A personal note to my friends in Geocaching ...

1k · August 11, 2003

I’ve come to a point in my participation with Geocaching that I feel it’s time to make a hard decision. I will be archiving all “Hawk” series caches in the next month or two. I will leave them open for this period of time so that my friends and people that are planning to visit some of them will have the opportunity to log a find before I take them out of service. This … very hard decision has been sparked by an unusual experience with the powers to be at Geocaching.com … and I’d like to explain why this is effecting the decision I feel I need to make. I apologize for the long winded statement that follows but I have made so many friends and had so much fun with geocaching … virtually from the start of this sport … that I felt I owed an explanation for my decision. THIS IS NOT A CALL TO ARMS or negative commentary on Geocaching … Please don’t take it as such. This is just intended as an explanation to my friends and associates in geocaching as to why I have made this decision. If I had planned to make an issue of it … I would have taken the matter directly to Jeremy … but I did not.

First of all … let me say Jeremy has done a heck of a job and in moving the sport forward … there are necessary changes that need to be made to keep the sport focused and growing. I don’t always agree with some of the decisions made … but after all it’s just a difference of opinion on my part. What has sparked the decision I have made is in the period of one day … two of my original caches … both in Bolivia were archived for the reason of “converting an existing cache into a virtual” … seems to now be a bad thing. This was done by a representative that has been a member since April of this year. When questioned I was told I could resubmit … with no explanation of how to do this. Do I create a whole new cache … and resubmit under a new name? I have no idea. But now … it’s a mute point.

The cache in question … Hawk 10 … took a lot of work and was only converted to a virtual when the physical cache box was misplaced by the person at the end of the multistage trip. The cache takes you from the heights of the mountains around La Paz to the lower regions of the Yungas … along what is considered by National Geographic Magazine as the “most dangerous road in the world”. Since it was still viable and has been visited with a lot of enthusiasm … and this has been done for over a year now.

My other cache Hawk 2 … was the first cache in Bolivia … so when it was stolen … I left the cache in place as a virtual … so if someone wanted to log the “First in Bolivia” cache … well they could … it’s been a virtual for over two years. So, I would really have liked to see it stay … but so be it. This I can see more than the archival of Hawk 10 but this is only my opinion.

It’s a bit irritating to have these caches kicked out by someone that has not been caching even as long as the cache has been in place. Was I notified that there may be a question about these caches … no. They were just archived. What was good a year ago … two years ago … is now deemed no good by someone who hasn’t been caching a half year yet … yes that irritates me personally. It’s not like I’ve created something recently that now no longer fits the guidelines or new standards … these are existing caches. The Hawk 2 cache is nearly as old as geocaching itself … I was in email contact with Jeremy personally while I set it up in La Paz. There are a lot of good memories from setting this one up.

Yes, maybe I’m being a bit petty … but that’s OK … I been working on a new cache event along the lines of the 100th cache events El Diablo and I have done in the past for this fall. It was to be a “Thank You” cache to all the friends I’ve met since 2001 and anyone else that wanted to participate … up to the first 40 to sign up. This was to be an all day cache covering 60 miles and a cook-out at the end. I’ve been working on individual clues to submit to all that signed up for it bringing everyone in from multiple directions. It’s been a lot of fun setting up. But, this has taken the wind out of my sails … so to speak. I’ve thought about it over night and well … I think it’s time to move on. If I can’t contribute positively to the sport … maybe it is time to move on.

Again … please don’t use this string to start a series of complaints against Geocaching … please only see it as it was intended … an explanation to my friends and associates in Geocaching as to why I am leaving. It’s a great sport … so keep enjoying it. And I appreciate the emails that I get periodically asking for assistance or advice … especially a year or so ago when I was laid off. It meant a lot to me … I owe all of you a lot. It’s been great fun.

Please stay in touch … you’re a great bunch!

----------------------------------------------------------------

Co-founder of the "NC/VA GEO-HOG ASSOCIATION"

... when you absolutely have to find it first!

