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Very Crazy Man With A Gun


cuff&stuff
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i went out to wallula gap and looked for sturgenator's 'back from iraq' cache he dedicated to his son. this is a rough haul over rugged territory. took me about two hours to hike the trip - little over a mile -. when i came back down to the truck i noticed a guy walking up the dusty road about 50 yards out heading my way, talking and cussing at the top of his lungs. he was ranting about how many ^&$#@ no trespassing signs does it take to keep you sonsa)*&^%%$s out of here. there was a sign about 100 feet up the road, and i did not pass it. i noticed he had a very large revolver strapped to his leg, tie down and everything. he kept getting madder and madder, i put the bed of the pickup between us and tried to calm him down. didn't work. so i pulled my badge out hoping he wouldn't get antsy with the revolver, and he got even madder, saying he saw the government decal on my window and that just proved i was crooked (i have mixed feelings about that). so i thought i had better dig down into my rarely used army and fbi hostage negotiation training and try to get the hell out of there gracefully. about then he noticed the .45 i had under my vest peeking out for which i had a washington concealed permit. i thought we were going to have a gun fight right there. then, which was really spooky, he said - since you work for the government do you know who really killed JFK? Ok, now i get it, this guy is nuts, i mean really nuts. i told him no but as sook as i got back to base i would call him and tell him. he said ok have a nice day and tell whoever put that cache up there to get it out of here.

 

i got the hell out of there and still feel kind of a funny sensation in my back-i think he was watching me before i saw him.

 

anyway, anyone else had something like that happen? i have emailed sturgeonator and told him.

 

i have edited this from a previous version to hopefully clear up intent and jurisdictional questions.

Edited by cuff&stuff
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:rolleyes: no thanks. you would think with negotiating skills i could convince my wife that geocaching for a living could be a 'good thing'. not.

 

hey, one bad experience does not a lifetime make.

 

badge-us army mil police. also oregon police academy grad (retired), now working for the army in civilian status. hooah. 5 more years and they can have 35 years of my life.

Edited by cuff&stuff
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The guy was probably a resposible gun owner and packing legally too. Just having a bad hair day or something.

Open carry in WA state (where the cache is) is perfectly legal, as long as you are legally allowed to possess the weapon. You only need a special permit to carry concealed. If anything, it might be the OP here who broke the law. It sounds like he's EX military police, now private security in OR (forgive me if I misunderstood)? Normally WA would not honor an OR concealed carry permit, but I guess as ex LEO he would be allowed under HR218(allows current and former LEO to carry a gun in all 50 states). Still, if the OP is no longer an LEO, "flashing his badge" to imply he was may be illegal. Also, most states that have a concealed firearm law require it to stay concealed. Letting your concealed .45 "peek out" without having a lawful reason to use deadly force can get you charged with menacing or brandishing in many states. If the OP was indeed trespassing like the guy stated, he could have been the guy in trouble.

 

All in all, I'm glad everything turned out ok, perhaps that cache should be disabled until it can be verified that it is indeed public property? It looks like it might very well be private property according to the topo map, but I'm 3000 miles away, what do I know?

 

I guess there are at least 2 lessons to be learned here.

1) Never assume anything. Don't assume the cache is placed legally just because it listed. Never assume it's legal just because other people haven't had a problem. If you aren't sure, there is no harm and going home and emailing the hider to double-check. The cache will still be there tomorrow.

 

2) Many cachers carry personal protection; especially caching in the back country. Let's not get into the ethics of carrying a gun, pepper spray, a knife or whatever.

Many cachers also end up in other states while following that GPS arrow. If you are leaving your home state, make sure you know the laws where you are heading. You may be perfectly legal in your home state, but that gun, pepper spray or knife could land you in jail in a different state. Stay safe, and stay legal.

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i am a federal not private officer, and the weapon was not actually concealed, altho MOPAR is right, and i also have both oregon and washington concealed carry permits to forstall any weird jurisdictional problems.

 

you had to be there to feel the dynamics.

 

i am not going to hike those hills again.

 

sturegeonator says i should have gone in from the north or east, not the west as i did. even so, it was not posted where i went in. i guess i could say i should have scoped it out better. lesson learned.

Edited by cuff&stuff
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sturegeonator says i should have gone in from the north or east, not the west as i did. even so, it was not posted where i went in. i guess i could say i should have scoped it out better. lesson learned.

Did you come in from the Twin Sisters (or nearby)? When I did the cache on the Sisters, a guy to the east was hollering (many people have noted this in their logs). He lives in the house just east of the Sisters. I certainly wouldn't want to walk past him <_<

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I'm all for finding my own way to the cache, but this one sounds like a prime candidate for recommended parking; or at least which way NOT to go to avoid trespassing on this guy's land.

Firearms and mental state aside, if weird looking people with electronic devices and printouts kept parking on the side of the road and hiking off onto my land every few weeks, I'd probaby be getting a bit POed (and maybe a little paranoid) by now myself.

