Glass Containers

July 5, 2003

They seem to work well in many hostile environments, and I'm trying them in my current caches, any input from other cachers?

Addendum; Jam jars, pickle jars, Marmite with screw down lids, you get the picture...

July 5, 2003

I have 1 glass container on the go (i think!?! possibly another I have forgotten but its hard to remember what over 50 caches are hidden in?) It is still in good condition after a year, however I wouldnt place a cache in a glass container again simply because If it broke it really would cause pollution. If its reinforced eg selotape coated maybe that would be better, just my 2 cents worth

Its just a hunt for a lunch box, why be so serious!?!

Dan Wilson - www.Buckscaching.co.uk - Stash Notes, forums & Much more...

1.4k · July 6, 2003

Sounds risky to me. If it gets dropped and breaks...glass....kids...blood. Nah, thats not a good idea.

Bob....

http://www.bobh.co.uk

1k · July 6, 2003

Hi Guys,

If I was asked to approve a cache that was mentioned as being in a glass container I would hold back approval until it was changed for safety reasons that some of you have pointed out.

Cheers,

Eckington

July 6, 2003

Out of interest. When you are logged in and hold the cursor over the link to "My Cache Page" the picture changes to a kid holding a large glass screw top jar! (Take your pick which graemlin applies)

Just a coincidence that I noticed it today. I have no great feelings either way. Might be safe if the area it was stored in was grassy or earthy, but avoided when placed near tarmac or other hard surfaces.

Finding your caches - Losing my marbles.

July 6, 2003

Kennamatic - I'd noticed that and it always annoyed me! I see loads of broken glass when I'm out walking and caching, and as I have a small son and an even smaller dog, its always a worry. I try to take a carrier bag with me to collect broken glass as its such an eco hazard in the summer too.

I agree with Eckington - I'd never place a cache in a glass container and there should be some constraints on it. (Just my Not Very HO)

Sam

~ Love many, trust few, learn to paddle your own Canoe ~

~ We can't run away for ever ... but theres nothing wrong with getting a good head start ~

1.8k · July 6, 2003

The son of a friend of mine once dropped a large jar of Marmite in their kitchen - it was extremely difficult to keep four dogs from lapping up the resultant mess, glass and all!

Seriously though, the wicked curved glass splinters that turned up in odd corners for weeks afterwards make me think that a Marmite jar might not be a good cache container.

Bill

-------------------------------

"Ah, take the Cache and let the Credit go..."

The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam, trans. Edward Fitzgerald

July 6, 2003

If it's been mentioned, then I missed it - glass can start fires, too. I know the risk is low when it's hidden, and covered in leaves, but the risk is there.

July 6, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Bill D (wwh):
The son of a friend of mine once dropped a large jar of Marmite in their kitchen - it was extremely difficult to keep four dogs from lapping up the resultant mess, glass and all!

..I can't decide which is worse. The idea of broken glass in the mouth, or the idea of Marmite in the mouth....

No trees were harmed during the production of this posting, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced....

July 7, 2003

Marmite it has to be Marmite.

L8 Ed is NOT a Member or Supporter of Geocaching Association of Great Britain.

1.8k · July 7, 2003

quote:
MCL wrote:

..I can't decide which is worse. The idea of broken glass in the mouth, or the idea of Marmite in the mouth....

quote:
and L8 Ed wrote:
Marmite it has to be Marmite.

Marmite seems to be a love it or hate it thing - a post in another forum which mentioned Marmite started an extremely long thread of posts by yeast extract extremists.

(Me? I love it. )

Bill

-------------------------------

"Ah, take the Cache and let the Credit go..."

The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam, trans. Edward Fitzgerald

July 7, 2003

My Mate: Marmite!

It rocks! Or, maybe to some (philistines of course), tastes like rocks...

"Woof" quoth he. Oh, and "Grrr" also.

