of AP? I haven't checked the State or the Charleston papers to see if this or any other article has run in them.

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Ceips says the tresspassing laws have a loophole that doesn't protect places such as cemtaries from people jumping the fence and coming in at night? OK heres a thought. instead of going after a group for political reasons, how about fixing your tresspassing laws?

Uh, no. She says the laws don't cover geocaching. Well, duh!

 

No, what she is refering to is the cemteries that don't have a fence or a gate to close. In this respect she is right. In order to protect a property such as this you post a sign or give notice. Can't really argue about that angle.

 

The issue is if geocachers are causing harm. A factual answer would be no.

 

Are some cachers flip? Sure, but who isn't? Did you catch the exchange on the floor about wax in the ears and kissing? I mean, come on.

 

I don't have a problem with folks not wanting us on their land. Thing is, what made them not want us there? Was it because we tend to pick up trash on our trips? Was it because we are mostly middle-class white folks? Not Baptists? What? It certainly wasn't because we were damaging anything or being disruptive.

 

So what we put trinkets on headstones. It not as if we left them there. The Jewish cemetery had plenty of rocks on the markers and those were put there for a reason by the folks visiting.

 

She isn't trying to fix trespassing laws. She is targeting geocachers and letterboxers directly. Her last amendment proves that because it removed an earlier amendment which restricted all games and recreation. No, she's after geocachers. Why? Maybe because we stole her slam dunk and she's having to work for it. And we ain't done yet.

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yes i did catch the debate ending in a kiss, when is the kiss going to be televised?

 

she did say the current laws do not protect them from geocachers climbing over the fences at night, so the ones she referred that lis,er i mean comment about was a fenced in cemetary.

 

does she not realize on the first reading she stood up there and addressed the entire house and answered a point blank question with , there has been no damage created by any geocachers to this point. So something that has been taking place for several years and has not caused an ounce of damage is damaging? Then she has begun with the damage caused. Someone who is good with video should be able to take the feeds of her comments and snip them together to make a nice anti-political piece showing how she has contradicted herself just to get this through. would be an interesting piece for some senators to see that this bill has evolved as she needed to make it through the house.

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I've seen several posts about letting SC know geocachers wouldn't be spending money in their state if this law passes (I even wrote the tourism department). If my somewhat partial knowledge on SC tourism is correct - they don't care.

 

I'm basing that statement on the conflict between minority groups like the NAACP vs the State of SC on the matter of flying/removing the Confederate flag from the state house. SC didn't remove it and groups like the NAACP said they were boycotting SC. I "believe" the official boycott is still in effect (not 100% sure). I do remember seeing 100s of protestors clogging up interstate rest stops when this was in full force.

 

My overall point is some people might not travel to SC to spend their money, but probably not enough to cause SC any concern. If well organized (and funded) groups like the NAACP can't get SC to change their mind, a few hundred geocachers aren't likely going to be able to do it (in terms of financial loss)

 

E

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Is anyone familiar with this Jennifer Holland of AP?  I haven't checked the State or the Charleston papers to see if this or any other article has run in them.

It's on The State newspaper's website:

 

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/business/11634601.htm

 

I'm guessing it's actually in the paper, too. (Mine's at the house. Didn't get a chance to read it before I left for work. I'll check tonight.)

 

I'll have to ask my in-laws if it's in the Charleston Post and Courier newspaper, though I don't see it on the Post and Courier website.

Edited by RandLD
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Well, it looks like going to the press won't help our situation.  This AP article came out this morning in the Greenville News...

 

South Carolina bill cracks down on high-tech scavenger hunt

 

...although in the paper version it was entitled, "Bill cracks down on high-tech scavengers" - not the same thing at all.

That has to be the most biased, uniformed piece of trash I've ever read about our sport.

 

Geocachers "have insulted many families with inappropriate photos of people and knickknacks on headstones and sometimes using the land as a toilet."

