South Carolina Senate Activity

38.2k · May 17, 2005

What is Geocaching?
Geocaching is an entertaining adventure game for GPS users. Participating in a cache hunt is a good way to take advantage of the wonderful features and capability of a GPS unit. The basic idea is to have individuals and organizations set up caches all over the world and share the locations of these caches on the Internet. GPS users can then use the location coordinates to find the caches. Once found, a cache may provide the visitor with a wide variety of rewards. All the visitor is asked to do is if they get something they should try to leave something for the cache.

Please, please don't use the word "game" in any letters. Sport, activity, hobby, whatever, but not game. The game thing was mentioned repeatedly in the SC debate - "Playing games in our cemeteries" and that seems to be a sticking point.

Other than that, I would tighten your letter up. Shorter is always better. Don't ramble.

This is good advice for all letter writers. Pick out a few key points and state your position as succinctly as possible. There is no need for you to touch on every aspect of our argument.

Long letters generally do not get published and often are not even read. Two to four paragraphs should do it.

24.7k · May 17, 2005

This is becoming my rant of the day zone.

Geocaching and Cemeteries:

Cemeteries are traditional cultural places to people We all have an interest in them for reasons that go beyond our own families. We pay our respects to heroes we have never met. The tomb of the unknown soldier is one such location and by tradition it’s the nameless hero we honor. Abandoned cemeteries long since forgotten to general society still stop and make us wonder about our ancestors because even if they were not directly related, that they came before made our lives now possible. Often they paid a price for this one worthy of our time and consideration.

The main gripe about geocaching is that it’s a game. It’s a Recreational Activity, Sport Hobby. RASH. Perhaps not the best acronym but it’s apt. Geocaching covers a wide range of people with a wide range of skill levels and interests. Almost all agrees its a recreational activity.

An activity is what you do. In that light anyone who uses a cemetery is participating in activates. Walking, Jogging, Biking, Mourning, Lawn Mowing, Sprinkler Fixing, Grave Digging, Surveying, Researching, Reading Headstones, Touring, Sitting, Picnicking, Admiring Art and others to name a few. Geocaching is in this spectrum of viable activities currently practiced in, on, and around cemetery lands.

Since the entire South Carolina Anti Tupperware Bill came along I’ve learned a little. The Jewish have a habit of marking their attendance by leaving a stone on the headstone. Most people I know leave flowers, or flags, or a trinket of some personal meaning. I know of one tree that serves as a memorial. Indians and others have left dream catchers and other items, often handmade in one tree that has become something more than it was with these tributes adorning it. In the case of a cache, the cache is the tribute as viewed by the person who placed it. While others are saying “I was here” the cache says “I was here and moved, and I want you to come and experience what I have as well.” They are sharing something special. When legislatures insult geocachers with a few well placed smarmy quotes, it does nothing to make the world a better place. Yet the simple passive container that they have circled the wagons to defend against actually does. When I sign the log all I’m saying is that I was there, it’s no more than placing a flower, or a stone, and it’s certainly no less. It’s absolutely true that we all react to the somber nature of a cemetery differently. Some use humor. That’s not wrong because there are times when if you can’t laugh, you are going to break down and cry and a lot of us just can’t.

This poem perhaps by Stephan Crane or Bill Knott illustrates this.

The only response

to a child's grave is

to lie down before it and play dead

The truth is if a log reflect humor, it’s because they know this poem to be true and are afraid to let go. Geocaching isn’t the problem. You are legislating how we cope with death, and it’s none of your dadgum business how I or anyone else come to grips with what the future holds for us all.

May 17, 2005

Good "rant of the day", Renegade Knight.

If you ran for political office in SC you'd have my vote.

~erik~

3.8k · May 17, 2005

Tips for being published

(According to The Greenville News)

• Write a brief letter (maximum of 250 words) on a timely public issue, preferably one that has been covered by this newspaper.

• Make your point quickly.

• Include your name, home address and a daytime telephone number. (If you don't include your name, address and telephone number, we can't consider your letter for publication.

• Remember, all letters are subject to editing.

• Most letters are edited for length, clarity, grammar and good taste.

• Choose your words carefully. Letters that contain potentially libelous or slanderous statements will likely be edited or rejected.

• We prefer to have letters submitted in typed or electronically transmitted form. However, we will accept handwritten letters, providing the handwriting is legible.