July 7, 2003

I have just placed a cache in a strong glass container that has been put on hold because it's glass, I have mailed the holder but not yet recieved a reply. He said it was dangerous. I do not believe it could pose any threat to environment or mankind unless diliberatly smashed.

July 7, 2003

Just adding another note to a now marmite tainted thread. Eckington is refering to my cache. I also mentioned the picture of the boy on the geo site. The place I hid it is in heavy moss and it is as I mentioned very thick glass you'd have to really try to break. I have no problem with changing the container next time I go there but to refuse the cache on these grounds, especially after the effort it took to get there, seems unfair.

1.4k · July 7, 2003

To be blunt, unfair or not there is a risk. And refusal to accept the cache would seem the sensible thing to do.

What if an animal or person did get hurt in some way????? Are you going to put your hand up and say 'all my fault' ??

And I expect Eckington may have similar thoughts.

It may have took effort to place the cache, but please consider that you are responsible for the maintainance of the cache. So please nip back and change for a more appropriate container.

cheers

Bob....

http://www.bobh.co.uk

July 7, 2003

As I have said, I will change the container, however it's not a case of nipping to do so. Short of someone dropping a very large rock on it or throwing it at the wall there is no way it's gonna break. I also placed a couple of bugs in it. All I ask is for it to be approved while I sort out finding an alternative container. I wonder how many other glass cahes are out there where the cahce hider didn't mention the material the cache was made of.

1.4k · July 7, 2003

I am sure you are correct in wondering how many other glass containers are out there. And with hindsight I hope such caches will be changed to safer containers??

It just ain't worth the risk mate. Honest.

Bob....

http://www.bobh.co.uk

1k · July 7, 2003

Hi Guys,

I will stand by the earlier decision.

Toughened or not I can not like glass containers.

Eckington

1.4k · July 8, 2003

I think that over our time we have found 4 or so Glass containers (one this weekend even).

The thing that has struck me (apart from the obvious breakage problems) is that they do not often seem to be waterproof. Experience shows that coffee jars are not waterproof in winter conditions.

If you need something that size and shape - why not use a tupperware beaker with lid, it won't break when dropped and should be waterproof.

Chris

If only life had an undo button....

London & UK Geocaching Resources: http://www.sheps.clara.net

July 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by golddust1000:
To be blunt, unfair or not there is a risk.

What if an animal or person did get hurt in some way????? Are you going to put your hand up and say 'all my fault' ??

What if glass starts a fire? - What if an unsupervised kiddie were to choke on the lid of a 35mm film canister?? What if a kiddie chokes on a pen top while daddy is filling in the log??

what if?? what if??? what if????

quote:
Originally posted by Eckington:

I will stand by the earlier decision.

Toughened or not I can not like glass containers.

Eckington

Yipee, another ah hoc. UK only rule to add to the collection. Based as usual on "what if's".

I'm fully supportive of the idea of having UK approvers to approve UK caches, the idea of which was introduced to allow some of the "quirky" things that we do over here that the Americans maybe didn't fully understand. Glass containers are not a "UK only" issue. But now we have one type of container, acceptable in the rest of the world, banned in the UK on the say so of one approver.

As I understand it the cache approvers worldwide have their own discussion forum. If Eckington believes that glass containers are an issue then he should float the idea of a global change in GC.COM "guidelines" on that forum and see if he has the support of the other approvers worldwide for an outright ban.

To start to have UK caches refused just because a UK approver "doesn't like" glass containers is in my opinion overstepping the mark and not the way to go.

Caches should be approved or refused on the basis of current guidelines. Guidelines which currently take no issue with glass containers.

Alex.

------------------------------------------------

Knights of the Green Shield stamp and shout.....

July 8, 2003

I don't approve of glass containers, nor do I approve of making up the rules. Glass containers are allowed so until the guidelines are changed allow them. An approver should stick to the guidelines when approving caches not do it as they see fit.

L8 Ed is NOT a Member or Supporter of Geocaching Association of Great Britain.

July 8, 2003

Can we play devil's advocate here and ask whether this just relates to the cache container itself or any item within the cache ?

