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Not Logging Your Find..


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I adopted a cache earlier this year. When I replaced the log book I went through the old log book and found every entry in the log book matched online. Over 100 visitors.

 

But of interest is that of the 25 cachers I have met while hunting, three have never logged the find online. One cacher just saw that box and that was good enough for them, they also have not signed in with their userid in almost three years.

Edited by jcar
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Probably a very small percentage here in NC too. I can't think of any active serious cacher who doesn't log online in these parts.

Of course, if someone is a serious active cacher who doesn't log online, they probably aren't going to post that in the forums either since they don't bother coming in here either. B)

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There was a cemetery cache where the owner, moving, archived and redistributed the cache goodies and bugs. He noted, "Thank you to the brave souls who visited the Blair Witch Cache!

For those who wrote in the log book but never posted on geocaching.com, we will tell your loved ones that you died doing what you loved!"

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Seems to me SOMEONE said they would give us the option of having our stats hidden, a long time ago.... :P:P

The people I know about are indeed lazy, and they admit it to me often. This was no hidden jibe, poke or prod. Not even a toe tap.

 

I don't think it's "about the numbers" and I log every cache I find. I don't care what others think, which should be sufficient. A silent protest is fine for you but frankly I find it a silly protest. If you don't care about the numbers, why should you care if anyone else does? Log it for the hider and for the people who plan to look for it. Or, email the finder privately if you don't want the evil geocachers seeing your logs.

 

Not sure I committed to having functionality to hide finds from the evil geocaching community, but maybe I did in the past. If I did, I retract that statement, claim, promise, or whatever.

 

I get so tired of these covert references that no one can figure out. How about handing them a map?

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Relax, Boss, I didn't take it as any subliminal poke at me, just trying to let people know I am not lazy...

Hey, can you hand me the tv remote? Thanks.....hey, since you're up.... :P

 

I DO leave a "note" on the cache page, to let the owner know what kind of shape the cache is in, what kind of adventure I had while finding it, etc....

Edited by TEAM 360
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I agree it is pretty good around here, though I know quite a few lazy folks who never get around to it.

Hey! I'm not lazy! :P

I don't care about logs any more though. I tend to forget, anymore.

 

I don't agree that people tend to log around here. My two highest traffic caches, just under half don't log. I remember replacing a 250 page log book when there were only 120 logs on the cache page.

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Hey! I'm not lazy! :P

I don't care about logs any more though. I tend to forget, anymore.

Sorry. I forgot to add apathetic. I think apathy is the major reason for not logging online, especially if you aren't too worried about creating a diary of your trips.

 

(edit: speling :P)

Edited by Jeremy
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I'd say that about 30% of the people who log my paper log book do not log online. I'd also guess that there is a significant number of people who don't bother to log either. These statements are based on observations at the caches I have maintained and judging from the contents of the ammo boxes versus the statements made in the logs.

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Sorry. I forgot to add apathetic. I think apathy is the major reason for not logging online, especially if you aren't too worried about creating a diary of your trips.

 

I used to be apathetic......but I don't care anymore......

 

Seriously......Everyone who has visited my cache has logged his visit!

 

Planemaker

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I have noted a couple of the recent caches I've found have not all been logged online. I don't understand the opposition to having one's stats posted, but I need my ego stroked more than others I suppose.

 

I like to look back at the caches I have found and see how many have found it besides me.

 

Another thing, just like one cache I recently attempted to find, but also discovered that others had the same problem--the box was no longer there. Local hunters have no respect for such as this.

 

I think when you post your log, you are letting folks know the cache is still active and still worth spending the time to look for.

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Huh! I though most folks didn't audit logs.

 

I don't keep a tally of who didn't log online. I just make sure everyone who did log online signed the logbook.

 

When we do come across an entry that's not on our audit sheet, we read it a bit more closely to see how their experiences were. Most of the time it's the same short note as anyone else.

