What Do People Use For Waypoint Tags

[+Digital Exposure]

I personally like the copper plant tags from Lee Valley Tools http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page.aspx?...t=2,43319,33281

[Tahosa and Sons]

A flat rock, with information painted on the bottom. A hollow stick, etc. etc.

[+cache_test_dummies]

You mean waypoint markers for multi step caches?

 

In my own (and only) multi, I made use of information found on objects which were there before I arrived, so I didn't have to add anything to the landscape. This multi is in a wooded park, and it worked just fine. I am a fan of minimalistic impact, I guess, so I like it when others do the same thing. But I have seen a number of non-permanent, non-damaging techniques used: surveyor's tape, small sections of PCV pipe hung from tree branches, that sort of thing.

 

It irritates me a bit to find waypoint coordinates written in permanent marker on man-made or natural objects which were there before the cache. I consider this to be a minor form of vandalism.

[+AtoZ]

Let me see washers, film canister, aluminium tag(I made), pencil lead containers, basically anything I can get my hands on. I have as of yet used presisting objects like statues etc... thought some day I guess I should. Just to many other ideas. The thing I use most is my imignation. But your tags look cool thought I am to cheap to buy them

 

cheers

[+sbell111]

I personally like the copper plant tags from Lee Valley Tools http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page.aspx?...t=2,43319,33281

I almost purchased those very tags a while back. I went with blank ID tags instead.

[+Strapped-4-Cache]

I personally like the copper plant tags from Lee Valley Tools http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page.aspx?...t=2,43319,33281

Hmmm. Those look mighty familiar. I might have used them myself.

S-4-C

[+WARedBear]

Depends on how much information you need to give for that leg of the multi. I have a cache where each leg gives you two letters and two numbers. I used metal stamps to put the information on a washer, I stamped them on a metal fence post, I stamped them on a metal tag then nailed the tag to a circular piece of wood and then stuffed the plug into a hole, I wrote the info on a piece of thin cedar and then tied it up in a tree and then I posted just the letters above their head using corresponding numbers that were already in place. I know this might be vague but the cache is new and I don't want to spoil it for others. E-mail me and I can give you more detailed instructions on some of these. I have others where I used numbers off of a road sign to make the coordinates. I had a 300 mile multi between two cities that had binary numbers on key chain markers stuffed inside mini M&M containers. Look around and use your imagination.....the sky is the limit on what you can create.

[Keystone]

You mean waypoint markers for multi step caches?

 

In my own (and only) multi, I made use of information found on objects which were there before I arrived, so I didn't have to add anything to the landscape. This multi is in a wooded park, and it worked just fine. I am a fan of minimalistic impact, I guess, so I like it when others do the same thing. But I have seen a number of non-permanent, non-damaging techniques used: surveyor's tape, small sections of PCV pipe hung from tree branches, that sort of thing.

 

It irritates me a bit to find waypoint coordinates written in permanent marker on man-made or natural objects which were there before the cache. I consider this to be a minor form of vandalism.

I would like to thank Cache Test Dummies for bringing up this point. Due to a very distressing incident in my review territory this week, this issue is much on my mind. A geocacher spray-painted arrows and other symbols, as well as text messages, on a number of trees in a City Forest in order to establish a trail for his "multicache." (Make that "archived multicache.")

 

From the Geocache Listing Requirements/Guidelines, in a section recently strengthened:

 

Caches may be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not inclusive):

{snip}

Caches that deface public or private property, whether a natural or man-made object, in order to provide a clue or a logging method.

 

I very much encourage the use of existing objects, or the use of tags as is being discussed in this thread. The tags should be affixed in a manner such that their removal will leave little or no evidence that they were ever there.

[+Mr. Snazz]

I use some thin metal plates with holes punched in the corners. They're about the size of an index card, and are a biproduct of manufacturing errors at the company I work for. Permanent marker (well, sharpie, anyway) lasts about two years out in the elements of central oregon, which include wind, light rain, and snow. The plates are easily attached to trees using fishing line. Amazingly, even knowing where they are, I have trouble spotting them sometimes.

[+C&C+COMPANY]

Pressure treated wood, with the waypoint engraved into it

[+CYBret]

I once had a "Dog Tag" made from the machine they have at the front of our local Wal-mart.