 

This toilet lie certainly has legs.

Edited by briansnat
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Clearly, the reporter got the story directly from Ceips. She has to get stories like this printed to sway the Senate. Contact the reporter and others reporters. (Reporters from competing organizations love to debunk their competitors.)

 

Get a good communication package together and get it in distribution, or else, you may as well find a new hobby.

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Well, it looks like going to the press won't help our situation.

Good to know the press likes to take a lie and spread it around.

My thoughts exactly. The article was very one-sided, and the alteration of the title in the Greenville News version really doesn't help.

 

Is anyone familiar with this Jennifer Holland of AP? I haven't checked the State or the Charleston papers to see if this or any other article has run in them.

I don't think it was one-sided.

I read it twice and they presented views from both those for and against the bill.

They used oposing representatives and citizens for and against it.

 

Now for getting the facts....that is another thing.

 

Kenneth

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I'm very glad to hear there is a SCGA meeting scheduled for this weekend. OK, here are some tips:

 

1) Choose a leader - a single individual who can be the spokesperson for SCGA. This person should speak to the press, senators, etc. By having a single person, you offer a consistent message who builds credibility and minimizes the chances of being outmaneuvered in debate.

 

2) Prepare a statement - this should professionally and succinctly explain why this bill should not pass and how existing laws and guidelines are more than sufficient. It should also address the lies that have been perpetuated point by point.

 

3) Prepare corroborating evidence - newspaper articles covering geocaching activities positively (including articles from outside South Carolina). Letters from the synagogue (i.e. problem solved, no ill will), the state archeologist, etc, written permissions already obtained for caches on private property, and permissions for caches on church property. Also include information on the total amount of human traffic generated by a cache. I think people don't realize how few logs a cache will receive in a year (i.e. this is not a BIG problem). I think people greatly overestimate the impact. This whole thing should be a complete packet you gave fax or mail to someone upon request.

 

4) Poll the Senators - get a position from each one of them. If you have to educate them before they can commit, so much the better. Get to them before our opponents do.

 

5) Issue a press release - this is a press friendly version of the aformentioned statement. It should quote specific CITO events, other cacher do-gooderness, etc. A good title would be "Geocachers: More Good Than Harm?". It should be written in newspaper article format. That way, local papers can easily copy and paste to create 'instant articles'. For distribution look at prweb.com.

 

6) Letter writing - All out-of-state cachers should feel an obligation to write to the tourism board, chambers of commerce, and newspapers. Make your voice heard. In-state cachers should be writing to newspapers, calling TV stations to report on a weekend CITO event, and speaking with their Senators as individuals (as opposed to the official line of the SCGA).

 

7) Start NOW - the time is NOW. Let this bill die in committee because of the hard work you did BEFORE the committee met to discuss it. Your opponents are organized professionals high on a recent victory.

 

Reality bites. You can work hard or work smart. Only one way is the path to victory. Understand the system and use it to your benefit.

Edited by Crazy Aaron
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I just want to thank those who are trashing the article that was written today by the AP because you are overlooking the fact that yes even if their are lies in there from the other side. That is nothing new.

 

Everyone is overlooking the face she wrote a FAIR article she got the House Reps(which we all know has some lies and sadly some merit) side and then she got the side of the geocachers (Heidi from Groundspeak and Jon) Least someone on ourside is willing to talk to the media and give our side to the story.

 

Frankly I do not care if you wanna rip me up on this, it was written, yes it has lies but lets least respect the people who stood up for us in the article.

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Just want to say I agree with kennethpruett and geoholic28. The article does present both sides. Yes, it does sound like the side supporting the bill came from Ceips or at least from her comments on the House floor, but it is nice to have information supporting our side, too.

 

Now we just need to clear up the misinformation presented in favor of the bill ...

 

and knowing that it's in the Columbia and the Greenville paper at least, we know at least two papers to contact to "set the record straight".

