Caching And Spiritual Matters...

[+Team Grizzly]

I know that Geocaching and Groundspeak does not promote any religion or faith issues, but I am just curious (in this open forum of discussion) if there are many cachers out there who are interested in spiritual things and if they have any great insights to share. Frequently I have seen Christian Gospel tracks in caches and other evangelistic things, just wonder what people think of them...

 

I don't really have an agenda in starting this thread - just wanted to participate in a friendly discussion. PLEASE don't use this thread to bash others or get into a theological debate, which might cause division!

[+fly46]

Hard to say.

I'm against people trying to make you believe 'their' religion is 'the' religion, but if they're just leaving a pamphlet in the side of a cache, then it's your choice on whether or not to pick it up.. They're not stuffing them in your coat pockets to make sure that you take one home.

 

If I were to find one in a cache of mine, i'd chuck it (especially if it were pamphlets and flyers), but I'd probably leave it as long as the cache didn't look too cluttered if I found it in a cache of someone else's.

[+Renegade Knight]

Lately I've been pondering if separation of church and state applies to aethism as well.

[CoyoteRed]

Opps! Should have waited on posting to the signature item thread and posted it here!

 

From my other post: My personal feelings are tracts don't belong, but personal sig items are fine. The sig item "defines" a person and if religion is part of their life, then so be it. Tracts on the other hand simply can not be viewed any other way than being an advertisement for one's belief. I mean, "Are you saved?" How can that be anything other than an attempt to draw someone in? It belongs no more than a borchure for the local automart.

 

For me religion is fine as long as you don't push it on me. You want to say you are a person of faith, no problem. Want to start telling me how to live, now we have a problem. Tracts are a promotion of one's beliefs. "Are you saved?" "Are you sure you're going to Heaven?" "The only true happiness is through Jesus Christ." These are more than tokens of one's belief. They are solicitations for others to belief too.

[CoyoteRed]

Lately I've been pondering if separation of church and state applies to aethism as well.

How so? Just curious.

 

You do know secular and atheist are completely different, right?

[+fly46]

Lately I've been pondering if separation of  church and state applies to aethism as well.

How so? Just curious.

 

You do know secular and atheist are completely different, right?

It's all in how it's presented...

If it's known you're an atheist, it's one thing...

If you sit there telling people they're stupid because they have a god or whatever they worship, it's another.

 

Same with if you walk around wearing a cross or a pentacle or whatever else vs walking around handing out Chict Tracts (the little religious comic book things) or preaching or signing logs with bible verses or leaving pagan rituals or the torah or painting the five principals of islam on the side of your ammo box..

[+Jeeters]

The religious stuff in the caches bothers me a little. Not to get into an argument, but when I open the cache and see this stuff, I feel like I'm being preached to. To me, there's a time and place for such things and caching isnt one of them. I'm out caching to enjoy day, to get away from the world. I don't like opening a cache and suddenly finding out that I need to take action to save my soul from supposed damnation.

 

I visited one cache last year which somebody had stuffed with several prayer cards and pamphlets for some Christian youth group, along with a couple of Christian-themed blank notepads which took up 3/4s the container. There was so much stuff in the container that it was almost impossible for me to re-close the thing. I thought that was going overboard... like they were trying to turn the cache into a youth group recruiting center or something. That cache was extreme, though... most, of course, just contain the single prayer card or something which I just leave be.

 

EDIT: I should probably clarify that this cache had been stuffed with this paraphanalia by a recent cache finder, not the cache owner.

Edited April 19, 2004 by Jeeters

[+fly46]

I must add something here, though..

If the cache you go to is placed by a preacher or a church youth group, or Sister Mary Clarence or something... then you kinda need to go expecting it to be full of this stuff..

 

 

(and applause for Jeeters for saying what he did so well.)

[+protocoldroid]

I've seen a number of 'tracts'... and they honestly don't bother me at all.

 

There's nothing saying you can't put any kind of textual information you want in the cache... For whatever religion, or organization, with or without an agenda. I've also seen trading cards with specs for planes on Delta Airlines... In a number of respects, it's the same thing... A little bit of information, a little bit of advertising.

 

As the saying goes "the pen is mightier than the sword", and seeing you can't/shouldn't/have-agreed-not-to put a sword in the cache... The pen is the next reasonable alternative.