• If you are sending handwritten letters by fax, please make sure the writing is dark enough to transmit clearly.

• Letter writers are limited to no more than one letter published every 30 days.

I think most newspapers use similiar guidelines for letters to the editor.

3.8k · May 19, 2005

Good Press!

Apologies, if this article has been previously linked:

Guest Column

(Low Country Weekly)

An Insider's Look at the Geocaching Controversy

BY CHUCK WILLIAMS

May 19, 2005

I think that is the best response to the proposed SC geocaching law I have seen yet. It has a few typos and misspellings, but otherwise is well written. I am surprised that it got published that way. I wonder if they will correct it.

Those of you from SC, perhaps you could email the link to your representatives and senators.

May 19, 2005

If I'm not mistaken the author of this article is one of the folks who has spearheaded the fight against this bill. I am proud to know him. Great article Waterbaron!

X

May 19, 2005

The AP article was interesting in that it shed light on the motivation behind this bill. The problem isn't really geocachers or geocaching, it's simply that the locations of previously 'secret' burial grounds are being published on an easily accessible public website. Reminds me of a little skirmish between geocaching and cavers a few years back when cavers were upset that the locations of previously 'secret' caves were being published on an easily accessible public website. They, too, accused geocachers of urinating in caves (never knew talking about p was so effective in getting people p.o.'ed about something).

The problem isn't geocachers or geocaching, but regulating geocachers or geocaching is (theoretically) the only way to prevent the publication of these locations. It seems to me that no matter what is done by geocachers, no matter how 'good' our sport is, the basic fact remains that locations of places they want kept secret are being published. Unless the proponents of this bill can find a different way to prevent that they'll keep going down the path they're on now, which is attacking geocaching.

That being said, this new version of the bill finally crosses that thin line of consitutionality they've been skating up against. Let's see if they can figure out how.

1.7k · May 19, 2005

Well written letter, I especially like the way the cemetary issue was addressed and the "lost" local history, like Dr. Mays.

9.4k · May 19, 2005

The AP article was interesting in that it shed light on the motivation behind this bill. The problem isn't really geocachers or geocaching, it's simply that the locations of previously 'secret' burial grounds are being published on an easily accessible public website. Reminds me of a little skirmish between geocaching and cavers a few years back when cavers were upset that the locations of previously 'secret' caves were being published on an easily accessible public website. They, too, accused geocachers of urinating in caves (never knew talking about p was so effective in getting people p.o.'ed about something).

Boy, they're sure going to hate the new features for virtuals and locationless caches then.

7.2k · May 19, 2005

That was one of the arguments Cieps had when we spoke. "Do you not realize that 100's of thousands of people can see that geocache?" Well, yeah. But, she went on to say, "Do you want 100's of thousands of people visiting that geocache?" Uh, wouldn't happen.

Some have suggested, and there is merit, that this came about because of this "online list" and being open to real grave robbers. Problem is, Headllhama, the owner of the "offensive caches" is a transplant and found every single cemetery in the Beaufort area by perusing publicly accessible records already available. Huh! How about that?! Seems like the cat is already out of the bag.

Oddly, the bill in present form does nothing to protect the location of these sites.

Who wants to take bets the H3777 camp will want to amend the bill yet again when they realize their mistake?

3.8k · May 19, 2005

Who wants to take bets the H3777 camp will want to amend the bill yet again when they realize their mistake?

No doubt. But I still think the bill will die in the senate (there must be some realistic people in the state house).

2.6k · May 19, 2005

I can already see the headlines:

President George W. Bush cut short his vacation at his Texas ranch in order to fly back to Washington so that he could immediately sign the bill into law.

3.8k · May 19, 2005

I believe I qualified my above statement about realistic people:

...in the state house

:laughing:

20.7k · May 19, 2005

I can already see the headlines:

President George W. Bush cut short his vacation at his Texas ranch in order to fly back to Washington so that he could immediately sign the bill into law.

If only W was the governor of SC. That would be so sweet.

9.4k · May 19, 2005

I can already see the headlines:

President George W. Bush cut short his vacation at his Texas ranch in order to fly back to Washington so that he could immediately sign the bill into law.

Not really. In that case it had to do with politicians stepping in to try and protect the rights of a mentally deficient citizen. In thiis case a mentally deficient politician is trying to protect the rights of a citizen.

3.8k · May 19, 2005

...In this case a mentally deficient politician is trying to protect the rights of a citizen.

