Event Stacking

[+SW00P]

Recently I put an event in to be published on the same day and time of another event 22.5 miles away. I had to change the time because of event stacking rules. Today I see two events GCABJHM and GCAAQCD published on same day and almost at the same time. Distance between almost the same.

 

What am I missing about these rules? 

I expect to hear the reviewer didn't see the other event.

[RuideAlmeida]

Two different states, two different owners... not stacking for me.

[Keystone]

Your event conflicted with an official Side Event for a nearby Mega Event, subjecting it to a higher standard of scrutiny.  The two events you cited are not proximate to any Mega Event.

[+BAKO1313]

THE RULE: "This event is not allowed because it's too close to your previously published event in both time and distance. There needs to be at least 4 hours between events, or events separated by 1.0 mile." 

In my mind Event Stacking, an event IMMEDIATELY following a prior event at the same coordinates, makes environmental and economic sense. 

 

Less driving and the results and costs associated with that driving.

Possible cost of two sites. Participants time.  Two events at different coords at different times or two events at same coords in succession? JUST SAYIN'

 

[Keystone]

1 hour ago, BAKO1313 said:

an event IMMEDIATELY following a prior event at the same coordinates

 

So, one single event then?  That's what the event stacking guideline is getting at.

 

Also, what you state as "THE RULE" for event stacking is not, in fact, the rule.

[+GeoElmo6000]

I've seen plenty of mega event after parties, like the mega event ends at 5pm and the after party starts at 5pm, at the same location.  Not sure how that's not event stacking.

[+BAKO1313]

38 minutes ago, Keystone said:

 

So, one single event then?  That's what the event stacking guideline is getting at.

 

Also, what you state as "THE RULE" for event stacking is not, in fact, the rule.

 

[+BAKO1313]

An event from 10:00am to 10:30am, then an event from 10:30am to 11:00am at the same coordinates.

Like a WWFM, then a M&G.

THE RULE: was a direct quote from the reviewer note I received after the second event was submitted. I did correct a misspelled word in the note.

[+niraD]

1 hour ago, BAKO1313 said:

An event from 10:00am to 10:30am, then an event from 10:30am to 11:00am at the same coordinates.

Why not just have a single hour-long event from 10am to 11am? That would make just as much "environmental and economic sense", wouldn't it?

[+briansnat]

On 8/15/2023 at 1:36 PM, GeoElmo6000 said:

I've seen plenty of mega event after parties, like the mega event ends at 5pm and the after party starts at 5pm, at the same location.  Not sure how that's not event stacking.

It seems nearly anything goes as long as it's a mega. 

[+CheekyBrit]

On 8/15/2023 at 10:16 AM, BAKO1313 said:

There needs to be at least 4 hours between events, or events separated by 1.0 mile."

Different states will have regional guidelines they follow. I know in parts of Minnesota the distance has to be at least 20 miles, not just 1 mile.

[+bflentje]

I have to agree with the rule.. eh hem.. guideline.. even if I think is ridiculous. We're encouraged to run power trails but for some reason events are controlled with what I believe to be a draconian fist. Shrug.

[+VangeRover]

So if I arrange two meetings over 20 miles apart and with at least four hours between the two meetings, that will be allowed?🤔

[+Wacka]

In 2022 on the day theyGS tried to break the record for the # of caches found there were 3 events separated by approximately  10 miles or more and at 10AM, 2PM, and 6 PM. Almost all the  attendees were at all 3. And that day you had to drive through the area of the local NFL stadium while people  were heading to the preseason game between events 2 and 3. No problems and all within the rules.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Wacka

[+NLBokkie]

On 11/7/2023 at 7:52 PM, VangeRover said:

So if I arrange two meetings over 20 miles apart and with at least four hours between the two meetings, that will be allowed?🤔

Totally depends on where you want to organise those meetings and the "local" stacking rules. As they are all different over the world and mostly set by local reviewers, so do check with them. While these are still (local) "guidelines", I do see them implemented as "rules" as no one seems to be allowed to escape them, for whatever reason.