 

Bret

[+briansnat]

I personally like the copper plant tags from Lee Valley Tools http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page.aspx?...t=2,43319,33281

I generally use small Lock n Locks, or Rubbermaid containers, or Bison cylinders. These actually look very good and I think I'll order some.

[+medic208]

I have used engravable pet tags for some of my caches. They can be found at Walmart, Pet Smart, etc.

[CoyoteRed]

Being an engraver I can make my own tags in just about whatever material I need.

 

I've seen folks use one of those new label maker/printer doohickey's to print out information on clear tape. It works pretty good.

 

I have used Sharpie® on a aluminum signs, but only on the bare metal. It can be taken of quickly with rubbing alcohol.

 

I've seen laminated paper tags with camo tape on one side. Hard to find!

[+leatherman]

I bought 1" by 12" strip of copper. I cut it into dog tag shapes. I use number stamps to add the coordinates. I can slip the tags into crevices or nail them to stumps. Brass nails means no rust.

[+cache_test_dummies]

I have used Sharpie® on a aluminum signs, but only on the bare metal. It can be taken of quickly with rubbing alcohol.

Not to pick on you specifically CR, but this is what I was talking about in my previous post. Despite the fact that the particular type of writing you mention can be removed using a chemical agent, I still consider this to be a highly undesirable method for marking waypoints.

 

I can't imagine that a land manager who found such markings on a sign or a building or a fence post would think this was anything other than vandalism. And I can see how easy it would be for somebody placing their first cache to copy the 'marker-on-the-back-of-a-sign' type of waypoint technique they had seen elsewhere using, perhaps, a more permanent type of writing implement.

 

I do like some of the creative waypoint marker ideas I've seen in this thread but never encountered in the field such as the copper tags and the dog tags. Easy to attach, easy to remove, leaves no permanent mark. I especially like the idea of the laminated paper tags with camo tape which CR mentioned. Might try that one myself.

[+mtn-man]

I have used Sharpie® on a aluminum signs, but only on the bare metal.  It can be taken of quickly with rubbing alcohol.

Not to pick on you specifically CR, but this is what I was talking about in my previous post. Despite the fact that the particular type of writing you mention can be removed using a chemical agent, I still consider this to be a highly undesirable method for marking waypoints.

 

I can't imagine that a land manager who found such markings on a sign or a building or a fence post would think this was anything other than vandalism. And I can see how easy it would be for somebody placing their first cache to copy the 'marker-on-the-back-of-a-sign' type of waypoint technique they had seen elsewhere using, perhaps, a more permanent type of writing implement.

 

I do like some of the creative waypoint marker ideas I've seen in this thread but never encountered in the field such as the copper tags and the dog tags. Easy to attach, easy to remove, leaves no permanent mark. I especially like the idea of the laminated paper tags with camo tape which CR mentioned. Might try that one myself.

And, of course as Keystone has noted just above, this is now against the guidelines and should not be done or encouraged.

 

I like the luggage tags you can make at Kinko's. You can print a sheet of paper, cut it out and laminate it there and they provide a plastic loose attachment piece as well. I laminated business cards for my luggage and the idea hit me. I have used that several times and loop the little strap around a tree limb. I have also done the dog tag thing at pet stores.

[gridlox]

 

With Spring fast approaching we are planning a "mini-Flood" of caches (7 potentials - so far) to be released all at once on a "good weather forcasted" weekend around this area to get everyone kicked up and running for the return of warmer weather.

 

We were lacking a multi and this really gets the juices flowing!!

 

Thanks for the ideas!

 

D-man

[+TetrAmigos]

A geocacher spray-painted arrows and other symbols, as well as text messages, on a number of trees in a City Forest in order to establish a trail for his "multicache."  (Make that "archived multicache.")

I can't beleive someone would actually do that! Unbelievable.

[+Mule Ears]

I've used that self-adhesive aluminum tape in a Dymo embosser. The tape is sold for patching gutters and downspouts. It comes in 2"-wide rolls; with care you can cut 3/8" strips that fit the label maker. The result is durable and surprisingly stealthy, as it looks like some sort of serial-number tag.