 

Of course, we have some hybrids so we expect more in the logbook than online.

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Hold the phone. Lets forget about the numbers. Put some focus on the cache owner. I have been known place a cache check my e-mail almost hourly. For me receiving the notice that someone has found my cache is just as important as finding caches. It lets me know folks enjoyed or did not enjoy the hunt. The log also gives me an idea of the caches condition. Now I am not perfect I have forgotten to log a cache, but I don't go out of my way to log them. Last week I got an e-mail from someone who found one of my caches, but I never reveived aa log post. I checked their stats but they had nothing at all listed. The e-mail said "thanks for the cache, check the newspaper on friday". So now I have no clue which cache was found or where I can get that paper. Selfish is the only word I can think of, a total violation of cacher and cache owner relations. Don't forget there is another human being on the other side who wants to know about the experience.

 

Nuwati

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Last week I got an e-mail from someone who found one of my caches, but I never reveived aa log post. I checked their stats but they had nothing at all listed. The e-mail said "thanks for the cache, check the newspaper on friday". So now I have no clue which cache was found or where I can get that paper.

 

The sender of that email was likely on the cache page when he followed the links to send it - HE knew where he started and assumed you would. Not selfish so much as technically challenged. I've twice had emails asking about "this cache" - without referencing which cache - the sender started on the cache page, and doesn't understand that all I see is her email, not the cache page from which she started.

 

I do like seeing my caches logged online, but in winter, when large numbers of "snowbirds" come to Florida, they log online at about a 50% rate. Then there are vacationers who may log months later. Even though they don't log online at a very high rate, I love the snowbirds, many of them trade substantially up - even leaving nice items and taking nothing.

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Whoa! Hold the phone!

 

If logging online is a courtesy to the cache owner. What is not logging online?

 

Dave Ulmer, the father of hobby, said, "...I only bother to sign the log if the cache has brought me to a really sweet spot." From Today's Cacher. At this point in time I see he's only logged 13 caches online!

 

I don't know if this is what is being implied here, but let's not go down the road of "if you don't log online you are not being a courteous cacher."

 

Logging online should be no more demanded than picking trash out of the cache or doing minor repairs. Yes, it's nice to do, but let's not expect it.

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I don't know if this is what is being implied here, but let's not go down the road of "if you don't log online you are not being a courteous cacher."

 

Why not? If the owner spent the time, effort and money to place a cache, the least the finder can do is let the owner know he found it.

Hmmm... What do the letterboxers do?

 

Yeah, I know all about postcards and such. But the majority of the time, it's maybe a thank note or some such, if you get any feedback at all.

 

There are plenty of letterbox finders on our boxes, but little online feedback.

 

But you know what? That's perfectly fine. We didn't place the box, or the cache for that matter, to stroke our egos. We did it with a hope to entertain someone for a short time.

 

Now, don't get me wrong. We love feedback, especially on some of our more adventuresome caches, like the SSW series. But do we expect it? Nope.

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CR, if nobody at ll every gave you any feedback of any type would you be placing caches? Would you enjoy going out to check on a cahe and finding the contets degraded but no not, no clue, no evidence of the visit?

 

I'll wager you need at least some feedback and that if there was none at all you wouldn't bother placing caches. You would have to be an eccentric type to enjoy your hidden boxes if you never heard a word about people finding them. For that matter if nobody did give feedback then you don't really need to list them either.

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I've never not logged a find. I've also never not logged a DNF. I did, just recently, forget to log a TB. :P It wasn't on purpose and I was horrified (at myself) when the TB owner very nicely e-mailed me about it. I'm very much a detail-oriented person, but I realize not everyone is, so I guess logging finds isn't a big deal to some people. As a cache owner, I would love it if everyone who attempts a search of my caches would log it online in some way.

Edited by Pipanella
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CR, if nobody at ll every gave you any feedback of any type would you be placing caches?

We're not talking about "feedback of any type." We're talking about logging online.