 

Leave the new testament and leave a Christian agenda, leave an Ayn Rand book and promote a aetheist agenda, leave a Bill O'Reilly book and promote a conservative agenda, leave a Michael Moore book and promote a liberal agenda.

 

The bottom line is... who cares if it's left or not left. People just don't up and change their minds about their politics and their religion so easily. IMHO, it's best left at the doorstep, and... If you don't like it, leave it alone, or take your own vector and form your own agenda by distributing new and different material. If you're caching in the US... This is part of the whole idea of our nation -- you get to lead yourself on the road of happiness in your own peaceful way, and so does everyone else.

 

If you're disappointed you have to -see- a religious tract, think of how unhappy you would be if your tax money was paying the church...?

 

...I just don't want 'religious tracts' to be added to the list of banned things. The less and more efficient the rules the better, let the demand of the people define what is in the cache and what isn't.

[WolfPack2099]

Lots of good comments here! While I can see both sides, I tend to agree with what Jeeters said. When I go caching, the last thing I want to see is religious pamphlets. I get preached at enough for my religious views....I don't want to be preached at while enjoying a hobby. However, if there are religious items in a cache, I usually just ignore them. While I find them to be out of place in a cache, they really don't bother me too much. Pamphelts are much easier to ignore than people.

[+Sparrowhawk]

There's a local puzzle cache with a church/worship theme. It started when I had a very clever camo container to give away, this one guy got it.

 

He then made a difficult cache out of it, emphasizing the worship and church theme. In over a year, it's had maybe 5 finds tops. I figured that was because the local cache-geniuses were being utterly outfoxed.

 

So I posted in the NW forum asking something like" "HA! So is this cache just too challenging for you guys or what?"

 

The answer I got was a lot of lukewarm reaction to the theme of the cache, to put it politely... as if that made most folks lose interest in putting effort into finding it.

 

Hmmm... Are these cachers using the worship theme as a way of just not admitting they weren't able to find it? Or did the theme really make it not-so-popular? Would that cache have gotten more finds with a more secular theme? Hmmmm...

 

Only way to answer that, I guess, is start a cache with an overtly relegious theme, watch the reaction, then deliberately change the theme after 4 months or so, and see if the finds speed up after the re-naming.

Edited April 19, 2004 by Sparrowhawk

[+AmishHacker]

Thanks for the thread.

 

My beliefs in God and the way I live my life is not for just "certain times" nor is there just "a time for that type of thing" like on Sundays. I you really believe in something you will live it with everything you do. I do not go to work and stop talking about the things of God because its the work week. Nor will I ever. There are many people who only see "religion" as something they do on a Sunday and there is a time and place for it and not for it. Geocaching is a great hobby. It lets you get out in God's creation and enjoy the planet he has given to us. Should we discourage anyone from sharing......not at all. If you fell like you are being "preached at" each time you see a tract.....then maybe you need to read it or at least figure out why you feel convicted or borthered by it.

 

In conclusion, I have not left any tracts yet but I have thought about it before. I love finding religious items in the caches and collect them. If you do not feel comfortable with them thats fine....leave it. Peoples personalities show all the time with sig items and the things they trade.....look at it as a time to find out more about others. I found a religious item by Cybret before in a cache. I stated talking with him and found out more about his beliefs and have enjoyed good fellowship with him. I find no problem with these items in caches........ok i did the typing....any "dittos" in the forums ????

 

Edit: Type O left not let

Edited April 19, 2004 by AmishHacker

[+bigredmed]

Religious pamphlets bug me a little if they are in a cache and ALOT when they are most of the items in a cache. Nothing quite like a 2 mile hike at the end of which is a box full of brochures for a church that I don't want to go to.

 

As for the question of atheism or secularism being a religion regulated by the separation clause, if they aren't, they should be. The establishment of religion clause was intended to prevent the developement of a state religion. It seems that secularism IS becoming the state religion.

 

We have a park in Plattsmouth that had a statue of the 10 commandments. A sizeable group of people reached into their pockets to pay for the statue and place it there. The city has no out of pocket expenses related to it. ONE GUY with a bug up his *** has sued the city into submission and now all these people who like it, have to see it removed simply to appease the sensibilties of the state religion.