We could also add that there is more damage from the bottles that the milkmen leave on our doorsteps than a remote hidden cache. (Fire Hazard excepted). I would love to see a cache hidden in a ming vase (took cache, left logbook ! ). Shouldn't we just leave it to common sense ?

Incidentally, apologies if this message comes out rubbish but it's our first. 6 caches down and hooked !

Andy and Dawn

(Where did all this wine come from ?)

[This message was edited by Cuthbert & Mrs Cuthbert on July 08, 2003 at 02:14 AM.]

July 8, 2003

I have just bought a couple of these 'micro-rocks' from GUK, do I have to drill them out to lighten them? or can I just add in the cache description not to drop on your toes as they are heavy?

I can not see the harm in a suitable glass container in a suitable place, a rock wall would seem inappropriate whereas a sand dune could be ideal...

Bill

Life is just an illusion, albeit a very elaborate one.

1k · July 8, 2003

Hi Guys,

Firstly thanks to makerofthingsup for agreeing to change the container he has placed tha cache in.

Secondly may I add my own two pennorth to the "ad hoc" decision debate.

If you read the gc.com guidelines, and their FAQ section there is very little reference to what is and is not allowed as a cache container.

This is the only reference I could find, it comes from the FAQ's

"Larger caches may consist of a waterproof plastic bucket placed tastefully within the local terrain. "

To use Alex's argument:

"What if glass starts a fire? - What if an unsupervised kiddie were to choke on the lid of a 35mm film canister?? What if a kiddie chokes on a pen top while daddy is filling in the log??

what if?? what if??? what if????

"

What if I were told a cache was placed in an old toxic waste container; this micro cache is in the barrel of on old hypodermic syringe;

Absolutely ridiculous I know, but.......

I do not believe I engendered a one off, ad hoc, UK only rule that is against gc.com guidelines as there are no guidelines on containers.

I do think that I made a reasonable decision, based on a thought process that considered the various safety factors involved.

I still stand by my decision.

Eckington

July 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Eckington:
Firstly thanks to makerofthingsup for agreeing to change the container he has placed the cache in.

You didn't really give him much of a choice though did you?

quote:
Originally posted by Eckington:
I do think that I made a reasonable decision, based on a thought process that considered the various safety factors involved.

Eckington

What you did was to make a unilaterally retrospective decision on what is acceptable as a cache container and what isn't.

When makerofthingsup placed his cache, he did so in the belief that there were no guidelines or rules that prevented him from using a toughened glass bottle. At the time that he placed his cache he was right in that assumption.

Someone moved the goalposts on him.

Rules/guidelines need to be well thought out and discussed. Not made up on the spur of the moment.

Alex.

------------------------------------------------

Knights of the Green Shield stamp and shout.....

July 8, 2003

This does not sound like a good idea.

To have one person decide on a new rule is just not on.

Nope bad move Eckington.

from the geocaching.com website guide to creating a cachehttp://www.geocaching.com/articles/making.asp

quote:
Step 2 - Preparing Your Cache

First, you need a container. Anything water resistant, snow resistant, etc (depending on your climate), will do, but geocachers have had good success with plastic buckets, tupperware (or rubbermaid) containers, ammo boxes, or unused sewer pipes (really!).

I stress the word "anything"

I think an approver who is not prepared to admit he has made a mistake is an unwelcome development.

1k · July 8, 2003

quote:
I think an approver who is not prepared to admit he has made a mistake is an unwelcome development.

......thing is I honestly do not believe I have made a mistake. It would be so easy to throw my hands upo and say, "Yup, sorry, I was wrong." But if I did that I would compromise my own belief.

1.4k · July 8, 2003

So people do not like having thier cache refused. If Eckington said he did'nt like green glass or red glass then that would definatly been wrong. We know it happens, glass gets broken, people get hurt.

I am really happy that 'makerofthingsup' has changed the container. This shows an adult attitude that we all, at times, would do well to imitate.