August 11, 2003

Why would you leave a sport that you love so much? I can understand your frustration but it seems to me that this is more than just a weekend hobby for you, I think that you need to think about archiving all of your caches and just take a break for a few weeks to calm down.

Just my 2 cents..for what is is worth

August 11, 2003

I must concur with nickie. I can't see pulling out of the sport just because somebody jerked you around. Don't sink to their level. Also, don't punish other 'cachers b/c of the stupidity of one. I suggest you take up your complaint with Jeremy or the powers that be. I understand your frustration and sympathize with you. I just think you should take some time and reconsider.

With my 2 cents, you now have 4 cents!!! We may not be making any sense, but you are!!

August 11, 2003

Hawkeye, I can relate to some of your frustrations. I have had caches archived because of various reasons (No Log Book, Too close to R.R. Tracks, Virtual answer can be gotten from the internet, etc., etc.) even though there are caches out there that are in violation of the same rules! I grabbed a cache the other day that was less than 100 feet from a active R.R. Track!! I have been at three micros that had no log but mine where archived!!! I just decided to let it slide. I do love the game and I would like to see consistency in the approval process. Maybe an online checklist needs to be filled out before they can be posted, this way the criteria for everyone is the same. Maybe I'm talking without enough experience.......either way I would hate to see anyone leave the game of Geocaching for issues like yours. I hope you reconsider.

August 11, 2003

I am sorry you feel that way. I have enjoyed traveling to Greensboro from Raleigh to find your caches. They are some of the better ones i have found. Did you give any thought to leaving the caches, and transfering ownership to some one else? I bet Honeychile could help. Hate to see this happen, I didn't get to find all of yours yet..

Phil aka Fishingfools

Don't sweat the petty things, don't pet the sweaty things.

August 11, 2003

Okay dude! Really now! Let's just all get along, go have a beer and get over it! These approvers are VOLUNTEERS!!!! HAWK ... you are the reason that I am involved in GEOCACHING!!! You sent me numerous emails of explaination and help, not to mention a software mapping program to get me started. CLICHE CLICHE ... but ... he who angers you, controls you! Are you going to let some phantom user name approver control your life. Because let me tell you, Geocaching is a huge part of my life and has been ... thanks to you. That is craziness to pull your other caches. Who gives a rats hairy @$$ what one person thinks? There is surely more to this for you to take such drastic measures. Come on now!!!!! I will by you the beer!!!! I have really enjoyed your caches! Blow it off! Can I sign up for one of those first 40???

MissAngele

~To the world you may be one person,

but to one person you may be the world!~

August 11, 2003

I used to do US Government contracting. I got my butt (and wallet) kicked many times until I learned THEIR rules and started making them live by them. When we have some time, ask me about the Lt. J.G. and the $3150 price they gave me to paint something I offered to do for $850. (100% legal, moral, ethical, etc.)

Anyway..... back on subject:

There is a simple solution to the original problem. Let us direct the offending approver to the guidelines he is so zealously shoving down your throat. I quote:

"If a cache has been posted in the past and break any rules listed below, you are welcome to report it. However, we honor the posting of older caches that came in before the rule was issued."

"If your cache has been archived make sure to read the log to see why. If you want to dispute your archived cache, feel free to post a message in the forums to see what others think. If the majority believes it should be posted, your cache may be unarchived."

speaking specifically about virtual caches:

"Some earlier postings do not meet these clarified guidelines, although they will be allowed to stand as grandfathered."

Is this not clear? The approver violated the guidelines by unilaterally archiving your caches. I for one may have opportunity to visit Bolivia and would like some exciting caches to do - virtual or not!

Don't make me write a letter......

Best regards,

Jim

1k · August 12, 2003

OK ... First of all thanks for the "ton" of email I've received last night. Like I've always found ... there are a lot of nice folks in geocaching. I really and truly don't want to start a geobashing event. I didn't mention the approver's name and deleted his logs to prevent this from being a bashing of him/her. As the sport grows it needs guidelines and they have to adapt for the conditions of the day. I understand this and accept it. But it does seem that there needs to be better guidelines for "approver status". Again only a personal opinion.