You tickle me!

1.5k · May 19, 2005

...In this case a mentally deficient politician is trying to protect the rights of a citizen.

You tickle me!

Hey now what you 2 do on your own time is your own business. I think the loopholes will be fixed since everyone did a great job to say A- we'll beat the bill through the loopholes and then B- hey here are the loopholes....

May 19, 2005

Hello,

Reply below fyi.

Dear David:

Thank you for your e-mail regarding geocaching. I agree with you

regading H.3777. I do not believe geocaching should be banned in places

that are otherwise open to the general public. Why are geochachers

being treated differently than hikers, historians or other members of

the public? I appreciate your input on this matter.

Jim McGee

Dist. 63

>>> David Wach <dwach@sc.rr.com> 5/1/2005 9:37:33 PM >>>

Representative McGee,

Geocaching has been a wonderful vehicle for me to discover the hidden

natural treasures in our county. My appreciation and desire to protect

the

natural beauty has been promoted by geocaching. Do you realize that a

fundamental aspect is to preserve the location of caches for everyones

enjoyment. An example is CITO (cache in, trash out). I encourage you

to

learn more about geocaching. Please support geocaching in SC.

May 20, 2005

Excellent article in the Low Country Weekly. This is the kind of rational, professional approach that will help South Carolinian cachers succeed in their fight.

Good luck!

24.7k · May 20, 2005

Hello,
Reply below fyi.

Dear David:

Thank you for your e-mail regarding geocaching. I agree with you

regading H.3777. I do not believe geocaching should be banned in places

that are otherwise open to the general public. Why are geochachers

being treated differently than hikers, historians or other members of

the public? I appreciate your input on this matter.

Jim McGee

Dist. 63

>>> David Wach <dwach@sc.rr.com> 5/1/2005 9:37:33 PM >>>

Representative McGee,

Geocaching has been a wonderful vehicle for me to discover the hidden

natural treasures in our county. My appreciation and desire to protect

the

natural beauty has been promoted by geocaching. Do you realize that a

fundamental aspect is to preserve the location of caches for everyones

enjoyment. An example is CITO (cache in, trash out). I encourage you

to

learn more about geocaching. Please support geocaching in SC.

Excellent reply and a realistic outlook.

May 20, 2005

would virtuals not be a loophole in the H3777 bill? it denotes that a geocache is looking for a container or a hidden object...what if the object is a tomb stone? would that be hidden? so why not remove the cache and make it a virt? than we wouldnt be looking for anything except something that is already there. I bet if i started a locationless that said to find a gravesite that was damaged by geocachers in SC that i would have a pretty low number of finds on that one huh?

Edited May 20, 2005 by Team Silver

3.8k · May 20, 2005

I wonder how the students and teachers at Lakeville Middle School’s GPS Club feel about impending SC legislation? Perhaps a letter or two could be directed that direction. Teachers generally have sound minds and are not afraid to confront politicians.

…The GPS Club members spoke to the guests about their experiences with the GPS technology. Students talked about going on orienteering hikes, helping "injured" hikers by using waypoints and track-back features, and finding hidden caches of treasure by latitude and longitude coordinates, as well as other GPS activities...They also develop updated maps of the Greenville area.

:antenna: :santa:

1.5k · May 20, 2005

Wow not 1, 2, but 3 University Professors teaching middle school kids a new, fun, and educational activity that would not only stimulate their minds but also get them active and outdoors...Wow...making that illegal....what a shame

2.1k · May 20, 2005

would virtuals not be a loophole in the H3777 bill? it denotes that a geocache is looking for a container or a hidden object...what if the object is a tomb stone? would that be hidden? so why not remove the cache and make it a virt? than we wouldnt be looking for anything except something that is already there. I bet if i started a locationless that said to find a gravesite that was damaged by geocachers in SC that i would have a pretty low number of finds on that one huh?

The current text of the bill states that you can not look for a geocache or information related to a geocache. They've roped virtuals and offsets in that way (actually altering the wording from its original stance that you could not look for a specific location with a GPS...which would have been fun to try and enforce).

In the meantime, here's Google's quote of the day:

The people I distrust most are those who want to improve our lives but have only one course of action.

- Frank Herbert

May 20, 2005

The current text of the bill states that you can not look for a geocache or information related to a geocache. They've roped virtuals and offsets in that way (actually altering the wording from its original stance that you could not look for a specific location with a GPS...which would have been fun to try and enforce).

