Wake Up and Smell the Catfood Folks

38.2k · August 19, 2003

There's been a good bit criticism of this website the past few days (some deserved and some not). They've responded by moving quickly to lock down any threads that are remotely critical, which was an over-reaction. I'm not saying that users (esp. paying ones) don't have legit beefs, but lets give this some perspective.

Many of the current complaints aren't new. Some have been re-hashed countless times. Perhaps this is why the admins have had little patience for some of the discussion (in the same way many long time forum users stomp on a newbie who asks "what GPS should I buy?").

Poking around some old threads, I found Jeremy's original pledge to keep this webiste free:

June 02, 2001

quote:
I, Jeremy Irish, CEO of Grounded, Inc. will never make this a pay to play web site for Geocaching. It is in the best interest of all players that the game remain free and the non-commercial sharing of these coordinates through the web site.

Jeremy has kept that pledge, much to his credit. When he made that pledge, this website had some 750 users. He had no idea what a juggernaut it would become.

I'm sure the guy isn't getting rich on this, which brings up another issue. He's never said he wouldn't sell this website (at least from what I've read).

I'm sure that, considering the exploding popularity of this sport, he's had offers. If y'all give him enough greif, I bet he'd consider taking several hundred thou for this website and moving on. I know I would. Then you'll have Yahoo,or some similar big player, rather than a geocacher running things. Wouldn't that be a peach? I can't wait for the Spy Cam pop-up ads.

I'm not saying that dissent is bad, but the piling on of late has gone over the top. Lay off a bit, lest maybe you'll get what you wished for.

"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry

[This message was edited by BrianSnat on August 19, 2003 at 07:03 PM.]

August 19, 2003

Looks like more filler for the server to me.

2.1k · August 19, 2003

Brian, didn't you post that in another thread? Trying to get brownie points, huh?

Brian

As long as you're going to think anyway, think big. -Donald Trump

8.4k · August 19, 2003

Finally, a thread that is worth posting on today.

I agree.

I have had a beef with GC.com in the past and I didn't bring it to the forums. It was taken care of mostly to my satisfaction.

I don't care for the censorship, but I wouldn't be here if any of this engaged my temper.

People,

The positive far outweighs the negative here. (at least for me) I will support this site as long as that remains true.

Remember, these forums are just the vocal minority of geocachers.

Sngans

Sacred cows make the best hamburger....Mark Twain.

2.3k · August 19, 2003

Is this the part where we all bow down at the alter Jeremy?? Free your mind and the rest will follow

24.7k · August 19, 2003

If he ever does sell it, it should be to a non profit national geocaching association of some type.

Anything else would probably actually launch one of the other sites onto the playing field.

As for the locked threads, my only regret is that I never got my 2 cents in. Or was it that I didn't have 2 cents on those topics?

3.9k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Doc-Dean:
Is this the part where we all bow down at the alter Jeremy?? http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung/teufel/devil-smiley-033.gif

---------------------------------------------------

Free your mind and the rest will follow

It never ceases to amaze me that people seem to think this is their website. The bottom line is...this is Jeremy's website. We are all guests here that can be asked to depart at any given time.

When your in another mans house...respect it! You would want respect if they were in yours.

El Diablo

Everything you do in life...will impact someone,for better or for worse.

http://www.geo-hikingstick.com

3k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Doc-Dean:
Is this the part where we all bow down at the alter Jeremy??

Whats with all of the negativity around here anyway? There are sure are a bunch of unappreciative people around this place that need to go somewhere else.

Rude I say...

__________________________

Caching without a clue....

38.2k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Is this the part where we all bow down at the alter Jeremy??

Come on, be realistic. Are there some issues? Sure. But without this site and the people behind it, I'm certain that geocaching would be about as popular as Letterboxing. Which BTW has been around for well over 100 years. Compare the two websites and you'll see why.

"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry

August 19, 2003

quote:
Wake Up and Smell the Catfood

in your bank account.....

Song from the 80's

Anyone? Anyone?

E

August 19, 2003

Originally posted by Doc-Dean:
Is this the part where we all bow down at the alter Jeremy??