Thanks Jim for the points ... I'm aware of them ... I have enough battles to deal with in doing my job ... just the thoughts of having to wage battle on my hobbies ... well, left a bad taste in my mouth. I've put a lot into this next cache I was working on ... with the complexities of bringing all the points together ... so this issue just knocked the wind out of it. Sort of took the "shine" off the idea.

I also didn't want to wind up posting the complaint and going through that mess. I just wanted to explain that there are no hard feelings ... a million thanks for all my friends out there and for their supporting my caches in the past ... and just explain instead of disappearing and yanking the caches in case someone was working on some of them.

And to answer the one question in most of the emails I've received ... yes I'll miss it and yes I'll probably regret it. But I think I'd do more damage to the activity fighting it than not.

HEY ... it's been fun ... shoot where else can you design a key ring and have it travel completely around the world ... and come home? El Diablo is still holding it hostage till I can get time to buy him a beer!

----------------------------------------------------------------

Co-founder of the "NC/VA GEO-HOG ASSOCIATION"

... when you absolutely have to find it first!

August 12, 2003

It seems like you have thought about it and still want to leave the hobby. That is your choice. Also it is your choice what to do with your active caches, but please consider putting them up for adoption.

August 12, 2003

Please stay in the sport, I have been hammered many times by the approvers, but in the end I could see where they were right. With that said, I have more caches not approved and archived by the admin than most cachers have hidden that’s what makes the sport so much fun for me.

I remember one time in the early days when one of my caches was not approved, and I ask why ,the admin told me , them I ask for the rules and was told “ you know there are no rules Joe”

Now we have rules and for the betterment and growth of the sport I think now that they are indeed needed., because there are cachers like me that always skirt the edge and boundaries and go overboard with some new things we want to try.

So stay in, and have fun…………………….. JOE

“ OK Administrators Did I Suck Up Enough, Please Approve My Next Cache Its Out There”

6.5k · August 12, 2003

I can't believe I did a 14 Triad cache marathon day with Fishingfools last month and didn't hit a single Hawk-Eye cache. I'll have to hurry back to find them soon now.

Hawk-eye has obviously given this a lot of thought, but I do not undrestand this comment at all:

quote:
And to answer the one question in most of the emails I've received ... yes I'll miss it and yes I'll probably regret it. But I think I'd do more damage to the activity fighting it than not.

Valuable constructive discussion is what is helping this sport mature. Please don't quit.

These changes in latitudes, changes in attitudes;

Nothing remains quite the same.

Through all of the islands and all of the highlands,

If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane

21.9k · August 12, 2003

A couple of approver notes (and no, I wasn't the approver that was involved here):

Don't conclude that an approver is a newbie just because of the date on his or her account page. My approver account was created in May when I was asked to take on this job, but I'd been geocaching for about a year before that.

The grandfather clause doesn't apply when you change a cache from one type to another. Go read the threads where people complain about how they have incorrectly been credited in their stats with having found a virtual (which they consider to be impure), when in fact they found the cache when it was first set out as a physical cache. A change to a virtual cache is really an entirely new cache and should have been submitted that way. It would've been judged by the standards for virtual caches (and likely failed, since you'd already proven that a physical cache could be placed at the location).

By responding to those who complain about caches being converted to virtuals, an approver has now angered a well-known and respected geocacher. Approvers often feel that we're darned if we do, and darned if we don't. As a fellow cacher I would encourage you to put the episode behind you, and keep playing this great game.

--------------------

Saving the day and approving all the caches... before bedtime!

1k · August 12, 2003

Look folks this is turning into something I didn't want it to. So let's don't beat it to death any more please.

To Keystone Approver ... no you're not the one .. and newbie or not ... these were converted to virtual before the guidelines changed ... easy enough to check ... so yes IMHO this did fall into the grandfather region. Hawk 2 could no longer take a physical cache because of the exposed position. Hawk 10 was working to get the physical cache back in place ... but hey, it's remote. No there have not been postings complaining about the caches and no ... I was given no advance warning ... they were just nuked. That's the point. On a side note ... I lived in Mifflinburg, PA for 12 years ... loved the area!