Edited by RandLD
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I just want to thank those who are trashing the article that was written today by the AP because you are overlooking the fact that yes even if their are lies in there from the other side. That is nothing new.

 

Everyone is overlooking the face she wrote a FAIR article she got the House Reps(which we all know has some lies and sadly some merit) side and then she got the side of the geocachers (Heidi from Groundspeak and Jon) Least someone on ourside is willing to talk to the media and give our side to the story.

 

Frankly I do not care if you wanna rip me up on this, it was written, yes it has lies but lets least respect the people who stood up for us in the article.

The online versions are very, very different from the version actually printed in the Greenville News. First, there was the change in headline. In the actual article, almost all of it was from Ceips point of view, with only the single quote from Heidi Roth. All of the comments from John Barry and Jonathan Leader were omitted in the printed version.

 

Holland may have written a very fair and balanced article, but for whatever reason, the Greenville News chose to print only one side. It's strange that their website does at least contain the full version.

 

For what it's worth, one of the bill's sponsors, Dwight Loftis, is from Greenville.

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The online versions are very, very different from the version actually printed in the Greenville News.  First, there was the change in headline.  In the actual article, almost all of it was from Ceips point of view, with only the single quote from Heidi Roth.  All of the comments from John Barry and Jonathan Leader were omitted in the printed version.

 

Holland may have written a very fair and balanced article, but for whatever reason, the Greenville News chose to print only one side.  It's strange that their website does at least contain the full version.

 

For what it's worth, one of the bill's sponsors, Dwight Loftis, is from Greenville.

 

It may be possible that they made changes after print when they got more info, like maybe callbacks from people they contacted for comment.

 

The conspiracy theory :unsure: side of me thinks that it could be that they know most of the people reading print are older and not high-tech, thus supporting the bill more than those who read the online version who would be more likely to accept high-tech.

 

Kenneth

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Rep. Wallace Scarborough, R-Charleston. "If we don't protect the history now, we're going to lose it."

 

The biggest way history is lost is for people to forget about it. Preventing ordinary people from visiting those graves and battlefields is the best way to NOT protect it.

 

Luna

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Being that Cieps is a Repbulican, The Greenville News is very much a anti-liberal paper. So it does not shock me they edited everything good for us bad for her out of it.

 

Now if anyone wants to e-mail the reporter, you can

jmholland@ap.org

I believe you hit the nail on the head.

 

Generally speaking, the Greenville News has published articles favorable to Geocaching, such as this July 2001 article featuring yours truly...

 

http://greenvilleonline.com/news/2001/07/22/200107229347.htm

 

This one, in the Greenville New's weekly paper called The Link, published in February 2004, is still fairly favorable...

 

http://www.upstatelink.com/outdoors/2004/0...04020924498.htm

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The Geocaching article from the Greenville News just showed up on WIS-TV News in Columbia, SC. Because this article went out on AP it's going to be picked up by multiple newspapers and television stations. The article that I read online is a fair article that sums up things to this point.

Let's use this press to our advantage!

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The Geocaching article from the Greenville News just showed up on WIS-TV News in Columbia, SC. Because this article went out on AP it's going to be picked up by multiple newspapers and television stations. The article that I read online is a fair article that sums up things to this point.

Let's use this press to our advantage!

PD the print article in The Greenville News was edited big time only one comment from both Heidi and Jon were mentioned. I posted the reporters e-mail address if anyone wants to write her

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I suggest writing letters to the editor in response to the article.

Realize that letters to the editor can and probably will be edited as well. Just be ready for that.

Often letters to the editor are not edited if kept short and are edited simply by cutting for space. Assuming the paper is reputable anyway.....

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PD the print article in The Greenville News was edited big time only one comment from both Heidi and Jon were mentioned.

 

Uh-oh. Somebody's got some 'splaining to do.

I have not seen the print article. I will pick up a Greenville Newspaper today.