[+beejay&esskay]

ONE GUY with a bug up his *** has sued the city into submission and now all these people who like it, have to see it removed simply to appease the sensibilties of the state religion.

It's a shame that Federal Courts believe that the Constitution should be enforced.

[bug and snake]

I posted on another thread that had evolved into a similar discussion. I make no apologies for cutting and paste-ing that post here.

 

<cut-paste>

QUOTE (TotemLake @ Apr 10 2004, 05:43 PM)

May as well talk knives in a cache. It'll raise the same hackles in some and not in others. Live and let be. If it offends you (generically speaking), don't trade for it but remember the words of The Penguin... One man's trash is another man's treasure! Wuack wuack wuack wuack!

 

I have to say that I am completely with you on this one. I would never remove even a religious tract from a cache - far less any other religious item. Now, if the cache had been stuffed to the top with tracts, yeah. That is a bit too 'in yer face' for me. However, if anyone can't see a tract in a cache without removing it I have to wonder why - I have seen no good reason put forward so far for doing so.

 

QUOTE

Solicitations are also off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, or social agendas may not be listed.

 

I don't see a religious tract as being a solicitation if, for example, it is a general 'get saved' message as opposed to a 'come to THIS church' message. If we all removed stuff we simply don't like from caches they would soon empty out. (even quicker than the 'trading down' problem!)

While free speech extends beyond verbalizations, don't forget that you are also free to NOT LISTEN (READ) but others may wish to.

If you wish to remove such items from YOUR caches then perhaps you aught to ask that they not be left in the first place. However, while I don't place them in my own caches, if any turn up, they can stay there unless some other cacher wishes to take them legitimately. I don't follow baseball, but baseball cards are welcome too. Both items have significance in the lives of the people who place them.

</cut-paste>

 

Edited: Why does the speel chucker not run ottomaticuly?

Edited April 19, 2004 by bug&snake

[+AmishHacker]

ONE GUY with a bug up his *** has sued the city into submission and now all these people who like it, have to see it removed simply to appease the sensibilties of the state religion.

It's a shame that Federal Courts believe that the Constitution should be enforced.

Its a shame people really do not understand separation of church and state or the Constitution.

 

Anytime religion is mentioned within the confines of government today people cry, "Separation of Church and State". Many people think this statement appears in the first amendment of the U.S. Constitution and therefore must be strictly enforced. However, the words: "separation", "church", and "state" do not even appear in the first amendment. The first amendment reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." The statement about a wall of separation between church and state was made in a letter on January 1, 1802, by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association of Connecticut. The congregation heard a widespread rumor that the Congregationalists, another denomination, were to become the national religion. This was very alarming to people who knew about religious persecution in England by the state established church. Jefferson made it clear in his letter to the Danbury Congregation that the separation was to be that government would not establish a national religion or dictate to men how to worship God. Jefferson's letter from which the phrase "separation of church and state" was taken affirmed first amendment rights. Jefferson wrote:

 

I contemplate with solemn reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State.

 

The reason Jefferson choose the expression "separation of church and state" was because he was addressing a Baptist congregation; a denomination of which he was not a member. Jefferson wanted to remove all fears that the state would make dictates to the church. He was establishing common ground with the Baptists by borrowing the words of Roger Williams, one of the Baptist's own prominent preachers.

Edited April 19, 2004 by AmishHacker

[+Gizmo & Brazin]

At the risk of being flamed, (I do consider myself to be a Christian) I find no pleasure at opening a cache with religious brochures inside. If a religious item is left as a signature item or a trade item (Cross, bible) I think that's great, but NO brochures, please! Brochures are not trade items. And if you are just leaving brochures without taking anything, then they become promotional materials. You may be promoting something I beleve in, but you are promoting, none the less. Over time brochures get worn and dirty and quickly become GeoTrash.

[Keystone]

The posts discussing religious items left in caches, and/or religious-themed caches, are on-topic to this forum.

 

Posts describing religious experiences while caching would probably be on-topic to this forum.

 

A generalized debate about the First Amendment, separation of church and state, the establishment clause and/or the free exercise clause are off-topic to this forum. Geocaching.com is not the government.

 

Thank you.

[ghOzt]

Ditto to Gizmo & Brazin's remarks.