 

Gone are the days where we (accidentally) once had four events in the same city on the same day, all set for very different reasons by very different people. We all decided get to know each other and to join each other at all the respective events for fun. And surely, fun we had while there were no stacking rules to keep us from having that. Until this day I'm still not sure what these stacking rules are trying to prevent (or why) or what problem they are supposed to solve.

Edited November 13, 2023 by NLBokkie

[+JL_HSTRE]

1 hour ago, NLBokkie said:

Until this day I'm still not sure what these stacking rules are trying to prevent (or why) or what problem they are supposed to solve.

 

Primary to stop people from abusing events to pad their stats.

 

Secondarily to encourage events to spread out for the benefit of the community. 4 events in one area spread over 4 weekends is better for the community than 4 events in 1 weekend.

[+arisoft]

1 hour ago, JL_HSTRE said:

Primary to stop people from abusing events to pad their stats.

 

If this is true then power trails are also banned for the same reason.

 

I think that the intention is just to lighten the workload of voluntary reviewers. It may be frustrating to use time for publishing a bunch of actually private stacked events.

[Keystone]

9 minutes ago, arisoft said:

 

I think that the intention is just to lighten the workload of voluntary reviewers.

 

It would actually be less work if I didn't need to check for event stacking.  For the majority of event caches that meet the guidelines upon first submission, it's an extra manual step.

[+JL_HSTRE]

47 minutes ago, arisoft said:

 

If this is true then power trails are also banned for the same reason.

 

Physical geocaches have a very clear and simple 528 ft proximity limit.

 

Events have no automatic proximity limits for distance or time because it's a judgment call by the Reviewer. However, there are relatively few events compared to physical geocaches.

 

Events also have different guidelines from caches. They can be indoors in commercial locations, for example. 

[+arisoft]

13 hours ago, JL_HSTRE said:

Physical geocaches have a very clear and simple 528 ft proximity limit.

 

Does this stop people to pad their stats? No, it does not.

 

14 hours ago, Keystone said:

It would actually be less work if I didn't need to check for event stacking. 

 

I agree, but if events are used to pad stats without limit, the total workload would be greater.

Edited November 14, 2023 by arisoft

[+Isebar]

Identical "Target Group"?

 

"Frühstück am Fluss" is an Event which is held every second Wednesday on every month at 06.30 at the same location (Parking Spot at the river Nidda, North of Frankfurt, Germany) for more than ten years.

For the last 7 years I take responsibility to organize this event.

After submitting the March-Event for review, I was answered by the reviewer:

 

Event stacking
There is already at least one event in the vicinity of the event you have submitted that is aimed at an identical target group and takes place on the same day.

See:
- Breakfast break for pensioners😉#9 - GCB1J06 - 12/03/2025 10:00 - 10:30 - 10.15 km SW
- Lunch at the Airport Garden ✈️ - GCB1G0K - 12/03/2025 12:15 - 12:45 - 19.55 km SW

 

Besides the fact that in a densely occupied country like Germany 10 Km means more "distance" than in the US and that the distance of 25 Km specified in the guidelines is unrealistic for my country, I would like to know what is meant by "Target Group"?

 

Would it change the basis for permission, if I stipulated a limitation on attendees thus to form an unique "Target Group"?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Isebar

(Dedicated Old School GEOcacher)

 

[Keystone]

6 hours ago, Isebar said:

in a densely occupied country like Germany 10 Km means more "distance" than in the US and that the distance of 25 Km specified in the guidelines is unrealistic for my country

25 Km is a shorter distance than what's allowed in my review territory here in the US.  This demonstrates the good sense of allowing Reviewers to determine the "event stacking" limits on time and distance separation that work best for that Reviewers' region and geocaching community.  It makes sense to me that the Reviewers in Germany agreed upon a more liberal distance rule, based on what I know about cache density and the popularity of events in that country.

[+Isebar]

Power Trails vs Event Stacking

 

I still do not understand why PTs, which allow single persons, travelling alone, to collect 1.000 or more points for Traditional Caches over a weekend whithout any activity within the community, besides the fact to make themselves feel better or more important geocachers, are not banned.

 

On the other hand, events which focus on the community, which get people together under the banner of Geocaching,  are rejected if there are more than 4 per day (6 hours difference) within a distance of 25 km.