Edited March 18, 2005 by Mule Ears

[adampierson]

A geocacher spray-painted arrows and other symbols, as well as text messages, on a number of trees in a City Forest in order to establish a trail for his "multicache."  (Make that "archived multicache.")

I can't beleive someone would actually do that! Unbelievable.

Well, I've seen stuff like that going on once and a while.

 

1) Written under a child's park ride in permanent ink maker

2) Written on a concret wall - you had to really had to look for it amoung the sea of grafetti was ALREADY on the wall.

[CoyoteRed]

And, of course as Keystone has noted just above, this is now against the guidelines and should not be done or encouraged.

That's about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard equating sharpie on aluminum to spray paint on wood.

 

Sharpie can be trivially removed from the uncoated aluminum highway signs are made out of and leave absolutely no trace. None.

 

Is stickers still allowed? Better ban them, too, because many leave a residue that is hell to remove. Even so-called low tack and "easy to remove" decal material, when left to weather in the sun, is near impossible to remove. So, what's worse, decals or Sharpie which if left to it's own devices will fade from existence in 2 or 3 years?

 

Dumb.

 

And insulting to boot.

 

Let's consider an SBA I logged a few weeks ago. No, no painted arrows. Nope, nothing more that a drilled hole in an active power pole and the pole's ID tag "modified" to conceal it. Sent in photos to document it, too. But, I guess permanent destruction is okay, but removable graffiti is the bane of the hobby.

 

Sounds like some people need to get a grip.

[+IV_Warrior]

A geocacher spray-painted arrows and other symbols, as well as text messages, on a number of trees in a City Forest in order to establish a trail for his "multicache."  (Make that "archived multicache.")

I can't beleive someone would actually do that! Unbelievable.

After recently seeing pictures where someone who FOUND a cache spray-painted a large arrow pointing toward the cache, and part of the HIDER's handle on trees in a park, using BRIGHT ORANGE spraypaint, yeah I can believe someone would spraypaint trail markers to hide a cache.....

[+briansnat]

A geocacher spray-painted arrows and other symbols, as well as text messages, on a number of trees in a City Forest in order to establish a trail for his "multicache."  (Make that "archived multicache.")

I can't beleive someone would actually do that! Unbelievable.

Well, I've seen stuff like that going on once and a while.

 

1) Written under a child's park ride in permanent ink maker

2) Written on a concret wall - you had to really had to look for it amoung the sea of grafetti was ALREADY on the wall.

It's silly to compare coordinates written in a Sharpie, carefully hidden from view, with spray painting trees in a park. I agree that writing coordinates on anything is not the best idea and can give people the wrong impression, but is is really destructive if it can't be seen ("Look here officer....No under there...Here take this flashlight. See it? Look real carefully, it says N43.03....).

[+briansnat]

BTW, while we're on this subject is this the best photo to have rotating through GC.COM's front page?

 

Edited March 19, 2005 by briansnat

[+cache_test_dummies]

It's silly to compare coordinates written in a Sharpie, carefully hidden from view, with spray painting trees in a park. I agree that writing coordinates on anything is not the best idea and can give people the wrong impression, but is is really destructive if it can't be seen ("Look here officer....No under there...Here take this flashlight. See it? Look real carefully, it says N43.03....).

I'll agree that a spray-painted tree is not in the same league as Sharpie notes in a sewer pipe. But I do think they are both inappropriate methods for marking waypoints.

 

Not to get all "Ed Begley Jr" here, but I think all this waypoint marking stuff is pretty simple:

 

When it comes to marking waypoints, my belief is that if you leave something or mark something in some way which is non-destructive, and which could immediately be completely and permanently removed by an average geocacher, hiker, pedestrian, or land manager without requiring special tools or chemicals, it's ok. Anything else I think could be considered to be vandalism.

 

Personally I don't think it has anything to do with 'how visible' it is, or whether it could be scrubbed clean with Orange Cleanser, or if time will wipe all traces of it. If it can't be immediately carried away or wiped off using something I carry with me every day, I don't like to see it used as a waypoint.