 

Let me add that if you wish to express your beliefs in a geocache, for whatever reason, brochures are obviously not the most tactful way that can be done. Why not use a little effort and create a nice signature item that expresses who you are, or somehow work it into your log? I'm sure no one would object then. Brochures are garbage in most people's eyes and certainly not worthy of taking.

[+Harrald]

<<SNIP>>

just wonder what people think of them...

<<SNIP>>

They would only bother me if they hid the logbook. Other than that, I couldn't tell you what was in any of the caches I've found.

[+AmishHacker]

There's a local puzzle cache with a church/worship theme. It started when I had a very clever camo container to give away, this one guy got it.

 

He then made a difficult cache out of it, emphasizing the worship and church theme. In over a year, it's had maybe 5 finds tops. I figured that was because the local cache-geniuses were being utterly outfoxed.

 

So I posted in the NW forum asking something like" "HA! So is this cache just too challenging for you guys or what?"

 

The answer I got was a lot of lukewarm reaction to the theme of the cache, to put it politely... as if that made most folks lose interest in putting effort into finding it.

 

Hmmm... Are these cachers using the worship theme as a way of just not admitting they weren't able to find it? Or did the theme really make it not-so-popular? Would that cache have gotten more finds with a more secular theme? Hmmmm...

 

Only way to answer that, I guess, is start a cache with an overtly relegious theme, watch the reaction, then deliberately change the theme after 4 months or so, and see if the finds speed up after the re-naming.

This is one of my fav caches of all time. It just matches my personality and I thought was done well. It has a strong religious theme..... Wayside Repose .

There are lots more pictures here!

 

I wish there were more of them. Some people may stay away, but I do not think anyone should say its not appropriate.

[Ellylidan]

You sniveling fat-filled bags know nothing of spirituality. I have been to both planes, much could I teach you if I chose to do so.

[CoyoteRed]

It seems that secularism IS becoming the state religion.

Huh? "Secularist religion" is an oxymoron. Look up the definition of "secularism" and basically it says it's religious indifference. Meaning something that is secular is without religious bounds. In short, a secular government does not concern itself with religious matters. Many companies in the US are secular as they aren't bound by, or are concerned by, religious matters. They make decisions based on something other than spiritual matters.

 

Many people mistake "secular" for "atheist." An atheist country would be like the old USSR where it denied religion. It took a stance on religious matter and was certainly not secular.

 

Another way to look at it is the notion of "polite conversation" which dictates that one doesn't talk about religion among other things. This would mean the conversation is secular, worldly. For those who get bent out of shape about things secular, what about polite conversation?

 

Shouldn't geocaching be like polite conversation?

Edited April 19, 2004 by CoyoteRed

[Keystone]

You sniveling fat-filled bags know nothing of spirituality. I have been to both planes, much could I teach you if I chose to do so.

I am not quite sure whether I'm supposed to moderate this post, go to church or start working out at the gym. I do think that I will avoid taking a middle seat on the plane. That can be uncomfortable. I like window seats best. You can hold your GPS up to the window and track your flight's progress. In this way, I find myself feeling closer to God.

[+WhipArtist]

I guess I'm lucky... out here in the bay area, I've never come across religious items in a cache.

 

My personal feeling is that tracts are about as appropriate as any other solicitation, be it commercial or political-- that being not at all. Would you want to open a cache and see an ad for the car dealership down the street? How about campaign materials for your least-favorite candidate? If the answer is no, then why would you think it's OK to solicit for your deity?

 

I would be less offended if someone left a religious item (e.g. a St. Christopher's medal) as a trade item.

 

And having mentioned political items, I should note that there's a cache near here that contains a humorous collection of quotes from one of our elected officials. (Think Quayleisms and you'll be in the right neighborhood, if not the right person.) These are clearly intended as humor rather than as political solicitation, and they seem to be just as appropriate as any other joke would be.

[+instep_guy]

ditto

 

well said amish hacker.

[+Jeeters]

If you fell like you are being "preached at" each time you see a tract.....then maybe you need to read it or at least figure out why you feel convicted or borthered by it.[/b]

You're saying that if I feel like I'm being preached to, then maybe I need to be preached to?

[+AmishHacker]

If you fell like you are being "preached at" each time you see a tract.....then maybe you need to read it or at least figure out why you feel convicted or borthered by it.[/b]

You're saying that if I feel like I'm being preached to, then maybe I need to be preached to?