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this was not on his property, it was on an abandoned county road leading to his property. sturgeonator has said his property is well marked and i did not go on his property. this is getting ridiculous. his rights were not infringed. he has a problem especially with the government and the army depot in the area. he is convinced the army burned down the local spud plant putting him out of work and saw me as a representative of his misfortune. since you (mopar) are an old timer on this site, you have probably seen this before. let's just put an end to this and let it rest. i am sorry i ever brought it up. another lesson learned. never too old, eh?

 

oh, by the way, this guy also called the cache by name. he is fully aware of geocaching and what gear is used. he just has an axe to grind and i was dumb enough to enter from the way i did, still not on his property but in his view.

Edited by cuff&stuff
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this was not on his property, it was on an abandoned county road leading to his property. sturgeonator has said his property is well marked and i did not go on his property. this is getting ridiculous. his rights were not infringed. he has a problem especially with the government and the army depot in the area. he is convinced the army burned down the local spud plant putting him out of work and saw me as a representative of his misfortune. since you (mopar) are an old timer on this site, you have probably seen this before. let's just put an end to this and let it rest. i am sorry i ever brought it up. another lesson learned. never too old, eh?

 

oh, by the way, this guy also called the cache by name. he is fully aware of geocaching and what gear is used. he just has an axe to grind and i was dumb enough to enter from the way i did, still not on his property but in his view.

Don't get so defensive! Seriously, it's a game, try not to loose that. I'm not talking about anyone infringing on anyones rights, just that some of the 15 people to visit that cache might be crossing private land to get to the cache.

 

I wasn't pickin' on you at all in my last post.

I'm sure the road where you encountered him is public, but is all that land around it leading up to the cache you were just on? Your first post said you were just 100ft before a no trespassing sign, isnt it possible that his property (or even someone elses if not his?) extends past that sign to where you had just been? Usually the lack of a sign doesn't automatically make it public, and the fact that the owner doesn't have a sign where you happen to be standing doesn't make it ok to trespass. Maybe it is public land, maybe it isn't. It isn't marked as public lands on the topo maps. The nearest marked public land is 1-2 miles away, on the other side of the way I'm guessing you came in.

 

Forgetting the law for a minute, as far as geocacher's safety is concerned someone who THINKS you are trespassing is a problem. Doesn't matter if you are or not. Since it seems like you are not the only cacher who has had a run-in with this guy, and the cache owner himself told you to aproach it from the other side, he (the cache owner, not you) should probably tell people where the safe, proper place is to park to get to the cache. That's all I was saying in my last post.

 

You shouldn't be sorry you brought it up. Cachers, especially new ones such as yourself, need to be made aware of stuff like this. This cache specifically so other cachers don't have to deal with this guy, and the idea in general that situations like this can and do happen, and how to try to avoid it.

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Late last summer, I was finishing up a canoe trip at this cache. I knew there was a reasonable take out spot someplace near, but the only place I could see would require me to cross what is obviously private property.

 

I could see some movement up by the house, so I beached the canoe, and from there I began shouting, "hello!" I continued to see movement, but I got no response to my shouts so I climbed out of the canoe and slowly began walking toward the buildings, still shouting.

 

As I approached the house, I heard the (by now I could see that it was a grizzly looking dude with bibs and a santa style beard) gentleman say, "git 'em," and immediately a large dog galluped over to great me.

 

I still had my paddle in my hand, so I raised it, immediately stopping the big dog. The chicken-poop (no offense Stunod) dog low-tailed it back to his master as I began to retreat to my boat.

 

By the time I got back in the canoe, the grizzly dude was walking out toward me. This is when I saw the big (colt 45, I think) gun strapped to his leg. He was walking toward me with his hand just above the weapon, just like in the movies.

 

He asked unpolitely what the hell I was doing. I explained I was looking for a place to to take out and asked if I could cross his property.

 

"I don't think so," he said; his hand was now actually touching the gun. He continued to explain, "Canoers are the biggest dadgum bunch of thieves I've ever seen."

 

I thanked him anyway, and shoved off. I found the proper take out spot a few hundred meters downstream. I also found the cache, but I'm still pissed about that guy's "manners" to this day.

 

I guess I'll get over it, but it's not as much fun

when some idiot wants to show off his IQ with a gun. :):)

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Did you ever call him back to inform his as to the killer of JFK?

 

If you did that maybe he'd calm down a bit, but maybe not.

 

My Father usually carries his pistol with him while out in the woods for animals and now for these crazy freaks!

 

Thanks for the interresting story.

 

Maybe you should create a cache to pass this sotry on to others.

 

-KolarBear :)

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you know, kolar bear, maybe a few years ago i would have done that, but now, i believe i will just let it lay. something tells me this situation will take care of itself sooner or later anyway. he will meet someone just a little bit crazier than he is and that will be the tragic end of that.

 

lot's and lot's more caches out there. i mean look at chemfed, he goes underwater for caches for goodness sake! my wife, who is Canadian, and i go up there 3 or 4 times a year. that is a whole other country to hunt in, and they don't pack guns up there!! of course, neither do i, and that is ok.

 

cole

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