I view forum for woodworking where they are able to have moderators for each topic. They check it every couple days and anything completely off topic is deleted. You don't like that? Too bad, go some place else. Do you think this site would dry up just because your not here to post your drivel? That we would actually get to read topics about Geocaching?

I say it's time for the large majority of people not participating in this type of posting, to tell you that we do not care for your petty bickering.

August 19, 2003

It's not out of the ordinary to start a new forum on your own and populate it with people who have fallen out of love with the original forum. We did it and its going great.

-------------------------------------------

http://www.hardcorebodybuildingontheweb.com

3k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by SkyeMaloney:
It's not out of the ordinary to start a new forum on your own and populate it with people who have fallen out of love with the original forum. We did it and its going great.

Yep, been there and done that too, it was a Yahoo group to boot but it worked for its purpose.

__________________________

Caching without a clue....

38.2k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Wake Up and smell the catfood in your bank account....Song from the 80's
Anyone? Anyone?

Which, BTW, is one of my all time favorite bands, hence the subject name.

"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry

8.4k · August 19, 2003

As long as you're going OT on your own thread Brian;

I LOVE They Might Be Giants!

Yes, they're weird enough for me...

Sngans

Sacred cows make the best hamburger....Mark Twain.

1.2k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Doc-Dean:
Is this the part where we all bow down at the alter Jeremy??

Wow, I guess I just THOUGHT I was cynical.....LOL.

Brian has a point. While we get a great deal of enjoyment out of sometimes going a little crazy on the forums, eventually the adult supervision has to step in and bring things back to ground...lol. I've enjoyed these forums even on the days where it seems no one in the entire world agrees with me, or even cares to read what I have typed... so this is no big deal in my estimate. If I had to bet, Jeremy is not losing any sleep over this and rightfully so.

Remember, the only difference between the Boy Scouts and the U. S. Army is........ the Boy Scouts have adult supervision.....heheheh.

Keep up the good work Jeremy and gang, let this piddly stuff just roll right off your backs...

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

2.3k · August 19, 2003

As I pull my foot out of my mouth....

quote:
Originally posted by Breaktrack:
Wow, I guess I just THOUGHT I was cynical.....LOL.

It was meant to be a cynical comment but not in the way it is being received. I actually have alot of respect for Jeremy and what he has built. I just thought Brian's opening post was a bit lofty (noting it would not be the first time). I am not flaming either one of them.

Believe me, the comment was written with a grin, not a frown on my face.

---------------------------------------------------

Free your mind and the rest will follow

38.2k · August 19, 2003

quote:
I LOVE They Might Be Giants!

Yes, they're weird enough for me...

I guess you're not so bad afterall

"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry

2.5k · August 19, 2003

I think it was a good idea to edit your original post from Magellan pop-up ads to spycam ads.

38.2k · August 19, 2003

quote:
I think it was a good idea to edit your original post from Magellan pop-up ads to spycam ads.

I also took out the double "the".

BTW, my posts are "lofty"? Hmmmm, never thought of my posts as "lofty". Most would call them "silly", "stupid" or "annoying", so comparatively, I guess I should take "lofty" as a compliment.

"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry

2.5k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:

BTW, my posts are "lofty"? Hmmmm, never thought of my posts as "lofty". Most would call them "silly", "stupid" or "annoying", so comparatively, I guess I should take "lofty" as a compliment.

I would just describe them as numerous. I guess when you have to post on each subject, then you will get many different descriptions.

August 19, 2003

OT: What was the TMBG song where the guy is sick, in a room, has a girlfriend, has to catch a plane..... cant remember the lyrics. Did that make a lick of sense?

-------------------------------------------

http://www.hardcorebodybuildingontheweb.com

38.2k · August 19, 2003

quote:
OT: What was the TMBG song where the guy is sick, in a room, has a girlfriend, has to catch a plane..... cant remember the lyrics. Did that make a lick of sense?

Can you hum a few bars?

"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry

3.9k · August 19, 2003

Ok DOC...I understand. However I still wonder how people think they can take over some one elses website and run it the way they want to.

Not meaning you, but if you have read enough of the fourms you know there are people out there like that.

I sometimes wonder if people have forgotten...or just don't care about the work and foresight that went into this. Not even counting the money that Jeremy originally put up to make all of this happen.