Heheheh....I knew that line would get a quote at some point.

[+flask]

for me it's simple. i'm irritated by most brochures i see in caches. usually somebody leaves these things as if they are some great gift to trade items. every once in a while i see something nicely done with a clean packet of brochures for local points of interest, but usually it's just a useless worn or soggy and worn or crumpled mess. i do not care if the mess is about and ice cream shop or about salvation.

 

it's just a nuisance. and if your signature item is an otherwise anonymous tract that will become cache trash, i'm going to suggest that you're just not trying hard enough. i was thinking of leaving a single kleenex as my signature item. i don't know why i abandoned that idea. a kleenex is something everybody needs, and they're inexpensive.

[+rusty_tlc]

I know that Geocaching and Groundspeak does not promote any religion or faith issues, but I am just curious (in this open forum of discussion) if there are many cachers out there who are interested in spiritual things and if they have any great insights to share. Frequently I have seen Christian Gospel tracks in caches and other evangelistic things, just wonder what people think of them...

 

I don't really have an agenda in starting this thread - just wanted to participate in a friendly discussion. PLEASE don't use this thread to bash others or get into a theological debate, which might cause division!

How would feel if the material was from a non-christian religion?

What if it was from a non-mainstream religion?

What if it was from a religion you violently disagreed with?

 

The non-christian may feel that way about christian tracts.

etc.

etc.

 

Isn't there some kind of saying about not doing things to other people you wouldn't want done to you?

 

My I could give a fig one way or the other. Just trying to make a point.

[+Metaphor]

Though I'm not thrilled to find religious proselytizing in a cache, especially one of my own, I'm not offended by it. I agree that if a person wants to leave a signature item of a religious nature, it's a better, more creative choice. What bothers me more is the religious intolerance of people who cannot accept other spiritual pathways as viable. Would I take a copy of the Bible out of a cache? No. Would I take a copy of the Koran, in these politically charged times? No. Why? I've already read both at one time in my life, as I have other tracts of other denominations and practices. They all say pretty much the same good things. The only reading I would take out of a cache would be from an angle I haven't much knowledge of so far. Just be open-minded toward others -- fanaticism isn't pleasant, no matter which avenue it takes. For the cachers who leave such materials, only do so if you would take something from another religion, very different from your own. That would be a fair trade.

Edited April 19, 2004 by Metaphor

[+AmishHacker]

What do you think about this guys sig item................

 

 

The 10 Commandments are on it

[+Metaphor]

Amish Hacker -- Two questions. Would it turn to mush in a cache, and would The Baptist Deacon be offended by finding a cache of a different faith in a cache?

[+ChileHead]

Personally, I'm very offended at broken McToys. I'd much rather see pamphlets!

 

I've put paperback Bibles in caches before. Does this offend people?

[+OurWoods]

How would feel if the material was from a non-christian religion?

What if it was from a non-mainstream religion?

What if it was from a religion you violently disagreed with?

The non-christian may feel that way about christian tracts.

 

Isn't there some kind of saying about not doing things to other people you wouldn't want done to you?

 

My I could give a fig one way or the other. Just trying to make a point.

 

You bring up good points. I am a Christian, and I am very secure in my faith, I know what and why I believe what I do. I have seen literature for non-Christian religions in Geocaches. It didn't scare me, it didn't upset me, and I did not feel violated or have an overwhelming urge to throw their literature away. I do carry the Gospel of John, and I have added those to some caches, including ones where I have found material I don't agree with. I have seen crosses, Bibles, New Testaments, and tracks as well as "new age" beads, candles, oils and books, etc..

 

Just because you don't agree with certain material doesn't mean you have to take it upon yourself to dispose of it. If it is "hate literature" then that is a different matter, but most religious material isn't hateful. Leaving a booklet isn't exactly "pushing your beliefs on others." If I were to set up a cache that when you opened it, it recited verses or something, that might be pushing it. You have the choice to read the material or leave it for the next person. We are all adults, and like AmishHacker said, if you feel threatened by a little booklet, maybe you should pick it up and read it.

Edited April 20, 2004 by OurWoods

[+WhipArtist]

What bothers me more is the religious intolerance of people who cannot accept other spiritual pathways as viable.

