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Originally posted by Jeremy:

1. Users check a box that says "Yes. I think points matter." Only those people become ranked in the system.


2. People can join groups and see rankings of their stats on the web site as a group.


Why not have


3. Put the stats up there, and let the people who don't care about stats check a box in their profile that says 'I don't care about stats' so that it will never show them any sort of stat.



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Originally posted by hydee:

There is a link on the bottom of the main page for http://www.geocaching.com/seek/recent_logs.asp.


frog.gif hydee frog.gif

_I work for the frog_


Hi, maybe I was not clear I would like the function "most recent logs for Switzerland". We don't have so much activity as in USA so our Logs get swamped in the "recent logs" page.


Thanks and best wishes from Switzerland.


Admiral Whitetrousers


[This message was edited by Admiral Whitetrousers on August 19, 2003 at 12:37 PM.]

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I like the stats. I don't find the # of finds to be what I strive for (otherwise I'd take part in the local "cache machines") but I like to use them to set mini-goals for myself. I also like to look up friends of mine and see when they last cached, how many, etc. so that I can give them a hard time about it (in good fun of course).


Personally, I like the stats system the way it is, and wouldn't remove any of what we currently have. Of course, if things were added, such as on Dan's stat page, I could easily be talked into that.

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You Know the first time I found out about this I fell in love with it. Not for the status of the numbers but for the fun.

To answer your questions I would say no to all listed.

I do like the "my cache page" But if I wanted numbers I would add them some where. I like to see who and where they are from and what they think about the cache. It gives me ideas on how to improve my cache sites.

So again I could care less on seeing who has what kind of numbers or who may be # 1 or #1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

If you are doing it just for the numbers I think you are missing somthing.



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Personally, I like the stats and I'm already a bit unhappy that there isn't a simple summary on the user info page (now that's is broken into Traditional/Virtual/Multi/etc.)


I don't care that there isn't a "leaderboard", but I like being able to check the stats of cache placers and of the people who find my cache. I'm hesitant about going after high difficulty caches placed by people who haven't found many caches and I like to know if the FTF's on my caches are veterans.


As a matter of fact, leaderboard type score lists might discourage new cachers unless they were broken down by "Top finders this month" or somesuch.



stream of did I lock the front door? consciousness

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Originally posted by RuffRidr:

Why not have

3. Put the stats up there, and let the people who don't care about stats check a box in their profile that says 'I don't care about stats' so that it will never show them any sort of stat.


I think it was proposed that way for logistical purposes. Its easier to collect and organize information from the people that want to be included than to remove information on those that want to be excluded. Assuming that the # included > # excluded. I could be wrong, but I doubt it! icon_smile.gif



frog.gif Free your mind and the rest will follow frog.gif

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Originally posted by Jeremy:


I can't see why not. And anyone who joins the group can see that group's stats.


frog.gif Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location


Could you belong to more than one group?






Remember what the dormouse said...

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I would not stop geocaching if there were no stats but the stats do make the game more interesting to me.


It warms my heart that Jeremy has chimed in with words that TPTB will consider adding Stats to the site.




Not that I'm ignoring the rumblings in the forum, however. We have been considering two concepts which could find its way on the web site, depending on interest:


1. Users check a box that says "Yes. I think points matter." Only those people become ranked in the system.


2. People can join groups and see rankings of their stats on the web site as a group.




I like the idea that one will have to opt in before their stats will be available. Team Geo-Jedi pledges not to complain. Even though we are a paying customer, we think that $30/year barely covers the enjoyment the family gets from the site. It certainly doesn't lead us to expect immediate responses to our whims!


To that end, I'd suspect that many [of us] would be willing to pay a one-time fee as part of the signup to have one's statistics tabulated.


In addition to the stats being shared in user defined groups, it could be interesting to see stats by city,state,country, and date joined.


Keep up the good work!


Team Geo-Jedi, Searchers 4 Ground Truth

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A year or so ago, there was a thread somewhere that made me pause. Someone pondered what would happen if GC.com disappeared. The gist was that there would no record of one's geocaching history at all (that isn't quite true with The Way Back Machine et al.).


That idea stuck in my head. This site is not guaranteed to last. Some will say that some of the decisions made may even expedite its demise. Nevertheless, I wanted a record of what I have done in this game.


Question #2

I have spent a great deal of time creating a database of my experiences. Despite Jeremy's protestations, I am collating data: the coordinates, names, GC #s, etc. of caches I've been to, names, handles, e-mail addresses, web sites, etc. that pertain to caches I have sought. Throw in all the same for caches hidden and who has found them, hitchhikers launched and found, etc. and pretty soon you have a pretty sizable project. This database has all caches I have been involved with in every capacity from every site.