To Wimseyguy ... fighting over this or trying to post and get public opinion to change the decision ... which this whole string is starting to sound like ... is not good to the sport ... so in effect I would be damaging it by doing so ... IMHO ... and yes I have regrets already based on emails received from long time friends and associates but they understand.

I'm sorry folks ... I didn't intend for this posting to be more than an honest attempt to explain instead of just disappearing ... that's why I posted in the regional area and not up in one of the more general areas. I actually thought this would stir up less controversy and email than just systematically shutting down the caches.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Co-founder of the "NC/VA GEO-HOG ASSOCIATION"

... when you absolutely have to find it first!

August 12, 2003

Hey Hawk....Just send me the cords and I'll take him out!

The other co-founder of the Geo-Hogs.....Triffid

August 12, 2003

Keystone,

regarding your comments about cache conversions to virtuals.... I agree with you MOST of the time. In this case, we are not talking about a usual cache. We're talking about a well thought out, unique, elaborate cachine in which the container has almost nothing to do with completion of the challenege. Just making it to the end of the trek would be quite an honor and an accomplishment. Finding an ammo can full of trinkets would be the least exciting thing about THIS cache. My point is that these sort of things should be taken into consideration when a cache is archived for whatever reason. 99.9% of the time I would agree with you but in this case the cache should not have been archived. I just hate it when rules get too rigid in a game that doesn't need them to be so.

Jim

Get yo' mama to push the car!

3.9k · August 12, 2003

Hey mi amigo,

I just saw the post...what can I say...if it wasn't for you I would have no purpose in hiding caches..scrap the idea for the one I was working on, the one that would finally bring you to your knees.

However if you want to do a final...you know The Evil Horde is with you.

I know it isn't what you wanted or intended...but all of my caches 10 minutes from now will be archived until yours are unarchived.

El Diablo

Everything you do in life...will impact someone,for better or for worse.

http://www.geo-hikingstick.com

August 12, 2003

This was posted on the General Board:

"Hello. I am in my 7th month of caching and still LOVE IT!!!!. I want to do things the right way in what ever I do, even when I have problems. I have been reading Hawk Eyes post in the "Southern Board" concerning his caches being archived. I had a similar problem last month with a virtual on a college campus. I will speak for myself only, NOT Hawk Eye. There needs to be some consistency to the criteria by which the "approvers" approve caches. I really don't think I am alone in this opinion. I have talked with several other cachers and read post on this site that suggest the same. I understand that the "approvers" volunteer and commend them for this. But the fact remains that some of them allow certain types of caches while others do not. Cache A may be archived because of one reason and a cacher can find another cache, almost identical, that was allowed (NOT grandfathered in). Myself, I get sooooo pumped when I get a new cache idea and place one (virtual, or traditional). I spend time thinking about it, making sure it is appropriate. I can accept my cache being archived for legitimate reasons, hey no one but Christ was perfect. My cache was archived because the approver didn't find it "interesting", had never heard of the artist, and that there were lots of artwork around town. Isn't this the opinion of the approver? Is he the only one that will find this cache? What I think is interesting, could others not feel the same? I feel as Hawk Eye does, there needs to be some type of check sheet for caches. If it meets all the requirements, then it is approved. Opinions should NOT enter the decision making process because everyone has a different one. I am,by no means, leaving geocaching because of a few. I love it too much. I just want fairness in an unfair world. The rules should be as close to "black and white" as possible. To me finding caches is half the fun, the other half is hiding some so others may find. If artwork is not a good virtual cache then so be it, but be that way across the board. We found a cache 3 days before we tried to have this one approved (same 100 mile area) that was 4 words on a marble wall with water running over it?????? How is that more interesting than mine. INCONSISTENCY. Please let me know how I can help with this issue in anyway. I was always told "Don't whine about a problem unless you have a way to fix it!" It wasn't my idea but Hawk Eye's, create a more detailed form that addresses all the rules for those who wish to "place" a cache. If it meets all those requirments, it gets approved. I would say 90% of the cachers put lots of thought into a cache before they try to place it. Bursting one's bubble only takes the wind out of our sails. You can't blame people for getting discouraged.