 

Quite frankly, I don't care if you log online or not. Just don't say you found it when you didn't. Signing the log takes care of that and that's all that I require if you're going to claim it.

 

Heck, if you're like Dave Ulmer, I don't care if you say you found it when you didn't sign the log if you're not trying to add it to some stat somewhere.

 

It is very well true that if I got absolutely no feedback that I might just not place anything. Signing the logbook takes care of that. Heck, seeing the trade items move in and out of a cache is some feedback.

 

Yes, thoughtful feedback of positive experiences does encourage more placings.

 

Still, is it required? Nope. You only need enough to keep you going. That doesn't mean everyone has to provide feedback--just enough.

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Hmmm... What do the letterboxers do?

 

You're comparing clams and oysters.

Yes, and they are both yummy.

 

The basic premise is the exact same thing. You hide something for someone else to find and, hopefully, enjoy the experience. Where they are listed, the clues to finding them, and what is in the containers are really the only differences.

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I think logging online is important. It's courteous (yea, and if that offends you, tough). I think the feedback for the owner/hider and the future hunters (who don't mind or WANT spoilers or additional info) is important.

 

I also view the online log as a BACKUP for the paperlog. Caches sometimes get stolen or just disappear. Logbooks and logsheets get damaged or destroyed. There's no way to check the paper log in that case. I don't know many cachers that can or will check the logs of all of their caches daily.

 

sd

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It seems more like etiquette for a cache hunt, not a rule. If it was a rule you couldn't enforce it anyway.

 

For etiquette sake, I know I'm not the "founder," but for the guy who has worked on the site continuously for 4 1/2 years, I find that not logging the find on the web site is rude. Provide the person who hid the cache some feedback.

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CR, if nobody at ll every gave you any feedback of any type would you be placing caches?

We're not talking about "feedback of any type." We're talking about logging online.

 

Quite frankly, I don't care if you log online or not. Just don't say you found it when you didn't. Signing the log takes care of that and that's all that I require if you're going to claim it.

 

Heck, if you're like Dave Ulmer, I don't care if you say you found it when you didn't sign the log if you're not trying to add it to some stat somewhere.

 

It is very well true that if I got absolutely no feedback that I might just not place anything. Signing the logbook takes care of that. Heck, seeing the trade items move in and out of a cache is some feedback.

 

Yes, thoughtful feedback of positive experiences does encourage more placings.

 

Still, is it required? Nope. You only need enough to keep you going. That doesn't mean everyone has to provide feedback--just enough.

The only log that can't be stolen is the online log. Providing zero feedback makes a person a parasite. Only signing the cache log puts the finder at risk of their log never being seen by anyone who matters.

 

I don't think we are too far apart. My kids don't log online but they do get logged in the book. I'm certainly not going to stop them from caching or force them to log. However I will encourage them to log online and eventually they will 'get it'.

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Although I am a huge proponent of logging DNFs (always), I don't really have any problem with those who simply choose to not log (finds) at all, or are careless about logging them.

 

I can only substantiate these feelings by rationalizing that people who DNF and not log it, would have logged, if they found it. And DNFs can signal that there may be a problem with the cache.

 

People who chose not to log finds online are not in the same category, I believe, because if they found it, they found it. If there is no problem at the cache site, that's the minimum requirement to cache.

 

The difference is, if you don't find a cache, you're never really sure if there is a problem with the cache or not. A good reason to log DNFs.

 

I would like to see everyone log all of their caching activity. I always enjoy watching online the activity of my caches, and I love to browse through other's online comments. ;);)

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For some, finding caches is a training exercise to teach the usage of GPS, nothing more. No need to even open the cache once it is located. Why log it online in that case? Further, consider the possibility that the cache finder doesn't own a pc or have internet access and is merely using printed directions someone else gave them.

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The only log that can't be stolen is the online log.

No, but someone could get in a huff and delete their logs.