This database protects my history. That is what it was created for.

To answer your second question, there is always a history of my caching. It may not be available on GC.com and it may not be accurate on someone else's site, but it exists.


Question #3

I can also play with the statistics too when I want. I know my total find count. You can't get that here at GC.com and you couldn't get it at Dan's. If I want to calculate percentages of DNFs to finds, I can. I can do whatever I want with my cache data. There are times when I want to work with those numbers. That's how I am. Heck, I score baseball by hand to get stats to play with.


It's important in that is how I seek entertainment. But I have control of that as well. I am not dependent upon GC.com, Dan's or anyone else for that component. It's true, I cannot complete comparative analysis with other cachers (or at least not the way I have this set up presently). That is interesting at times too. It is not, however, the issue for me that so many here have made it recently.


Question #1

Finally, to answer your first question, no, I would continue caching and having fun despite whatever hypothetical is provided about statistics.


Jeremy's Trial Balloon

I do not think, the way you presented it, I would opt in to a group. The way I have used Dan's site in the past is more cursory. I browse through to see what's happening. It's not a motivator, competition, etc.


Out of curiosity, would these proposed groups have public data or would one have to be a member of the group to see the statistics?





Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose

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I would love it if finds wee only visible to the cacher themselves. To call them a "badge of honor" implies that having less than x number of finds makes you some kind of sub-cacher or something. People put way too much emphasis on find counts. If they disappeared entirely, you could always just count your smileys on your cache page. It might not be a bad idea to block access to others found caches as well.

I found myself going after really lame caches just to up my count. I don't want to waste my time with lame caches, and I don't have some need to be "first" and have the most finds. I was trying to reach that elusive number of finds that gives you the credibility that everyone loves to talk about.

In my opinion, people who want to participate in counting each other's finds can click the tab, and view EACH OTHER'S finds. But people who don't want to paricipate should have any and all methods of determining their find count hidden to all but themselves. Including "caches found by" searches, and the tally at the top of their logs. It's nobody's bussiness but my own how many finds I have, and the only other people who need to see which caches I have found are the owners of those caches.

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Originally posted by leatherman:

I think the people that, truly, don't care about stats don't log finds.

I log finds because I think it's the very least I can do for the person who went to the trouble and expense of hiding the cache. The whole purpose of creating a cache is to see who shows up, and what gets traded.


I like reading other's logs online as well. There have been some great stories told in some of them.


That Quack Cacher:

Lone Duck


When you don't know where you're going, every road will take you there.

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I don't care about anybody's rank.


I do check out other cacher's stats pages, I find it makes things more interesting, and gives me a small window to see how others hunt caches.


I wouldn't stop caching if there were no stats, but it wouldn't be as much fun.



If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?

Well, maybe if they screamed all the time, for no reason.

Click here for my Geocaching pictures and Here (newest)

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Really, I have no problem with stats, it's the way they are used in the forums. I'm sure many would agree that a person's opinion should not be taken lightly based on a low number of finds alone. You will notice that all the people who argue that find counts are useful in determining a cacher's experience are those with many finds. They probably wouldn't argue so vehemently if they only had a couple of finds under their belt, even if they truely believed their points were valid. Must be nice, sitting up there safely behind the wall of immunity formed by a large find count, ignoring or belittling posts by "newbies".

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Hopefully this is still on topic....


The one thing I REALLY miss from Dan's website is the ability to see mine or another person's spread over various states. Of course, living on the boarder of two states, maybe it's just me, but I really enjoyed seeing that kind of info.




"The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field.

When a man found it, he hid it again." Mt. 13:44

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Actually there were numerous things about Dan's stat site that simply made the game more interesting. I do miss just being able to bring up info on how different cachers are doing in Texas, or how the four or five caches I did in New Mexico put me in the standings with everyone else there (trust me, very, very low...LOL).


The point being, it made Geocaching more fun, especially on those days when I couldn't get out to hunt a cache. It was just neat. I am not in competition with anyone as is reflected in my own numbers of found caches...LOL, so I'm not in it for the competition, it was just super interesting. I could look up the list of the top cachers in Finland for instance, without having to join a group. It was just there. I might only look at that number once in my life but it was there.


I will not stop Geocaching for anything short of WWIII, and even then I might figure out a way to keep doing it, so if there are no stats, it's just another change I might not agree with, but also won't get my panties in a wad over either....


Keep up the good work Jeremy and gang, and thanks for taking the time to join in and let us see some of how your take on the issue is going.



"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

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Site statistics don't neccessarily have to be based on overtly competitive aspects. There have been many threads asking all kinds of questions of a statistical nature. (Not that the site should have a special section so you can see what percentage of cachers wear dresses and kilts while in the field...)