 

Do I stop hunting for a cache when I encounter one of these situations? No. And I don't make a big deal out of it in my logs. I'm not on a crusade or anything. And I know there are plenty of 'shades of grey' cases: Is it destructive to drill a hole in a dead stump? How about if I chain and packlock a box to a tree trunk? What if I built a set of coordinates out of snow?. Is it ok to screw an eye-hook into the bottom of a wooden guardrail so I can hang a bison tube from it? Me - I just don't like to see anything which couldn't be immediately picked up and carried away without leaving a mark.

 

I'm discussing this because I'd hate for anybody to read this thread and get the impression that everyone is ok with leaving behind any 'harmless' Sharpie waypoint graffiti.

 

There, I feel better now.

[+cache_test_dummies]

BTW, while we're on this subject is this the best photo to have rotating through GC.COM's front page?

 

Absolutely not. Can you believe the hat that guy is wearing???

[CoyoteRed]

If it can't be immediately carried away or wiped off using something I carry with me every day, I don't like to see it used as a waypoint.

I don't see how you can say this when I know of plenty of caches that wouldn't met that standard and were placed by land owner/steward permission.

 

Your argument doesn't make sense. Why would you hold a waypoint to a higher standard than the cache itself?

[+cache_test_dummies]

I don't see how you can say this when I know of plenty of caches that wouldn't met that standard and were placed by land owner/steward permission.

I'm trying to understand your reponse. You don't know how I can say this (speak of my personal feelings about what makes an appropriate waypoint) when you know of caches that don't fit with what I think is ok for leaving waypoints? Talk about not making sense.

 

These are MY feelings I was speaking of, and I was talking about waypoints, which are the subject of this topic.

 

Your argument doesn't make sense. Why would you hold a waypoint to a higher standard than the cache itself?

I do not. I don't remember saying that, or implying that. I just went back and read my post several times. I must be missing the part where I said that I was holding waypoints to a higher standard than caches. Can you please point out to me where I said that?

 

Look, if a land owner wants to allow somebody to write notes on the back of a sign on their property, or is ok with a cache being placed which leaves behind some permanent change to an object which they own, that's their business.

 

I was just talking about what I personally consider to be reasonable and responsible ways of marking waypoints. If these beliefs are different than your own, that's fine. You know of caches which don't completely fit with my personal view of what is a responsible placement? That's ok too.

[CoyoteRed]

Look, if a land owner wants to allow somebody to write notes on the back of a sign on their property, or is ok with a cache being placed which leaves behind some permanent change to an object which they own, that's their business.

Exactly. Don't go trying to make policy, or argue for policy, that goes counter to that.

 

There are plenty of caches that are permanent or semi permanent fixtures. You might have to use a screwdriver to remove. Maybe you'd have to use Goo-gone to remove the adhesive residue. That's the same with intermediate steps.

 

Does everyone carry wire snips or a knife on them? How would you remove a tag from a tree limb put on with cable ties and how does that pass your test of removing a waypoint? Besides, it's the cache placer's responsibility to remove all trace of the cache and that is something I can do.

[+cache_test_dummies]

Look, if a land owner wants to allow somebody to write notes on the back of a sign on their property, or is ok with a cache being placed which leaves behind some permanent change to an object which they own, that's their business.

Exactly. Don't go trying to make policy, or argue for policy, that goes counter to that.

I don't believe I did.

 

Does everyone carry wire snips or a knife on them? How would you remove a tag from a tree limb put on with cable ties and how does that pass your test of removing a waypoint?

As I said in my post above, people use waypoint marking techniques which can fall into kind of 'grey areas' that my simple test doesn't handle cleanly. I listed some, you've listed some more. So what? All I am saying is that these are not waypointing (or cache placement techniques, for that matter), which I like to see, or which I personally would ever use when placing my own waypoints or caches.

 

Besides, it's the cache placer's responsibility to remove all trace of the cache and that is something I can do.

This is true. Responsible cache owners such as you would most certainly clean up any traces of a cache if it needed to be pulled out of service, even if they had to bring a screwdriver, a bolt cutter and a bottle of Tabasco Sauce out into the woods to do so. So would I. So would most of the people I cache with.