There are issues with contents of caches so it follows that containers may heve thier own issues.

Many sports have rules that are differ slightly from country to country or region to region.

Eckington, has in my opinion made the correct decision.

I still have the 3 inch scar from playing near glass when I was a child. No need to tell me twice.

Bob....

http://www.bobh.co.uk

1.4k · July 8, 2003

.......and as an extra thought. Caches get trashed, stuff gets thrown about. And just for extra effect the 'trasher' may smash the glass.

Lets just not give trashers the option.

Simple

Bob....

http://www.bobh.co.uk

July 8, 2003

Even the new GAGB/HCC guidelines don't preclude the use of glass containers.

Just to make it clear. I wouldn't use glass myself, my point is that is was not right to refuse to approve makerofthingsup's cache. At the time it was placed it conformed to ALL PREVIOUSLY KNOWN and published guidelines.

If Eckington doesn't like glass containers, then fine. Let's discuss it. Make a rule/guideline by all means, but let people know about it before they do a 2 hour climb to place a ****/terrain cache that then gets refused for a reason that he had no way of knowing about in advance.

Alex.

------------------------------------------------

Knights of the Green Shield stamp and shout.....

5.9k · July 8, 2003

Funny, I’ve had and currently have glass containers in my home since I was a kid. Wish all you motherly types were around to protect me from the big bad dangerous world. But because you weren’t, I died.

I cannot understand these blanket assumptions. If a glass container is hidden in a rocky area, well that might not be such a great idea. In the woods where it might fall in the leaves on the forest floor, what’s the problem?

Glass container: Might break and cut someone.

Plastic food storage container: Might cause a rodent to chew through, eat, fall asleep and attack when the next person opens it.

Ammo can: Testicles could get snagged in the lid during closure.

All: Could provide cool shelter for dangerous insects, reptiles, or rodents.

Maybe we should all just stay home in a nice quiet padded room.

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

July 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Eckington:
What if I were told a cache was placed in an old toxic waste container; this micro cache is in the barrel of on old hypodermic syringe;

But the difference is that neither toxic waste containers nor hypodermic syringes are normally available household items in use in homes around the country every day.

Glass containers are ubiquitous. Everybody uses them almost every day of their lives.

I honestly belive you made a wrong call on this one eckington, sorry.

I am of the view that people should take responsibility of their own actions and in the case of parents, they should take responsibility for their own children. If people are unable (or unwilling) to properly supervise their children where there are potential hazards I don't think the community in general should be forced to do the job for them.

To keep quoting this or that shouldn't be allowed because there is a remote possibility that an unsupervised child MIGHT do something stupid gets my goat.

Let's take responsibility guys & gals and let's have a little more common sense so we can get back to enjoying our eccentric hobby

July 8, 2003

Oh what a hornet's nest, I have to agree with Slythrin in that I wasn't given much choice in the matter, also I was as has been pointed out only following stated guidelines. The cache is as I have said in heavy moss and heather and the chances of accidental breakage are frankly none. If some trasher fancied an hour and a half treck just to break a glass container then it's most likely saved someone's bus shelter or phone box. I honestly have to say that I think I have been treated unfairly in this case.

3.8k · July 8, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Eckington:
......thing is I honestly do not believe I have made a mistake. It would be so easy to throw my hands upo and say, "Yup, sorry, I was wrong." But if I did that I would compromise my own belief.

Fair play to ya, mate.

You can obviously take the heat... as far as I'm concerned, you can stay in the kitchen

John

Age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability

July 8, 2003

My initial reaction was "hmm. glass sounds bad".

I still stand by that. OK, so it's supposed to be toughened glass? And the titanic was supposed to be unsinkable...

Besides that, heather does get extremely dry during the summer months. Just look at some places in the New Forest, for example, that have been damaged by fire. Can be caused by someone carelessly chucking a beer-bottle in the undergrowth after a picnic, not just by a carefully hidden glass cache.