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Unlike some I have never payed much attention to the stats page because those numbers don't really mean much. For example, an all dayer 5/5 cache is worth no more than "geeze gotta undo the seatbelt for this one", 1/1 cache. There is no difference between a true cache find by an individual or one logged as a find as part of a group effort.


Those of us foolish enough to believe this is some sort of competition must realize that not everyone is playing on the same field. In some area's the caches are so thick that any simpleton with a GPS and too much spare time can rack up the numbers. Our status on the "leader board" is meaningless and certainly doesn't warrant any gloating or big headedness.


I truly envy those people who can take Geocaching for what I believe was it's creator's intent, simply fun recreation, and not get caught up in the stupid numbers game.


There are options for those who need a competition. Certain team's have from time to time put on fun events. For those wishing a no holds barred, all out race, there are teams like TEAM KFWB GPS that is presently running a invitation only, BIG CASH PRIZE multi-puzzle cache (not a Geocache). It's probably not too hard or too late to get in on this one.

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Originally posted by eroyd:

For example, an all dayer 5/5 cache is worth no more than "geeze gotta undo the seatbelt for this one", 1/1 cache. There is no difference between a true cache find by an individual or one logged as a find as part of a group effort.


And here I was thinking nothing profound would ever get posted from B.C. icon_wink.gificon_razz.gificon_razz.gif


That is the first post on these forums that has changed my perspective of this great sport/hobby/game/obsession. icon_cool.gif


Well said!



texasgeocaching_sm.gif Sacred cows make the best hamburger....Mark Twain.

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The stats of other teams/people doesn't really interest me, but I do like having a complete record of all my finds and failures. If the site stopped counting my finds I wouldn't mind as I duplicate all my log entries on my own web site anyway. Each find is numbered so I can see which caches I have found and the order I found them in. This also protects me from someone quitting in a huff and archiving their caches and deleting the log entries on those caches, etc.



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Originally posted by Admiral Whitetrousers:

Hi, maybe I was not clear I would like the function "most recent logs for Switzerland". We don't have so much activity as in USA so our Logs get swamped in the "recent logs" page.

Since Switzerland is "small" enough to fit in one Pocket Query, getting close to this wouldn't be too hard, but getting it perfectly correct might not be possible.


One of the features on the Watcher wishlist (maintained by brdad) is some sort of updated cache page / new logs feature. Basically, as I see it, you would have your last PQ open in Watcher, and when you merge your new PQ, it would highlight the log icons for any new logs (and there'd also be a filter for "only show caches with new logs"). You'd be able to quickly and easily see the new logs. Of course, if there were five or more new logs, you'd have to click over to the cache page to be sure to see all of them, but for all the rest, you'd have it right there.



(Incidentally, Geocaching.com powers that be, is it getting near time to discuss the rest of the PQ GPX updates? I'm still keeping up with the short list of needed/wanted changes requested by myself and the other PQ GPX application people I've talked to. Just let me know when to bring it back up.)


[[[ ClayJar Networks ]]]

Home of Watcher downloads, Official Geocaching Chat, and the Geocache Rating System

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Jeremy, I love this site, and the updating the site by adding new things is always a good idea. But please please please consider leaving the individual stats pages available.


It's really nice to be able to look back over my list (short as it is so far) as well as to look at the finds of friends.


Adding a group stat page or any other function would certainly add to the site, but hopefully you're not thinking of removing one thing just because you're adding another.



"A noble spirit embiggins the smallest man." - Jebediah Springfield


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There are many great and wonderful aspects to geocaching as cache find logs testify to. Statictics are just one of the things I enjoy. I like "soft" competition. I celebrate when I go ahead of cachers in the same find range as me and I celebrate when they go ahead of me. I enjoy seeing someone get their 100th find as well as those who get their 1000th. The numbers show how active others are.


Our increasing find count is the final reward for a busy weekend or road trip. The last thing I do when logging in multiple cache finds is go to our profile page and just be proud of what I see. At least I used to do that with the old profile page.


It is another form of communication. If I see a Forman post and it shows 546 finds and the last time I checked he had 529 I now know he was out having fun last weekend. I check Wienerdog’s profile page often to see what they are up to literally and figuratively. I know what 20 new finds means in terms of physical and mental activity. It pleases me greatly to check up on other cachers to see that they are active.


I really like to see the numbers. I am disappointed that the new profile page does not show the total find numbers though I think the breakdown is very nice. I would be VERY disappointed if the numbers disappeared. It would likely slow down my rate of geocaching if the numbers disappeared and, yes, I would definitly become less interested.


My two cents.