I think the way it is worked, a virtual is ok. They define a geocache as a physical cache. So if there is no physical cache, then you are not really geocaching according to the law. A virtual leg is still outlawed, but a virtual cache is ok.

I like the idea of outlawing the use of a GPS in historical locations. Pretty silly, no?

Personally I think there should be an automatic repeal of any law that is not enforced for say, 5 years. Then silly laws like using a spitoon in front of women on Sundays would drop off the books if they don't reinstate it... and pretty much any ban on geocaching that is just a momentary, kneejerk reaction to one incident.

May 20, 2005

The Columbia Star came out today with a huge front page photo and article that was obviously taken word for word from Rep Ceips' slanderous position. The headline reads 'High Tech Game Players Invade Hallowed Ground,' and begins the story by detailing how a downtown Columbia church now has to lock its cemetary because of geocachers. It also includes at least one photo not taken in SC. The online version of the Star hasn't been updated yet but I expect that will be done soon.

- T

May 20, 2005

The Columbia Star came out today with a huge front page photo and article that was obviously taken word for word from Rep Ceips' slanderous position. The headline reads 'High Tech Game Players Invade Hallowed Ground,' and begins the story by detailing how a downtown Columbia church now has to lock its cemetary because of geocachers. It also includes at least one photo not taken in SC. The online version of the Star hasn't been updated yet but I expect that will be done soon.

- T

The story is up there now. Here's the website:

http://www.thecolumbiastar.com/news/2005/0...t_Page/001.html

9.4k · May 20, 2005

What is "kick the bucket?"

May 20, 2005

District 44 has some representation for this bill in the Senate...i would encourage the SC geocachers to hit up their Senators. I got this reply from Senator Mescher today...

GENERAL COMM. MAILBOX SENATE

to me

More options 10:30 am (4 hours ago)

Thanks for your comments. I'm opposed to H.3777. My brother is much

into the Geocache hobby. I've been out with him a couple of times and

enjoyed the hunt. Sincerely, Sen. Mescher

>>> Dennis Demski <dennis.demski@gmail.com> 05/20/05 12:30:35 AM >>>

- Show quoted text -

24.7k · May 20, 2005

...The story is up there now. Here's the website:

http://www.thecolumbiastar.com/news/2005/0...t_Page/001.html

I sent an email to the general manager. I pointed out that one or more of his staff would likely become hooked on geocaching and that I'd make the introduction to some locals who could show them what geocaching is first hand, if the locals didn't beat me to the punch and offer directly.

A few other bases were covered as well. I kept it short. That's hard to do sometimes.

24.7k · May 20, 2005

What is "kick the bucket?"

Slander or Libel. I lose track of which is which. Either way it has nothing to do with geocaching so it must of been said entirely to paint a negative picture of geocaching since the unadorned truth is pretty boring until you go on a hunt.

May 20, 2005

Slander is word of mouth.

Libel is print.

9.4k · May 20, 2005

I thought "kick the bucket" was slang for pass away. I didn't know there was a game called that. At the least it is an innacuracy and at worst it is yellow journalism. But it is ironic that an article talking about the solemn nature of graveyards would have "kick the bucket" in it.

It does talk about some of the positives but towards the end of the article. At that point the creative snarkiness was all used up.

May 20, 2005

"Kick the Bucket" was a series of caches in cemetaries. First were limited to the Columbia / Lexington area then spread to other locations including at lest one in North Carolina.

3.8k · May 20, 2005

At this point, I'd really like to kick someone's bucket! :)

May 20, 2005

This is our chance, as ambassadors to geocaching, to explain and report the facts correctly. Write letters and make phone calls.

38.2k · May 20, 2005

The Columbia Star came out today with a huge front page photo and article that was obviously taken word for word from Rep Ceips' slanderous position. The headline reads 'High Tech Game Players Invade Hallowed Ground,' and begins the story by detailing how a downtown Columbia church now has to lock its cemetary because of geocachers. It also includes at least one photo not taken in SC. The online version of the Star hasn't been updated yet but I expect that will be done soon.

- T

The story is up there now. Here's the website:

http://www.thecolumbiastar.com/news/2005/0...t_Page/001.html

Is this a news arcticle or an editorial? If its supposed to be a news story, I've rarely seen one so slanted. There was absolutely no attempt at balance. And for a "reporter" to urge readers to contact senators to support a piece of legislation in news story is an unconscionable breach of journalistic ethic.