That fire could cause lots of damage to species of ground-nesting birds, amongst other fauna in the vicinity.

It's not just about what you want to hide in the undergrowth. It's also about leaving the place in a fair state for anyone else to visit.

No, I really do think glass is deffo not a sound idea. I'm suprised it's not mentioned in the guidelines that glass containers are not that great.

All that said, good on you for swopping the containers over. Best to move on and continue to enjoy caching. I'm sure no-one is intending to add a sour taste to the hobby for you.

Happy caching!

"Woof" quoth he. Oh, and "Grrr" also.

July 8, 2003

Having started this I'd better do some explaining. I was washing out a small jar (Jalapeno chillies if you must know) as I often use them for storing stuff in my workshop. I noticed that it was pretty thick and sturdy looking, it reminded me of a glass jar in another cache I'd found recently, which was secreted deep inside a pile of rocks and was clearly tough enough to withstand the rigours of the location, half way up a Welsh hillside, (a Schwarz spice jar if you must know).

When I asked for advice on this topic I was asking in the manner of

"Which containers apart from the ones I have already identified as easily tough enough to with stand the physical environment without breaking, and in a location where the refractive nature of the glass will not be a factor as it is semi-aquatic: and which I had already shown to the on-site park rangers: could you suggest.

I was not asking

"I can't see anything hazardous in using thin walled fragile glass containers in all and any cache locations without having carefully assessed the area and probable and possible hazards and consulted with the local Ranger service; could you point out any errors I might have made in this thought process.

I might have expected replies such as " Fish paste jars, Cosmetic/Skin cream jars " and many other well engineered and robust containers.

So now you know.

July 8, 2003

You didn't quite do into that much detail. Besides, you asked for input and got it in spades!

"Woof" quoth he. Oh, and "Grrr" also.

July 8, 2003

You are all missing the point.

The only mistake that makerofthingsup made was to tell everyone what the container was made of.

Otherwise, no-one would have said a dickie bird.

There is a cache near me which is not mine, which is actually a glass Kilner Jar, but since the cache page says it was something else, its been approved, and found by quite a few people. None of whome have made any complaint whatsoever.

It is more dangerous to drive to a cache in your car than it is to break a glass cache container. I don't see anyone about to ban cars do I? What if on the way you were to run over a small child? Or hit another vehicle head-on after it crossed the central reservation of the motorway? Of course these things never happen in real life do they?

Actually thousands of people die every year on the roads and no-one gives two figs about it. We still drive to our cache locations. Hypocrits, all of us.

What we all need is a sense of proportion.

24.7k · July 8, 2003

And so where in the geocaching guidliens does it say "Thou Shalt Not Use a Glass Container"?

It doens't. There are enough guidlines to keep us on our toes. Let it go and approve the cache.

And should it break don't forget. CITO will pretty much take care of the issue.

July 8, 2003

There are important points being missed here.

With all due respect to Eckington but Should one person have the power to decide the direction that guidelines in the UK should take.

suppose that somehow a member of the Modants became approver in the uk and decided that they would ban all caches at any site of historic interest.

Has the site owner given Eckington the power to decide which guidelines he will arbitarily impose on us.

July 9, 2003

I think that if Eckington doesn't feel comfortable in approving this cache, it's fine. We shouldn't ask him to do anything he doesn't feel he can.

If another cache approver is ok with it, let them approve it.

No change in rules needed, unless no-one feels ok approving it.

Having said that, the cache placer said that they could change the container next time they went. Maybe someone else could go, change container and claim it as a first find for their efforts. It could then be approved

Sarah

--

July 9, 2003

My 2p woth:

Eckington made a decision based on what his concience told him was right. He pointed out that he feels unable to approve any cache in a glass container. Fair enough. I dare say that in all good concience, he could not just pass it to another approver, and not get a nagging from his concience.

However,

If the rules do not say that glass containers cannot be used, then according to the rules, they can. I don't advocate that we should have a rule for absolutely everything, god knows there's enough rules governing all aspects of our lives as it is.