Thanks a TON"

Hang in there Hawk Eye. I understand your point. But stay with it and work to find a solution. I liked your idea about a more detailed form for potential caches.

God bless you and your family,

Team Bubba Cache

August 12, 2003

Hawk-Eye, just this past weekend I was eyeing Hawk geocaches to see which ones I could go for (some were already started and still waiting in a holding pattern for updated status) and low and behold I noticed your Bolivia cache archive problem. I couldn't believe it. I saw no reason for someone to just pick them out for what appeared to be a random selection. Perhaps there is some mandate to go through ALL geocaches to keep them in line with current standards where possible, and where not, to make the call whether to leave them be or drop them altogether. I knew a very long time ago that the physical cache had been taken from that Bolivia cache, and knew after speaking with you that getting to the posted coordinates would still be a worthy geocaching adventure!

If you are 100% certain this is the thing you wish to do, well, you know I'll support your decision even if I don't necessarily like it (for selfish reasons of course).

If not for you, I would ever have nearly run over the famous Triffid (on foot no less) on a mtn bike trail with my mounain bike as he returned from a search for one of your geocaches. That means I would have possibly never even heard about this sport/hobby/pastime, meaning none of my siblings would have gone out with me to all those places we went, met the people we met, and did some of the crazy things we did.

I hope you change your mind. If not, hey man, can I still "just show up" at the posted coordinates and make like I'm looking for a geocache, and maybe even a handshake?

huggy_d1

2.7k · August 12, 2003

Sorry to hear how you feel and I have the same feelings. I've been raked over the coals over virtuals. But when I was in BUDS I learned the "Only Easy Day was Yesterday" And with that in mind I try and keep sanity.

I will still stick to my guns that a virtual doesn't hurt a traditional and they can stand alone. When the time and inspiration comes; then and only then can I come up with a good idea for a traditional utilizing some facts or figures from a virtual.

Take some time off, come back with a positive attitude that it was not you who was wrong. And grow from their stupid mistakes.

Tahosa - Dweller of Mountain Tops.

9.5k · August 12, 2003

Hey Hawkeye,

I don't know you from adam but I wonder if I can inject a suggestion?

Instead of just leaving and archiving your caches? why not take a temporary hiatus and put your caches up for adoption? Keep your account active for a while in case you decide to come back to it. You can always let your account expire at the end of the year if you truly decide you're not going to come back to it.

Cheers!

TL

August 13, 2003

Hey Hawk-eye,

I don't know you and will probably never have an opportunity to hunt your caches, but your posts in the forums were an important part of my learning about geocaching when I first started long ago. I hate to see this kind of thing happen, but certainly understand your frustration.

I greatly respect the thankless job of the approvers and wouldn't wish that job on anyone. Having said that, HOW some of them go about what they do is extremely heavy-handed and in many cases could be handled in a much better way. There may be a perfectly good explanation to what happened here, but it seems silly that a cache that has been in the field so long would unilaterally be archived without some communication with the cache owner first. This type of heavy-handed, unilateral action without communication is hurting geocaching, yet I don't get the sense that TPTB see it as a problem. Anybody see any way to get this message through more clearly to TPTB??

Again, Hawk-eye, hope you keep the door open for a possible change of mind. Even if you don't, thanks for contributing to my enjoyment of geocaching in ways you were never aware.

Alchemist2000

[This message was edited by alchemist2000 on August 13, 2003 at 04:20 AM.]

August 13, 2003

Hawk-eye,

What can I say?

I've met some wonderful, kind, helpful people through geocaching and I'd have to put you at the top of the list. You didn't know me from Adam, but without hesitation you offered your assistance and your friendship. Every now and then someone comes along who restores my faith in humanity; you have done that several times and I thank you.

Geocaching is so much more than finding trinkets in tupperware. It is a community of people. As that community grows disagreements are bound to happen.