Edited May 21, 2005 by briansnat

May 20, 2005

Is this a new arcticle or an editorial? If its supposed to be a new story, I've rarely seen one so slanted. There was absolutely no attempt at balance. And for a "reporter" to urge readers to contact senators to support a piece of legislation in news story is an unconscionable breach of journalistic ethic.

Rachel Haynie is the "Society Editor". So I suppose she is not a "reporter". Maybe that means she doesn't have to actually investigate or research what she writes about?

I have an e-mail addy that may or may not be current for Ms. Haynie.... Anyone want it? (I'll just tell you how to get it)

EDIT: Wonder if any of their advertisers are affiliated with geocaching and would be interested in the inaccuracies presented.

Edited May 20, 2005 by Paulcet

9.2k · May 20, 2005

I took special note of the quote from the recent "Governing" magazine article, which this slanted story describes as something that landed on Ceips' desk, much like an interagency all points bulletin for law enforcement. In fact, the "Governing" article was a very positive portrayal of geocaching and how so many of us work so effectively with land managers to achieve a well-balanced regulatory structure.

A more interesting article would ask: "why is it that South Carolina is the only jurisdiction in the world to consider making geocaching a criminal act, where other states and political subdivision actively participate in and encourage it?"

If you missed the positive discussion about the Governing article, read this thread. The first post links to the text of the article. The reason why I took "special note" is explained in Keystone Approver's posts to that thread. Keystone was an interview subject for that article's fair and balanced author.

2.1k · May 20, 2005

It's very clear that this was a press release from the Ceips office that was translated nearly word-for-word into a "news story". That reporter evidently has no journalistic integrity. It's disappointing that an editor would let them get away with something like that. It gives itself away in the final lines of "looking for organizations interested in loving our history" to contact state senators.

It's clear that SCGA is going to need more and more testimonials from the same organizations that use geocaching to invite guests in and encourage the activity in their "hallowed areas". Without it, this is going to be an even bigger one-sided fight than the House vote.

May 20, 2005

It's very clear that this was a press release from the Ceips office that was translated nearly word-for-word into a "news story".

The propaganda machine on their side is up and running.

Apparently "editors" don't need integrity in what they write.

May 20, 2005

Just one question/comment --

I grew up in the Columbia area and have never heard of the "Columbia Star" before today. "The State" is the main newspaper in the area. I'm guessing this paper is some smaller outfit that may not be as widely read, as well-known, etc. (Not that this means we shouldn't respond to it, just saying that I believe this isn't a "big league" paper like "The State", "The Greenville News", "Charleston Post & Courier", etc.)

Can anybody confirm this?

May 20, 2005

They are a smaller Columbia based newspaper. They're reporting focuses on the Columbia area.

The Columbia Star

P.O. Box 5955

Columbia, SC 29250

Contact The Columbia Star

May 20, 2005

I'm guessing this paper is some smaller outfit that may not be as widely read, as well-known, etc.

Yes, it's a small, freely distrubited newspaper around Columbia.

2k · May 20, 2005

The AP article was interesting in that it shed light on the motivation behind this bill. The problem isn't really geocachers or geocaching, it's simply that the locations of previously 'secret' burial grounds are being published on an easily accessible public website. Reminds me of a little skirmish between geocaching and cavers a few years back when cavers were upset that the locations of previously 'secret' caves were being published on an easily accessible public website. They, too, accused geocachers of urinating in caves (never knew talking about p was so effective in getting people p.o.'ed about something).

Boy, they're sure going to hate the new features for virtuals and locationless caches then.

May 20, 2005

One of The Star's main purposes in Columbia is to serve as a publisher of legal notices for the city's legal community. It is definitely a targeted media to the attorneys, many of whom are legislators. If The Star is willing to present the other true side of this issue to balance the article that would be a very professional act. However, if this article stands untempered, calling the paper's advertisers and informing them that they will be boycotted by law-abiding consumers who make up the geocaching community will get attention. Twenty phone calls to each of the paper's advertisers will not bode well to the bottom line. But this should be withheld until the paper has an opportunity to set things straight.

Also, what message does such an article send to technology businesses considering locating in South Carolina when users of technology are vilified and ridiculed as 'geeks' in a newspaper published in the state capital? Does this portray a job market rich with technically capable staff?

- T

Edited May 20, 2005 by tands