I think Eckington just went about it the wrong way. Arbitrarily inflicting a personal preference on everyone else is not the job of a moderator, however sensible it might be. People simply take that sort of thing badly, as I'm sure Eckington is now aware.

If the moderators/approvers are going to dis-allow glass containers, then maybe they should make this public knowledge, and I guess the best way to do that is to have it as a rule. Shame, but there you go!

On the other hand, why use glass containers anyway? Do they make better containers than other types? Plastic containers come in just about every concievable size and shape, so why not use them?

Sorry, that was more than 2p.

Graeme (Rel)

Things to do today: Exhale, inhale, exhale. Ahhhh.

3.8k · July 9, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Ali & Rel:
I think Eckington just went about it the wrong way. Arbitrarily inflicting a personal preference on everyone else is not the job of a moderator, however sensible it might be. People simply take that sort of thing badly, as I'm sure Eckington is now aware.

If the moderators/approvers are going to dis-allow glass containers, then maybe they should make this public knowledge, and I guess the best way to do that is to have it as a rule. Shame, but there you go!

I think that maybe a little clarification is in order here, just for the benefit of our newer cachers.

To the best of my knowledge ‘moderators’ are guardians of the forum whereas ‘approvers’ do just that... approve, or reject, any newly submitted cache. They are two distinct and separate ‘jobs’. There have been instances where a moderator has also been an approver but in this instance, I believe Eckington is an approver NOT a moderator.

And just to add my own two euro-cents worth to the current discussion, I don’t think glass containers are a good idea either. So in this instance he has my support.

John

Age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability

July 9, 2003

Pharisee

Thanks for the clarification.

The principle remains though, the approvers should use the rules in force at the time. Shouldn't they?

FWIW, we would not use glass containers either.

Ali & Rel

Things to do today: Exhale, inhale, exhale. Ahhhh.

July 9, 2003

While it's true that the guidelines do not stipulate that the container cannot be glass, I've always been one to err on the side of sensibility. A little common sense goes a long way here. If you really think that getting your privates caught in an ammo can lid (for example) is as big a risk as a glass jar getting broken, I'd respectfully disagree. Hey, Criminal! $.02.

July 9, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Ali & Rel:
On the other hand, why use glass containers anyway? Do they make better containers than other types? Plastic containers come in just about every concievable size and shape, so why not use them?

Good quality (ie don't let in water, don't crack from old age...) plastic containers are quite hard to find. Doesn't matter if they are small or big.

I try and use ammo boxes where I can, for the simple reason that I *know* they will stay dry.

Having said that, 2 of my caches are in small plastic containers: they needed to be small because of where they are, and I don't have a suitably small ammo box (mind you, I think O'Mally has some on order, looking forward to seeing them!)... even then, one of those plastic containers is known to leak!

Back to glass: yes, your "typical" "single-use" glass jar is NOT up to the job as a acache container... it is FAR too dangerous. But there *are* some that *are* ok... yes, those small fishpaste / jam sample are actually very stong.

And yes, I *have* hurt myself on plastic, typically on a sharp edge or if the container is broken... (sometimes you can break a nail just opening the dadgum things!)...

And I can think of plenty of ways to hurt youself on an ammo box (most likely when trying to open on that's a bit stuck!!!)

But, if we're gonna get silly, just popping off a platic box's lid could easily make it fly off into someones eye!

At the end of the day, you just have to apply good old common sense!

paul

5.9k · July 9, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Gaddiel & OrangeDanish:
SNIP A little common sense goes a long way here. If you really think that getting your privates caught in an ammo can lid (for example) is as big a risk as a glass jar getting broken, I'd respectfully disagree. Hey, Criminal! $.02.

…and I respectfully disagree with your respectful disagreement!