It's on page 3 of the Metro section (fortunately not the front page.)

 

I just checked the Spartanburg Herald-Journal, and didn't see anything.

Edited by Beowulf83
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Rep. Wallace Scarborough, R-Charleston. "If we don't protect the history now, we're going to lose it."

 

The biggest way history is lost is for people to forget about it. Preventing ordinary people from visiting those graves and battlefields is the best way to NOT protect it.

 

Luna

BINGO! You get it. Too bad our legislators don't. While they're worried about tupperware being hidden in cemeteries, developers are digging them up and nobody's paying attention to that.

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Just a couple of questions --

 

The bill is now in the Senate Judiciary Committee, right? Is there any way to know:

 

1) When the committee is meeting

2) What the committee's calendar looks like (and are we on it)

3) How things are going / what progress is being made / etc.

 

I've looked around the scstatehouse.net site but couldn't find anything.

 

<edit>

 

Think I found a partial answer on http://www.scstatehouse.net/sess116_2005-2006/gresmeet.htm

 

They're not meeting today, and next week's schedule won't be posted until this afternoon after 3:00. I'll check back then and see what I can find out.

 

And I guess, AFTER they meet, it'll be reflected in the bill itself what happened with it, am I correct? (Just like it currently lists how it's been committed to the Committee on Judiciary ...)

Edited by RandLD
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Another thing that might help the cause is to use exsamples from othere states. I live in ny and up till recently the DEC didnt alow placment in any of there lands. But after alot of work they changed there rules. The NY state parks services has alos reversed there ruleing on it they asked us to work wih them and modify the basic gc rules people from NYGO worked with them and set up a even ground for both the park service and geocachers to beable to enjoy the sport.

Very good point. The examples of bad geocaching behavior weren't limited to just SC. If anyone else knows of an example like this it might be helpfull posting it here.

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Just a couple of questions --

 

The bill is now in the Senate Judiciary Committee, right?  Is there any way to know:

 

1) When the committee is meeting

2) What the committee's calendar looks like (and are we on it)

3) How things are going / what progress is being made / etc.

 

I've looked around the scstatehouse.net site but couldn't find anything.

 

<edit>

 

Think I found a partial answer on http://www.scstatehouse.net/sess116_2005-2006/gresmeet.htm

 

They're not meeting today, and next week's schedule won't be posted until this afternoon after 3:00.  I'll check back then and see what I can find out.

 

And I guess, AFTER they meet, it'll be reflected in the bill itself what happened with it, am I correct?  (Just like it currently lists how it's been committed to the Committee on Judiciary ...)

Their regular meeting is every Tuesday at 3pm. They might not calendar a discussion to report the bill back for consideration this term. It would probably be good for someone to call them and find out, plus attend the Tuesday meeting anyway.

Edited by carleenp
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I wonder why the 100 hours of community service was dropped from the bill.

 

Could it be that it is easy to combine geocaching and community service? Think CITO.

That provision has not been removed.

Doh. How did I miss that.

 

Anyhoo, if this thing becomes law and a geocacher ends up with community service they can do community service and geocache at the same time.

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I suggest writing letters to the editor in response to the article.

I agree.

 

The woman quoted was a pawn used to elicit a specific response that was quoted to give credibility to the story. If she was told the truth both on geocaching and on how she was used, her ire would be justified.

 

Picture her reaction to the Jewish practice of leaving a stone to mark they had been there. And my families practice of laving "Non native plants (aka flowers) just heaped all over" Were I to leave a toy on a childs grave it's entirly fitting though some might call it a trinket. Of course she wasn't talking about geoachers since that's not our practice.

 

Also Carleen should I ever have a need to pay my respects I would think it fitting to leave a Pokemon as a tribute and if a child geocaher wanted to take it they could have it with your blessing. The truth is I would not care if there were 10,000 people telling me that a trinket on an adult grave is an insult. That's just 10,000 peole who don't really know why I would do that and who are not in a position to judge though that's exactly what they are doing.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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Rep. Wallace Scarborough, R-Charleston. "If we don't protect the history now, we're going to lose it."