I don't know if you're talking about people who don't like finding religious materials in caches, but in case you are...

 

It's not that I don't accept anyone's spiritual pathways as viable... I do, up until the point where they reach the tip of my nose. It's when someone else attempts to preach to me, convert me, or wants to shape my world in some way based on their religious beliefs that I have a problem.

 

Unfortunately, one of the primary tenets of many religions is that one should attempt to spread the "truth" to as many people as possible, and bring them into that religion. This is often done without the consent of the people being preached to.

 

I suspect that most of the people who leave christian tracts in caches would be quite offended if they found one preaching the joys of islam or atheism, but they don't see what they're doing as being the same thing.

[+Baptist Deacon]

Amish Hacker -- Two questions. Would it turn to mush in a cache, and would The Baptist Deacon be offended by finding a cache of a different faith in a cache?

I can answer those questions. Right now, it would turn to mush, but the next batch that I make are going to be laminated to prevent that. And no, it would not offend me in the least.

[lowracer]

I for one am delighted when I find religious tracts in a cache.

 

They're very handy out in the woods.

 

I do wish they'd print them on softer, more absorbent paper though.

 

[+SBPhishy]

The religious stuff in the caches bothers me a little. Not to get into an argument, but when I open the cache and see this stuff, I feel like I'm being preached to. To me, there's a time and place for such things and caching isnt one of them. I'm out caching to enjoy day, to get away from the world. I don't like opening a cache and suddenly finding out that I need to take action to save my soul from supposed damnation.

 

I totally agree. That's why I usually remove them.

 

Lowracer, that's hilarious.

[Dinoprophet]

I suspect that most of the people who leave christian tracts in caches would be quite offended if they found one preaching the joys of islam or atheism, but they don't see what they're doing as being the same thing.

I don't think they'd be offended at all. Someone that serious about their religion may pray for the poor soul who left it, but I doubt they'd be personally offended.

 

I've seen cachers who are very open in their antithetical religious beliefs happily exchange religious sig items with each other at events. Some of the most popular sig items around here are religious items, most of them non-Christian. I'd say the effect has been the promotion of religious tolerance rather than rampant offense.

 

The only religious tracts I've seen (not in a cache, but anywhere) that I found offensive were Jack Chick tracts, and that's because they are overtly hateful toward Catholics.

[+bons]

The only religious tracts I've seen (not in a cache, but anywhere) that I found offensive were Jack Chick tracts, and that's because they are overtly hateful toward Catholics.

That's unfair. Jack Chick isn't any more hateful to Catholics than he is to everyone else. Jack Chick seems to hate everyone in a very unbiased manner.

 

Personally, if it's my cache, expect to see anything with a religious or anti-religious bias removed. Unless it's Dr. Bronner. Well, I'll remove that too but I'll probably keep it. I like Dr. Bronner.

 

A long long time ago, Steppenwolf had a song called "The Pusher". It descibes my feeling towards those who push their religion on others.

 

If I come to you, be it for a whiskey, a joint, a good joke, or a question about your religion, that's fine. I asked you. But when someone comes to me telling me to take a drink or a hit or sending me the latest kludge or telling me how my life will be better if I just follow the same religion as they do, then I'm sorry. If they aren't enough of an inspiration for me to ask what theirsecret is than their drinks, drugs, jokes, and beliefs aren't cutting it. Their addictions and beliefs (and religion can be either) may be getting them from today or tomorrow, but I got to find my own path.

[+Renegade Knight]

Lately I've been pondering if separation of  church and state applies to aethism as well.

How so? Just curious.

 

You do know secular and atheist are completely different, right?

Without going into great detail consider communism. State enforced atheism.

 

In general I've found the most vocal proponents of atheism to be a mirror image of everything they hate about religion.

 

As far as geocaching and spirituality, I think it makes it easier to be open to the experience of life when you are out in Gods green earth. A lot of the rest of the time we are so busy living we forget to notice that we are alive. Atheist, Agnostic, or Believer life is short, we don’t have time for the BS.

[+Red Clover]

I've removed many things from caches because I didn't feel they were appropriate. Cigs (I smoke but would never leave in a cache), Condoms (umm yeah), a few very un-kid-friendly pictures and religious tracts.