My point was hyperbole; nobody really wears their shorts that loose. There are hazards in everything we do. For someone to throw down the blanket statement that glass is in some way unacceptable is nonsense. Somebody pointed out the risk just in driving to the cache, and others mention paper-cuts etc.. You see, life is a risk. The debate comes up over and over, if it’s not the terrorist threat posed by those evil looking ammo cans, the constant failure of plastic food containers, then it’ll be something else. When I flew StarLifters there was a phrase we used when someone was going overboard on the safety issue: “You can ‘what-if’ any plane into the ground”. Yes, safety is important, especially when you’re strapping a 30 year old airplane to your @ss, because in reality the safest thing is to sit home with the lights out and cower behind the couch. You have to employ risk management techniques and determine the amount of acceptable risk the mission (geocaching) can have.

Geocaching works best by encouraging creativity. Ever find a “box-in-the-woods” cache and wonder what you ever saw in the game in the first place? Then you go out and find a fun and challenging cache and can’t wait to get back out. The geo-moms would like to regulate the entire game to the lowest moronic denominator, no risk and no fun. Even then someone will get hurt.

If the terror of broken glass in the forest frightens you so much, the game may not be for you. Play something safer like tiddlywinks or jacks. But please don’t drag the rest of us into your phobia.

Truer words have never been spoken; A little common sense goes a long way.

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

July 9, 2003

Now for the other approvers 2 pennyworth.

The one thing I have noticed is the "it doesn't say you can't use glass containers in the guidelines", likewise it doesn't say you can. Eckington made a decission and has stood by it.

Remember that they are 'GUIDELINES' and only that. The way some of the comments running in this thread are going, if it is in the 'Guidelines' then that is the way the approver should read them.. To me they will then cease to be guidelines and will become 'Rules'.

Personally I think the whole issue has been blown out of proportion.. but will admit it hasn't ended in a flame war..

I'm impressed

Moss the Boss... Sorta

20.7k · July 9, 2003

Perhaps this is just my MBA talking, but what does the approvers conscience have with whether a cache gets approved? The cache clearly fits the established guidelines. Therefore, the approver must approve it, in my opinion.

What next, an approver doesn't like an individual, so he refuses to approve any of that person's caches? An approver doesn't like offset caches, so he simply refuses to approve them.

If an approver feels that glass cache containers should not be approved, he should lobby to get a rule forbidding them enacted. Otherwise, either approve the cache or tell TPTB that he no longer wishes to be an approver.

I have been caching for a while now, and I bet I have found 20-30 caches in glass containers. I have yet to arrive on-site and find a container broken. Also, in addition to the glass-encased caches, I have seen many bottles laying about. None of these bottles were causing forest fires. There is a much greater chance of forest fires being caused by other natural or unnatural causes than by a glass container hidden under leaves and sticks.

July 9, 2003

Oh please can we let this rest now? We're just going to end up going round in circles. The cache I placed is more likely goona harm you on your way up or down the hill than it is by any damage to it's container when you find it. Someone quoted me as saying "it doesn't say you can't use glass.... blahh blahh" and then said it doesn't say you can. Given that picture on the main page of the boy with the glass jar it would be sensible to assume glass is just fine. I don't see anything saying you can't leave poison or you can't wire the thing to explode, what has happened to the good old sense of adventure? It's hard slog to my cache! A bit of an adventure. Some parts are very steep. This to me is what it's all about. I don't want to just drive somewhere, walk for two minutes along a paved path and find the thing, where's the fun in that, where's the challenge? That's the type of cache that makes you think you've hit "The Wall". Before I placed the dadgum thing I didn't know for sure what the terain was going to be but it was a fairly safe bet it wasn't going to be concrete. I want more caches like mine around the place. OK not now in a glass container, but hey, the spirit of my cache is surely what all this is about isn't it? I'm fairly new to all this but I do enjoy it. Don't take my fun away when I just got here. Can't we all just be friends and agree to disagreee or whatever? Please don't kill the spirit of caching with your silly what if stuff, it seriously is more of a hazard to go to my cache than it could ever cause anyone.

Glass Containers

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