 

The biggest way history is lost is for people to forget about it. Preventing ordinary people from visiting those graves and battlefields is the best way to NOT protect it.

 

Luna

Exactly. If you protect history and culture from the people who it belongs too, soon enough it's lost and there is no longer any reason to protect it.

 

I've always liked the slogan of the Blue Ribbon Coalition. "Preservation for the people, not from the people".

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I suggest writing letters to the editor in response to the article.

Realize that letters to the editor can and probably will be edited as well. Just be ready for that.

Often letters to the editor are not edited if kept short and are edited simply by cutting for space. Assuming the paper is reputable anyway.....

Most newspapers welcome letters to the editor "...if kept short ." Keep in mind, newspapers are not the internet, where lengthy, descriptive articles are common. Space is at a premium in a printed document.

 

A good letter to an editor should be not more than 5 or 6 concise paragraphs in length.

 

Just because the political leanings of a publisher are often prominent, doesn't mean he isn't interested in reader interaction in the form of letters. Newspapers love letters; they demonstrate that people are actually reading their rag. And the fact that your opinions will be presented in the form of a letter disclaims it from any official position assumed by the publication.

 

Here is a list of SC news agencies. :unsure::ph34r:

 

Edit: Note, correct spelling is important; run it through your spell checker! :blink:

Edited by sept1c_tank
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This CACHE is cosponsored by the Nevada Tourism board. Its had 183 visits since 2004 and I'll be going to it next week. My primary reason for going to Las Vegas for the second year is not because ofthe gambling but because of all the great Geocaches in the desert and the ones that have taught me about the local history.

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I suggest writing letters to the editor in response to the article.

Realize that letters to the editor can and probably will be edited as well. Just be ready for that.

I think my comment came across more harshly than I intended, and I apologize.

 

Thanks, carleenp and sept1c_tank for your comments. That's basically what I was trying to get at -- don't get too long-winded, but also don't get too upset if your letter gets "trimmed" a bit so it will fit in the paper.

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This CACHE is cosponsored by the Nevada Tourism board. Its had 183 visits since 2004 and I'll be going to it next week. My primary reason for going to Las Vegas for the second year is not because ofthe gambling but because of all the great Geocaches in the desert and the ones that have taught me about the local history.

 

I visited Las Vegas on business twice last year, and both times stayed an extra day to geocache at Red Rock Canyon. The city got a fair amount of my money during those two days that it otherwise would not have.

 

I visited Charleston on business last week, had planned to stay two nights so I could geocache in the late afternoon after my business meeting. Because it rained cats and dogs Thursday I cancelled my Thursday night hotel reservation and drove home early.

 

If the impending bans go through I'll leave early regardless of the weather, perhaps spend the night in Augusta, Ga. instead..... I don't think SC understands the financial impact of our small segment of the population.

 

~erik~

Edited by erik88l-r
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...I don't think SC understands the financial impact of our small segment of the population. 

 

~erik~

Last year, I spent 3 weeks on the west coast; my only reason for being there was to geocache and meet other cachers.

 

I think chambers do care. Especially in the smaller communities, the ones many traveling geocachers visit.

 

Like I mentioned in an earlier post, many of these same local chamber members are aspiring politicians, and for that reason, they know a lot of politicians. Not to mention, most of the chamber members are local businessmen, themselves; they know the value of a dollar.

 

Here is a list of chambers in South Carolina. :blink::unsure:

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...I don't think SC understands the financial impact of our small segment of the population. 

 

~erik~

Last year, I spent 3 weeks on the west coast; my only reason for being there was to geocache and meet other cachers. ...

I have been impressed by how many people actually plan vacations around geocaching and meeting other cachers. It's amazing.

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