 

Isn't that against the underlying philosophy of Geocaching to get people together and create a community of people with respect to nature?

 

 

BTW,

my question from my first post, which perhaps could solve the problem,  has not been answered:

In the rejection of my event, it was stated that one reason for rejection was  "the same target group" like the other events.

How do I create a "target group", in order to make my event unique?

Any ideas are welcome.

Thanks in advance

 

Happy Caching  :)

 

Isebar

(Dedicated Old School GEOcacher)

[+arisoft]

8 hours ago, Isebar said:

How do I create a "target group", in order to make my event unique?

 

Make it a two-hour event and it will be more unique than a half-hour one.

[Keystone]

Assume that the following three events all took place on the same day:

- An event at the parking lot for a trailhead, followed by a group hike up a mountain

- An event at a neighborhood park with a playground, with the theme of "geocaching arts and crafts" for young geocachers to make swag items and creative containers

- An event at a craft beer brewery, where liberal sampling of the venue's products is expected

 

These three events are directed at three different target audiences.

[+thebruce0]

On 2/4/2025 at 5:18 AM, Isebar said:

I still do not understand why PTs, which allow single persons, travelling alone, to collect 1.000 or more points for Traditional Caches over a weekend whithout any activity within the community, besides the fact to make themselves feel better or more important geocachers, are not banned.

"Points"?

 

Powertrails: Physical containers with proximity limits and requiring regular perpetual ongoing periodic maintenance, caches to be found once each but remaining with indefinite life, etc

Events: No fundamental physical proximity issues, or property requirements (other than hosting allowance if indoors or permission for gathering on a property if needed), no quantity limit, archived once complete, etc

 

ie, If there were no rules for events, one could publish 100 events at the same time and place to 'earn' 100 smileys. The events would lose all meaning.  Rules for physical container placements are fundamentally different than rules for hosting non-physical gathering events. I would say it's the difference between physical containers in the real world and virtual location point gatherings which are themselves the determiner of the differing rules regarding their proximity (space and time) in publishing.

[+arisoft]

16 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

If there were no rules for events, one could publish 100 events at the same time and place to 'earn' 100 smileys.

 

This must be corrected. No points for hosting an event helps a lot.

[Keystone]

If I hide ten caches to add onto an existing power trail of 100 caches, the owner and finders of the 100 caches are not harmed.  It's just ten more caches to find.

 

If I host an event cache that's close in time and distance to an event cache that's already published, this harms both the host and the potential attendees of the existing event.  Some who were planning to attend the first event might decide to attend the new event instead.  People may arrive late to, or leave early from, the existing event so that they can also attend the new event.  This is one of several reasons underlying the "Event Stacking" guideline.

[+GeoElmo6000]

1 hour ago, arisoft said:

 

This must be corrected. No points for hosting an event helps a lot.

 

I'm not sure how this would help.  Attending an event gives the host the same experience as the attendees, except maybe the stress of the organizing, so maybe the host should get two smileys for being a host instead of one (sarcasm on that last point).  Hiding a cache and finding one are completely different experiences, whereas hosting and attending an event are virtually the same.

[+arisoft]

28 minutes ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

Hiding a cache and finding one are completely different experiences, whereas hosting and attending an event are virtually the same.

 

This is not true. Hiding a cache is mostly writing the cache description and you visit the cache coordinates before it is published.

How do you host an event without writing a description? I agree that you visit the event coordinates after it is published but this difference in time is negligible.

[+GeoElmo6000]

2 minutes ago, arisoft said:

 

This is not true. Hiding a cache is mostly writing the cache description and you visit the cache coordinates before it is published.

How do you host an event without writing a description? I agree that you visit the event coordinates after it is published but this difference in time is negligible.

 

Sorry if I wasn't being clear, I agree that writing an event page is similar to writing a cache page. 

 

But attending an event as a host is similar to attending an event as an attendee, so a host should get a smiley for attending.  

[+MartyBartfast]

3 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

ie, If there were no rules for events, one could publish 100 events at the same time and place to 'earn' 100 smileys. The events would lose all meaning.