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Originally posted by eroyd:

an all dayer 5/5 cache is worth no more than "geeze gotta undo the seatbelt for this one", 1/1 cache.


I totally agree, eroyd (and thanks for including our Peace Arch project in your selected caches icon_smile.gif I do easier caches when I'm not up to something harder, but some of my favorites are the toughest. I recently spent a week on a multi here in Raleigh (Cranium Cache 01).


That said, I do like the stats. For me, it's mostly about the "cache anniversaries" - 25, 50, 75, 100, 200... Some folks pick special caches for those, and I'm pleased when one of my caches is chosen. There's also a friendly competition going with my nephew. He's killing our team these days, but that doesn't matter.


Our team is never going to be one of the big-number caching teams, but I'm still excited about approaching 100 (and I'm still interested in knowing when others hit 100, or 1000, or whatever.)


One shouldn't be prejudiced against low-number folks, but it is useful to know when a person who's hidden a cache (or taken your TB) has very few finds. Sometimes they need assistance with basic stuff.


Ignore the numbers if you prefer, but I hope they'll still be around - with totals, please - for those of us who like them.



"Thos' Degrees of Longitude and Latitude in Name, yet in Earthly reality are they Channels mark'd for the transport of some unseen Influence, one carefully assembl'd chain…"

– Thomas Pynchon, Mason & Dixon

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I geocache in hope of seeing an interesting place and share my experiences with others. I do like the stats and wouldn't quit if they where gone. But I do find more caches because I like to build up my stats. If there was no stats I would probably not bother with most lame caches and only go after the ones that sound interesting.

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I (Mike of WeBDLost3) finds stats useless and not interesting. Why? How could I be this way? How could a human being be so lame? Well....Someone else started this thing called Geocaching. Not me. Think of it like going to learn Martial Arts. There is always someone who has been doing it FAR longer than I. Some master who I will never catch up to unless they quit training. I am where I am. You are where you are. Why should I care if I am where you are? icon_wink.gif


I love seeing the number next to our names get bigger, but if yours if bigger than mine that's ok. But only in Geocaching. icon_wink.gif Heh. LOL


With out honor there is no art, only pretenders in a brawl.

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Considering the fact that my profile currently says I've found 4 caches, when in actuality I've found 98 to date (it just so happens that 94 of them were with other people), I can't say having the count available means all that much to me.


However, if I couldn't see which caches someone else has done, how would I stal... err *ahem* I mean, how would I find caches we both haven't done to do together?


It's just easier this way!



You can't be "FTF", but you could be next...

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Originally posted by canadazuuk:

Would you stop geocaching if there were no statistics on this site at all?


If there was no record of how many caches you had found, would you become disinterested?


How important is the statistical component of geocaching to you?


Would you miss being able to view other geocachers statistics, especially their quantity of caches found, if this ability were removed?


No - I would not stop, I would not miss the statistics, and for other's stats, I rarely look at those anyway.


I keep my own stats for my own purposes. I maintain a journal of my finds, the cache information and my experiences as I log them on the web page.


i was just asked why do I do this then? For the challenge. The fun of finding something... and last but not least, the beautiful scenery the hikes take me on that I otherwise would have missed.




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Considering the fact that my profile currently says I've found 4 caches, when in actuality I've found 98 to date (it just so happens that 94 of them were with other people), I can't say having the count available means all that much to me.

However, if I couldn't see which caches someone else has done, how would I stal... err *ahem* I mean, how would I find caches we both haven't done to do together?


I don't think there is anything wrong with logging caches that you found with someone else. Some people use *teams* for that, but many others all log separately. Anyway, if you log them yourself, then you have an easy to see list. But back logging all those finds could really become a pain! Anyway, there is no real rule on that, it is up to you.



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Well, stats here (AZ) show up on azgeocaching.com, and it invokes some friendly competitions that to me, make the experience of geocaching that much more enjoyable.


Also, I enjoy looking at my stats for the simple reason that I like to see where I've been and what I've done. For example, this page shows my cache finds progress since I started, as well as hides and misc. information. Call me crazy, but it's all part of the sport to me.



Team A.I.

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Originally posted by Kealia:

No way.


The stats for me are just keeping track of where I've been. If they weren't here I would keep an Excel sheet, _but I'm glad they are here so don't remove them!_


Just like others have said, it's the outdoor activity and the hiking that I really like not the count numbers.


I agree with Kealia, but more than that, looking at other's stats gives you a general idea of their geocaching "state of being" as well. Without the stats, how would you look up the caches that others had done or placed?



Ever consider what our dogs must think of us? I mean, here we come back from a grocery store with the most amazing haul -- chicken, pork, half a cow. They must think we're the greatest hunters on earth!



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