 

If it is a sig item that reflects the personality of the person leaving it I've never had a problem with that. But I would and have removed religious tracts the same as I would remove tracts promoting PETA, homosexuality, Rep vs Democrat, White supremacist, Amway etc. You know what they say never discuss religion or politics in mixed company. And you don't get much more mixed than the caching community.

[+flask]

<snip>

 

For the cachers who leave such materials, only do so if you would take something from another religion, very different from your own. That would be a fair trade.

you know, i was going to quote this and get all snooty about it until i reread it and realized i didn't understand it the first time.

 

all righty then. rock on.

[AC Student]

I've found religious tracts in caches. They don't bother me any more or less than advertisements for weight-loss programs, which I've also found. My response in both cases was to trade them out and toss them.

[+BAF]

Thanks for the thread.

 

My beliefs in God and the way I live my life is not for just "certain times" nor is there just "a time for that type of thing" like on Sundays.  I you really believe in something you will live it with everything you do.  I do not go to work and stop talking about the things of God because its the work week.  Nor will I ever.  There are many people who only see "religion" as something they do on a Sunday and there is a time and place for it and not for it.  Geocaching is a great hobby.  It lets you get out in God's creation and enjoy the planet he has given to us.  Should we discourage anyone from sharing......not at all.  If you fell like you are being "preached at" each time you see a tract.....then maybe you need to read it or at least figure out why you feel convicted or borthered by it.

 

In conclusion, I have not left any tracts yet but I have thought about it before.  I love finding religious items in the caches and collect them.  If you do not feel comfortable with them thats fine....leave it.  Peoples personalities show all the time with sig items and the things they trade.....look at it as a time to find out more about others.  I found a religious item by Cybret before in a cache.  I stated talking with him and found out more about his beliefs and have enjoyed good fellowship with him.  I find no problem with these items in caches........ok i did the typing....any "dittos" in the forums ???? 

 

Edit: Type O left not let

I'll give you a DITTO.

No one forces me to take or to look at any thing in a cache. Therefore I think Geocachers should be able to leave what ever they like.

Edited April 20, 2004 by BAF

[+canadazuuk]

Lately I've been pondering if separation of church and state applies to atheism as well.

 

First off, separation never meant 'no influence'.

 

And second, atheists/humanists deny that their faith in the cosmos and evolution counts as religion.

 

I'll put whatever I like in a cache. If it happens to be 'The Long War Against God' by Henry Morris, then so be it.

[+briansnat]

I'm a devout agnostic and religious tracts in caches don't bother me at all. I'm not threatened by them and I figure someone else may find them interesting.

[CoyoteRed]

Have you ever noticed that most atheists, agnositics, and believers of lesser followed faiths are generally of the type that say just let me believe in peace. Yet, there are far too many believers in the mainstream faiths that not only say "I'll believe the way I want to believe" but also "and I feel I can push my beliefs on you with impunity and without apology, even if I have to get the governement to force you to listen!"

 

All you have to do is look above for examples.

 

I think it clear that a good portion of our community doesn't want tracts in caches, yet anothers feel they have the right to do it anyway regardless of site policy or fellow cacher desire.

 

Sad.

[+Planet]

It's a personal question, but I'll bite. I used to think I was agnostic. If I had to pick a belief it would be this one:

 

Main Entry: pan·the·ism

Pronunciation: 'pan(t)-thE-"i-z&m

Function: noun

Etymology: French panthéisme, from panthéiste pantheist, from English pantheist, from pan- + Greek theos god

1 : a doctrine that equates God with the forces and laws of the universe

2 : the worship of all gods of different creeds, cults, or peoples indifferently; also : toleration of worship of all gods (as at certain periods of the Roman empire)

- pan·the·ist /-thE-ist/ noun

- pan·the·is·tic /"pan(t)-thE-'is-tik/ also pan·the·is·ti·cal /-ti-k&l/ adjective

- pan·the·is·ti·cal·ly /-ti-k(&-)lE/ adverb

 

Number one describes it best. So I guess you could say when I am caching I am in my church.

 

If they had fed me my religion in English and not Latin when I was little, I might have understood it a bit a more. I'm still very confused on the subject, so the decision isn't made yet. Please, no e-mails offereing help on the subject. I was brought up Catholic, Mom became a Witness, sister is a Christian, now Mom's a Christian too, and I get all the info I need from them!