 

But what I worry about is the a new cacher who comes across a set of coordinates written with a Sharpie on the back of a sign in a park, and thinks that this is an appropriate and acceptable method for marking a waypoint. Except when he places his first cache, he uses a permanent magic marker, and writes on the back of a wooden bench instead of an aluminum sign. Removal of this waypoint would require sandpaper and elbow grease. And if a land manager finds such a mark, what would the reaction be? No more caches for these graffiti artists in MY park, no siree.

 

I just think it is a good idea to use use waypointing (and cache placement) techniques which appear to be, and are, trivial to remove. This helps put forth a much less threatening image of the hobby to land managers, and it sets a good example for future cache placers. I also think that in many instances, there are completely workable alternatives to a Sharpie note or a screw hole in a tree.

[CoyoteRed]

I also think that in many instances, there are completely workable alternatives to a Sharpie note...

There's nothing wrong with Sharpie on the back of a street. I don't even care if TPTB won't approve a cache if they fine out about it.

 

This is yet another instance of folks getting their panties in a wad over a trivial issue.

 

Personally, I'd be more concerned with permanent destruction of public property, myself.

[+cache_test_dummies]

This is yet another instance of folks getting their panties in a wad over a trivial issue.

I see. So if there is an issue relating to techniques or methods for placing caches which YOU personally don't care for (say, for example, the introduction of guardrail or lamposts micros placed in your caching area by an outsider) it's a major issue worthy of numerous posts and lengthy discussion. But if it's an issue relating to techniques or methods for placing caches which I personally don't care for, it's "another instance of folks getting their panties in a wad over a trivial issue"?

 

So sorry my personal issues aren't as important as yours.

 

There's nothing wrong with Sharpie on the back of a street.  I don't even care if TPTB won't approve a cache if they fine out about it.

And as I've said, I do think there is something wrong with Sharpie on the back of a street (sign). And I see nothing wrong with the guidelines being put forth by TPTB in this regard, nor do I see adherence as causing any undue hardship to those trying to place waypoints or caches.

[CoyoteRed]

So sorry my personal issues aren't as important as yours.

Well, if you put it that way.

 

Some issues are more important.

 

Yours is about markings that you can't remove with whatever you happen to have your person at any one moment--which would include some tags that are being advocated here. You even don't care for markings that can be trivially removed by someone prepared to remove it and it would not leave any trace it had ever been there.

 

My issue is an outsider--against friendly advise--cramming ultra low quality caches down a community's throat while barely skirting vacation cache guidelines and displaying destruction of public property.

 

Hmm, you're right. I don't see the difference.

[+leatherman]

 

What is with this ridiculous "I said you said" pissing match?!

 

Sharpies and spray paint are not even on TOPIC! The OP asked about TAGS.

[+QDman]

Sharpies and spray paint are not even on TOPIC! The OP asked about TAGS.

Well, "tagging" is another term for graffitti, right?

 

If you have the landowner's permission, obviously you can do whatever you want. But I agree that writing on a surface is a bad precedent to set. It's a slippery slope that we probably shouldn't start down.

 

If 1" letters are OK, how about 2", or 10"? If the back of a sign is OK, how about the front? And for someone to say (not you, leatherman) "I don't even care if TPTB won't approve a cache if they fine out about it" is a little disturbing to me.

[CoyoteRed]

And for someone to say (not you, leatherman) "I don't even care if TPTB won't approve a cache if they fine out about it" is a little disturbing to me.

Be disturbed.

 

But remember gc.com is a listing site, not a controlling body. They can refuse to list a cache placement, but that doesn't mean it is not a viable placement.

[+QDman]

And for someone to say (not you, leatherman) "I don't even care if TPTB won't approve a cache if they fine out about it" is a little disturbing to me.

Be disturbed.

 

But remember gc.com is a listing site, not a controlling body. They can refuse to list a cache placement, but that doesn't mean it is not a viable placement.

And the rules of the listing site don't apply to you?

[+Logscaler and Red]

If you have a problem with sharpie tracks, pack some dry-erase markers with you and a rag. Rub over the sharpie with the dry erase, wipe it off and it will remove it. But you had better dadgum well replace those numbers with something for the next cachers, and the next and the next, etc etc. But it seems to me there is no problem unless someone makes it ito a problem by calling attention to it. And am I to assume your the one person on this planet that follows all the traffic laws as well?