I'm quite sure that this site is now self supporting, and maybe turning a profit. What erks me the most is for people to come in and think that this site owes them something, or that they should have control over it.

Jeremy is way more tolerent than I am.

El Diablo

Everything you do in life...will impact someone,for better or for worse.

http://www.geo-hikingstick.com

August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by cachew nut:

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:

BTW, my posts are "lofty"? Hmmmm, never thought of my posts as "lofty". Most would call them "silly", "stupid" or "annoying", so comparatively, I guess I should take "lofty" as a compliment.

I would just describe them as numerous. I guess when you have to post on each subject, then you will get many different descriptions.

Perhaps hollow, or redundant?

38.2k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Perhaps hollow, or redundant?

Hollow, redundant, lofty, silly, numerous, but at least I'm not a sock puppet and I have the balls to post under my own account. Unlike someone else here.

"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry

1.2k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by El Diablo:
Ok DOC...I understand. However I still wonder how people think they can take over some one elses website and run it the way they want to.

I sometimes wonder if people have forgotten...or just don't care about the work and foresight that went into this. Not even counting the money that Jeremy originally put up to make all of this happen.

I'm quite sure that this site is now self supporting, and maybe turning a profit. What erks me the most is for people to come in and think that this site owes them something, or that they should have control over it.

Jeremy is way more tolerent than I am.

El Diablo

You know, you bring up a great point. There is a definite lack of a sense of the history of this sport, and this web site. We talk about individuals who refuse to sift through the old forum topics and see what's been discussed before, but there really is a value to doing just that. If you don't know what's gone on before, how can you profess to be in tune with what's going on now???? The vast majority of individuals engaged in Geocaching have no idea about the history of this site, and the majority of those who post in the forums probably don't either!

So what we have here, is a failure, to communicate (my apologies to Cool Hand Luke) LOL, LOL, LOL.

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

3.9k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:

quote:
Perhaps hollow, or redundant?

Perhaps a sock puppet without the balls to post under his own account?

_"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry_

I agree. I saw him last night switch from one name to another. I won't say where...but you should check out Clayjars chat room.

El Diablo

Everything you do in life...will impact someone,for better or for worse.

http://www.geo-hikingstick.com

August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by El Diablo:
The bottom line is...this is Jeremy's website. We are all guests here that can be asked to depart at any given time.

That's true, to a point. It stops being true when we send our money via the magic contraption known as PayPal for a monthly or annual subscription to a service offered by Groundspeak, Inc.

Once that happens, we're paying customers, not guests. As soon as money changes hands, there are expectations to be met and requirements to be fulfilled.

Would you complain to the phone company if their service was free but only worked half the time? Probably not. But if you were still paying the monthly bill and things stopped working - even for a few hours - you'd probably find it unacceptable. Why should GC.com be any different?

--

Pehmva!

Random quote:

sigimage.php

1.2k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Cruzin!:

quote:
Originally posted by El Diablo:
The bottom line is...this is Jeremy's website. We are all guests here that can be asked to depart at any given time.

That's true, to a point. It stops being true when we send our money via the magic contraption known as PayPal for a monthly or annual subscription to a service offered by Groundspeak, Inc.

Once that happens, we're paying customers, not guests. As soon as money changes hands, there are expectations to be met and requirements to be fulfilled.

Would you complain to the phone company if their service was free but only worked half the time? Probably not. But if you were still paying the monthly bill and things stopped working - even for a few hours - you'd probably find it unacceptable. Why should GC.com be any different?

--

Pehmva!

Random quote:

http://sthomas.net/sigimage.php

Ah, but one aspect we sometimes forget, you can use the site and Geocache to your hearts content without paying one thin dime to the site! I doubt the phone company is going to give you free basic service and offer you additional perks, like say, Caller ID, for a small fee per year?

So, if Jeremy quit allowing us to send him money, and just operated off the fund he gets for Groundspeak gear, and such, then he would have much more freedome to do with his own web site as he wishes???? Hmmm, if he required us to send money in order to use the site, then you'd have an excellent arguement, but the flip side is.... since he doesn't, you don't.

All this is just my opinion of course, if it really meant anything you'd have been advised where to tune for news and information pertaining to the current emergency....LOL.

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

August 19, 2003

what GPS should I buy?