 

I don't need a full audit of everyone who has opened my cache. If you liked it enough to leave me some feedback, then fine.

 

And like I said before, good feedback does keep us going and wanting to do more.

 

Besides, is it rude to not leave any feedback on a cache just flat out sucks? You know, if you can't say anything nice, don't any anything at all.

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It seems like CR is trying to convince everyone that it's better, or at least acceptable, not to log your finds. I disagree, that's totally unacceptable to me. But as Jeremy said, you can't inforce it so it's impossible to make it a requirement.

 

For those of you that don't log your finds online, how do you keep up with the caches you haven't found? After you find a few hundred in your area, can you remember the names of all of them? Have you ever gone for a cache and when you got there remembered that you'd been there over a year before?

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It's courteous (yea, and if that offends you, tough).

How about reading my other posts before assuming being courteous is offensive to me. Maybe think you might see my point.

I did, and my statement wasn't necessarily aimed at you - but at anybody that gets offended, however:

 

I don't know if this is what is being implied here, but let's not go down the road of "if you don't log online you are not being a courteous cacher."

 

If you don't have a good reason, you're not being courteous. End of story. We're not talking about the anti-stat people that don't log online but DO email the owner EVERY time they find a cache (or log a note instead). We're not talking about the anti-internet trail people who don't log online but do email the person (of course, email leaves a trail so.... what's the point?).

 

We're talking about the people who sign the logbook, (or even worse don't sign the logbook OR log online.... but we really have little way to know how many people do that), but don't log online OR send emails.

 

It's been my experience from talking to other cachers - that the majority of people that don't log online - they DON'T email either. None of the people that didn't log my caches online emailed me. I would guess that the people who send emails are in a minority of non-online-loggers.

 

(Renegade Knight @ Dec 5 2004, 03:14 PM)

The only log that can't be stolen is the online log. 

 

No, but someone could get in a huff and delete their logs.

 

Let's not forget about the fact that as an owner, you get an email everytime somebody logs your cache. Somebody may get in a huff and delete the online logs - but I have the emails all saved in a folder so I've got the feedback and I've basically got a copy of my online log.

 

There are some good reasons for not logging online - so I'm not saying that everybody that doesn't log online lacks courtesy. I'm just saying that a lot of the people don't have a good reason.

 

sd

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Parasite. Rude. Insensitive.

There is alot of name-calling being thrown around about whether or not people log online, or even in the cache logbook. ;)

Hey, I've got a great idea.

Why not let people play this GAME their own way? ;)

Enjoy the online logs that you DO get, and just be satisfied that your cache is out there, giving others a fun experience while trying to find it. ;)

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Parasite. Rude. Insensitive.

There is alot of name-calling being thrown around about whether or not people log online, or even in the cache logbook. ;)

Hey, I've got a great idea.

Why not let people play this GAME their own way? ;)

Enjoy the online logs that you DO get, and just be satisfied that your cache is out there, giving others a fun experience while trying to find it. ;)

HEAR! HEAR!

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It seems like CR is trying to convince everyone that it's better, or at least acceptable, not to log your finds. I disagree, that's totally unacceptable to me. But as Jeremy said, you can't inforce it so it's impossible to make it a requirement.

Wow, I didn't know that my argument for not calling someone rude or discourteous for not logging online was paramount to advocating it was better to not log online.

 

But, let's just take the portion in bold and you even said it yourself.

 

So, why sweat it?

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It seems like CR is trying to convince everyone that it's better, or at least acceptable, not to log your finds.  I disagree, that's totally unacceptable to me.  But as Jeremy said, you can't inforce it so it's impossible to make it a requirement.

Wow, I didn't know that my argument for not calling someone rude or discourteous for not logging online was paramount to advocating it was better to not log online.

 

But, let's just take the portion in bold and you even said it yourself.

 

So, why sweat it?

Just because you can't inforce something doesn't mean it's acceptable.