The community has changed dramatically from the early days when you and I first spoke. Geocaching needs to find some of that "old" feeling (shine? heart?) again. I agree that TPTB have done an amazing job of promoting this sport, but so have you, my friend. In more ways than you know.

Don't give up. Fight the fight. Geocaching needs you.

geospotter

1k · August 13, 2003

Oh man this is getting tough. You guys are great ... but honestly I feel I've gotten more than I ever gave.

Let me see how gracefully I can end this string. Like I’ve said before I didn’t want this to be a sounding board against Geocaching and its policies.

I keep receiving emails from this string and let me say … I appreciate the kind words and the support. I’m truly humbled by the thank you notes. Trust me I gotten more out of it than I gave. But I appreciate the thoughts and good wishes … I really do.

Look, simple explanation … I’ll miss the sport. I’ve tried to adhere to each and every established guideline. Sure, I’ve pushed the envelope with the NC State Park system … but that’s a separate story. My caches … most of which should have qualified as grandfathered … all of them old farts like me … don’t seem to have any protection or at least consistency in protection. Each one is special to me at least and none involved less than several days work. It would have been nice to have received an email telling me there was a problem and giving me a chance to fix it. You know, instead of just carrying out the execution and posting the obituary.

So, the conclusion I’ve made is … I’d rather just close them all down with the fun and memories I have instead of having the memory tarnished by what has just happened to two caches I was very proud of. Hawk 10, and the adventures in placing it on the Yungas Road … and Hawk 2 … the very first cache … and only cache for a while … in Bolivia.

The way I see it … caches … virtual, traditional and the other varieties recently identified by their own category … if they have a following and people enjoy hunting them … are of equal value and that’s great! I don’t personally like location-less caches … don’t care to hunt them … but I wouldn’t condemn them … I have several close friends that enjoy them. But down the road … could they be next? See my point. I have a cache … Hawk 14 that I worked on for several weeks … those that have hunted it seem to love it. But it’s different than a traditional or even a traditional multi-stage cache. Maybe due to the nature of it … it will fall under some new guideline and without a grandfather clause to protect it … it will disappear one weekend as well. Will approved virtual caches I’ve placed, fall under a new ruling somewhere in the future and vanish as well? There’s just no consistency that I can personally count on. That’s OK too … it’s not my website, I’m not managing the operation, it’s not my idea … it’s only my choice on when and if I participate.

Will I continue to cache? I don’t know … I don’t have to log a cache to enjoy the activity. I can still look up a cache and check it out … now and then. So, yeah you might see the Hawk-eye logo in a log now and then. To answer another question that keeps getting asked in emails … I might just go ahead with the cache event I was working on … however, now maybe sometime this spring. If anyone is interested email me at LastCache@triad.rr.com and if there is any interest in one last Hawk-eye event … complete with the typical Hawk-eye/El Diablo madness … I’ll finish it up for spring. Warning: it will involve land transportation (vehicle and foot), GPSr’s, binoculars, map and compass, a lot of things that aren’t what they appear to be and cell phones …. Oh, and burgers and dogs! I’ll need to limit the number … due to the nature of this hunt. It will take all day to complete and there will be a nice first finder’s prize. This won’t be a Geocaching.com event, so there won’t be a log or credit involve … just the hunt and some fun.

Again thanks for the words of support and thanks … and I’ll be seeing a lot of you around anyway. If there’s anything I can ever do for anyone … let me know! I’ll be happy to help where I can.

Anyone that is hunting any of my remaining caches … they will start going down at the end of September of this year. If you need longer on any of them … email me through my profile and I’ll make sure not to take it down until you finish. The caches and I will be officially gone by February 2004.

Again folks thanks and let’s end this string … it’s served its purpose.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Co-founder of the "NC/VA GEO-HOG ASSOCIATION"

... when you absolutely have to find it first!

3.5k · August 13, 2003

Yea! I get to Markwell someone!

Please check this thread, especially Renegade Knight's "I Quit" form.

3.9k · August 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by 9Key:
Yea! I get to Markwell someone!