1.2k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Bluehook:
what GPS should I buy?

ROFLMAO!!!!!

Timing is everything.......

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Breaktrack:
Ah, but one aspect we sometimes forget, you can use the site and Geocache to your hearts content without paying one thin dime to the site!

Well, except for members-only caches, MyPop functionality, PQs and custom titles, yes. All that is irrelevent, though. I stand by what I said - when money changes hands, everything is different.

quote:
So, if Jeremy quit allowing us to send him money, and just operated off the fund he gets for Groundspeak gear, and such, then he would have much more freedome to do with his own web site as he wishes????

Your wording makes it sound as if he's doing us a favor by selling us a service. He's not. He's selling a service, plain and simple. He's a businessman, like any other, and his goal is to make money. He may also have a genuine personal interest in seeing the activity grow, but when he hired the lawyers and filed the articles of incorporation, I can assure you that his goal was to collect dead presidents.

quote:
Hmmm, if he required us to send money in order to use the site, then you'd have an excellent arguement, but the flip side is.... since he doesn't, you don't.

I heartily disagree. Try getting the coords for a members-only cache or setting up a pocket query without forking over the dough.

I think we're in agreement that non-paying users of the site aren't entitled to anything that Groundspeak doesn't want to give them. They have no legitimate right to complain when the site's inaccessable or something on it is broken.

It seems that we're in disagreement where paying users are concerned. Groundspeak - a corporation, complete with pending trademarks - offers a service in exchange for money. They have a legal obligation to provide that service to the customers that take them up on their offer. It's that simple.

--

Pehmva!

Random quote:

sigimage.php

1.2k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Cruzin!:
Well, except for members-only caches, MyPop functionality, PQs and custom titles, yes. All that is irrelevent, though. I stand by what I said - when money changes hands, everything is different.

Well, yes, good point, but none of those are required to Geocache, wouldn't you agree?

quote:
Your wording makes it sound as if he's doing us a favor by selling us a service. He's not. He's selling a service, plain and simple. He's a businessman, like any other, and his goal is to make money. He may also have a genuine personal interest in seeing the activity grow, but when he hired the lawyers and filed the articles of incorporation, I can assure you that his goal was to collect dead presidents.

Agreed, he may very well be in it to make a dime, I have no grudge against that. However, I think my phone company analogy is apt. He does provide the basics needed to Geocache for nothing. If you wish to enhance your experience you have the opportunity to do so, there is no requirement to do so.

quote:
I heartily disagree. Try getting the coords for a members-only cache or setting up a pocket query without forking over the dough.

True as well, you cannot get the additional features without the payment, no doubt. But I CAN cache without the additional features so it doesn't rise to the level of (and I hear it ALL the time...lol) I pay your salary, etc. If it was required that I pay the yearly fee to do ANY Geocaching, I'd agree with you whole heartedly, it would be more encumbent on Jeremy and company to be more customer aware than they appear to have been of late, but I'm not sure in this case if that's the real issue.

quote:
I think we're in agreement that non-paying users of the site aren't entitled to anything that Groundspeak doesn't want to give them. They have no legitimate right to complain when the site's inaccessable or something on it is broken.

Yes, agreed.

quote:
It seems that we're in disagreement where paying users are concerned. Groundspeak - a corporation, complete with pending trademarks - offers a service in exchange for money. They have a legal obligation to provide that service to the customers that take them up on their offer. It's that simple.

I'm sure its a surprise, but I agree, to the extent that they provide the services you are actually paying for in that contract, i.e. the pocket queries, access to members only caches, etc... the other services he has absolutely no obligation to provide whatsoever... so where does that leave us? LOL.

This has been an excellent discussion of the issue nonetheless, I've enjoyed it a great deal. You obviously put some thought into your post rather than a lot of emotion. Well done!

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

August 19, 2003

Yes, you can look up most cache coords and go find them without paying a fee. I think that's great, and I'm glad Jeremy decided on that policy long ago. I may be a bit cynical, but I think it's possible that he realized that if he didn't offer the coords for free, someone else would, making his business a less attractive online destination than his competitor's.