Or:
 

Quote

ie, If there were no rules for AdLabs, one could publish 100 AdLabs at the same time and place to 'earn' 100 smileys. The AdLabs would lose all meaning.

But  one is permitted and one is not, whereas one has NEVER happened and one happens frequently...

 

[+arisoft]

3 hours ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

But attending an event as a host is similar to attending an event as an attendee, so a host should get a smiley for attending.  

 

I have never seen an event where the host acts like an attendee. Usually only the host has a guestbook and keeps the event organized. And the most important, host is there all the time unlike many attendees.

 

Many events are organized only because the host needs the find. By removing this attractor, the most useless events could be avoided.

[+niraD]

36 minutes ago, arisoft said:

Many events are organized only because the host needs the find. By removing this attractor, the most useless events could be avoided.

So are you suggesting that the event organizer should use one account for listing the event, and another account for posting an Attended log?

[+barefootjeff]

6 hours ago, arisoft said:

I have never seen an event where the host acts like an attendee. Usually only the host has a guestbook and keeps the event organized. And the most important, host is there all the time unlike many attendees.

 

Many of the events I've attended are low-key affairs, with the perhaps a dozen attendees just gathering around a picnic table in a park, or at a scenic lookout. Sometimes the host brings a logbook, sometimes not, and most of the attendees bring snacks to share around, so at the time of the event, the host just acts like any other attendee. Most hang around chatting well past the scheduled end time, too.

 

6 hours ago, arisoft said:

Many events are organized only because the host needs the find. By removing this attractor, the most useless events could be avoided.

 

I don't consider any of the events I've attended to be useless. Locally they're a rare treat, and for the ones further away I plan a day of caching around them.

[+CAVinoGal]

16 hours ago, arisoft said:

Many events are organized only because the host needs the find.

 

Maybe in your neck of the woods, but not here!  And the host is as much a participant in the event (here, typically at a restaurant or coffee shop, or park, and everyone chats, swaps trackables, eats/drinks, hangs out for awhile, and then we move on, usually geocaching to and from the event locale.  We enjoy each other's company and the "event" would likely be attended regardless if the smilie was awarded or not.  I choose to claim it, because yes, I attended and participated in the event I hosted.  You do you.

[+CCFsmile]

On 11/7/2023 at 1:52 PM, VangeRover said:

So if I arrange two meetings over 20 miles apart and with at least four hours between the two meetings, that will be allowed?🤔

 

You look to be in the UK, and I am glad the next quote and later an answer clarified... 20 miles apart in the UK is vastly different from 20 miles apart where I live in New England. 

 

On 2/2/2025 at 5:26 AM, Isebar said:

Besides the fact that in a densely occupied country like Germany 10 Km means more "distance" than in the US and that the distance of 25 Km specified in the guidelines is unrealistic for my country, ...

 

 

Right, as I said above. 

 

On 2/5/2025 at 12:47 PM, Keystone said:

If I host an event cache that's close in time and distance to an event cache that's already published, this harms both the host and the potential attendees of the existing event.  Some who were planning to attend the first event might decide to attend the new event instead.  People may arrive late to, or leave early from, the existing event so that they can also attend the new event.  This is one of several reasons underlying the "Event Stacking" guideline.

 

I have to totally disagree here. Most events I attend are a good hour away. I am far MORE likely to attend BOTH than to attend just one. In fact, if there are two or three events near each other but separated by a bit of time, then even better. I'd rather they be a half hour or hour apart at most. Four hours is too much time to hang around (especially if I have been cache active there, leaving me - winter especially - with not much to do in between, or nothing... we've been very cache active where we mostly attend events). Lately we have been skipping events we'd enjoy because there isn't another good reason to drive that far for a single short gathering. We have noticed that other attendees are very similar - they'll drive a ways for more than one event close in time to each other, but rarely for a single event. (Exception: if it's not winter and someone has set out a series of new caches, which becomes a second attraction of course.)

 

23 hours ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

But attending an event as a host is similar to attending an event as an attendee, so a host should get a smiley for attending.  

 

I thought they did... unless this has changed since I got a smiley for attending my own event in 2024.