Please check http://ubbx.Groundspeak.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=5726007311&f=4016058331&m=67760077&r=15860077, especially Renegade Knight's "I Quit" form.

http://www.texasgeocaching.com

I hate to burst your bubble...but I don't think that is a Markwell. I may be wrong...but I don't think so.

El Diablo

Everything you do in life...will impact someone,for better or for worse.

http://www.geo-hikingstick.com

1.5k · August 13, 2003

Wow! I was actually believing this stuff. Then someone told me people sometimes stretch the truth in the forums. If this is real, then I quit ! Oh, wait a minute... I have over 900 caches and I wanted to have a 1000 cache party first, before I quit... is that ok? or would that seem petty?

Ventura Kid and Spider Dude

Ever stop to think, and forget to start again?

August 13, 2003

logged Hawk 7 today, probably the last one to do so. Left Hawk-eye a Fishingfools bagtag for when he pulls the cache. Tried Hell is just ahead, spent 45 minutes wallowing in swamp, only to realized I was on wrong side of the creek. Found right trailhead, but was getting dark. Glad I came home since I see it has already been archived. Think I will try some coastal caches for awhile, triad is getting me down.

Fishingfools

Don't sweat the petty things, don't pet the sweaty things.

August 13, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by El Diablo:
I know it isn't what you wanted or intended...but all of my caches 10 minutes from now will be archived until yours are unarchived.

El Diablo

9 caches?? Yea, that'll show 'em. Guess you'll be pulling your hiking stick ad also?

You're cutting off your nose to spite your face. Geocaching.com could give a rat's a$$ about your cache's but alot of current & future cacher's will. If you're as dedicated to the sport as you claim, I can't understand how you can deprive these folks.

And Hawk, one approver changed your whole attitude about this sport? What if you had had a bad experience with a woman in your younger years & you gave up on them too...sure would have been a shame to have missed out on the wife & kids you have now.

Think about it

1.1k · August 14, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by fishingfools:
Think I will try some coastal caches for awhile, triad is getting me down.

Fishingfools

Don't give up on Triad caching...I've been caching here for months while I've been in the area on business, and for the most part Triad caches and cachers are great! Sure, there's an occasional "dud" cache, but that's going to be true of any area. I think the trails/greenways and how cachers here have been exploiting them has been top-notch.

This is also why I share the others' sentiments on this thread that I'm sad to see Hawk hangin' 'em up just because of one approver's misjudgment. The same thing has happened to me back home in Biloxi...my local approver did a unilateral archive on one of my caches that I converted from physical to virtual after its container was plundered/removed twice. I'm p*ssed about it, but I'm not going to let it stop me from my other enjoyments of caching.

-Dave R., frequent Triad visitor/cacher

August 14, 2003

quote:
my local approver did a unilateral archive on one of my caches that I converted from physical to virtual after its container was plundered/removed twice. I'm p*ssed about it, but I'm not going to let it stop me from my other enjoyments of caching.

I had a similar "plunder" situation with this cache of mine. In fact the first time it was plundered dog sh*t was left in the container. I could have made a virtual cache of the nuclear reactor building the cache was on but instead moved it to a safer area - twice. In the course of doing so discovered much more of the history of this cold war relic.

If you have to abandon the idea of a physical cache please resubmit it as a virtual. You can cite the fact that a physical is unsustainable there as your rationale. If it meets the other criteria for a virtual it might well be posted, but I haven't met a virtual yet that couldn't have been the initial point of a multicache....

That way people view your special spot and get to find a physical cache as well.

The whole idea of "converting" a physical to a virtual can be easily abused to circumvent the approval process. That is why approvers will archive a cache if they see their name on the base of it but know they didn't approve it. Ask yourself what you'd do if you saw you'd "approved" something you did not in fact approve - regardless of whether it's a geocache, your kid's report card, or anything else you'd be held responsible for.

erik - geocaching.com admin

August 14, 2003

Hawkeye has requested this thread closed. If you would like to discuss the issues involved, feel free to start a new thread.

hydee

I work for the frog

A personal note to my friends in Geocaching ...

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