My original post in this thread was regarding the status of, well, us - the gc.com users. El Diablo had stated that we were all Jeremy's guests and I disagreed. Those of us that pay each month are not guests, we're customers, and as such, we're owed something in exchange for our hard-earned three bucks.

I never suggested that participating in the activity of geocaching required payment. If it did, I think we'd see a lot more caches being listed on Navi^H^H^H^H that other site... I just wanted to be sure that people are making the distinction between paying and non-paying users.

Yes, it's been a good exchange. I have to go prepare an eBay auction now, though. Anyone wanna buy a cisco router?

--

Pehmva!

Random quote:

sigimage.php

38.2k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Your wording makes it sound as if he's doing us a favor by selling us a service. He's not. He's selling a service, plain and simple. He's a businessman, like any other, and his goal is to make money. He may also have a genuine personal interest in seeing the activity grow, but when he hired the lawyers and filed the articles of incorporation, I can assure you that his goal was to collect dead presidents.

No, it was to provide a service. When the demand on the servers, his time and the likeyhood of liability, etc... increased to the point where it went beyond a hobby, he started asking for a few bucks. He eventually turned this into a business and more power to him for doing so. I'm sure he's not eating Cheerios for dinner, but he's no Bill Gates either. Sheesh, most of this has to be out of love of the sport. Would you put up with all the BS otherwise?

"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry

1.2k · August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Cruzin!:

Yes, it's been a good exchange. I have to go prepare an eBay auction now, though. Anyone wanna buy a cisco router?

Hehehe, oh yeah, that's what I need around the house, another cisco router....lol.

And hey, I eat Cheerios for dinner now and then, what's it to ya????? LOL.

(Disclaimer: I am also NOT Bill Gates...LOL)

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

August 19, 2003

The folks that moderate these boards have shown a tremendous amount of tolerance for off-topic posts and even flaming and abuse.

I moderate several travel-related boards where I have FAR LESS tolerance for the crap like that which goes on here. If I was the moderator here, I'd be cutting a swath a mile wide with locked topics and deleted posts. I've banned people for less.

As far as censorship and free speech goes, get out your copy of the constitution, READ IT. "Congress shall make no law..." read it again, geocaching.com isn't a government board, it's privately owned, you have no free speech rights here. And for censorship, too bad. geocaching.com has the right to lock and delete your posts as they feel fit to advance their business. If you don't like it, you are free to leave. Heck, why don't you start your own board and promise to allow anything to be posted. I've seen s few of those and It's fun to watch and wager when they finally put a set of rules in to curb the nonsense.

I "censor" posts all of the time especally the one who promote other competing web sites or travel agents or posts that take issue with the way that I run my boards. The anonymity that gives posters the boldness to say things that they wouldn't say to my face also gives me the boldness to wipe them off of my site. On my board, it my board, and I don't have to take crap from anyone. While I may lose posters from time to time, the ones who behave and stay appreciate me keeping things travel-related and clean.

I vote for more deleted posts, more locking and more geocaching-related posts.

Mickey

Max Entropy

More than just a name, a lifestyle.

August 19, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by BrianSnat:

quote:
Your wording makes it sound as if he's doing us a favor by selling us a service. He's not. He's selling a service, plain and simple. He's a businessman, like any other, and his goal is to make money. He may also have a genuine personal interest in seeing the activity grow, but when he hired the lawyers and filed the articles of incorporation, I can assure you that his goal was to collect dead presidents.

No, it was to provide a service. When the demand on the servers, his time and the likeyhood of liability, etc... increased to the point where it went beyond a hobby, he started asking for a few bucks. He eventually turned this into a business and more power to him for doing so. I'm sure he's not eating Cheerios for dinner, but he's no Bill Gates either. Sheesh, most of this has to be out of love of the sport. Would you put up with all the BS otherwise?

Apparently, I haven't been clear enough, so let me yell it loud and proud: I AM NOT ANTI-JEREMY OR Groundspeak! I don't doubt for a moment that this site grew out of a love of the sport/hobby/activity/game of geocaching. I never suggested that they're getting rich off us - I doubt he's doing much more than breaking even, especially with having his own Inet connection now instead of co-locating.

My point - as plain and simple as it can possibly be - is that the paying members should be receiving what they pay for. No more, no less. I'm not bringing free speech issues, censorship, locking threads or anything else into this. I'm saying that the service offered should be reliable and predictable and that we should get the little "perks" we were promised. A little proactive (rather than reactive) customer service is always nice, too.