 

I see no problem with leaving waypoints written on the backside of street signs or label maker tags or stickers as long as everything is discrete and low visability.

 

But lets get back on topic and away from the high marking;

 

I use copper pipe I have salvaged.

I cut it to lengths, split it and flatten it.

I pack a flock of them with me as well as a bearing block from a train truck, a 4 lb hammer, some concrete nails, a cordless drill with bits and drywall screws.

 

Whenever I need one, I stamp whatever information I need on them, drill whatever holes I need and either use the concrete nails to affix them to rocks or the drywall screws to mount the tags on softer items.

 

I also use the same stuff for tog tags for my bowwows.

 

Getting them to hold still while I use the drywall screws to stick the tags to their ears is interesting but that is another thread.

 

Just my nickels worth. Meet me on the trails for your change.

 

Logscaler.

[+cache_test_dummies]

Sharpies and spray paint are not even on TOPIC! The OP asked about TAGS.

I believe that this discussion IS on topic. We are talking about what people use to mark waypoints, which seems to me to be pretty closely related to the placement of waypoint tags.

 

If the OP or the moderators consider this to be off topic, please let me know, and I'll discontinue my participation in this particular discussion.

[+TeamK-9]

Sharpies and spray paint are not even on TOPIC! The OP asked about TAGS.

I believe that this discussion IS on topic. We are talking about what people use to mark waypoints, which seems to me to be pretty closely related to the placement of waypoint tags.

 

If the OP or the moderators consider this to be off topic, please let me know, and I'll discontinue my participation in this particular discussion.

Honestly, I have to side with letherman. The discussion of wether or not to use sharpies to write on signs is off topic. The OP wanted to know what other people used for their intermediate stages of multis, I'm pretty sure they didn't want a huge discussion over why some ideas aren't good...

 

Personally. Most of the multis in my area use one type of container for all of the intermediate stages, and that's getting a little boring. I like caches that combine all of the different ideas.

 

Right now, my newest cache is going to have business card magnets, pvc pipe, and even some normal film canisters.

 

One multi that I did just yesterday was really fun. It was a cow magnet with coords written on it and stuck to a guard rail. I spent at least three hours looking for that thing, and I had to have had my hand on it multiple times, but I didn't find it till the owner drove, pulled it out and handed it to me.

 

Don't know what a cow magnet is? Google it. They're really pretty cool...

[+Logscaler and Red]

Team K-9:

 

I have also used those business card sized magnets for a stage or three.

 

I get the numbers and hints I need, print them out and paste them to the sticky side of the card. Then I use the business card size laminator pouches and seal everthing watertight. Run them thru several times - waiting for them to cool between trips - to make sure of a good seal.

 

And when you slap them onto a guardrail, handrail, bridge I-Beam, etc etc, they stay real good and are very hard to see or even feel. And real easy to change if need be.

 

Logscaler.

[+TeamK-9]

Team K-9:

 

I have also used those business card sized magnets for a stage or three.

 

I get the numbers and hints I need, print them out and paste them to the sticky side of the card.  Then I use the business card size laminator pouches and seal everthing watertight.  Run them thru several times - waiting for them to cool between trips - to make sure of a good seal.

 

And when you slap them onto a guardrail, handrail, bridge I-Beam, etc etc, they stay real good and are very hard to see or even feel.  And real easy to change if need be.

 

Logscaler.

I was thinking of just laminating the card and sticking it to the magnet. Is there any change in "performance" of the magnet after it's been laminated?

Edited March 20, 2005 by TeamK-9

[+Logscaler and Red]

Tem K9

 

Sorry, I have not been back to this thread in a while.

 

No change in the magnet that I can tell, even after running it through the hot process of the laminator.

 

Logscaler.

[+Deneye]

I was thinking of just laminating the card and sticking it to the magnet. Is there any change in "performance" of the magnet after it's been laminated?

A buddy of mine does his business cards this way. Laminates the paper first, and then sticks it to the magnets. Lasts for years.

 

Every now and again we'll leave one stuck to a napkin dispenser in a restaurant as free advertising. Works great too.