 

If you don't log your finds you're keeping information from owners that they'd like to have, and it is indeed unacceptable.

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If you don't log your finds you're keeping information from owners that they'd like to have, and it is indeed unacceptable.

You mean log their finds online. You also mean "unacceptable to you."

 

Do you audit logbooks?

 

Let's say you don't. If you're not auditing logbooks you don't know, or care, if the folks who claimed the find actually found the cache. If you're demanding folks leave feedback if they found the cache, but don't audit logbooks, just tells me you're looking for feedback and don't care if they actually found the cache.

 

Let's say you do audit logbooks. You print out the online tally of logs and compare it to the logbook. You find folks who have signed the logbook but didn't log online. Well, you're looking at their log right now, so what's the difference? They didn't write much in the logbook? What makes you think they would have written any more online? They wrote a 3 page commentary on their experiences online? Fine you've just read it.

 

You found someone who didn't sign the logbook but claimed the find online? Do you question them? Do you delete the log? You'd better because if you demand online feedback, but don't delete bogus logs then, again, you don't really care if they found the cache, just that they left feedback.

 

Now, considering the thread a while back about the percentage of folks who actually audit the logbook, I have to wonder if your statement "you're keeping information from owners that they'd like to have" really is "owners in general" or a much smaller subset of owners.

 

Next, let's consider the argument "providing feedback let's the owner and others know the condition of the cache." What about caches that get visited very often or fairly often, and those cachers that don't log promptly. Another cacher comes along and logs online before the previous finder does. What has demanding logging online accomplished? What has it accomplished if the finder logs nothing but "TNLNSL?"

 

How long can you wait to log online? A few days, a few weeks, a year? Does it matter how long you wait to log, just as long as you do? Again, what does a "TNLNSL" logged a year late really accomplish.

 

Next, is the question of honesty. Do you really want them to be honest? Some might rather not log at all than give a terse TNLNSL, but are loathe to say what's really on their mind because it would be impolite. I suppose a "Thanks for getting me out of the house" would do, meaning "I'd rather have taken the yard debris to the dump." But, really, is that any better than TNLNSL?

 

Besides that, with the ease at which a cache owner can delete a log that is critical, I don't see the point of logging an honest log of your negative experiences. Unless you can take the heat of a truly critical log, I wouldn't be demanding that everyone log.

 

Next, let's consider the somewhat acceptable practice of "additional logging requirements." Let's say the logging requirement was something you just didn't want to do--maybe you're boycotting ALRs. So, now you're just going to be rude and not log the cache because somebody wants you to write the log without using the letter 'E'?

 

Now, even if you did pass all of the above tests that point to one having a standing for demanding online logs, how in the world are you going to get even a simple majority on board, much less a general consensus?

 

Personally, I see plenty of reasons it is perfectly acceptable to not log a cache online, or even give any feedback what so ever.

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I haven’t been doing this geocaching thing long, although I feel it is the only form of sport that is going to keep me interested for any length of time due to my love of technology.

 

I have spent a lot of time reading these forums to see how other people ‘play the game’ and what etiquette I should try to observe.

 

From what I have seen so far on the forums there is a set of people who want others to ‘play the game’ their way. They appear to do this by attempting to get their method of playing the game to become the official way and frown on anyone else’s method of playing.

 

I must also say that there are a set of people on the forums who don’t care about such issues and are willing to go with the flow and get on with their lives.

 

As a newbie to the sport I find all these regulations, rules, etiquette, ethics, and peoples view points quite confusing and also detracting from the ethos of the sport. The more you regulate something the less accessible it will be to people.

 

At the end of the day the only rules and regulations that people can be forced to observe will be the laws of the country they are in at the time. If you own a cache then you are placing something in what is effectively a public place. What happens to it from that point on is out of your control. You may not like it but you are going to have to live with it. You can ask people to do something but you are not going to be able to force them to do it. You can, after all, lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.

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