I don't mind paying for my membership, for two reasons. One, because I believe in what Jeremy's doing, even if I don't always agree with his methods or opinions. Two, because I want a reliable and predictable service and the little "perks" that are promised. It'd also be nice if I could get a reply from TPTB when I report a problem with the site in the gc.com forum - they obviously read it, but don't seem to bother replying unless they've already got a solution in the can. Even an "I'll look into it" or "That's too low a priority right now" would be appreciated. At least I'd know that as a customer, I'm more than a guaranteed $3 per month to them and that they care whether or not something's broken on their site.

--

Pehmva!

Random quote:

sigimage.php

2.3k · August 20, 2003

Is this the part wher I put my foot in my mouth again???

Nope, gonna keep my trap shut!

---------------------------------------------------

Free your mind and the rest will follow

August 20, 2003

If geocaching was a resturant, a lot of you would have spit in your food @ this point. Just because you paid someone money, doesn't mean you can treat them like a turd. We get a lot more out of this website, than what we pay for. I'm not saying shut up and play nice ,just don't use paying money as an excuse to be a di%k.

1.6k · August 20, 2003

There are other options out there, like n a v i c a c h e

I am failing again to grasp the major point behind this whole tirade (or whatever it is). There are so many minor issues refered to, but I don't see anything gleaming enough to warrant such a high pitch of keystroke pollution.

3.9k · August 20, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Cruzin!:

El Diablo had stated that we were all Jeremy's guests and I disagreed. Those of us that pay each month are not guests, we're customers, and as such, we're owed something in exchange for our hard-earned three bucks.

I just wanted to be sure that people are making the distinction between paying and non-paying users.

Even if that argument had merit, and I don't believe that it does. There is a distinction between caching site and the fourms.

The fourms are open to everyone, paying or not. I don't ever recall Jeremy offering any perks in the fourms if you became a supporting member. Therfore my original statement is still correct.

He that giveth this avenue to express our opinions...can certainly taketh away that avenue.

El Diablo

Everything you do in life...will impact someone,for better or for worse.

http://www.geo-hikingstick.com

3k · August 20, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by mogolloyd:
If geocaching was a resturant, a lot of you would have spit in your food @ this point.

No way. That's what the surly wait staff is for.

quote:
Just because you paid someone money, doesn't mean you can treat them like a turd. We get a lot more out of this website, than what we pay for.

So you're saying that those users who "treat them like a turd" and have never purchased a membership or mdse from the Groundspeak store are getting the best value?

August 20, 2003

quote:
So you're saying that those users who "treat them like a turd" and have never purchased a membership or mdse from the Groundspeak store are getting the best value?

exactly!

3.1k · August 20, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by SkyeMaloney:
OT: What was the TMBG song where the guy is sick, in a room, has a girlfriend, has to catch a plane..... cant remember the lyrics. Did that make a lick of sense?

"Destination Moon", perhaps? "By rocket to the moon, by airplane to the rocket, by taxi to the airport, by front door to the taxi". I don't think there's a girlfriend though.

Or maybe that's your interpretation of "Particle Man"? It's as good as any other.

Well the mountain was so beautiful that this guy built a mall and a pizza shack

Yeah he built an ugly city because he wanted the mountain to love him back -- Dar Williams

August 20, 2003

Ah HAH! That darn well may be it! I'll have to find that on Kazzaa....... I mean..... find that old cassette I threw away 10 years ago..... yeah...

Thanks!

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http://www.hardcorebodybuildingontheweb.com

38.2k · August 20, 2003

quote:
Or maybe that's your interpretation of "Particle Man"?

What exactly was Triangle Man's beef with Particle Man? I know there was some animosity there, but what caused it?

"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day" - Dave Barry

2.3k · August 20, 2003

Dinoprophet - What's with the blacked out Avatar? Are you still celebrating the blackout of 2003?

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Free your mind and the rest will follow

August 20, 2003

I agree with Brian, give Jeremy a break and be bloody grateful or a change. I think appreciating this website a little more wouldn't hurt.

Wake Up and Smell the Catfood Folks

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